Nothing is wrong with paying for an alpha. What's wrong with EQ Landmark, is it's sorta like an alpha...of another alpha. Even the finished version of Landmark is just an alpha setting(or toolset) for EQNext as they are using stuff from Landmark to help build EQNext. All in all it looks boring as hell from watching the twitch stuff. But some people are into that considering Minecraft's popularity, hope you early access people are enjoying it though.
It looks on par or better for most Alphas from looking at it on twitch just now. As for purchasing Landmark for alpha/beta access, I have no problem with it, people have been saying they're willing to pay for beta access for years now, and they've been buying from people on ebay for years. This way the company gets the money from it, instead of someone that could possibly be shady on Ebay.
The question is why this game is still on Alpha when earlier last year Mr Smedley announced that the game would have launched in December 2013?
I think you've answered your own question, without realizing it. This Game wasn't in the works when Smedley gave that quote. It was the rise of the developer tools as a standalone product that pushed back the development of Everquest Next (which I would expect to be mid to late 2015 now). Hopefully for the EQ fans, Landmark will be a success so that they can staff up a little more for Next, as well as have a lot of content created by the Landmark players.
Nothing is wrong with paying for an alpha. What's wrong with EQ Landmark, is it's sorta like an alpha...of another alpha. Even the finished version of Landmark is just an alpha setting(or toolset) for EQNext as they are using stuff from Landmark to help build EQNext. All in all it looks boring as hell from watching the twitch stuff. But some people are into that considering Minecraft's popularity, hope you early access people are enjoying it though.
They're saying that they will let players have an control the NPC's with storybook AI at some point.
Remember how popular the Neverwinter games were? Now imagine getting to go from one DM's adventure to another without even switching servers (or continents). The potential of Landmark is mind boggling. Only time will tell if it reaches that potential, though.
Originally posted by SBFord Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen.
Then they shouldnt be charging 60$ and 100$ to access it.
Any flak early access games get is well deserved especially when they are charging so much for it.. People forget companies PAY people to test games in this state not the other way around.
While I don't agree with monetizing an alpha / beta, the benefits of doing so mean that only players who are genuinely interested in putting in an effort to help make the game will participate. They offer a 100% money back if you are no longer interested in the alpha, its not like other games where they keep the NDA up until launch and then refuse to refund money.
Considering there is no real financial risk to the user, you cant really complain about the state the game is in. This is a test for people who want to help shape the game, not whingers who want to play a finished game.
The fact that they are calling this an alpha means that they aren't about to launch it anytime soon, so settle down. If you want a finished game then wait until its finished and they say its ready for release.
Originally posted by syriinx "cash grab" may technically be accurate, but the more appropriate term is fundraising.
Its not really a cash grab if they are removing the NDA and offering full refunds to unsatisfied customers. A cash grab would be keeping a NDA up until launch and offering no refunds.
I'll just say this on the front of paying for betas.
I'm glad I still get paid to do the work some are paying to do.
This really reminds me of the Tom Sawyer movie (yeah i'm going there), He had people giving him items (barter system so money works here) for the "gratifaction" of painting the fence for him. It was originally meant to be his job/punishment for doing bad, but he managed to word it in such a way that it made them think they were missing out.
Once the work was all done he looked at it, then laughed. I'm not normally the cynical type but why does that look exactly what is going on here? You are giving them money to test a game (giving them items to paint their fence not yours, theirs) then when the work is all done they thank you and then behind closed doors laugh that you did the work for them, they got money for giving you the work and didn't have to train/pay or do anything beyond make the game (which they would have done anyway).
Really people get paid, yes paid not pay to do what you are willing to do. That just makes me shake my head. I know some of you are anxious but, seriously? you are going to pay for something that is normally a job that you get paid? You've got how this works all backwards (yes you the players, not SoE they got this all figured out).
As for weeding out the bad eggs on alphas there is this thing called oh i don't know, interviewing, references, checking for experience that could help you here, passion for a game will help but it will take you only so far, and that can work against you as well, as people who are passionate won't be as critical won't be as likely to slow down and make sure things work right. They will be too busy hashing it with friends, running the content and not properly testing it.
I'd say lets do this the right way and make sure when we are providing a service that we are getting the proper payment for it, but thats pointless I guess only satification of getting to play a game is now worth it for our end of the agreement, I'm just glad that my job hasn't figured that out yet and still thinks they need to pay me for my work. Course it's kind of against the law for now to do that in my field which doesn't seem to apply here strangely enough.
I don't care how good a game is, unless it's finished you either let me in for free (i'm okay with there being a chance of not getting in) or you pay me to test your unfinished (yes i know MMOs are never finished but there is a difference between these two things) game. I will never ever pay you to do something I should get paid for. yes theres a shift, and it needs to stop before people get this even more confused, it's fine to be in early development and help them, thats their reward for letting you in early they get extra feedback. You don't need to pay early to, thats going just too far.
Sorry for the long post but this is just baffling as heck and if anyone knows me I don't normally react this way to a company but they have people who buy this pack completely bamboozle into thinking this is how it should work..it doesn't work that way. Allow me to state this one final time. THEY PAY YOU FOR SERVICES RENDERED, NOT YOU PAY THEM. Really guys you are making companies think this is okay (and before you think i shouldn't get angry think again, as this sort of practice is somewhat dangerous and is the sort of thing that leads to affecting people who do this work for a living, people like me, so theres my motivation for fighting back, because it can affect my livelyhood)
My two bits on this subject.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Originally posted by Rockniss Been watching on twitch, I never considered the $100 pack, but watching on twitch, I can't believe how rough it is. I know it's alpha, but why would anyone want to pay for that?
Asks the guy who bought into the DayZ early access.
I'll just say this on the front of paying for betas.
I'm glad I still get paid to do the work some are paying to do.
This really reminds me of the Tom Sawyer movie (yeah i'm going there), He had people giving him items (barter system so money works here) for the "gratifaction" of painting the fence for him. It was originally meant to be his job/punishment for doing bad, but he managed to word it in such a way that it made them think they were missing out.
Once the work was all done he looked at it, then laughed. I'm not normally the cynical type but why does that look exactly what is going on here? You are giving them money to test a game (giving them items to paint their fence not yours, theirs) then when the work is all done they thank you and then behind closed doors laugh that you did the work for them, they got money for giving you the work and didn't have to train/pay or do anything beyond make the game (which they would have done anyway).
Really people get paid, yes paid not pay to do what you are willing to do. That just makes me shake my head. I know some of you are anxious but, seriously? you are going to pay for something that is normally a job that you get paid? You've got how this works all backwards (yes you the players, not SoE they got this all figured out).
As for weeding out the bad eggs on alphas there is this thing called oh i don't know, interviewing, references, checking for experience that could help you here, passion for a game will help but it will take you only so far, and that can work against you as well, as people who are passionate won't be as critical won't be as likely to slow down and make sure things work right. They will be too busy hashing it with friends, running the content and not properly testing it.
I'd say lets do this the right way and make sure when we are providing a service that we are getting the proper payment for it, but thats pointless I guess only satification of getting to play a game is now worth it for our end of the agreement, I'm just glad that my job hasn't figured that out yet and still thinks they need to pay me for my work. Course it's kind of against the law for now to do that in my field which doesn't seem to apply here strangely enough.
I don't care how good a game is, unless it's finished you either let me in for free (i'm okay with there being a chance of not getting in) or you pay me to test your unfinished (yes i know MMOs are never finished but there is a difference between these two things) game. I will never ever pay you to do something I should get paid for. yes theres a shift, and it needs to stop before people get this even more confused, it's fine to be in early development and help them, thats their reward for letting you in early they get extra feedback. You don't need to pay early to, thats going just too far.
Sorry for the long post but this is just baffling as heck and if anyone knows me I don't normally react this way to a company but they have people who buy this pack completely bamboozle into thinking this is how it should work..it doesn't work that way. Allow me to state this one final time. THEY PAY YOU FOR SERVICES RENDERED, NOT YOU PAY THEM. Really guys you are making companies think this is okay (and before you think i shouldn't get angry think again, as this sort of practice is somewhat dangerous and is the sort of thing that leads to affecting people who do this work for a living, people like me, so theres my motivation for fighting back, because it can affect my livelyhood)
My two bits on this subject.
You make good points of course. But do you really think just because SOE is having the Founders program...they aren't having other playtesters that are paid professionals ? I mean..do you really think they're going to leave it all up to a bunch of eager gamers with no real investment in reporting things ?
They'll still have playtesters, they'll have plenty of people GETTING PAID as you so eagerly pointed out working on the game. There is also no sign of this happening on EQN in the same manner.
I don't see how this is any different than beta tests ? Its earlier in the process sure, but same idea. Part of the whole gimmick of EQN has been from the announcement "A game made with you not for you" so it's not like this was a surprise.
What do you think is happening with all those Kickstarters ? Exact same thing, Shroud of the Avatar for example has been letting people into alpha testing for weekends at a time for $25+
If you're job is replaceable by a bunch of rapid fans who will *pay* to do it..it's not a very secure job to have.
You make good points of course. But do you really think just because SOE is having the Founders program...they aren't having other playtesters that are paid professionals ? I mean..do you really think they're going to leave it all up to a bunch of eager gamers with no real investment in reporting things ?
They'll still have playtesters, they'll have plenty of people GETTING PAID as you so eagerly pointed out working on the game. There is also no sign of this happening on EQN in the same manner.
I don't see how this is any different than beta tests ? Its earlier in the process sure, but same idea. Part of the whole gimmick of EQN has been from the announcement "A game made with you not for you" so it's not like this was a surprise.
What do you think is happening with all those Kickstarters ? Exact same thing, Shroud of the Avatar for example has been letting people into alpha testing for weekends at a time for $25+
If you're job is replaceable by a bunch of rapid fans who will *pay* to do it..it's not a very secure job to have.
No I don't believe they put their entire bug testing program into the hands of a few fans but that wasn't the point, the point was that you are "paying" to test a game for them when normally people get paid to do that. That isn't how that works. very indie companies get a slight pass here because funds really will be an issue, but only slight, those people should get something back for helping like say their name in the credits. Does that happen here if you pay some money and submit good bugs that you get something back other then extra game time?
I'm glad they still have people they are paying good on them for that, so why charge people to get so early of an access and submit bugs. Why not just let them in, download the program, test the game then restrict access once the thing goes live? it's not exactly like they need these testers if they've got their own, are they this low on funds where they need to get money from people? i hope not.
If you charge for any access prior to a games release I have a problem with it. I just don't follow those others games and I was this one kind of so it annoys me to see them engaging in such a practice. If they are doing it as well it's bad, just Sony tends to make bigger waves thus bigger return on the flak for such things. Note this is in reference to EQ landmark not the game proper, as I don't have info on what they are doing concerning that
As for the announcement you can make a game with people and get their suggestions without getting them to buy early access as well.
My job isn't easily replaceable I didn't say that. I said I don't want this to take president because then they could try and change what I do (because of fans) to some kind of volunteer work rather then actual employment where they get paid. Why pay these people when they are so willing to pay us for it? Don't think companies haven't tossed that idea around, they just think people would never go for it...hopefully they still think that way.
Besides fans like I stated wouldn't do as good of a job anyway so this hurts on another front thus this act has a two fold problem if people who don't understand how bug testing is supposed to work get involved and start messing things up. I have seen people under qualified attempt to do the job and it just makes everything worse. Do you really want this game to be subjected to the same thing? Why not take care, research these "testers" and make sure they have a decent background. Otherwise you invite people (who have enough money) to come in and start telling you want to do, and just makes everything a mess.
If this is just early access then the other people are right, this isn't really alpha it's just seeing the game early.It's just an excuse to say our game is even buggier then normal, but have fun. Appears access to these games is getting earlier and earlier, which would be fine if said people were interested in development and this lead anywhere other then playing the game sooner. If they have an impact on the game there needs to be stricter codes to make sure you aren't letting people in who can mess up the game, betas generally have the core design down, so if something goes wrong generally it just means the game might not work as well, but alphas can change the whole design of the game. Granted they have check and balances (at least I hope they do) but should they really be letting in just any oh people who pays money, Alphas should stay closed and should be hire only, stop letting people in just cause they pluck down a few bucks. This just makes me question if they are really serious about making it good (I really hope they are)
in short alphas should be handled by pros, you can let people in for free but only to make suggestions and never should you charge for this. Beta was questionable as it was, but alphas imo cross the line.
Note i played EQ for 5 years, EQ2 for a year and a half, i've played a majority of their games and I still think sony is a good company that makes good games but I don't like this practice of paying to get into a testing phase, i didn't like beta buy-ins I really really hate alpha buy-ins and don't think some companies won't be underhanded if they think people will pay a company X amount of money to work in game testing. My job is about as secure as you can get, i'm trusted, i get project after project, but lets not start entertaining the idea that you would pay for a service you normally got paid for. Thats like paying Starbucks to work for them for a few weeks.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Originally posted by SBFord Alpha, as we were told earlier this week at the press event, is a vertical slice of the game with -some- features, and even those aren't fully fleshed out. In addition, animations and whatnot are only 60% complete. If people are expecting even beta quality during alpha testing, they're going to be disappointed. This test is designed to get feedback from players and to work with the dev teams at a point where changes to the fundamental gameplay can still happen.
Then they shouldnt be charging 60$ and 100$ to access it.
Any flak early access games get is well deserved especially when they are charging so much for it.. People forget companies PAY people to test games in this state not the other way around.
Look you spend your money how you want and let other people spend their money how they see fit to spend it.
Originally posted by Rockniss Been watching on twitch, I never considered the $100 pack, but watching on twitch, I can't believe how rough it is. I know it's alpha, but why would anyone want to pay for that?
Asks the guy who bought into the DayZ early access.
Dayz is a playable game and I knew that before I bought it - Thanks for the laugh by the way, it's hilarious people would spend time digging through old post to see if I ever bought an "alpha"
I guess according to you Early Access and Alpha are the same thing?
This game is realy realy rough atm, but ive been playing it so much its not optimised at all or anything but what do u expect from an alpha but ill tel you what i realy realy amd loving it right now, it has so much potential to give and i cant wait to be helping the develoment along the way and cant wait to see this as a finished polish piece. Its realy excited in seeing the progress that will be happening from a gem in the rough to a full diamon of a game so keen to watch the development process while helping them
The Alpha itself appart from no polish and optimisation has had less issues than most beta i play which is also a great sign
Originally posted by Rockniss Been watching on twitch, I never considered the $100 pack, but watching on twitch, I can't believe how rough it is. I know it's alpha, but why would anyone want to pay for that?
Asks the guy who bought into the DayZ early access.
Dayz is a playable game and I knew that before I bought it - Thanks for the laugh by the way, it's hilarious people would spend time digging through old post to see if I ever bought an "alpha"
I guess according to you Early Access and Alpha are the same thing?
Landmark is also a playable game. And yes, in this case, Early Access and alpha are the same thing. DayZ is in alpha. I didn't have to dig. I remembered a post of yours. You got caught being a hypocrite. Deal with it.
I think any and all criticism this game receives is more than fair, however, given their willingness to charge for it. This model is no different than a kickstarter project for a development that's already been funded.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, especially for those fans who can't wait - but the devs have to be willing to expect a certain amount of grief and disdain to go along with it. Suddenly, the alphas are no longer there to provide a service for the devs, the alphas have paid for their privilege to be there and feel entitled to do their own thing, not provide feedback, and not be constructive in any way (though one might argue that behavior isn't all that far off in a traditional testing group to begin with).
Frankly, I hope they end up getting flooded with meaningless e-mails from their alpha base complaining about servers being down and the graphics not being turned up enough. That's the price they should be happy to pay for the extra breathing room their payed pre-finished model has bought them.
From 11pm until 6:00am when I went to bed I was getting 30 to 50 FPS and had a blast mining and building. hell i spent over an hour mining strait down then had to figure out how to mine up to get out lol. I built a 2 story house added torches, doors, tables, etc to it and that was really fun messing with different textures and mats.
I did have some crashes because the game isn't optimized in any way yet as the 5 min video that everyone has to watch explains when you first log in.
From 11pm until 6:00am when I went to bed I was getting 30 to 50 FPS and had a blast mining and building. hell i spent over an hour mining strait down then had to figure out how to mine up to get out lol. I built a 2 story house added torches, doors, tables, etc to it and that was really fun messing with different textures and mats.
I did have some crashes because the game isn't optimized in any way yet as the 5 min video that everyone has to watch explains when you first log in.
Sounds great, you know theres an options when you hit esc to "reset to ground level" right? so you dont have to dig out
Originally posted by Rockniss Been watching on twitch, I never considered the $100 pack, but watching on twitch, I can't believe how rough it is. I know it's alpha, but why would anyone want to pay for that?
Asks the guy who bought into the DayZ early access.
Dayz is a playable game and I knew that before I bought it - Thanks for the laugh by the way, it's hilarious people would spend time digging through old post to see if I ever bought an "alpha"
I guess according to you Early Access and Alpha are the same thing?
Landmark is also a playable game. And yes, in this case, Early Access and alpha are the same thing. DayZ is in alpha. I didn't have to dig. I remembered a post of yours. You got caught being a hypocrite. Deal with it.
Yes i think i participated in quite a few early access this year and almost every single one was an Alpha. WTF are you talking about Rockniss.
What your getting here is simply a game that is very close to the release finished product. Not much will change in 2-3 months.
As they said, roughly 60% of systems are in place. That means 40% aren't in place.
What kind of thing might not be in place? I suspect nearly all the coding is done at this point, with the exception of bug fixes.
However this is a new kind of game and certain aspects of tuning are likely still in flux such as the dimensions of claims, gaps between claims, claim upkeep, and minimum voxel size. These are things that hardcore players will really care about, and they have to make decisions before people start generating permanent content. They even brought these things up in the dev videos.
a game in development for years, is 60% completed and is going to be 'done' in a couple of more months?
i guess if a large chunk of that remaining 40% is the npc's, mobs, etc., that they already said wont be their, maybe...
40% of the systems are incomplete. That doesn't mean they haven't started on them.
Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor Yeah I was fortunate enough to download an hour long video from YouTube showcasing Landmark, but it got placed to private rather quickly. Good thing I had enough time to download it! It does look choppy and quite rough on some parts, but it also looks like fun.
Keep in mind that video recording software running in the background and overloading the PCI Express bus makes games more choppy than they really are.
Yeah games can take a hit depending on which software you are using. On the bright side they took off the NDA in less than 24 hours and Smedley replied to half a dozen tweets that they will accept refunds, no questions asked. Not too shabby!
Comments
Nothing is wrong with paying for an alpha. What's wrong with EQ Landmark, is it's sorta like an alpha...of another alpha. Even the finished version of Landmark is just an alpha setting(or toolset) for EQNext as they are using stuff from Landmark to help build EQNext. All in all it looks boring as hell from watching the twitch stuff. But some people are into that considering Minecraft's popularity, hope you early access people are enjoying it though.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I think you've answered your own question, without realizing it. This Game wasn't in the works when Smedley gave that quote. It was the rise of the developer tools as a standalone product that pushed back the development of Everquest Next (which I would expect to be mid to late 2015 now). Hopefully for the EQ fans, Landmark will be a success so that they can staff up a little more for Next, as well as have a lot of content created by the Landmark players.
They're saying that they will let players have an control the NPC's with storybook AI at some point.
Remember how popular the Neverwinter games were? Now imagine getting to go from one DM's adventure to another without even switching servers (or continents). The potential of Landmark is mind boggling. Only time will tell if it reaches that potential, though.
While I don't agree with monetizing an alpha / beta, the benefits of doing so mean that only players who are genuinely interested in putting in an effort to help make the game will participate. They offer a 100% money back if you are no longer interested in the alpha, its not like other games where they keep the NDA up until launch and then refuse to refund money.
Considering there is no real financial risk to the user, you cant really complain about the state the game is in. This is a test for people who want to help shape the game, not whingers who want to play a finished game.
The fact that they are calling this an alpha means that they aren't about to launch it anytime soon, so settle down. If you want a finished game then wait until its finished and they say its ready for release.
I had a good laugh at that too. 'I completely agree!' ... then proceeds to say the exact opposite.
Its not really a cash grab if they are removing the NDA and offering full refunds to unsatisfied customers. A cash grab would be keeping a NDA up until launch and offering no refunds.
I'll just say this on the front of paying for betas.
I'm glad I still get paid to do the work some are paying to do.
This really reminds me of the Tom Sawyer movie (yeah i'm going there), He had people giving him items (barter system so money works here) for the "gratifaction" of painting the fence for him. It was originally meant to be his job/punishment for doing bad, but he managed to word it in such a way that it made them think they were missing out.
Once the work was all done he looked at it, then laughed. I'm not normally the cynical type but why does that look exactly what is going on here? You are giving them money to test a game (giving them items to paint their fence not yours, theirs) then when the work is all done they thank you and then behind closed doors laugh that you did the work for them, they got money for giving you the work and didn't have to train/pay or do anything beyond make the game (which they would have done anyway).
Really people get paid, yes paid not pay to do what you are willing to do. That just makes me shake my head. I know some of you are anxious but, seriously? you are going to pay for something that is normally a job that you get paid? You've got how this works all backwards (yes you the players, not SoE they got this all figured out).
As for weeding out the bad eggs on alphas there is this thing called oh i don't know, interviewing, references, checking for experience that could help you here, passion for a game will help but it will take you only so far, and that can work against you as well, as people who are passionate won't be as critical won't be as likely to slow down and make sure things work right. They will be too busy hashing it with friends, running the content and not properly testing it.
I'd say lets do this the right way and make sure when we are providing a service that we are getting the proper payment for it, but thats pointless I guess only satification of getting to play a game is now worth it for our end of the agreement, I'm just glad that my job hasn't figured that out yet and still thinks they need to pay me for my work. Course it's kind of against the law for now to do that in my field which doesn't seem to apply here strangely enough.
I don't care how good a game is, unless it's finished you either let me in for free (i'm okay with there being a chance of not getting in) or you pay me to test your unfinished (yes i know MMOs are never finished but there is a difference between these two things) game. I will never ever pay you to do something I should get paid for. yes theres a shift, and it needs to stop before people get this even more confused, it's fine to be in early development and help them, thats their reward for letting you in early they get extra feedback. You don't need to pay early to, thats going just too far.
Sorry for the long post but this is just baffling as heck and if anyone knows me I don't normally react this way to a company but they have people who buy this pack completely bamboozle into thinking this is how it should work..it doesn't work that way. Allow me to state this one final time. THEY PAY YOU FOR SERVICES RENDERED, NOT YOU PAY THEM. Really guys you are making companies think this is okay (and before you think i shouldn't get angry think again, as this sort of practice is somewhat dangerous and is the sort of thing that leads to affecting people who do this work for a living, people like me, so theres my motivation for fighting back, because it can affect my livelyhood)
My two bits on this subject.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Asks the guy who bought into the DayZ early access.
You make good points of course. But do you really think just because SOE is having the Founders program...they aren't having other playtesters that are paid professionals ? I mean..do you really think they're going to leave it all up to a bunch of eager gamers with no real investment in reporting things ?
They'll still have playtesters, they'll have plenty of people GETTING PAID as you so eagerly pointed out working on the game. There is also no sign of this happening on EQN in the same manner.
I don't see how this is any different than beta tests ? Its earlier in the process sure, but same idea. Part of the whole gimmick of EQN has been from the announcement "A game made with you not for you" so it's not like this was a surprise.
What do you think is happening with all those Kickstarters ? Exact same thing, Shroud of the Avatar for example has been letting people into alpha testing for weekends at a time for $25+
If you're job is replaceable by a bunch of rapid fans who will *pay* to do it..it's not a very secure job to have.
No I don't believe they put their entire bug testing program into the hands of a few fans but that wasn't the point, the point was that you are "paying" to test a game for them when normally people get paid to do that. That isn't how that works. very indie companies get a slight pass here because funds really will be an issue, but only slight, those people should get something back for helping like say their name in the credits. Does that happen here if you pay some money and submit good bugs that you get something back other then extra game time?
I'm glad they still have people they are paying good on them for that, so why charge people to get so early of an access and submit bugs. Why not just let them in, download the program, test the game then restrict access once the thing goes live? it's not exactly like they need these testers if they've got their own, are they this low on funds where they need to get money from people? i hope not.
If you charge for any access prior to a games release I have a problem with it. I just don't follow those others games and I was this one kind of so it annoys me to see them engaging in such a practice. If they are doing it as well it's bad, just Sony tends to make bigger waves thus bigger return on the flak for such things. Note this is in reference to EQ landmark not the game proper, as I don't have info on what they are doing concerning that
As for the announcement you can make a game with people and get their suggestions without getting them to buy early access as well.
My job isn't easily replaceable I didn't say that. I said I don't want this to take president because then they could try and change what I do (because of fans) to some kind of volunteer work rather then actual employment where they get paid. Why pay these people when they are so willing to pay us for it? Don't think companies haven't tossed that idea around, they just think people would never go for it...hopefully they still think that way.
Besides fans like I stated wouldn't do as good of a job anyway so this hurts on another front thus this act has a two fold problem if people who don't understand how bug testing is supposed to work get involved and start messing things up. I have seen people under qualified attempt to do the job and it just makes everything worse. Do you really want this game to be subjected to the same thing? Why not take care, research these "testers" and make sure they have a decent background. Otherwise you invite people (who have enough money) to come in and start telling you want to do, and just makes everything a mess.
If this is just early access then the other people are right, this isn't really alpha it's just seeing the game early.It's just an excuse to say our game is even buggier then normal, but have fun. Appears access to these games is getting earlier and earlier, which would be fine if said people were interested in development and this lead anywhere other then playing the game sooner. If they have an impact on the game there needs to be stricter codes to make sure you aren't letting people in who can mess up the game, betas generally have the core design down, so if something goes wrong generally it just means the game might not work as well, but alphas can change the whole design of the game. Granted they have check and balances (at least I hope they do) but should they really be letting in just any oh people who pays money, Alphas should stay closed and should be hire only, stop letting people in just cause they pluck down a few bucks. This just makes me question if they are really serious about making it good (I really hope they are)
in short alphas should be handled by pros, you can let people in for free but only to make suggestions and never should you charge for this. Beta was questionable as it was, but alphas imo cross the line.
Note i played EQ for 5 years, EQ2 for a year and a half, i've played a majority of their games and I still think sony is a good company that makes good games but I don't like this practice of paying to get into a testing phase, i didn't like beta buy-ins I really really hate alpha buy-ins and don't think some companies won't be underhanded if they think people will pay a company X amount of money to work in game testing. My job is about as secure as you can get, i'm trusted, i get project after project, but lets not start entertaining the idea that you would pay for a service you normally got paid for. Thats like paying Starbucks to work for them for a few weeks.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Look you spend your money how you want and let other people spend their money how they see fit to spend it.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Dayz is a playable game and I knew that before I bought it - Thanks for the laugh by the way, it's hilarious people would spend time digging through old post to see if I ever bought an "alpha"
I guess according to you Early Access and Alpha are the same thing?
This game is realy realy rough atm, but ive been playing it so much
its not optimised at all or anything but what do u expect from an alpha but ill tel you what i realy realy amd loving it right now, it has so much potential to give and i cant wait to be helping the develoment along the way and cant wait to see this as a finished polish piece. Its realy excited in seeing the progress that will be happening from a gem in the rough to a full diamon of a game 
so keen to watch the development process while helping them 
The Alpha itself appart from no polish and optimisation has had less issues than most beta i play which is also a great sign
Landmark is also a playable game. And yes, in this case, Early Access and alpha are the same thing. DayZ is in alpha. I didn't have to dig. I remembered a post of yours. You got caught being a hypocrite. Deal with it.
Do we expect a polished product? No.
I think any and all criticism this game receives is more than fair, however, given their willingness to charge for it. This model is no different than a kickstarter project for a development that's already been funded.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, especially for those fans who can't wait - but the devs have to be willing to expect a certain amount of grief and disdain to go along with it. Suddenly, the alphas are no longer there to provide a service for the devs, the alphas have paid for their privilege to be there and feel entitled to do their own thing, not provide feedback, and not be constructive in any way (though one might argue that behavior isn't all that far off in a traditional testing group to begin with).
Frankly, I hope they end up getting flooded with meaningless e-mails from their alpha base complaining about servers being down and the graphics not being turned up enough. That's the price they should be happy to pay for the extra breathing room their payed pre-finished model has bought them.
From 11pm until 6:00am when I went to bed I was getting 30 to 50 FPS and had a blast mining and building. hell i spent over an hour mining strait down then had to figure out how to mine up to get out lol. I built a 2 story house added torches, doors, tables, etc to it and that was really fun messing with different textures and mats.
I did have some crashes because the game isn't optimized in any way yet as the 5 min video that everyone has to watch explains when you first log in.
Sounds great, you know theres an options when you hit esc to "reset to ground level" right? so you dont have to dig out
Yes i think i participated in quite a few early access this year and almost every single one was an Alpha. WTF are you talking about Rockniss.
40% of the systems are incomplete. That doesn't mean they haven't started on them.
I thought that was obvious.
Yeah games can take a hit depending on which software you are using. On the bright side they took off the NDA in less than 24 hours and Smedley replied to half a dozen tweets that they will accept refunds, no questions asked. Not too shabby!