- I like EQ2's just because how interactive it was and how your player could take damage during the process.
- I liked Fallen Earth's because of the real time aspect and how one character could craft armor and vehicles/mounts without having to specialize.
- I like SWG's crafting because the same item made by two different players could have two different stats. This helped create brand loyalty and set apart good crafters from bad ones. Of course the hologrind killed that after I saw my favorite weapon and armor smiths dancing in the cantinas to grind out their entertainer professions instead of making great gear.
Many people say EQ2 has good crafting. Even though I'm an avid EQ2 player and 10 year vet of the game, i don't agree. I think EQ2 crafting is as bad as most games.
[...]
In EQ2, there is a part of crafting called "experimentation" - this actually presents a challenge and many people fail (and permanently lose very expensive components by failing) - this is the sort of thing that separates good crafters from bad. This is what we need more of. And of course the making of unique stuff that i mentioned earlier.
The only time raiders in EQII cared about crafting is hiring housing designers for their halls or making their spells and enchants. The gulf between raider and crafter in that game is notorious. When the SOE dev mentioned that house deeds could drop as raid loot, the raider response was, "huh?". It's that wide and deep. -_-
That's was probably true for a while, but that's changed for a few years now. These days crafters make several of the best items in the game and raiders very much need those crafters. Crafters also make all the consummables - for ALL levels of play - solo, group and raid.
My point about EQ2 crafting is that no matter how good you are, any noob crafter of the same level can make the exact same item as you, so long as they get the recipe. There is no skill involved in anything. That's what makes it bad. You could have been crafting for 10 years and i can just spend a day levelling a crafter and be as good as you, making the same quality item. That's stupid imo. The only thing that is somewhat different is experimentation. I hope they do more with experimentation in the future, really open it up and make it possible for good crafters to tweak all kinds of items. It would be awesome if they allowed crafters to experiment on dropped gear too.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Many people say EQ2 has good crafting. Even though I'm an avid EQ2 player and 10 year vet of the game, i don't agree. I think EQ2 crafting is as bad as most games.
[...]
In EQ2, there is a part of crafting called "experimentation" - this actually presents a challenge and many people fail (and permanently lose very expensive components by failing) - this is the sort of thing that separates good crafters from bad. This is what we need more of. And of course the making of unique stuff that i mentioned earlier.
The only time raiders in EQII cared about crafting is hiring housing designers for their halls or making their spells and enchants. The gulf between raider and crafter in that game is notorious. When the SOE dev mentioned that house deeds could drop as raid loot, the raider response was, "huh?". It's that wide and deep. -_-
That's was probably true for a while, but that's changed for a few years now. These days crafters make several of the best items in the game and raiders very much need those crafters. Crafters also make all the consummables - for ALL levels of play - solo, group and raid.
My point about EQ2 crafting is that no matter how good you are, any noob crafter of the same level can make the exact same item as you, so long as they get the recipe. There is no skill involved in anything. That's what makes it bad. You could have been crafting for 10 years and i can just spend a day levelling a crafter and be as good as you, making the same quality item. That's stupid imo. The only thing that is somewhat different is experimentation. I hope they do more with experimentation in the future, really open it up and make it possible for good crafters to tweak all kinds of items. It would be awesome if they allowed crafters to experiment on dropped gear too.
That has always been there. Potions especially, as a raider in EQII has to carry 100 stacks of each; plus the totems; and stacks of repair kits (which only repair your gear upto 50%, and in EQII there's penalty in stats when your gear isn't repaired to 100%).
But EQII was based on "raiders rule" and "one guild rules the whole damn server". Which, like in EvE, causes tomfoolery and dev interference (e.g., the Aeralik fiasco) that is v-e-r-y anti-crafting.
Uniqueness in crafting is often sought, but the problem is monopolies it can cause. If only 2 on your realm can make 1 type of special stat sword, what happens if both are on holiday for 2 weeks? I'm all for unique ways for crafters to make epic items, but shortages based on truly unique recipes to that extent would limit play for 99% of others (especially for min/maxers). Uniqueness is naming items, terrific. Uniqueness on rarity itself...play WoW with it's truly messed up RNG system? Heck, no!
Seriously, every poster is just going to say their favorite/least favorite game.
Over time it will be every MMO as best and worst.
Look at the worst MMO thread - every single game is in there.
So anyway - lets just get to it right?
Best - SWG
Worst - Neverwinter
I think that's being a little demeaning tbh ,vanguard isn't my favourite game tho it was better than a lot of todays rubbish .I just thought that the crafting stood out ,also like to add that I like swtor but the crafting is well to put it bluntly rubbish as well .
Seriously, every poster is just going to say their favorite/least favorite game.
Over time it will be every MMO as best and worst.
Look at the worst MMO thread - every single game is in there.
So anyway - lets just get to it right?
Best - SWG
Worst - Neverwinter
Agreed.
Now, if there was a catagory for the biggest waste of an awesome crafting system. (Or the crafting system that coulda/shoulda but didn't)
Then my vote goes to FF14:ARR
Forced grouped games with a focus on raiding will never allow crafting to make the best gear, as the carrot won't be there for the raiders to chase (or have the show off value...."ME IS GREAT, SEE ME GEAR, Nublet!!!").
This is how and why crafting in the EQ lineage games suck so badly, as they try to appease a group of gamers who won't be pleased unless they control everything, literally.
We're seeing it play out in WoW commentaries with the blame game on LFR. Which was before that LFG. As long as access is allowed and control removed from the 10% that only pay 10% for their keep, they will whine forever that others are so "entitled" (when in truth the real entitled have been the raiders trying to control 90% of how the gaming money is spent on THEIR past times).
Only 10% play at that level, and they have no business dictating content to the 90%. That's PURE entitlement BS.
Crafting to be successful and fulfilling has to have a purpose in the game from the ground up, and crafting designers aren't a footnote in the game's design. It's the most fulfilling past time in MMOs, as anyone can engage in it be it 30mins a day or 15hrs, and without the stupidness of grouping and what it attracts (i.e., trolls and bottomfeeders).
For me, to be fun, a good crafting system has to offer following features:
- lots of recipes
- being able to take items you don't need apart
- taking lots of time for complicated items
- being able to improve items
- most importantly: crafted items should be useful. I hate it when the average quest reward is better than the average crafting reward of the same level. What's the point then of crafting?
- discovering new recipes, not seeing all at once from the beginning
You heard it here first folks, Hellgate: London had the best crafting,
(It didn't. It really didn't. Not picking on Maji, just 'checkoff feature' lists)
I don't have any games I truly hate the crafting, but it would go the ones where you hit a button with the materials and you get an instant crafted item. Otherwise, no thought went into crafting the item.
Why? Simply because the gathering was picking up all the things in the wasteland... searching trash piles, junk metal, etc. It played well in the lore of the game as it was like a Fallout MMO.
The crafting was extremely deep too, so many recipes that linked together. Try making a gun... then you need to make the barrel, the stock, the chamber for the bullets... they are all need gun crafting skills. Want to add a scope... that needs science skills. Oh and you craft the bullets too!
Also take making a vehicle. You have to make the chassis, the tyres, the engine, the fuel, etc. Man did it take effort to gather and craft, but that is what made it fun in the lore... as it takes time. You really did feel like mad max!
Finally 95% of the items in the game were crafted by players. It's a crafting heaven.
Worst: Guild Wars 2.
Why? Well I had an alt engineer at level 10, who levelled to level 38 by just cooking. Why should making food make me more experienced as an engineer... WTF??? Crafting actually levelled your character... what a crappy thought overlooked by the dev team.
Lesson to learn... let your experience in crafting effect the craft you are doing, not the class of the character. Like this ever needed teaching!
gw2 crafting is pathetic. Spend real life years gathering ancient timber or buy it through tp. imo buying it defeats the purpose of making items your self!
IMO Star Wars Galaxies was and probably will be the best crafting system ever created. What sets it apart from crafting in other MMO's was the resource quality - which determined the quality and stats of the finished product. It would literally take months for a quality steel etc to spawn and only those players that stuck with the game over the long haul could create the best items.
The beastmaster system ALONE - genetically creating and mutating pets was a crafting system all by itself. You could create and own your own houses - place NPC's in your home to sell your goods - creating your own store with the ability to decorate with the items you were selling and more.
Harvesting was done with harvesters freeing the player to spend time doing other things besides running around mining and gathering and it was really fun surveying for resources and finding places to set up the harvesters.
There were so many things you could do crafting in SWG that combat was secondary.
The Repopulation seems to be the only MMO that MIGHT even come close to the greatness of SWG - I'm eagerly awaiting the beta testing.
The worst crafting system? Any mmo that makes crafting cookie cutter and mindless - which is most of them.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
But EQII was based on "raiders rule" and "one guild rules the whole damn server".
Uhm... like 95% of EQ2 content is geared to non-raiders. We'll just have to disagree on this. If anything it's "decorators rule" in EQ2, i think decorators get more out of the game than anyone else... well maybe soloers too, since like 99% of the game's quests are now solo. Raiders got two zones in the last expac, zero quests. Soloers got 8 zones and all the quests. Of coruse really, the biggest benefit should be for participating in ALL content types, not just limiting yourself to one.
Uniqueness in crafting is often sought, but the problem is monopolies it can cause. If only 2 on your realm can make 1 type of special stat sword, what happens if both are on holiday for 2 weeks? I'm all for unique ways for crafters to make epic items, but shortages based on truly unique recipes to that extent would limit play for 99% of others (especially for min/maxers). Uniqueness is naming items, terrific. Uniqueness on rarity itself...play WoW with it's truly messed up RNG system? Heck, no!
Limiting recipe availability is NOT the way i would want to create item uniqueness - that's not a good system. Skill in creation is the way to go. Imagine the toughest monster in a game - whoever the end boss is of whatever MMO you currently play. anyone CAN kill him, but only those with enough skill do. THat's how it should be with crafting. If you're good, you make the item, if you suck, you fail at making it. And the harder the item, the harder to make. Build that on top of having a wide variety and quality levels of materials (like SWG or Firefall) and you got the perfect crafting system.
THis would also solve the balance problem for developers in terms of how to allow crafters to make more powerful items than adventurers. In most games, it takes a solid group (or multiple groups) of people playing at top skill for some time in order to get a good item from a monster. At the same, in those same games, a retarded monkey can drag a bunch of items to a to a forge, click "combine" and poop out a piece of crafted gear while also watching the Bachelor and eating a sandwich. The lack of required effort/skill makes it difficult for developers to make the end result of such crafting anything other than crap. Now if you change that to where actual skill is required and BAM! - you can have crafters make same quality gear as you get from adventuring.
Give me 20 crafters working together for a time to overcome a difficult skill-challenge to create 1 item and that's an item worthy of being as good as anythign that drops from mobs.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Sad thing is that Horizons/Istaria itself is so bad and few people have played it so never got a chance to take part in some amazing crafting.
Second best I would say was Vanguard.
Worst? SWTOR with Neverwinter damn close. Nothing worse than having to send companions out to do your crafting for you and take up massive amounts of time to remove the "grind" of standing there for 10 seconds to craft an item............
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
IMO Star Wars Galaxies was and probably will be the best crafting system ever created. What sets it apart from crafting in other MMO's was the resource quality - which determined the quality and stats of the finished product.
FYI Asherons Call had resource quality when Raph Koster was still designing UO.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Seriously, every poster is just going to say their favorite/least favorite game.
Over time it will be every MMO as best and worst.
Look at the worst MMO thread - every single game is in there.
So anyway - lets just get to it right?
Best - SWG
Worst - Neverwinter
Agreed.
Now, if there was a catagory for the biggest waste of an awesome crafting system. (Or the crafting system that coulda/shoulda but didn't)
Then my vote goes to FF14:ARR
Forced grouped games with a focus on raiding will never allow crafting to make the best gear, as the carrot won't be there for the raiders to chase (or have the show off value...."ME IS GREAT, SEE ME GEAR, Nublet!!!").
This is how and why crafting in the EQ lineage games suck so badly, as they try to appease a group of gamers who won't be pleased unless they control everything, literally.
We're seeing it play out in WoW commentaries with the blame game on LFR. Which was before that LFG. As long as access is allowed and control removed from the 10% that only pay 10% for their keep, they will whine forever that others are so "entitled" (when in truth the real entitled have been the raiders trying to control 90% of how the gaming money is spent on THEIR past times).
Only 10% play at that level, and they have no business dictating content to the 90%. That's PURE entitlement BS.
Crafting to be successful and fulfilling has to have a purpose in the game from the ground up, and crafting designers aren't a footnote in the game's design. It's the most fulfilling past time in MMOs, as anyone can engage in it be it 30mins a day or 15hrs, and without the stupidness of grouping and what it attracts (i.e., trolls and bottomfeeders).
I don't disagree at all.
I was initially attracted to FF14 because of it's crafting. Until I got to endgame and realized FF14 is doing exactly what WoW is doing with crafting. It's good enough to carry you to the doorstep of raiding, but it won't bring you through it. If that's the case, why on earth would I play FF14 for it's raiding? Its raiding doesn't hold a candle to WoW's. So I went back to WoW.
Comments
- I like EQ2's just because how interactive it was and how your player could take damage during the process.
- I liked Fallen Earth's because of the real time aspect and how one character could craft armor and vehicles/mounts without having to specialize.
- I like SWG's crafting because the same item made by two different players could have two different stats. This helped create brand loyalty and set apart good crafters from bad ones. Of course the hologrind killed that after I saw my favorite weapon and armor smiths dancing in the cantinas to grind out their entertainer professions instead of making great gear.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
That's was probably true for a while, but that's changed for a few years now. These days crafters make several of the best items in the game and raiders very much need those crafters. Crafters also make all the consummables - for ALL levels of play - solo, group and raid.
My point about EQ2 crafting is that no matter how good you are, any noob crafter of the same level can make the exact same item as you, so long as they get the recipe. There is no skill involved in anything. That's what makes it bad. You could have been crafting for 10 years and i can just spend a day levelling a crafter and be as good as you, making the same quality item. That's stupid imo. The only thing that is somewhat different is experimentation. I hope they do more with experimentation in the future, really open it up and make it possible for good crafters to tweak all kinds of items. It would be awesome if they allowed crafters to experiment on dropped gear too.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
That has always been there. Potions especially, as a raider in EQII has to carry 100 stacks of each; plus the totems; and stacks of repair kits (which only repair your gear upto 50%, and in EQII there's penalty in stats when your gear isn't repaired to 100%).
But EQII was based on "raiders rule" and "one guild rules the whole damn server". Which, like in EvE, causes tomfoolery and dev interference (e.g., the Aeralik fiasco) that is v-e-r-y anti-crafting.
Uniqueness in crafting is often sought, but the problem is monopolies it can cause. If only 2 on your realm can make 1 type of special stat sword, what happens if both are on holiday for 2 weeks? I'm all for unique ways for crafters to make epic items, but shortages based on truly unique recipes to that extent would limit play for 99% of others (especially for min/maxers). Uniqueness is naming items, terrific. Uniqueness on rarity itself...play WoW with it's truly messed up RNG system? Heck, no!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I love the crafting system in Mortal Online. It allows a lot of player control and experimentation, and is important to the game world.
Though I really enjoy the rest of the game, the crafting in STO is very limited.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I think that's being a little demeaning tbh ,vanguard isn't my favourite game tho it was better than a lot of todays rubbish .I just thought that the crafting stood out ,also like to add that I like swtor but the crafting is well to put it bluntly rubbish as well .
Ahnog
Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.
Agreed.
Now, if there was a catagory for the biggest waste of an awesome crafting system. (Or the crafting system that coulda/shoulda but didn't)
Then my vote goes to FF14:ARR
Forced grouped games with a focus on raiding will never allow crafting to make the best gear, as the carrot won't be there for the raiders to chase (or have the show off value...."ME IS GREAT, SEE ME GEAR, Nublet!!!").
This is how and why crafting in the EQ lineage games suck so badly, as they try to appease a group of gamers who won't be pleased unless they control everything, literally.
We're seeing it play out in WoW commentaries with the blame game on LFR. Which was before that LFG. As long as access is allowed and control removed from the 10% that only pay 10% for their keep, they will whine forever that others are so "entitled" (when in truth the real entitled have been the raiders trying to control 90% of how the gaming money is spent on THEIR past times).
Only 10% play at that level, and they have no business dictating content to the 90%. That's PURE entitlement BS.
Crafting to be successful and fulfilling has to have a purpose in the game from the ground up, and crafting designers aren't a footnote in the game's design. It's the most fulfilling past time in MMOs, as anyone can engage in it be it 30mins a day or 15hrs, and without the stupidness of grouping and what it attracts (i.e., trolls and bottomfeeders).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
You heard it here first folks, Hellgate: London had the best crafting,
(It didn't. It really didn't. Not picking on Maji, just 'checkoff feature' lists)
Fallen Earth so far has the best crafting I have ever seen.
You pretty much have to do it if you want the best items in the game.
Best are Star Wars Galaxies, EQ2 and Vanguard.
I don't have any games I truly hate the crafting, but it would go the ones where you hit a button with the materials and you get an instant crafted item. Otherwise, no thought went into crafting the item.
SWG.
Resource gathering and crafting were second to none in SWG.
Worst... a few to choose from but SWTOR. I've been a armstech since launch and never made an item of use
Best : Istaria
Worst: none really
The best crafting in a game...
Remember crafting needs gathering too.
Best: Fallen Earth.
Why? Simply because the gathering was picking up all the things in the wasteland... searching trash piles, junk metal, etc. It played well in the lore of the game as it was like a Fallout MMO.
The crafting was extremely deep too, so many recipes that linked together. Try making a gun... then you need to make the barrel, the stock, the chamber for the bullets... they are all need gun crafting skills. Want to add a scope... that needs science skills. Oh and you craft the bullets too!
Also take making a vehicle. You have to make the chassis, the tyres, the engine, the fuel, etc. Man did it take effort to gather and craft, but that is what made it fun in the lore... as it takes time. You really did feel like mad max!
Finally 95% of the items in the game were crafted by players. It's a crafting heaven.
Worst: Guild Wars 2.
Why? Well I had an alt engineer at level 10, who levelled to level 38 by just cooking. Why should making food make me more experienced as an engineer... WTF??? Crafting actually levelled your character... what a crappy thought overlooked by the dev team.
Lesson to learn... let your experience in crafting effect the craft you are doing, not the class of the character. Like this ever needed teaching!
best: a tale in the desert
worst: just about everything else
IMO Star Wars Galaxies was and probably will be the best crafting system ever created. What sets it apart from crafting in other MMO's was the resource quality - which determined the quality and stats of the finished product. It would literally take months for a quality steel etc to spawn and only those players that stuck with the game over the long haul could create the best items.
The beastmaster system ALONE - genetically creating and mutating pets was a crafting system all by itself. You could create and own your own houses - place NPC's in your home to sell your goods - creating your own store with the ability to decorate with the items you were selling and more.
Harvesting was done with harvesters freeing the player to spend time doing other things besides running around mining and gathering and it was really fun surveying for resources and finding places to set up the harvesters.
There were so many things you could do crafting in SWG that combat was secondary.
The Repopulation seems to be the only MMO that MIGHT even come close to the greatness of SWG - I'm eagerly awaiting the beta testing.
The worst crafting system? Any mmo that makes crafting cookie cutter and mindless - which is most of them.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Uhm... like 95% of EQ2 content is geared to non-raiders. We'll just have to disagree on this. If anything it's "decorators rule" in EQ2, i think decorators get more out of the game than anyone else... well maybe soloers too, since like 99% of the game's quests are now solo. Raiders got two zones in the last expac, zero quests. Soloers got 8 zones and all the quests. Of coruse really, the biggest benefit should be for participating in ALL content types, not just limiting yourself to one.
Limiting recipe availability is NOT the way i would want to create item uniqueness - that's not a good system. Skill in creation is the way to go. Imagine the toughest monster in a game - whoever the end boss is of whatever MMO you currently play. anyone CAN kill him, but only those with enough skill do. THat's how it should be with crafting. If you're good, you make the item, if you suck, you fail at making it. And the harder the item, the harder to make. Build that on top of having a wide variety and quality levels of materials (like SWG or Firefall) and you got the perfect crafting system.
THis would also solve the balance problem for developers in terms of how to allow crafters to make more powerful items than adventurers. In most games, it takes a solid group (or multiple groups) of people playing at top skill for some time in order to get a good item from a monster. At the same, in those same games, a retarded monkey can drag a bunch of items to a to a forge, click "combine" and poop out a piece of crafted gear while also watching the Bachelor and eating a sandwich. The lack of required effort/skill makes it difficult for developers to make the end result of such crafting anything other than crap. Now if you change that to where actual skill is required and BAM! - you can have crafters make same quality gear as you get from adventuring.
Give me 20 crafters working together for a time to overcome a difficult skill-challenge to create 1 item and that's an item worthy of being as good as anythign that drops from mobs.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
This.
Sad thing is that Horizons/Istaria itself is so bad and few people have played it so never got a chance to take part in some amazing crafting.
Second best I would say was Vanguard.
Worst? SWTOR with Neverwinter damn close. Nothing worse than having to send companions out to do your crafting for you and take up massive amounts of time to remove the "grind" of standing there for 10 seconds to craft an item............
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
FYI Asherons Call had resource quality when Raph Koster was still designing UO.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
To me was Vanguard but I also enjoy the Crafting In Eternal Lands and in a Game called Wish(your old if you recall this)
The worst well what i'm seeing from the Wildstar betas tbh nothing exciting about it
I don't disagree at all.
I was initially attracted to FF14 because of it's crafting. Until I got to endgame and realized FF14 is doing exactly what WoW is doing with crafting. It's good enough to carry you to the doorstep of raiding, but it won't bring you through it. If that's the case, why on earth would I play FF14 for it's raiding? Its raiding doesn't hold a candle to WoW's. So I went back to WoW.
I guess I am feeling really old, I was in the Alpha test for Wish lol.