With the recent announcement made by ZeniMax regarding its upcoming title, The Elder Scrolls Online, it has become evident that companies are making use of methods that I personally believe to be entirely disrespectful to the gaming populace that invests money into this form of entertainment. I simply can't fathom how they believe charging $80 is fair in order to experience all the game has to offer, especially considering it charges $15 monthly with its subscription model, and will most likely have future expansions that cost $40. In fact, if they are charging an additional $20 for a new race, what then becomes the point of charging a subscription fee? Not only is this setting a precedent for others to begin charging more for a complete game, it is confirming that content, like additional races, will be present in The Elder Scrolls Online cash-shop instead of being provided as updates for paying a subscription.
Am I advocating simply not purchasing the game? No, The Elder Scrolls Online has its flaws and merits just like any other title and every factor must be considered when deciding whether or not to purchase it. However, I do believe that unless gamers want $80 (this is merely a symbolic value) for a complete game to become the norm, then at least some form of complaint from the media and from the customers themselves must be made regarding the absurdity of this.
I agree with your comment and think a smaller part will jump the ship. But not only because of the charges but because of the previous promised Faction War and suddenly the new race mixes. That takes away immersion for Faction Wars if people looking for a certain standard.
But overall, the worst what companies and consumer did and where both did go to far is actually Free to Play games with an ingame cash shop. Games which feel like a Slot Machine instead of a game, a Slot Machine Game without much soul and often a bad community.
The announced monthly sub is actually one of the reason why this game did wake my interests. I see it still positive.
By the way, the next planned standard distribution for games could be looking like this:
* Box sale > monthly sub > change into F2P or adding an additional cash shop either ingame or on a webpage.
This is actually worrying if this would be a new trend....
NCSOFT announced Wildstar with a sub aswell, after watching the history of NCSOFT games I have doubts and difficulties to trust them because they are already into microtransaction games since a longer time.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
yeah .. i really don't understand the rant ... people are talking as if companies are taking their babies away. We are just talking about games. If one does not work for you for whatever reasons, do something else!
There are good tv, good movies, good novels, good comics ..... no devs owe anyone a game that they have to like, at a price or business model that they like.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
yeah .. i really don't understand the rant ... people are talking as if companies are taking their babies away. We are just talking about games. If one does not work for you for whatever reasons, do something else!
There are good tv, good movies, good novels, good comics ..... no devs owe anyone a game that they have to like, at a price or business model that they like.
If your only objective is to ridicule or downplay my thread, I see no purpose in you even participating in it. Unless you have some meaningful contribution to the discussion at hand, I suggest you keep your snide comments to yourself as they do good to no one. I'm surprised I have to tell this to a 49 year old...
The announced monthly sub is actually one of the reason why this game did wake my interests. I see it still positive.
Lol .. you play a business model, instead of a game?
The game content itself is of course important, but If this game would be announced as a F2P game with an ingame cash shop it would probably not wake my interest that much.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
yeah .. i really don't understand the rant ... people are talking as if companies are taking their babies away. We are just talking about games. If one does not work for you for whatever reasons, do something else!
There are good tv, good movies, good novels, good comics ..... no devs owe anyone a game that they have to like, at a price or business model that they like.
If your only objective is to ridicule or downplay my thread, I see no purpose in you even participating in it. Unless you have some meaningful contribution to the discussion at hand, I suggest you keep your snide comments to yourself as they do good to no one. I'm surprised I have to tell this to a 49 year old...
Because he's not trying to down play or ridicule you, if you are an adult as you make it seem , then the simplest thing to do in this situation is..Don't buy the game.
Regardless on how you feel on the subject ,game companies will simply keep doing these kind of thing until the GENERAL PUBLIC no longer support it.
So yeah...alot of people do not understand why the whining about the pre order.
And yeah...if this kind of thing makes you angry enough to yell and preach, then maybe just maybe we all should all just take a step back and realise that it is just a video game.....nothing more.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
yeah .. i really don't understand the rant ... people are talking as if companies are taking their babies away. We are just talking about games. If one does not work for you for whatever reasons, do something else!
There are good tv, good movies, good novels, good comics ..... no devs owe anyone a game that they have to like, at a price or business model that they like.
If your only objective is to ridicule or downplay my thread, I see no purpose in you even participating in it. Unless you have some meaningful contribution to the discussion at hand, I suggest you keep your snide comments to yourself as they do good to no one. I'm surprised I have to tell this to a 49 year old...
Because he's not trying to down play or ridicule you, if you are an adult as you make it seem , then the simplest thing to do in this situation is..Don't buy the game.
Regardless on how you feel on the subject ,game companies will simply keep doing these kind of thing until the GENERAL PUBLIC no longer support it.
So yeah...alot of people do not understand why the whining about the pre order.
And yeah...if this kind of thing makes you angry enough to yell and preach, then maybe just maybe we all should all just take a step back and realise that it is just a video game.....nothing more.
If he does not understand that "doing something else" is a meaningful point of discussion, then he took MMORPG gaming too seriously, and cannot contemplate another point of view.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
yeah .. i really don't understand the rant ... people are talking as if companies are taking their babies away. We are just talking about games. If one does not work for you for whatever reasons, do something else!
There are good tv, good movies, good novels, good comics ..... no devs owe anyone a game that they have to like, at a price or business model that they like.
If your only objective is to ridicule or downplay my thread, I see no purpose in you even participating in it. Unless you have some meaningful contribution to the discussion at hand, I suggest you keep your snide comments to yourself as they do good to no one. I'm surprised I have to tell this to a 49 year old...
To be fair, he didn't actually ridicule your thread. There is one hyperbole (correctly used as rhetoric device in this case) in there and he continues with the matching solid argument.
Compared to some other posts in your thread, this is nothing.
There are posts in here that consist of nothing but exaggerations, fallacies and cognitive biases, yet you don't call them out, simply because they are "on your side". (even though those are the posts that are really hurting your thread)
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what he's saying.... DON'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Works both ways you see. Stop trying to stifle discussion about issues that MMO players are concerned about. If you aren't concerned about it, feel free to say so without being rude. Most people who think this is poor form probably won't play the game, but they don't want it to set an industry trend / standard for games they actually want to play in the future because apathetic MMO locusts don't care enough to stand up for their convictions.
Do we really need this thread with every new game that comes out?
Many years ago, this business had only one widely accepted business model: Box sales + fixed monthly subscription. But that ship has sailed... years ago.
People now get to choose not only between different games, but also between different business models. Taking offense at the business model someone chooses to support makes you seem like one of those idiots who become offended at someone else's choice of game to subscribe to, back in the "good old days".
The advice we can give you is also the same as what any of us would have told those idiots: if you don't like it, don't buy it, don't play it. In modern times, may I add don't spend money on that game's preorder, or in that game's cash shop.
I'm not touching ESO with a ten foot pole, but guess what? I'm ok with everyone else having their 99 bucks worth of Imperial fun in any faction (or whatever it is). And I'm sure all future ESO players are ok with me not joining them. Zenimax must be ok with that too, because they sure as hell didn't decide on a business model without surveying what kind of player base it would get them, so they already know that some Elder Scrolls fans, like me, are out. And they still decided to go for it, so either I'm not any kind of majority, or they are going to crash and burn soon. Either way there's nothing for me to find "unfair" there.
You may keep playing sub-based games, and others may not. Once you learn to live with it, everybody's happy.
A number of people had a problem with the way races and factions were set up.
A number of people didn't.
They provided an for those who would like it, and find it worth paying a little extra for.
For those who like the idea, they get to enjoy playing an Imperial.
For those who didn't care, they'll continue playing what they had likely intended to anyway.
No one loses.
Using myself as an example... I intend to play a Dark Elf and explore the lands of Morrowind. If the option to play an Imperial was in the game for everyone, I wouldn't be pursuing it regardless because I have no interest in it. Hence, I wouldn't be spending the extra money to unlock it. Likewise, whether others have that option or not means nothing to me. I'm playing the game the way I enjoy. So are they. More people playing as they enjoy = more people to play with = more fun for everyone. Everyone wins.
If the option did appeal to me and I felt it worthwhile, then I'd consider whether the additional cost was worth it. If it was, then I'd buy it, roll up an Imperial and decide where to start. Again.. I'm playing the game the way I enjoy. Others are playing the game the way they enjoy. Everyone wins.
It's not like you get some kind of power advantage over others with it. They're not selling power. It's not part of the "core game", or it would be included. They're selling some additional fluff. Same game.. Still gotta pick a race. Still gotta pick a faction. Still gotta get through the content like everyone else. You just get to do it in a different skin.
-shrug-
I could see why people are upset by it... I do agree their timing seems a bit off... But I don't see anything in the situation that would make it a deal-breaker for me personally.
Don't be so rational, it doesn't belong here!
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what he's saying.... DON'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Works both ways you see. Stop trying to stifle discussion about issues that MMO players are concerned about. If you aren't concerned about it, feel free to say so without being rude. Most people who think this is poor form probably won't play the game, but they don't want it to set an industry trend / standard for games they actually want to play in the future because apathetic MMO locusts don't care enough to stand up for their convictions.
I agree his post was inappropiate and bad form.
That doesn't mean you should answer with fallacies though.
"apathetic MMO locusts"? Really? You point fingers at others while doing the same?
If you want to argue, post real arguments, not ad hominems.
Do we really need this thread with every new game that comes out?
Many years ago, this business had only one widely accepted business model: Box sales + fixed monthly subscription. But that ship has sailed... years ago.
People now get to choose not only between different games, but also between different business models. Taking offense at the business model someone chooses to support makes you seem like one of those idiots who become offended at someone else's choice of game to subscribe to, back in the "good old days".
The advice we can give you is also the same as what any of us would have told those idiots: if you don't like it, don't buy it, don't play it. In modern times, may I add don't spend money on that game's preorder, or in that game's cash shop.
I'm not touching ESO with a ten foot pole, but guess what? I'm ok with everyone else having their 99 bucks worth of Imperial fun in any faction (or whatever it is). And I'm sure all future ESO players are ok with me not joining them. Zenimax must be ok with that too, because they sure as hell didn't decide on a business model without surveying what kind of player base it would get them, so they already know that some Elder Scrolls fans, like me, are out. And they still decided to go for it, so either I'm not any kind of majority, or they are going to crash and burn soon. Either way there's nothing for me to find "unfair" there.
You may keep playing sub-based games, and others may not. Once you learn to live with it, everybody's happy.
Fully agree.
Besides the namecalling. That was uncalled for and just weakens your arguments.
People really need to understand that companies can't arbitrarily set prices. The market sets the prices. Not buying is how you can influence the process if you don't like the price they suggest.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what he's saying.... DON'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Works both ways you see. Stop trying to stifle discussion about issues that MMO players are concerned about. If you aren't concerned about it, feel free to say so without being rude. Most people who think this is poor form probably won't play the game, but they don't want it to set an industry trend / standard for games they actually want to play in the future because apathetic MMO locusts don't care enough to stand up for their convictions.
I agree his post was inappropiate and bad form.
That doesn't mean you should answer with fallacies though.
"apathetic MMO locusts"? Really? You point fingers at others while doing the same?
If you want to argue, post real arguments, not ad hominems.
It's insulting and it's hyperbole (thanks for teaching me that word too ) but is it really a fallacy? I know that once upon a time I could have been described as being just that and judging by my impressions of people on forums such as these and my understanding of initial playerbase followed by a sharp decline every major release I don't think I was alone. I wouldn't have liked it and it would have been an exaggeration but I don't think it's completely false.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what he's saying.... DON'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Works both ways you see. Stop trying to stifle discussion about issues that MMO players are concerned about. If you aren't concerned about it, feel free to say so without being rude. Most people who think this is poor form probably won't play the game, but they don't want it to set an industry trend / standard for games they actually want to play in the future because apathetic MMO locusts don't care enough to stand up for their convictions.
I agree his post was inappropiate and bad form.
That doesn't mean you should answer with fallacies though.
"apathetic MMO locusts"? Really? You point fingers at others while doing the same?
If you want to argue, post real arguments, not ad hominems.
My arguments have already been posted on the matter, this post was just based on my annoyance at people wanting to stop the discussion altogether by posting rude comments.
Regarding 'apathetic MMO locusts' ... how else would you describe the masses that descend on every new MMO, claim that it is faultless and that the whiners need to shut up, and then leave in droves months later? Seems like a pretty apt description of pretty much every single MMO launch since EQ2 / WoW. ESO will be no different.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what he's saying.... DON'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Works both ways you see. Stop trying to stifle discussion about issues that MMO players are concerned about. If you aren't concerned about it, feel free to say so without being rude. Most people who think this is poor form probably won't play the game, but they don't want it to set an industry trend / standard for games they actually want to play in the future because apathetic MMO locusts don't care enough to stand up for their convictions.
I agree his post was inappropiate and bad form.
That doesn't mean you should answer with fallacies though.
"apathetic MMO locusts"? Really? You point fingers at others while doing the same?
If you want to argue, post real arguments, not ad hominems.
It's insulting and it's hyperbole (thanks for teaching me that word too ) but is it really a fallacy? I know that once upon a time I could have been described as being just that and judging by my impressions of people on forums such as these and my understanding of initial playerbase followed by a sharp decline every major release I don't think I was alone. I wouldn't have liked it and it would have been an exaggeration but I don't think it's completely false.
Either way, I agree, people need to calm down.
He used the attack to weaken the counter-argument's side by attaching these negative traits to them. That's why I understood it as fallacy.
If he is just namecalling for the namecalling's sake without having it influence the arguments/discussion, then I agree it wouldn't be one.
My arguments have already been posted on the matter, this post was just based on my annoyance at people wanting to stop the discussion altogether by posting rude comments.
I totally agree to that part. I am annoyed too, hence my post frenzy.
We come here for good discussions not for an onslaught of attacks, cuss words and fallacies.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what he's saying.... DON'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Works both ways you see. Stop trying to stifle discussion about issues that MMO players are concerned about. If you aren't concerned about it, feel free to say so without being rude. Most people who think this is poor form probably won't play the game, but they don't want it to set an industry trend / standard for games they actually want to play in the future because apathetic MMO locusts don't care enough to stand up for their convictions.
I agree his post was inappropiate and bad form.
That doesn't mean you should answer with fallacies though.
"apathetic MMO locusts"? Really? You point fingers at others while doing the same?
If you want to argue, post real arguments, not ad hominems.
It's insulting and it's hyperbole (thanks for teaching me that word too ) but is it really a fallacy? I know that once upon a time I could have been described as being just that and judging by my impressions of people on forums such as these and my understanding of initial playerbase followed by a sharp decline every major release I don't think I was alone. I wouldn't have liked it and it would have been an exaggeration but I don't think it's completely false.
Either way, I agree, people need to calm down.
You used the attack to weaken the counter-argument's side by attaching these negative traits to them. That's why I understood it as fallacy.
If you are just namecalling for the namecalling's sake without having it influence the arguments/discussion, then I agree it wouldn't be one.
If I understood you wrong, then shame on me.
Well I'm not namecalling for namecalling sake. I didn't even use the word "locust". You were calling for a balanced discussion and I thought he had a point. I acknowledged it was hyperbole and that it was insulting and I didn't place myself completely above the insult. I just thought there was some truth in there and thought it worth exploring. I can understand why you may have thought I was trying to "weaken the counter argument" though and I'm not completely free of bias so there is no need for shame.
My arguments have already been posted on the matter, this post was just based on my annoyance at people wanting to stop the discussion altogether by posting rude comments.
I totally agree to that part. I am annoyed too, hence my post frenzy.
We come here for good discussions not for an onslaught of attacks, cuss words and fallacies.
Don't forget the paid shills. Well, I assume they are paid shills. You would have to be to completely ignore all reason and maintain illogical opinions that are detrimental to the consumer. I mean, they're consumers too. I'd think you'd have to be paid to sell out like that.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what he's saying.... DON'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Works both ways you see. Stop trying to stifle discussion about issues that MMO players are concerned about. If you aren't concerned about it, feel free to say so without being rude. Most people who think this is poor form probably won't play the game, but they don't want it to set an industry trend / standard for games they actually want to play in the future because apathetic MMO locusts don't care enough to stand up for their convictions.
I agree his post was inappropiate and bad form.
That doesn't mean you should answer with fallacies though.
"apathetic MMO locusts"? Really? You point fingers at others while doing the same?
If you want to argue, post real arguments, not ad hominems.
It's insulting and it's hyperbole (thanks for teaching me that word too ) but is it really a fallacy? I know that once upon a time I could have been described as being just that and judging by my impressions of people on forums such as these and my understanding of initial playerbase followed by a sharp decline every major release I don't think I was alone. I wouldn't have liked it and it would have been an exaggeration but I don't think it's completely false.
Either way, I agree, people need to calm down.
You used the attack to weaken the counter-argument's side by attaching these negative traits to them. That's why I understood it as fallacy.
If you are just namecalling for the namecalling's sake without having it influence the arguments/discussion, then I agree it wouldn't be one.
If I understood you wrong, then shame on me.
Well I'm not namecalling for namecalling sake. I didn't even use the word "locust". You were calling for a balanced discussion and I thought he had a point. I acknowledged it was hyperbole and that it was insulting and I didn't place myself completely above the insult. I just thought there was some truth in there and thought it worth exploring. I can understand why you may have thought I was trying to "weaken the counter argument" though and I'm not completely free of bias so there is no need for shame.
Yeah that was my bad, you were referring to my comment on someone else's post. I thought it was yours. Sorry.
After 15 years of MMO's one thing I've learned is that I have NEVER been happy if I've played the shit out of an open-beta and run my powergame on a new release. Of the 15 or so mmorpgs i've made my b*tch, all but a couple lasted the 2 month test. With age comes wisdom, and I THINK I may just sit out the release on ESO and give it a month or two before i bust my nut all over it. Every time I hit endgame I get dissapointed with the lack of vision. It's like they didn't know people would max out in the first week. Maybe I'll just give the company the benefit of the doubt this time, and expect that they don't know people are going to max out in a week and give them their buffer to come out with and end game pvp grind or pve that makes sense.
He used the attack to weaken the counter-argument's side by attaching these negative traits to them. That's why I understood it as fallacy.
If he is just namecalling for the namecalling's sake without having it influence the arguments/discussion, then I agree it wouldn't be one.
If I understood it wrong, then shame on me.
The MMO locust comment wasn't intended as an attack on Cephus' character, it was more of an observation of the industry as a whole. New game comes out with obvious flaws, some people try to point them out and get shut down by cries of 'Shut up and don't play if you don't like it!', then a few months down the track servers are closing and the same locusts have moved on to the next big thing.
These type of players aren't interested in sustainable MMO worlds, only in their own enjoyment for a few months, which is fine but it's not helpful for the industry in the long run.
Comments
Yeah, given the increasing popularity with f2p, how can anyone say there is inflation with a straight face?
I agree with your comment and think a smaller part will jump the ship. But not only because of the charges but because of the previous promised Faction War and suddenly the new race mixes. That takes away immersion for Faction Wars if people looking for a certain standard.
But overall, the worst what companies and consumer did and where both did go to far is actually Free to Play games with an ingame cash shop. Games which feel like a Slot Machine instead of a game, a Slot Machine Game without much soul and often a bad community.
The announced monthly sub is actually one of the reason why this game did wake my interests. I see it still positive.
By the way, the next planned standard distribution for games could be looking like this:
* Box sale > monthly sub > change into F2P or adding an additional cash shop either ingame or on a webpage.
This is actually worrying if this would be a new trend....
NCSOFT announced Wildstar with a sub aswell, after watching the history of NCSOFT games I have doubts and difficulties to trust them because they are already into microtransaction games since a longer time.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what they're doing... DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Lol .. you play a business model, instead of a game?
yeah .. i really don't understand the rant ... people are talking as if companies are taking their babies away. We are just talking about games. If one does not work for you for whatever reasons, do something else!
There are good tv, good movies, good novels, good comics ..... no devs owe anyone a game that they have to like, at a price or business model that they like.
If your only objective is to ridicule or downplay my thread, I see no purpose in you even participating in it. Unless you have some meaningful contribution to the discussion at hand, I suggest you keep your snide comments to yourself as they do good to no one. I'm surprised I have to tell this to a 49 year old...
The game content itself is of course important, but If this game would be announced as a F2P game with an ingame cash shop it would probably not wake my interest that much.
Exactly.
Because he's not trying to down play or ridicule you, if you are an adult as you make it seem , then the simplest thing to do in this situation is..Don't buy the game.
Regardless on how you feel on the subject ,game companies will simply keep doing these kind of thing until the GENERAL PUBLIC no longer support it.
So yeah...alot of people do not understand why the whining about the pre order.
And yeah...if this kind of thing makes you angry enough to yell and preach, then maybe just maybe we all should all just take a step back and realise that it is just a video game.....nothing more.
If he does not understand that "doing something else" is a meaningful point of discussion, then he took MMORPG gaming too seriously, and cannot contemplate another point of view.
To be fair, he didn't actually ridicule your thread. There is one hyperbole (correctly used as rhetoric device in this case) in there and he continues with the matching solid argument.
Compared to some other posts in your thread, this is nothing.
There are posts in here that consist of nothing but exaggerations, fallacies and cognitive biases, yet you don't call them out, simply because they are "on your side". (even though those are the posts that are really hurting your thread)
Show some integrity. Don't be totally biased.
It's quite simple. If you don't like what he's saying.... DON'T READ THE FUCKING THREAD!
Wow, it's simple when you think about it.
Works both ways you see. Stop trying to stifle discussion about issues that MMO players are concerned about. If you aren't concerned about it, feel free to say so without being rude. Most people who think this is poor form probably won't play the game, but they don't want it to set an industry trend / standard for games they actually want to play in the future because apathetic MMO locusts don't care enough to stand up for their convictions.
Do we really need this thread with every new game that comes out?
Many years ago, this business had only one widely accepted business model: Box sales + fixed monthly subscription. But that ship has sailed... years ago.
People now get to choose not only between different games, but also between different business models. Taking offense at the business model someone chooses to support makes you seem like one of those idiots who become offended at someone else's choice of game to subscribe to, back in the "good old days".
The advice we can give you is also the same as what any of us would have told those idiots: if you don't like it, don't buy it, don't play it. In modern times, may I add don't spend money on that game's preorder, or in that game's cash shop.
I'm not touching ESO with a ten foot pole, but guess what? I'm ok with everyone else having their 99 bucks worth of Imperial fun in any faction (or whatever it is). And I'm sure all future ESO players are ok with me not joining them. Zenimax must be ok with that too, because they sure as hell didn't decide on a business model without surveying what kind of player base it would get them, so they already know that some Elder Scrolls fans, like me, are out. And they still decided to go for it, so either I'm not any kind of majority, or they are going to crash and burn soon. Either way there's nothing for me to find "unfair" there.
You may keep playing sub-based games, and others may not. Once you learn to live with it, everybody's happy.
Don't be so rational, it doesn't belong here!
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I agree his post was inappropiate and bad form.
That doesn't mean you should answer with fallacies though.
"apathetic MMO locusts"? Really? You point fingers at others while doing the same?
If you want to argue, post real arguments, not ad hominems.
Fully agree.
Besides the namecalling. That was uncalled for and just weakens your arguments.
People really need to understand that companies can't arbitrarily set prices. The market sets the prices. Not buying is how you can influence the process if you don't like the price they suggest.
It's insulting and it's hyperbole (thanks for teaching me that word too
) but is it really a fallacy? I know that once upon a time I could have been described as being just that and judging by my impressions of people on forums such as these and my understanding of initial playerbase followed by a sharp decline every major release I don't think I was alone. I wouldn't have liked it and it would have been an exaggeration but I don't think it's completely false.
Either way, I agree, people need to calm down.
My arguments have already been posted on the matter, this post was just based on my annoyance at people wanting to stop the discussion altogether by posting rude comments.
Regarding 'apathetic MMO locusts' ... how else would you describe the masses that descend on every new MMO, claim that it is faultless and that the whiners need to shut up, and then leave in droves months later? Seems like a pretty apt description of pretty much every single MMO launch since EQ2 / WoW. ESO will be no different.
He used the attack to weaken the counter-argument's side by attaching these negative traits to them. That's why I understood it as fallacy.
If he is just namecalling for the namecalling's sake without having it influence the arguments/discussion, then I agree it wouldn't be one.
If I understood it wrong, then shame on me.
I totally agree to that part. I am annoyed too, hence my post frenzy.
We come here for good discussions not for an onslaught of attacks, cuss words and fallacies.
Well I'm not namecalling for namecalling sake. I didn't even use the word "locust". You were calling for a balanced discussion and I thought he had a point. I acknowledged it was hyperbole and that it was insulting and I didn't place myself completely above the insult. I just thought there was some truth in there and thought it worth exploring. I can understand why you may have thought I was trying to "weaken the counter argument" though and I'm not completely free of bias so there is no need for shame.
Don't forget the paid shills. Well, I assume they are paid shills. You would have to be to completely ignore all reason and maintain illogical opinions that are detrimental to the consumer. I mean, they're consumers too. I'd think you'd have to be paid to sell out like that.
Yeah that was my bad, you were referring to my comment on someone else's post. I thought it was yours. Sorry.
Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)
The MMO locust comment wasn't intended as an attack on Cephus' character, it was more of an observation of the industry as a whole. New game comes out with obvious flaws, some people try to point them out and get shut down by cries of 'Shut up and don't play if you don't like it!', then a few months down the track servers are closing and the same locusts have moved on to the next big thing.
These type of players aren't interested in sustainable MMO worlds, only in their own enjoyment for a few months, which is fine but it's not helpful for the industry in the long run.