Remember, every technique has a few early adopters. The whole free-to-play thing (here, in the west) was jumpstarted by Turbine with LOTRO, and people predicted its swift demise and all the pay-to-win stuff, but it didn't seem to happen because they wanted a reasonable ROI, not a golden goose.
I suspect their plan is to grab as much cash as they can during the first year, to make the investors happy, and then when the inevitable decline starts, they'll drop the subscription and already have everything in place for the cash shop, without having to take things away from people (since they already bought them, or didn't).
It makes me half hope it DOES flop, because it's a poorly thought out, short term business model that I'd hate to see other titles embrace. The subscription model provides a nice predictable level of income, and is fantastic if you don't insist on having a bazillion players. Look at EVE-Online. Consider how much extra capital CCP had with a mere 250K subscribers... enough to buy out White Wolf and ramp up two more development teams.
Using one of the posters analogy of bicycles, lets say some vendor would advertise that in order for everyone to get proper quality maintained bicycles and some upgrades in the future you are required to pay them an "insurance" every month.
Ok, fine with that. That justifies the fee and there's no problem with that.
Now when you go get your bike, there's a surprise. All bikes are complete according to the vendor specs, the catch is that the bikes now come with crappy brakes by default, that weren't in the original spec.
For an extra fee can buy the better brakes. You feel a bit crappy about it but who doesn't want better brakes, right?
Wait till the vendor further down the line tells you that you have to pay for the seat. Enjoy the bumpy road.
Jokes aside, Zenimax is doing a plain cash-grab and is already contradicting what was advertised by Firor.
The new race is the 1st pay-wall , most likely of many to come if peeps swallow this one.
Digital Box + Monthly Fee + Content Pay-wall is really pushing the envelope.
Sorry but if you guys can't seem to grasp this, all hope is lost.
Pretty much right. I'm not planning on playing the imperial, but if I purchase the CE I want everything to be exclusive fluff. Not actual content that forces the people who want to play their favorite race to pay 20 bucks extra. And Imperial is a pretty popular race in TES.
Thing is, that it also contains convenience items such as a free horse and free rings of Mara which are both two very expensive items. The horse alone have been announced to cost about 15 000 septims.
Cash shop needs to be a non-tolerant zone. Either you take part of it or you don't. You can't offer extra content "Upgrades" if you're already paying for the extra monthly content with your subscription. And that's where our trust comes in. If we can't trust them to refuse all kinds of "extra" content, how can we trust them that they won't keep adding more of it? Just like the bike seat example you posed.
Remember, every technique has a few early adopters. The whole free-to-play thing (here, in the west) was jumpstarted by Turbine with LOTRO, and people predicted its swift demise and all the pay-to-win stuff, but it didn't seem to happen because they wanted a reasonable ROI, not a golden goose.
With DDO actually; they later announced they would be converting their other title; LOTRO as well because they liked the results they were getting with DDO's payment model.
Credit where credit is due.
Carry on!
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I give it 3-6 months before the exodus begins, and people get bored of the game after they find out there is no longevity to this game, reason being they have been hiding behind their NDA and other than weekend tests I have not heard of one single person actually in a proper alpha or beta test program where adequate testing can be done. It sends up red flags when they go to great lengths to hide their game like they don't really feel confident about their game. And they know it perhaps..kinda like TOR found out after people reached the cap and found there wasnt nothing to do.
There is fair amount of the single player ES variety feels that the gameplay that made ES popular is sorely lacking in ESO and I felt the same way as they are pushing voice acting and story, ES games once again werent popular cause of stories it was gameplay. TOR tried this as well and people fled the game, now its F2P is it doing well now ? For the moment yes, most of them f2p players that play what they want and when they get bored and leave...it was compelling enough to play thru 1 time, after that the rest was a trainwreck for content , that other games do better if your into the whole raid or die or pvp in a shoebox.
Let me know when WoW adds racial unlocks to their cash shop...
They can charge what they like but I don't have to buy it or like it . Basic economics, if you raise the price of something too high you actually start to make less money.
If they release an expansion that includes a race which can only be played by those play the expansion, that is the equivalent of a racial unlock in a cash shop.
^^^This.
And it's the Imperial at that. -_-
Sure, but that "Racial unlock" isn't an expansion. It doesn't grant you any new content other than that race yet it is still almost half the price of an expansion.
The box game should launch with everything except some exclusive, limited fluff for the CE edition. Don't let people pay for convenience, that belongs in F2P games. Don't give the horse away for free, let them still have to grind up to get it. All they'll receive is a white horse. Don't allow anything other than the crafting style of the Imperial armour into the game. That's something interesting and unique, let the CE exclusive have that. And don't change the whole nature of the game before launch as if it were in expansion. Again, it's not.
Paying for stock races that's been in offline games since Morrowind is a non-starter, though.
That's the definition of a money grab -- charge extra for something already enjoyed as a whole package in the same franchise, but in another venture.
Let me know when WoW adds racial unlocks to their cash shop...
They can charge what they like but I don't have to buy it or like it . Basic economics, if you raise the price of something too high you actually start to make less money.
If they release an expansion that includes a race which can only be played by those play the expansion, that is the equivalent of a racial unlock in a cash shop.
^^^This.
And it's the Imperial at that. -_-
Sure, but that "Racial unlock" isn't an expansion. It doesn't grant you any new content other than that race yet it is still almost half the price of an expansion.
The box game should launch with everything except some exclusive, limited fluff for the CE edition. Don't let people pay for convenience, that belongs in F2P games. Don't give the horse away for free, let them still have to grind up to get it. All they'll receive is a white horse. Don't allow anything other than the crafting style of the Imperial armour into the game. That's something interesting and unique, let the CE exclusive have that. And don't change the whole nature of the game before launch as if it were in expansion. Again, it's not.
Paying for stock races that's been in offline games since Morrowind is a non-starter, though.
That's the definition of a money grab -- charge extra for something already enjoyed as a whole package in the same franchise, but in another venture.
Looks like it. I wouldn't have cared as much if it wasn't for their very conspicuous U-Turn from "Faction Pride" and "No paygates". It's rather alarming.
Its sad to see the ignorant fanboys, who defends obvious bad buisness practice even though, it actully hurts their game and their genre of gaming(i presume you like mmos). Yes, exclusive stuff has always been in a CE, but never in this form or shape, this is a NEW pratice, and its GREEDY, and its wrong. If you buy the game 1 month after release, and you pay the sub, you wont have acces to the full game, and that is WRONG. When you buy the game you should have acces to all the content of the game, and not be restricted. Yelling about this now is a good thing for everyone, cause if people dont, other games will do the same and this genre(mmo's), will die even faster.
Its sad to see the ignorant fanboys, who defends obvious bad buisness practice even though, it actully hurts their game and their genre of gaming(i presume you like mmos). Yes, exclusive stuff has always been in a CE, but never in this form or shape, this is a NEW pratice, and its GREEDY, and its wrong. If you buy the game 1 month after release, and you pay the sub, you wont have acces to the full game, and that is WRONG. When you buy the game you should have acces to all the content of the game, and not be restricted. Yelling about this now is a good thing for everyone, cause if people dont, other games will do the same and this genre(mmo's), will die even faster.
1. I am not a fanboy. I actually have never overplayed an elder scrolls game because there is not enough combat compared to running around.
2. People wanted to go to any alliance, the company gave that to us... how is that bad practice?
3. The company's main goal is to make revenue to earn a profit, they charge more for a collectors edition... seems reasonable.
4. People who buy the collectors edition receive extra (like all games offer)... seems normal.
Using one of the posters analogy of bicycles, lets say some vendor would advertise that in order for everyone to get proper quality maintained bicycles and some upgrades in the future you are required to pay them an "insurance" every month.
Ok, fine with that. That justifies the fee and there's no problem with that.
Now when you go get your bike, there's a surprise. All bikes are complete according to the vendor specs, the catch is that the bikes now come with crappy brakes by default, that weren't in the original spec.
For an extra fee can buy the better brakes. You feel a bit crappy about it but who doesn't want better brakes, right?
Wait till the vendor further down the line tells you that you have to pay for the seat. Enjoy the bumpy road.
Jokes aside, Zenimax is doing a plain cash-grab and is already contradicting what was advertised by Firor.
The new race is the 1st pay-wall , most likely of many to come if peeps swallow this one.
Digital Box + Monthly Fee + Content Pay-wall is really pushing the envelope.
Sorry but if you guys can't seem to grasp this, all hope is lost.
Pretty much right. I'm not planning on playing the imperial, but if I purchase the CE I want everything to be exclusive fluff. Not actual content that forces the people who want to play their favorite race to pay 20 bucks extra. And Imperial is a pretty popular race in TES.
Thing is, that it also contains convenience items such as a free horse and free rings of Mara which are both two very expensive items. The horse alone have been announced to cost about 15 000 septims.
Cash shop needs to be a non-tolerant zone. Either you take part of it or you don't. You can't offer extra content "Upgrades" if you're already paying for the extra monthly content with your subscription. And that's where our trust comes in. If we can't trust them to refuse all kinds of "extra" content, how can we trust them that they won't keep adding more of it? Just like the bike seat example you posed.
While I'm not a fan of gating content behind a DLC. That is a HORRIBLE analogy.
You're bike analogy is putting a price tag on things that are not only required for safety reasons, but are also features of the product that you cannot use properly without.
A new race (which does nothing special) is not a requirement to join the game. Should it be available to everyone? Yes, I think so. But it is hardly the same as giving people crap breaks unless they spend an extra 20$.
A more fitting analogy would be if you bought a bike, and asked them if you could get it in black. The manufacturer says no, that's not available. Then when you go to purchase the bike, they say 'we can give you this in black, but it'll cost you an extra 20$'.
That is much closer to the reality of what is going on. Is it a crap business practice? Yes, I think so. But way too many people are taking what is a fairly minor grievance, and running to the moon with it. Not to mention the number of these threads being made by people who, until JUST recently, showed absolutely no interest in playing the game & thought it was garbage.
I agree and this was a bad move from Zenimax I don't know who they hired as a marketing leading but he is a idiot .
First Game always was looking bad. 90 % of beta testers bashed the game. In official gameplay game was looking horrible. Witch started the holy war if ESO will fail or not .
Now they started Pre order game is under NDA most of people don't know anything about the game.
PACK and pre order give a clear thought that game will have a cash shop.
With race Treasure map. I'm rely disappointed.
I'm not ready to give 54 Euro or 75$$ if you're from EU for something I never seen Oh wait I've seen a cinematic and a few game plays COOL take my money ZENIMAX are you retarded
90% of people who are willing to violate the NDA bashing the game =/= 90% of all those who actually played bashing the game.
Well, for starters, I'd say "90%" is an exaggeration. There's been plenty of positive feed back as well - considerably more than just 10%. But then, people just like to pick large numbers out of the blue and throw them around as though they're fact.
That stated, even giving them the "90%" bit... We don't even know what % of those people actually played the game at all. Most of the complaints I see are basically people saying the same things. I could just as easily say I've played it, repeat a few things I've read others say, and no one would know the difference.
'course, you could say the same thing of those praising it.
Point is...
One thing I've noticed in my time here is that "honesty" isn't held in very high regard for many people.
Its sad to see the ignorant fanboys, who defends obvious bad buisness practice even though, it actully hurts their game and their genre of gaming(i presume you like mmos). Yes, exclusive stuff has always been in a CE, but never in this form or shape, this is a NEW pratice, and its GREEDY, and its wrong. If you buy the game 1 month after release, and you pay the sub, you wont have acces to the full game, and that is WRONG. When you buy the game you should have acces to all the content of the game, and not be restricted. Yelling about this now is a good thing for everyone, cause if people dont, other games will do the same and this genre(mmo's), will die even faster.
1) I'm not sure where you're seeing all these 'ignorant fanboys'. Most of these threads are flooded with haters, not fanboys.
2) I agree that part of what is being added to the CE is in poor taste, and should either be re-worded, modified, removed, clarified, or made available to everyone.
3) Zenimax adding a crappy last-minute CE decision doesn't make the game automatically trash. Most of those 'fanboys' have only been saying that the game is actually better than the 100s of haters on these forums have been trying to campaign since the game has been in alpha.
There's a simple solution to this issue. DON'T buy the pre-order. Simple as that. This is not the only company that has tried something like this, nor is this a new thing that has happened. EA has been getting away with this crap for years. It's not surprising that other companies are going to want to see if they can do the same.
Personally, I'm going to wait and see what happens. I'm not going to buy the CE, and will likely pass on the pre-order at this point. I will continue to beta test and if the game keeps going the way it's been going (PR crap aside), I will likely be playing this title anyway. It's a much better game than most people are giving it credit for, and while this kinda marketting stuff isn't helping, people are buying way too much into the negative hype surrounding this game, before even giving the game a fair shot.
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?
This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.
So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.
Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.
WoW is a sub only game with a cash shop, so the answer no.
That stated, even giving them the "90%" bit... We don't even know what % of those people actually played the game at all. Most of the complaints I see are basically people saying the same things. I could just as easily say I've played it, repeat a few things I've read others say, and no one would know the difference.
'course, you could say the same thing of those praising it.
Point is...
One thing I've noticed in my time here is that "honesty" isn't held in very high regard for many people.
The problem is the NDA. In all fairness it should have been lifted by now so people could give more feedback for those interesting on making an informed decision with regards to both it's achievements and flaws in making a purchase. The ability to buy the game is now available, yet people are still not allowed to mention anything pertaining to experiences relevant to discussions.
Using one of the posters analogy of bicycles, lets say some vendor would advertise that in order for everyone to get proper quality maintained bicycles and some upgrades in the future you are required to pay them an "insurance" every month.
Ok, fine with that. That justifies the fee and there's no problem with that.
Now when you go get your bike, there's a surprise. All bikes are complete according to the vendor specs, the catch is that the bikes now come with crappy brakes by default, that weren't in the original spec.
For an extra fee can buy the better brakes. You feel a bit crappy about it but who doesn't want better brakes, right?
Wait till the vendor further down the line tells you that you have to pay for the seat. Enjoy the bumpy road.
Jokes aside, Zenimax is doing a plain cash-grab and is already contradicting what was advertised by Firor.
The new race is the 1st pay-wall , most likely of many to come if peeps swallow this one.
Digital Box + Monthly Fee + Content Pay-wall is really pushing the envelope.
Sorry but if you guys can't seem to grasp this, all hope is lost.
Pretty much right. I'm not planning on playing the imperial, but if I purchase the CE I want everything to be exclusive fluff. Not actual content that forces the people who want to play their favorite race to pay 20 bucks extra. And Imperial is a pretty popular race in TES.
Thing is, that it also contains convenience items such as a free horse and free rings of Mara which are both two very expensive items. The horse alone have been announced to cost about 15 000 septims.
Cash shop needs to be a non-tolerant zone. Either you take part of it or you don't. You can't offer extra content "Upgrades" if you're already paying for the extra monthly content with your subscription. And that's where our trust comes in. If we can't trust them to refuse all kinds of "extra" content, how can we trust them that they won't keep adding more of it? Just like the bike seat example you posed.
While I'm not a fan of gating content behind a DLC. That is a HORRIBLE analogy.
You are correct, it is a horrible analogy. I was just aboout to write the same as you but you beat me to it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?
This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.
So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.
Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.
Actually, OP the developers themselves claimed they went with the subscription model in order to allow players access to all content without additional "pay walls" to pass point X or acquire item Y in game. The cash shop was supposed to be for vanity items and we see how that worked out. These two preorder bonuses make them look hypocritical and at a future point if not immediately at start we know they will be up for sale. I am wondering if this option was of their own design, something the publisher forced on them in a cash grab, or a panic reaction to the feedback they received throughout beta testing? Considering the aim of your thread I will only mention if not dwell on the fact that these two "bonuses" go completely against the ideas of faction pride and faction value the developer stated that they wanted to establish for good AV3 PVP (the entire focus of end game) and proceeds to give them another shiner.
Oh they will make money by doing this. But I no longer believe how much money a game makes represents how good it is. And when you suddenly contradict your own stated core play values and ideas to make money in a cash grab you ruin your own reputation. I no longer trust... Just look at these forums man. Count the threads and comments on this subject. I am not the only one that feels that way.
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.
What in the Sam hell are you talking about? You pay the sub and you get the game and the content for your character. The fact they're giving a race as a preorder item is no different then every game in the know world that gives free items/pets/mounts as bonuses to preorder. Its just note of that "I want everything" mentality that's ruining games to begin with. Why can't people be happy just playing the damn game? Everyone is always worried about what someone else has. Its like saying, hey! I pay a sub and I want that armor. Since I pay, I should get it as its content. Such bullshit.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
thank you.
'entitlement' has become the latest fad word from a certain propagand...i mean news outlet. i always hear Inigo Montoya when i see the word entitlement used.
it is in the nature of capitalism to create 'whiners'. why? because that's how the market works. people don't like something so they complain until a product or service gets changed or another is provided.
instead this guy wants you to not only stop feeling 'entitled' but he wants you to grind the wheels of capitalism's progress to a halt. 'just take what they give you or shut up,' is probably one of the more anticapitalist attitudes you can have.
where else in history have we heard that attitude? i dunno Stalinist Russia comes to mind where you have limited access to a limited set of choices in products or services. oh, and complainers end up in the gulags. Adam Smith is rolling over in his grave every time one of these uneducated bozos opens their mouth.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If you guys want to take if up the rear from a big company be my guest. I know all my friends have lost all interest in this game and will be taking our money elsewhere. It's a shame because ESO is actually a really fun game, but I'm not supporting bad business.
There's only 2 MMO left that do the sub right; FFXIV and EVE. They are also two of the more stable MMO released. ESO could share the same success if they stuck to their motto instead of switching things up last minute.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience. 'cause everyone thinks they're right, And nobody thinks that there just might Be more than one road to our final destination--
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
thank you.
'entitlement' has become the latest fad word from a certain propagand...i mean news outlet. i always hear Inigo Montoya when i see the word entitlement used.
it is in the nature of capitalism to create 'whiners'. why? because that's how the market works. people don't like something so they complain until a product or service gets changed or another is provided.
instead this guy wants you to not only stop feeling 'entitled' but he wants you to grind the wheels of capitalism's progress to a halt. 'just take what they give you or shut up,' is probably one of the more anticapitalist attitudes you can have.
where else in history have we heard that attitude? i dunno Stalinist Russia comes to mind where you have limited access to a limited set of choices in products or services. oh, and complainers end up in the gulags. Adam Smith is rolling over in his grave every time one of these uneducated bozos opens their mouth.
You're confusing Consumerism with Capitalism. Consumerists whine and hope for change. Capitalism is simpler: buy / do not buy... let your money do the talking.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Remember, every technique has a few early adopters. The whole free-to-play thing (here, in the west) was jumpstarted by Turbine with LOTRO, and people predicted its swift demise and all the pay-to-win stuff, but it didn't seem to happen because they wanted a reasonable ROI, not a golden goose.
I suspect their plan is to grab as much cash as they can during the first year, to make the investors happy, and then when the inevitable decline starts, they'll drop the subscription and already have everything in place for the cash shop, without having to take things away from people (since they already bought them, or didn't).
It makes me half hope it DOES flop, because it's a poorly thought out, short term business model that I'd hate to see other titles embrace. The subscription model provides a nice predictable level of income, and is fantastic if you don't insist on having a bazillion players. Look at EVE-Online. Consider how much extra capital CCP had with a mere 250K subscribers... enough to buy out White Wolf and ramp up two more development teams.
Pretty much right. I'm not planning on playing the imperial, but if I purchase the CE I want everything to be exclusive fluff. Not actual content that forces the people who want to play their favorite race to pay 20 bucks extra. And Imperial is a pretty popular race in TES.
Thing is, that it also contains convenience items such as a free horse and free rings of Mara which are both two very expensive items. The horse alone have been announced to cost about 15 000 septims.
Cash shop needs to be a non-tolerant zone. Either you take part of it or you don't. You can't offer extra content "Upgrades" if you're already paying for the extra monthly content with your subscription. And that's where our trust comes in. If we can't trust them to refuse all kinds of "extra" content, how can we trust them that they won't keep adding more of it? Just like the bike seat example you posed.
With DDO actually; they later announced they would be converting their other title; LOTRO as well because they liked the results they were getting with DDO's payment model.
Credit where credit is due.
Carry on!
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I give it 3-6 months before the exodus begins, and people get bored of the game after they find out there is no longevity to this game, reason being they have been hiding behind their NDA and other than weekend tests I have not heard of one single person actually in a proper alpha or beta test program where adequate testing can be done. It sends up red flags when they go to great lengths to hide their game like they don't really feel confident about their game. And they know it perhaps..kinda like TOR found out after people reached the cap and found there wasnt nothing to do.
There is fair amount of the single player ES variety feels that the gameplay that made ES popular is sorely lacking in ESO and I felt the same way as they are pushing voice acting and story, ES games once again werent popular cause of stories it was gameplay. TOR tried this as well and people fled the game, now its F2P is it doing well now ? For the moment yes, most of them f2p players that play what they want and when they get bored and leave...it was compelling enough to play thru 1 time, after that the rest was a trainwreck for content , that other games do better if your into the whole raid or die or pvp in a shoebox.
Paying for stock races that's been in offline games since Morrowind is a non-starter, though.
That's the definition of a money grab -- charge extra for something already enjoyed as a whole package in the same franchise, but in another venture.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Looks like it. I wouldn't have cared as much if it wasn't for their very conspicuous U-Turn from "Faction Pride" and "No paygates". It's rather alarming.
I like the rhetoric about how Preorder bonuses = cash shop.. people really are desperate to smear ESO.
haters gonna hate, Im gonna enjoy the game along with many others
Its sad to see the ignorant fanboys, who defends obvious bad buisness practice even though, it actully hurts their game and their genre of gaming(i presume you like mmos). Yes, exclusive stuff has always been in a CE, but never in this form or shape, this is a NEW pratice, and its GREEDY, and its wrong. If you buy the game 1 month after release, and you pay the sub, you wont have acces to the full game, and that is WRONG. When you buy the game you should have acces to all the content of the game, and not be restricted. Yelling about this now is a good thing for everyone, cause if people dont, other games will do the same and this genre(mmo's), will die even faster.
no idea what about OP talking
I am ok with monthly sub but not with bad games or P2W( nothing is F2P) games
1. I am not a fanboy. I actually have never overplayed an elder scrolls game because there is not enough combat compared to running around.
2. People wanted to go to any alliance, the company gave that to us... how is that bad practice?
3. The company's main goal is to make revenue to earn a profit, they charge more for a collectors edition... seems reasonable.
4. People who buy the collectors edition receive extra (like all games offer)... seems normal.
5. Grow up pay the $20 more or quitchurrbitchin.
You dont understand it correctly. Being able to play imperial have nothing to do with preordering.
Pre-order: you get the explorer pack free
Buy CE: get the CE stuff, most important of those are the new race - imperials
At any time you can upgrade your account to a CE. This means you can buy a race for 20$.
How is paying extra, besides the boxprice and monthly fee, NOT a cash shop?
And I can assure you the explorer pack will also be availible in the cash shop shortly after release.
While I'm not a fan of gating content behind a DLC. That is a HORRIBLE analogy.
You're bike analogy is putting a price tag on things that are not only required for safety reasons, but are also features of the product that you cannot use properly without.
A new race (which does nothing special) is not a requirement to join the game. Should it be available to everyone? Yes, I think so. But it is hardly the same as giving people crap breaks unless they spend an extra 20$.
A more fitting analogy would be if you bought a bike, and asked them if you could get it in black. The manufacturer says no, that's not available. Then when you go to purchase the bike, they say 'we can give you this in black, but it'll cost you an extra 20$'.
That is much closer to the reality of what is going on. Is it a crap business practice? Yes, I think so. But way too many people are taking what is a fairly minor grievance, and running to the moon with it. Not to mention the number of these threads being made by people who, until JUST recently, showed absolutely no interest in playing the game & thought it was garbage.
Well, for starters, I'd say "90%" is an exaggeration. There's been plenty of positive feed back as well - considerably more than just 10%. But then, people just like to pick large numbers out of the blue and throw them around as though they're fact.
That stated, even giving them the "90%" bit... We don't even know what % of those people actually played the game at all. Most of the complaints I see are basically people saying the same things. I could just as easily say I've played it, repeat a few things I've read others say, and no one would know the difference.
'course, you could say the same thing of those praising it.
Point is...
One thing I've noticed in my time here is that "honesty" isn't held in very high regard for many people.
1) I'm not sure where you're seeing all these 'ignorant fanboys'. Most of these threads are flooded with haters, not fanboys.
2) I agree that part of what is being added to the CE is in poor taste, and should either be re-worded, modified, removed, clarified, or made available to everyone.
3) Zenimax adding a crappy last-minute CE decision doesn't make the game automatically trash. Most of those 'fanboys' have only been saying that the game is actually better than the 100s of haters on these forums have been trying to campaign since the game has been in alpha.
There's a simple solution to this issue. DON'T buy the pre-order. Simple as that. This is not the only company that has tried something like this, nor is this a new thing that has happened. EA has been getting away with this crap for years. It's not surprising that other companies are going to want to see if they can do the same.
Personally, I'm going to wait and see what happens. I'm not going to buy the CE, and will likely pass on the pre-order at this point. I will continue to beta test and if the game keeps going the way it's been going (PR crap aside), I will likely be playing this title anyway. It's a much better game than most people are giving it credit for, and while this kinda marketting stuff isn't helping, people are buying way too much into the negative hype surrounding this game, before even giving the game a fair shot.
WoW is a sub only game with a cash shop, so the answer no.
The problem is the NDA. In all fairness it should have been lifted by now so people could give more feedback for those interesting on making an informed decision with regards to both it's achievements and flaws in making a purchase.
The ability to buy the game is now available, yet people are still not allowed to mention anything pertaining to experiences relevant to discussions.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
In the words of Tity Boi AKA 2 Chainz: "Truuuuuuu."
You are correct, it is a horrible analogy. I was just aboout to write the same as you but you beat me to it.
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Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Actually, OP the developers themselves claimed they went with the subscription model in order to allow players access to all content without additional "pay walls" to pass point X or acquire item Y in game. The cash shop was supposed to be for vanity items and we see how that worked out. These two preorder bonuses make them look hypocritical and at a future point if not immediately at start we know they will be up for sale. I am wondering if this option was of their own design, something the publisher forced on them in a cash grab, or a panic reaction to the feedback they received throughout beta testing? Considering the aim of your thread I will only mention if not dwell on the fact that these two "bonuses" go completely against the ideas of faction pride and faction value the developer stated that they wanted to establish for good AV3 PVP (the entire focus of end game) and proceeds to give them another shiner.
Oh they will make money by doing this. But I no longer believe how much money a game makes represents how good it is. And when you suddenly contradict your own stated core play values and ideas to make money in a cash grab you ruin your own reputation. I no longer trust... Just look at these forums man. Count the threads and comments on this subject. I am not the only one that feels that way.
What in the Sam hell are you talking about? You pay the sub and you get the game and the content for your character. The fact they're giving a race as a preorder item is no different then every game in the know world that gives free items/pets/mounts as bonuses to preorder. Its just note of that "I want everything" mentality that's ruining games to begin with. Why can't people be happy just playing the damn game? Everyone is always worried about what someone else has. Its like saying, hey! I pay a sub and I want that armor. Since I pay, I should get it as its content. Such bullshit.First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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thank you.
'entitlement' has become the latest fad word from a certain propagand...i mean news outlet. i always hear Inigo Montoya when i see the word entitlement used.
it is in the nature of capitalism to create 'whiners'. why? because that's how the market works. people don't like something so they complain until a product or service gets changed or another is provided.
instead this guy wants you to not only stop feeling 'entitled' but he wants you to grind the wheels of capitalism's progress to a halt. 'just take what they give you or shut up,' is probably one of the more anticapitalist attitudes you can have.
where else in history have we heard that attitude? i dunno Stalinist Russia comes to mind where you have limited access to a limited set of choices in products or services. oh, and complainers end up in the gulags. Adam Smith is rolling over in his grave every time one of these uneducated bozos opens their mouth.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If you guys want to take if up the rear from a big company be my guest. I know all my friends have lost all interest in this game and will be taking our money elsewhere. It's a shame because ESO is actually a really fun game, but I'm not supporting bad business.
There's only 2 MMO left that do the sub right; FFXIV and EVE. They are also two of the more stable MMO released. ESO could share the same success if they stuck to their motto instead of switching things up last minute.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
You're confusing Consumerism with Capitalism. Consumerists whine and hope for change. Capitalism is simpler: buy / do not buy... let your money do the talking.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED