I just watched (for the first time) the EQN Panel on Classes, and I was sorely disappointed when I saw that they were making it so people can basically turn your character into an "all class hybrid" eventually with enough leveling and customization. This is bascially making EQN a mix of Guild Wars 2 and RIFT. Are you kidding?
If when I start an MMO and pick my first class, I pick a Cleric because clearly I am interested in being a HEALER and I enjoy healing, rezzing, and buffing players. Sure maybe I can customize that healer to being more of an "offensive healer" where the heals aren't as good but I get some offensive spells, but still I am a HEALER.
If I wanted that healer to be a stealthy rogue that can hide in shadows, or be a warrior that can leap 50 feet in the air and do a huge whirlwind attack, THEN I WOULD HAVE PICKED THOSE GODDAMN CLASSES FROM THE START.
I just don't understand how these devs work these days.
Is this what the MMO community really wants? They don't want "dedicated healers" or "dedicated wizards" anymore? They want their class to be able to do everything?
This really pisses me off.
I 100% agree with everything you said, Im old school , If I wanted to play a different class I would make a new character what players call an ALT .
I guess Im the sort of D&D type player from way back baldurs gate etc .
I just watched (for the first time) the EQN Panel on Classes, and I was sorely disappointed when I saw that they were making it so people can basically turn your character into an "all class hybrid" eventually with enough leveling and customization. This is bascially making EQN a mix of Guild Wars 2 and RIFT. Are you kidding?
If when I start an MMO and pick my first class, I pick a Cleric because clearly I am interested in being a HEALER and I enjoy healing, rezzing, and buffing players. Sure maybe I can customize that healer to being more of an "offensive healer" where the heals aren't as good but I get some offensive spells, but still I am a HEALER.
If I wanted that healer to be a stealthy rogue that can hide in shadows, or be a warrior that can leap 50 feet in the air and do a huge whirlwind attack, THEN I WOULD HAVE PICKED THOSE GODDAMN CLASSES FROM THE START.
I just don't understand how these devs work these days.
Is this what the MMO community really wants? They don't want "dedicated healers" or "dedicated wizards" anymore? They want their class to be able to do everything?
This really pisses me off.
I 100% agree with everything you said, Im old school , If I wanted to play a different class I would make a new character what players call an ALT .
I guess Im the sort of D&D type player from way back baldurs gate etc .
Baldur's Gate had multiclassing. Exactly the kind of multiclassing that could easily produce the "able to do everything" problem.
Also, a magic system that (if you knew what you were doing and could get through the early-level grind) rendered every other class virtually obsolete.
Would you have liked choosing a path early in your life and you had to stick to that path for the rest of it ? Wouldn't it be a lot more fun to do whatever the bleep you wanted ?
I just watched (for the first time) the EQN Panel on Classes, and I was sorely disappointed when I saw that they were making it so people can basically turn your character into an "all class hybrid" eventually with enough leveling and customization. This is bascially making EQN a mix of Guild Wars 2 and RIFT. Are you kidding?
If when I start an MMO and pick my first class, I pick a Cleric because clearly I am interested in being a HEALER and I enjoy healing, rezzing, and buffing players. Sure maybe I can customize that healer to being more of an "offensive healer" where the heals aren't as good but I get some offensive spells, but still I am a HEALER.
If I wanted that healer to be a stealthy rogue that can hide in shadows, or be a warrior that can leap 50 feet in the air and do a huge whirlwind attack, THEN I WOULD HAVE PICKED THOSE GODDAMN CLASSES FROM THE START.
I just don't understand how these devs work these days.
Is this what the MMO community really wants? They don't want "dedicated healers" or "dedicated wizards" anymore? They want their class to be able to do everything?
This really pisses me off.
It's called build crafting guy.
Just because games were limited and made your choices for you 'back in the day', does not mean that's the only way to design a game. Nor does it mean that it's 'the best' way to do it.
I'm sorry, but you're sounding like a jaded vet. Complaining about how good things were back in the day, when you had to walk uphill both ways to grind your quest, and everything was great because all your class choices were made for you.
i too liked the older games, and while there are features that I miss, I fail to see how giving players MORE options is a bad thing. I'm sorry. I also find it makes for much more interesting grouping when not all healers are using the exact same abilities, not all tanks are walking taunt mechanics, dps classes have actual utility, and the differences between players of similar roles goes beyond how they sound on voip.
Just because people can choose their own abilities does NOT mean you can't have dedicated roles. If you think that GW2 and Rift don't have dedicated roles, then you really didn't play them very much.
I just watched (for the first time) the EQN Panel on Classes, and I was sorely disappointed when I saw that they were making it so people can basically turn your character into an "all class hybrid" eventually with enough leveling and customization. This is bascially making EQN a mix of Guild Wars 2 and RIFT. Are you kidding?
If when I start an MMO and pick my first class, I pick a Cleric because clearly I am interested in being a HEALER and I enjoy healing, rezzing, and buffing players. Sure maybe I can customize that healer to being more of an "offensive healer" where the heals aren't as good but I get some offensive spells, but still I am a HEALER.
If I wanted that healer to be a stealthy rogue that can hide in shadows, or be a warrior that can leap 50 feet in the air and do a huge whirlwind attack, THEN I WOULD HAVE PICKED THOSE GODDAMN CLASSES FROM THE START.
I just don't understand how these devs work these days.
Is this what the MMO community really wants? They don't want "dedicated healers" or "dedicated wizards" anymore? They want their class to be able to do everything?
This really pisses me off.
yea, sucks tho you are not the majority of people.
that majority hates one role, they need respeccs in diablo. ways to change their class speccs in WoW and so on.
when i started and i wanted another rogue style char, i had to play another one from start and then skill him like i wanted him.
now? it's "uh yea, you dont want that tank spec anymore? sure thing, specc dd, or heal!"
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
No one is going to be FORCED to do anything. This isn't the Nazi SS boot camp forcing you to download the damn game and then play it. If for whatever reason, you don't like cartoons, then do not buy it, download it, or play it. It's that simple. EverQuest was released in 1999. It still lives, but yeah it's been changed and it's NOT the same game it was in 1999. It's fun once in a while to reminisce about the ol' days. However, truly every blasted time I come through this forum, it's all this "get off my lawn" mentality and the ol' "back in the day, sonny...".
"Nazi SS Boot Camp"? Hyperbole much? We all know that in MMOs people will be pressured to go with optimal builds. That's just how these games work. If battle mage is more powerful but I want to be pure mage I will have trouble getting groups. So the "If you don't like it just don't do it." is disingenuous.
Not at all. It's a choice you make to put 'finding groups' ahead of 'play what you want.' No different than the guy who really wants to play a rogue, but is 'forced' by his guild to roll a healer because that's what the guild is short on.
Just to elaborate on this, people are *@&;ing lazy.
The whole 'forced to group with optimal classes' is an excuse at best. While it's true that people will ALWAYS pigeon-hole themselves into what they see as the 'most efficient' roles, that doesn't make it a requirement. And in well made games, those same roles are constantly shifting / being argued about.
Most people who fall victim to this just want to be told how to play the game, and hope that what they are told matches up with how they want to play. Laziness. As someone who has played a fair amount of games that all have this exact problem, I'll just say this:
Most players just want to get through the content with minimal headaches. Very few players will care if you're matching the world record for speed clears. The only reason people insist on picking certain classes over others, is because they are told 'these are the best choices', and thus assume that if they ask only for those classes they are more guarunteed to get a smoother clear. If you make the groups yourself, or play well enough that things get done with minimal hastle, people WILL NOT CARE if you aren't the optimal class. In fact a lot of people have made names for themselves by deliberately playing classes most people thought were garbage.
In these games it's nearly always better to friend & group with more skilled players, than average players playing optimal roles.
I can't believe you guys can stil be hyped for upcoming MMORPGs. Every single one will fail from now on. Just like they kept failing in in the last 8 years.
Originally posted by Zadawn I can't believe you guys can stil be hyped for upcoming MMORPGs. Every single one will fail from now on. Just like they kept failing in in the last 8 years.
I agree with you in theory but this one actually realizes that the genre is broken and needs to be changed so it at least has a chance to be good. Knowing that doesn't mean they can't screw it up obviously but at least there is hope.
I just watched (for the first time) the EQN Panel on Classes, and I was sorely disappointed when I saw that they were making it so people can basically turn your character into an "all class hybrid" eventually with enough leveling and customization. This is bascially making EQN a mix of Guild Wars 2 and RIFT. Are you kidding?
If when I start an MMO and pick my first class, I pick a Cleric because clearly I am interested in being a HEALER and I enjoy healing, rezzing, and buffing players. Sure maybe I can customize that healer to being more of an "offensive healer" where the heals aren't as good but I get some offensive spells, but still I am a HEALER.
If I wanted that healer to be a stealthy rogue that can hide in shadows, or be a warrior that can leap 50 feet in the air and do a huge whirlwind attack, THEN I WOULD HAVE PICKED THOSE GODDAMN CLASSES FROM THE START.
I just don't understand how these devs work these days.
Is this what the MMO community really wants? They don't want "dedicated healers" or "dedicated wizards" anymore? They want their class to be able to do everything?
This really pisses me off.
I am an old school D&D player and MMO player as well and I shared your concerns until I really thought it through. Just think of a lot of the classic heroes from lore that we like and imagine what class they are.
Gandalf - Wizard right? Oh but wizards generally cant use swords, or if they could they are generally not very effective with them, yet gandalf can hold his own in a melee fight in addition to being a wizard. So what if we made gandalf in EQN: His eight skills may look like this: 1 - Warrior sword attack, 2 - Warrior sword defense, 3-8 - Wizard spells.
What about Artimeis Entreri, hes surely not just a rogue, or just a warrior. Or drizzt, hes not just a ranger, or just a warrior.
You can still go full on wizard or full on healer, in fact by some accounts Merlin was not just a wizard, he could heal as well, and so maybe Merlin may be 80% wizard with 2 healing spells.
I don't see it as a bad thing if done properly, they have to be careful though, as "best build class mixes" can occur with systems like this.
Oh let me throw another curveball at you fine folks.
Let's pretend I'm an Ogre Warrior, and I'm leveling up and going about my business. I also level up my rogue, mage, and cleric on the same character. With me so far?
But I want my mage to be a female high elf! Since they are going to let me be any class and swap them out of combat when I want to, are they going to let me change my race too?
Because I'd like to have:
An Ogre Warrior A High Elf Mage A Halfling Rogue A Dwarf Cleric
on the same character please. I mean why not right? If you're going to let us "Choose what we want to do", then I want to have all the classes and all the races on the same character.
It makes more sense that I could learn multiple professions and take aspects of those with me into other classes than change my DNA, there's your immersion
The (tentative) system SoE laid out in the Live panel is not the "jack of all trades" system. You can only have one active "class" at a time. That active class has two weapon sets that dictate your first four abilities. The second set is what can be swapped out BUT they are categorized by offensive, defensive, utility or movement. Each class will have a different array of categories so a Wizard may have two offensive and two movement, therefore could not equip a "defensive" skill of any other class you've gained.
Personally I think the system is brilliant because you have to actually earn the other classes. You can't just walk up to a trainer in Qeynos and pay to gain another class.
As far as the process of changing one class to another on the fly I can see how that would be immersion breaking. SoE hasn't said how the will handle that and maybe a player will have to go to a tavern or city to swap. On the fly does sound silly but the tradeoff to having so much progression depth far outshines that IMO.
To all the people who say you can still be a dedicated healer / tank.... no you can't if the content isn't designed for it, a group will drop you in a heartbeat to take a dps.
I was super-psyched for this game, until I watched the Class Q&A, same bull that GW2 tried to sell us. Why developers need to mess with what works I will never understand.
Dynamic Content - Awesome we need more of that
Destructible Terrain - Fantastic Idea, Next Gen
Visual Emote System, Multi Tiered World all good idea's
Now lets ruin it all by making everyone a dps and removing all class roles. Zerg Fest GW2 style here we come.
It was obvious during the Q&A that many people there where also having a WTF moment, so much good made damn near pointless by one incredibly bad decision, "Systems are in place" is not a valid counter argument, it's spin-doctor bull. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.
Gandalf - Wizard right? Oh but wizards generally cant use swords, or if they could they are generally not very effective with them, yet gandalf can hold his own in a melee fight in addition to being a wizard. So what if we made gandalf in EQN: His eight skills may look like this: 1 - Warrior sword attack, 2 - Warrior sword defense, 3-8 - Wizard spells.
I don't think some of you uderstand, you can not be "every class" in EQN.
You start off picking a class. Then as you play you can obtain the skills/abilities that are found through the world.
Now you are a limited number of both weapon and ability slots. Your weapon slot is determined by your class that you are playing as and your four ability slots you can mix and match with the abilities you have acquired.
However the TYPES of ability slots are also determined by your class. For example, if you are playing as a healer class, you might have say, one offensive ability slot, one defensive slot, then two utility slots (IE heals).
Whereas lets say you are playing as an offensive class like a rogue, you might have 2 offensive slots, one defensive slot, and one utility slot.
Also they have mentioned how certain items and things might have affects on your ability slots, where you might be able to alter things to fit certain skills that otherwise you couldn't.
To me this sounds FAR more exciting then "pick a class, stuck in that class the rest of your characters lifetime."
This doesn't mean everyone will be "jack of all trades" and in fact I think many people will go toward a focus, either dps, bit tanky, or healer types when they are selecting their builds and abilities.
As far as combat goes and "needing' the trinity to have meanginful combat, wrong, just plain wrong.
One need only look at MOBA games (which the EQN dev's have mentioned in regards to combat and things) to see how you can still have good combat and roles to play without relying on a strict trinity setup.
Originally posted by ReaperJoda ..people are to lazy to re-roll...they want everything and it all now. So of course SoE will bow down to that to make the dollar. This game really should be called eq next not.
Ran out of excuses so now pull the "lazy" card /facepalm
To all the people who say you can still be a dedicated healer / tank.... no you can't if the content isn't designed for it, a group will drop you in a heartbeat to take a dps.
Now lets ruin it all by making everyone a dps and removing all class roles. Zerg Fest GW2 style here we come.
What if content isn't designed for DPS? They'll drop DPS for a healer, tank, cc, or whatever? Sounds good to me. Instead of every single encounter requiring XYZ, players will get to figure it out and plan accordingly. From what I understand, players are free to try an encounter with anything, with some classes/builds being more effective. One fight might need 1 dps, 2 cc, and 2 healers and the next might need 4 stealth and 1 tank.
GW2 classes were designed for PVP and PVE was designed for DPS zerging. There is very little room for creativity.
Considering they said they've played GW2 specifically and don't want to follow their system, not sure where people keep getting this copy cat idea from.
In a game designed with multi-classing in mind, if someone chooses to limit themselves to one class/build/role, then they have to work with it and realize not all content is made for them specifically and some may be very challenging and some groups may prefer someone else. They are putting a restriction/handicap on themselves, not the games or other players fault.
I could give a long list of examples of how a flexible combat system can have situations for every combo imaginable, but it is rather pointless. Use some imagination.
A very simple example: A mob is immune to all damage except melee projectiles (spears, arrows, throwing knives, etc.), what will we do??? play Rangers and appropriate classes, sorry melee/magic users. Another example: A mob spits out DOTs left and right but is relatively weak, requires 1 DPS and 4 healers to constantly cleanse everyone.
Beauty is everyone is free to discover and progress classes they want and then go out and use them as they see fit. Some classes will excel and one thing and struggle at others.
Only limit is dev imagination and our own if we have any say in EQN's Alpha.
Then again I'm pulling this out of thin air like all the doomsayers, so eh whatever.
I have no idea why they even call this game Everquest Next. It has nothing to do with Everquest. Sony was just the cash cow that bought the Everquest franchise, and obviously they have no idea how to re-make such a successful game. They are just throwing the EQ name on a GW2 ripoff. It doesn't surprise me that they haven't had any real big hits since EQ1.
It is remarkable the extent to which so many folks treat assumption and opinion as facts.
The only way to know if one will enjoy and understand the game is to play it and then make a decision.
In any case, I loath rolling alts and I enjoy playing around with character customizations. I will simply have to wait and see if I enjoy this game or not.
The most important aspect of this class discussion is how the actual content is implemented.
If all the dungeons or raid bosses have mechanics that do not require a tank or healer, then i personally feel that's bad. It'll turn into another "bring as many dps as possible" and burn stuff before they have a chance to do anything, similar to GW2.
If the content is built around requiring expanded trinity setups, then an open class system will really shine. The flexibility it provides will be amazing.
Personally i feel like EQN tossed all of it's apples into the GW2 basket before they saw how all that fleshed out PVE wise. Unfortunately that aspect is by far the weakest of the game in my opinion. I love a lot about the game but the PVE is lacking. I fear it'll turn into the same in EQN. I could be wrong and i hope that i am.
I do not think that there will be no need for tanks, healers, etc. But, the key is that any given character can play those roles. So, there will be little waiting for form a group looking for a certain role.
I am an altaholic. So, this system works well for me. I can choose to play each class while only having one toon. Works well for my wife and five kids also. I can still play with each of them on the same toon.
The multi-class system does not dilute the need for specific roles, it just allows one toon to play each role when necessary.
Pigglesworth I would be fine with that, but watch the Q&A they made it clear there are no dedicated healers or tanks or even the ability to taunt. Multi Classing on the same toon I can deal with, but they are flat out anti trinity. Can you do a dungeon with a balanced group... sure, or everyone goes flat out dps and does it in half the time. Class Roles add depth and teamwork. People are mentioning MOBAs as examples of Trinityless games that work... are you serious? Except for being vastly diffrent.. they DO have dedicated tanks and healers.
Originally posted by drkoracle Pigglesworth I would be fine with that, but watch the Q&A they made it clear there are no dedicated healers or tanks or even the ability to taunt. Multi Classing on the same toon I can deal with, but they are flat out anti trinity. Can you do a dungeon with a balanced group... sure, or everyone goes flat out dps and does it in half the time. Class Roles add depth and teamwork. People are mentioning MOBAs as examples of Trinityless games that work... are you serious? Except for being vastly diffrent.. they DO have dedicated tanks and healers.
Taunting is not the only tank-related action. New games, such as ESO have the tanks concentrate more on positioning mobs, absorbing/blocking hits, etc. The concentration on keeping "agro" has just changed to more active defense.
No one stops you from making a strict healer toon. You choose the active class, which comes with certain skills, but then you add a few other skills from your library, if you wish. You can make those all healer skills or not. Its your choice.
Comments
I 100% agree with everything you said, Im old school , If I wanted to play a different class I would make a new character what players call an ALT .
I guess Im the sort of D&D type player from way back baldurs gate etc .
Baldur's Gate had multiclassing. Exactly the kind of multiclassing that could easily produce the "able to do everything" problem.
Also, a magic system that (if you knew what you were doing and could get through the early-level grind) rendered every other class virtually obsolete.
This game really should be called eq next not.
It's called build crafting guy.
Just because games were limited and made your choices for you 'back in the day', does not mean that's the only way to design a game. Nor does it mean that it's 'the best' way to do it.
I'm sorry, but you're sounding like a jaded vet. Complaining about how good things were back in the day, when you had to walk uphill both ways to grind your quest, and everything was great because all your class choices were made for you.
i too liked the older games, and while there are features that I miss, I fail to see how giving players MORE options is a bad thing. I'm sorry. I also find it makes for much more interesting grouping when not all healers are using the exact same abilities, not all tanks are walking taunt mechanics, dps classes have actual utility, and the differences between players of similar roles goes beyond how they sound on voip.
Just because people can choose their own abilities does NOT mean you can't have dedicated roles. If you think that GW2 and Rift don't have dedicated roles, then you really didn't play them very much.
yea, sucks tho you are not the majority of people.
that majority hates one role, they need respeccs in diablo. ways to change their class speccs in WoW and so on.
when i started and i wanted another rogue style char, i had to play another one from start and then skill him like i wanted him.
now? it's "uh yea, you dont want that tank spec anymore? sure thing, specc dd, or heal!"
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Just to elaborate on this, people are *@&;ing lazy.
The whole 'forced to group with optimal classes' is an excuse at best. While it's true that people will ALWAYS pigeon-hole themselves into what they see as the 'most efficient' roles, that doesn't make it a requirement. And in well made games, those same roles are constantly shifting / being argued about.
Most people who fall victim to this just want to be told how to play the game, and hope that what they are told matches up with how they want to play. Laziness. As someone who has played a fair amount of games that all have this exact problem, I'll just say this:
Most players just want to get through the content with minimal headaches. Very few players will care if you're matching the world record for speed clears. The only reason people insist on picking certain classes over others, is because they are told 'these are the best choices', and thus assume that if they ask only for those classes they are more guarunteed to get a smoother clear. If you make the groups yourself, or play well enough that things get done with minimal hastle, people WILL NOT CARE if you aren't the optimal class. In fact a lot of people have made names for themselves by deliberately playing classes most people thought were garbage.
In these games it's nearly always better to friend & group with more skilled players, than average players playing optimal roles.
I agree with you in theory but this one actually realizes that the genre is broken and needs to be changed so it at least has a chance to be good. Knowing that doesn't mean they can't screw it up obviously but at least there is hope.
I am an old school D&D player and MMO player as well and I shared your concerns until I really thought it through. Just think of a lot of the classic heroes from lore that we like and imagine what class they are.
Gandalf - Wizard right? Oh but wizards generally cant use swords, or if they could they are generally not very effective with them, yet gandalf can hold his own in a melee fight in addition to being a wizard. So what if we made gandalf in EQN: His eight skills may look like this: 1 - Warrior sword attack, 2 - Warrior sword defense, 3-8 - Wizard spells.
What about Artimeis Entreri, hes surely not just a rogue, or just a warrior. Or drizzt, hes not just a ranger, or just a warrior.
You can still go full on wizard or full on healer, in fact by some accounts Merlin was not just a wizard, he could heal as well, and so maybe Merlin may be 80% wizard with 2 healing spells.
I don't see it as a bad thing if done properly, they have to be careful though, as "best build class mixes" can occur with systems like this.
It makes more sense that I could learn multiple professions and take aspects of those with me into other classes than change my DNA, there's your immersion
The (tentative) system SoE laid out in the Live panel is not the "jack of all trades" system. You can only have one active "class" at a time. That active class has two weapon sets that dictate your first four abilities. The second set is what can be swapped out BUT they are categorized by offensive, defensive, utility or movement. Each class will have a different array of categories so a Wizard may have two offensive and two movement, therefore could not equip a "defensive" skill of any other class you've gained.
Personally I think the system is brilliant because you have to actually earn the other classes. You can't just walk up to a trainer in Qeynos and pay to gain another class.
As far as the process of changing one class to another on the fly I can see how that would be immersion breaking. SoE hasn't said how the will handle that and maybe a player will have to go to a tavern or city to swap. On the fly does sound silly but the tradeoff to having so much progression depth far outshines that IMO.
To all the people who say you can still be a dedicated healer / tank.... no you can't if the content isn't designed for it, a group will drop you in a heartbeat to take a dps.
I was super-psyched for this game, until I watched the Class Q&A, same bull that GW2 tried to sell us. Why developers need to mess with what works I will never understand.
Dynamic Content - Awesome we need more of that
Destructible Terrain - Fantastic Idea, Next Gen
Visual Emote System, Multi Tiered World all good idea's
Now lets ruin it all by making everyone a dps and removing all class roles. Zerg Fest GW2 style here we come.
It was obvious during the Q&A that many people there where also having a WTF moment, so much good made damn near pointless by one incredibly bad decision, "Systems are in place" is not a valid counter argument, it's spin-doctor bull. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.
dont forget a self rez (maybe an elite skill?)
I don't think some of you uderstand, you can not be "every class" in EQN.
You start off picking a class. Then as you play you can obtain the skills/abilities that are found through the world.
Now you are a limited number of both weapon and ability slots. Your weapon slot is determined by your class that you are playing as and your four ability slots you can mix and match with the abilities you have acquired.
However the TYPES of ability slots are also determined by your class. For example, if you are playing as a healer class, you might have say, one offensive ability slot, one defensive slot, then two utility slots (IE heals).
Whereas lets say you are playing as an offensive class like a rogue, you might have 2 offensive slots, one defensive slot, and one utility slot.
Also they have mentioned how certain items and things might have affects on your ability slots, where you might be able to alter things to fit certain skills that otherwise you couldn't.
To me this sounds FAR more exciting then "pick a class, stuck in that class the rest of your characters lifetime."
This doesn't mean everyone will be "jack of all trades" and in fact I think many people will go toward a focus, either dps, bit tanky, or healer types when they are selecting their builds and abilities.
As far as combat goes and "needing' the trinity to have meanginful combat, wrong, just plain wrong.
One need only look at MOBA games (which the EQN dev's have mentioned in regards to combat and things) to see how you can still have good combat and roles to play without relying on a strict trinity setup.
Ran out of excuses so now pull the "lazy" card /facepalm
What if content isn't designed for DPS? They'll drop DPS for a healer, tank, cc, or whatever? Sounds good to me. Instead of every single encounter requiring XYZ, players will get to figure it out and plan accordingly. From what I understand, players are free to try an encounter with anything, with some classes/builds being more effective. One fight might need 1 dps, 2 cc, and 2 healers and the next might need 4 stealth and 1 tank.
GW2 classes were designed for PVP and PVE was designed for DPS zerging. There is very little room for creativity.
Considering they said they've played GW2 specifically and don't want to follow their system, not sure where people keep getting this copy cat idea from.
In a game designed with multi-classing in mind, if someone chooses to limit themselves to one class/build/role, then they have to work with it and realize not all content is made for them specifically and some may be very challenging and some groups may prefer someone else. They are putting a restriction/handicap on themselves, not the games or other players fault.
I could give a long list of examples of how a flexible combat system can have situations for every combo imaginable, but it is rather pointless. Use some imagination.
A very simple example: A mob is immune to all damage except melee projectiles (spears, arrows, throwing knives, etc.), what will we do??? play Rangers and appropriate classes, sorry melee/magic users. Another example: A mob spits out DOTs left and right but is relatively weak, requires 1 DPS and 4 healers to constantly cleanse everyone.
Beauty is everyone is free to discover and progress classes they want and then go out and use them as they see fit. Some classes will excel and one thing and struggle at others.
Only limit is dev imagination and our own if we have any say in EQN's Alpha.
Then again I'm pulling this out of thin air like all the doomsayers, so eh whatever.
It is remarkable the extent to which so many folks treat assumption and opinion as facts.
The only way to know if one will enjoy and understand the game is to play it and then make a decision.
In any case, I loath rolling alts and I enjoy playing around with character customizations. I will simply have to wait and see if I enjoy this game or not.
EQN is an mmo for the ADD generation.
For the real successor to EQ see https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen
The most important aspect of this class discussion is how the actual content is implemented.
If all the dungeons or raid bosses have mechanics that do not require a tank or healer, then i personally feel that's bad. It'll turn into another "bring as many dps as possible" and burn stuff before they have a chance to do anything, similar to GW2.
If the content is built around requiring expanded trinity setups, then an open class system will really shine. The flexibility it provides will be amazing.
Personally i feel like EQN tossed all of it's apples into the GW2 basket before they saw how all that fleshed out PVE wise. Unfortunately that aspect is by far the weakest of the game in my opinion. I love a lot about the game but the PVE is lacking. I fear it'll turn into the same in EQN. I could be wrong and i hope that i am.
I do not think that there will be no need for tanks, healers, etc. But, the key is that any given character can play those roles. So, there will be little waiting for form a group looking for a certain role.
I am an altaholic. So, this system works well for me. I can choose to play each class while only having one toon. Works well for my wife and five kids also. I can still play with each of them on the same toon.
The multi-class system does not dilute the need for specific roles, it just allows one toon to play each role when necessary.
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Taunting is not the only tank-related action. New games, such as ESO have the tanks concentrate more on positioning mobs, absorbing/blocking hits, etc. The concentration on keeping "agro" has just changed to more active defense.
No one stops you from making a strict healer toon. You choose the active class, which comes with certain skills, but then you add a few other skills from your library, if you wish. You can make those all healer skills or not. Its your choice.
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