"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I have been and am in the beta for this weekend, so I cannot offer any opinions based on previous experiences.
But I believe I can offer an opinion based on videos and presentations from the different conventions over the last year. If you watch some of these videos, which are on youtube, as well as the recent group content video released by ZOS, you can get a feel(by looking) of the combat.
It looks very clunky and unresponsive compared to other MMOS on the market, not to mention I saw little to no group synergy within the group. I also saw very little defined roles. Mobs attacking random group members and not the "tank"... I also saw a guy using a bow and casting fireballs. While that is very neat, fun and "cool". is it viable? Can you be an archer and cast fireballs and still put out quasi-optimal dps? Or be useful to the group? Sure you can spec it and say to yourself that you are useful, but are you really? Or would the sorcerer be better as casting a fireball since he is a pure caster...
Again, my opinions here and examples are based off of videos provided by ZOS, not from my beta experiences. From those videos, the combat and group experience looks dull compared to other alternatives on the MMO market.
Originally posted by RebelScum99 Anyone who says, "I played the game for a bit" and then gives their opinion on whether they liked it or not...I usually don't give their opinion much weight. I can't begin to tell you how many games I didn't enjoy after the first couple of hours and then completely changed my mind and began loving them after I was able to delve deeper into the game. Playing briefly in a beta doesn't qualify you to be able to really give a valid opinion of the game as a whole.
My personal experience is quite the opposite - the games I enjoyed playing long term were also the games I enjoyed first few levels. If the beginning of the game is lacklustre not many chances that the game will improve middle game - usually first levels are great and polished then you discover the lack of quests,grind,limited areas to explore (hello AOC !). Of course different people enjoy different things - one can be bored by beginning quests in a game while other can find them great and engaging.
For me, that's basically what it is. The tutorial, newbie zones really bore me to tears. Because they are almost universally linear. I really don't think you can have an accurate assessment of a game until you get out of those newb zones and into the world at-large. Once crafting kicks in. Once you have a variety of areas to choose to explore. Once your character progression starts to kick in. However, there are games that miss this point entirely by making that gameplay experience not really kick in until the level 20 or so. Those games rightfully lose a lot of people quickly.
For me, as long as there isn't anything game-breaking in terms of gameplay for those first 10 levels or so, I will usually withhold judgment until then. But I've even had some instances where the gameplay wasn't doing it for me, and then began to grow on me after a while. That's why I don't really listen much to the "I played beta for a bit" people when giving their opinions. Unless you are able to give specifics aside from "I didn't like it," I'm going to not take your opinion seriously.
Nice video Bill, it looks lovely, may play a bit rough around the edges but it will smooth out.
As always there is a few that are never happy and moan, but that's good too. It means they won't be around to complain 24/7, so a big thank you to them also.
Keep up the good work and let us see some RvR combat against Rob!
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
I have read a few of these from various websites. The common theme...bugs. Yeah I knows its still technically a beta. But really? less than 2 months from release in the big reveal for the press all but 1 or 2 of the beta experiences I read experienced 'game-breaking' bugs. You would think they would make sure these guys were playing on a build where stuff was stable. If they dont have such a build that is astonishing.
If this were a complete NDA drop this could be discussed a little more but since it isnt just knowing that these bugs exist is a bad sign for a lot of people.
Like I always say bugs are bugs but not fixing bugs is a major concern.
But basically none of these things have revealed anything most people didnt know. Sort of a bone I think for these websites that help promote and hype them.
People will gain a lot more on their own this weekend than these things will. Hopefully people go in and pay attention to what they see and then use it as a comparison going forward.
But it was refreshing to see that I didnt see any of these articles call his the best game they ever saw, which is really what I was expecting from most of them.
I liked your little preview, and you made some valid good and bad points, but....sheesh...you dodged a lot of things about the game that you could have covered since you can talk about levels 1-15. [mod edit]
Bad Stuff: The only thing that concerned me was what he said about the armour. The other points either did not bother me or like the phasing I see as a positive.
If there is a problem with bugs I am sure that will get highlighted. End game concerns me more than bugs. Bugs will get sorted, end game is a fine balancing act few MMOs do well.
Originally posted by Teala I liked your little preview, and you made some valid good and bad points, but....sheesh...you dodged a lot of things about the game that you could have covered since you can talk about levels 1-15. Since I am not an official game reporter I cannot make a list of my own good and bad(due to NDA), because really...there are some key things I think you neglected to bring up. But hey, Zenimax clearly only wants it to continue their little game of obfuscate the reality of the game. Did they have to pre-approve what you wrote?
Nope. But let's say you looked at my video... what stuck out to you? I will say we can't cover AVA until next week, but the cap for this week is level 15.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
I played the game in beta and am very glad to have done so because now i know I will never play this game again even if it was free to play. This is all I can say for now.
As seen on the videos at Quake Con I can tell you that Melee is NOT arcing attacks. The game is 100% Soft-lock targeting almost exactly like Neverwinter.
Rather funny really, release is just a few months away and beta's are still "weekend" and capped at 15. I only know of 2 weekends where you got a max level character for PvP testing.
Where are the mid to end game PvE tests? Only behind closed doors, and this late into beta. Come on people, wake up already.
To keep the bulk of PvE out of major testing, not cool at all, this game is going to have major bugs for so many months and will require major overhauls once more data is collected on grouped based content and the later game being hit with tons of people.
Either way, I don't buy into the hype as most major gaming sites make all games look good for advertising dollars, we were told about how great SWTOR and Tera was until a few months after release and the advertisements went away, then all the major flaws in designs were finally pointed out.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I am only a casual Elder Scrolls player but honestly as an MMO and gaming fan in general I am stoked for this game!!!
In skyrim I HATED the inventory setup, UI in general was weird, and after beating the game I didn't really care to jump back in.
ESO has a much better setup, and as for the bugs, MOST people complaining about bugs are the same people that loooove skyrim so I don't think they have any room to gripe about this games glitches, ALLLL Elder Scrolls games have stupid glitches, search on YouTube you will find hundreds of videos of said bugs.
yeah, this does smell of SWTOR. Big IP, big emphasis on voice overs, instanced. I may not pass entirely but I'm going to wait and see what people are saying before I decide to buy or not buy. There's kind of been a drought of new mmo lately, so if I purchase it might be more an act of gaming desperation than any endorsement.
I think Wildstar is looking much more interesting. The graphics are more cartoony but the game appears to have made an effort to interject character and humor. I'll probably get Wildstar day one.
Thank you for answering my question Bill, hopefully someday a company will make another mmo with open world,I don't mind cartoon graphics as long the game has a big open world to explore.
Originally posted by Entinerint ... I'm glad there are no loading screens between areas or anything but it's hardly the "go anywhere, do anything" of TES SP games, and don't tell me it HAS to be that way "cuz MMO" as there are plenty of MMOs that do not have directed, linear leveled zones.
But it seems there are loading screens between the areas . Speaking of TES features I would have liked to see in TESO - a world with no levels or where monsters lv with the player would be one of my favorites.
I'll get my money's worth out of the RPG part of the game I'm sure. I'm doubtful it can keep me long term, but then again there was only 2 MMORPG's ever made that could.
People will buy it an play it for the first few months just like every MMO then they will hop to whatever the next big thing is, that's the trend now......
The armor models in ESO are probably the biggest graphical letdown of an otherwise gorgeous game. I never had any issues with animations like some readers have, as I think they’re light years ahead of past TES games. But I will say that the armor is a step back. It’s all got this painted on look, except for helmet, shoulder pads, some hip and belt wear. That was passable in 2004’s MMOs, but in DX11 and with all the graphical upgrades this game has received… it’s just weird looking. I gather it’s probably to help ease the load of rendering in large-scale PVP, but if ArenaNet can figure out how do display their armor in WvW, I think Zenimax could too.
The biggest reason why i got turned off by the game. Asthetics are important to me. I don't mind it in games like WOW or LOTRO given their age but not going to accept in 2014..no way.
Yeah, I don't like the armor models either.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by RebelScum99 For me, that's basically what it is. The tutorial, newbie zones really bore me to tears. Because they are almost universally linear. I really don't think you can have an accurate assessment of a game until you get out of those newb zones and into the world at-large. Once crafting kicks in. Once you have a variety of areas to choose to explore. Once your character progression starts to kick in. However, there are games that miss this point entirely by making that gameplay experience not really kick in until the level 20 or so. Those games rightfully lose a lot of people quickly.
While I agree that the first few levels are linear,with not very interesting quests, a player can still get a good idea about rest of the game in terms of : character animations, graphics, how good is the music (some of us still listen to in game music) and other small things like emotes,being able to use furniture etc which show if developers care about making a world or just a game. So it is a good idea for companies to have a good start, with some impressive vistas and a polished player experience - I still remember entering Darnassus for the first time or meeting my dark elf mentor in Freeport. From my own experience when trying to get friends to play a mmo,first few hours in game were enough for them to buy it or give up, because the game didn't impressed them.
Bill I've had my issues with this website in the past but I will say you are one of the writers here that I still enjoy reading. You always try to provide solid information when you can with a balanced approach. Thanks for sharing this information. I will say that this game excites me and bums me out all at the same time. I think there are things that could be enjoyed in the game and it looks interesting to me, but there's the giant stink of the SWTOR experience that leaves me cautious about this game. Still not enough information available to make me WANT to pre-order. Probably going to sit this one out for a bit. Sadly as well, I've been in the wildstar beta for a while and the game is not for me. I'm still hoping somehow Archeage is coming and not a complete turd when it gets here.
From your review and video, it looks absolutely boring, and clunky, and phasing I'll never like. I just can't stand games with phasing. If an mmo doesn't grab me from the beginning within the first few levels, I pass it up ,move on, and never look back.
I totally and profoundly HATE the fact you are FORCED to solo story instances to the point it may be a deal breaker for me.
It brings back VERY bad TSW deja vus. The Secret World had the same, story instances, very tough and in half a year or so, I NEVER was able to do them. Had the the exact same experiences here now, and I totally loathe that. A MMo where you can't bring help into a dungeon or instance is just wrong. If that stays I am out.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Ice-Queen From your review and video, it looks absolutely boring, and clunky, and phasing I'll never like. I just can't stand games with phasing. If an mmo doesn't grab me from the beginning within the first few levels, I pass it up ,move on, and never look back.
Agreed, I've had this issue with a lot of MMO's in the past where they start slow and just don't capture my attention. Thankfully I stuck with Eve Online and was rewarded with an amazing game even though my first few days in it were boring as hell. I had the same issue with FF:ARR. That game never did grab me though.
Comments
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I have been and am in the beta for this weekend, so I cannot offer any opinions based on previous experiences.
But I believe I can offer an opinion based on videos and presentations from the different conventions over the last year. If you watch some of these videos, which are on youtube, as well as the recent group content video released by ZOS, you can get a feel(by looking) of the combat.
It looks very clunky and unresponsive compared to other MMOS on the market, not to mention I saw little to no group synergy within the group. I also saw very little defined roles. Mobs attacking random group members and not the "tank"... I also saw a guy using a bow and casting fireballs. While that is very neat, fun and "cool". is it viable? Can you be an archer and cast fireballs and still put out quasi-optimal dps? Or be useful to the group? Sure you can spec it and say to yourself that you are useful, but are you really? Or would the sorcerer be better as casting a fireball since he is a pure caster...
Again, my opinions here and examples are based off of videos provided by ZOS, not from my beta experiences. From those videos, the combat and group experience looks dull compared to other alternatives on the MMO market.
For me, that's basically what it is. The tutorial, newbie zones really bore me to tears. Because they are almost universally linear. I really don't think you can have an accurate assessment of a game until you get out of those newb zones and into the world at-large. Once crafting kicks in. Once you have a variety of areas to choose to explore. Once your character progression starts to kick in. However, there are games that miss this point entirely by making that gameplay experience not really kick in until the level 20 or so. Those games rightfully lose a lot of people quickly.
For me, as long as there isn't anything game-breaking in terms of gameplay for those first 10 levels or so, I will usually withhold judgment until then. But I've even had some instances where the gameplay wasn't doing it for me, and then began to grow on me after a while. That's why I don't really listen much to the "I played beta for a bit" people when giving their opinions. Unless you are able to give specifics aside from "I didn't like it," I'm going to not take your opinion seriously.
Nice video Bill, it looks lovely, may play a bit rough around the edges but it will smooth out.
As always there is a few that are never happy and moan, but that's good too. It means they won't be around to complain 24/7, so a big thank you to them also.
Keep up the good work and let us see some RvR combat against Rob!
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
It's TES, where BUGS are FEATURES!
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Bad Stuff: The only thing that concerned me was what he said about the armour. The other points either did not bother me or like the phasing I see as a positive.
If there is a problem with bugs I am sure that will get highlighted. End game concerns me more than bugs. Bugs will get sorted, end game is a fine balancing act few MMOs do well.
Nope. But let's say you looked at my video... what stuck out to you? I will say we can't cover AVA until next week, but the cap for this week is level 15.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
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As seen on the videos at Quake Con I can tell you that Melee is NOT arcing attacks. The game is 100% Soft-lock targeting almost exactly like Neverwinter.
Rather funny really, release is just a few months away and beta's are still "weekend" and capped at 15. I only know of 2 weekends where you got a max level character for PvP testing.
Where are the mid to end game PvE tests? Only behind closed doors, and this late into beta. Come on people, wake up already.
To keep the bulk of PvE out of major testing, not cool at all, this game is going to have major bugs for so many months and will require major overhauls once more data is collected on grouped based content and the later game being hit with tons of people.
Either way, I don't buy into the hype as most major gaming sites make all games look good for advertising dollars, we were told about how great SWTOR and Tera was until a few months after release and the advertisements went away, then all the major flaws in designs were finally pointed out.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
In skyrim I HATED the inventory setup, UI in general was weird, and after beating the game I didn't really care to jump back in.
ESO has a much better setup, and as for the bugs, MOST people complaining about bugs are the same people that loooove skyrim so I don't think they have any room to gripe about this games glitches, ALLLL Elder Scrolls games have stupid glitches, search on YouTube you will find hundreds of videos of said bugs.
Mystery Bounty
yeah, this does smell of SWTOR. Big IP, big emphasis on voice overs, instanced. I may not pass entirely but I'm going to wait and see what people are saying before I decide to buy or not buy. There's kind of been a drought of new mmo lately, so if I purchase it might be more an act of gaming desperation than any endorsement.
I think Wildstar is looking much more interesting. The graphics are more cartoony but the game appears to have made an effort to interject character and humor. I'll probably get Wildstar day one.
EQ I am interested about. We will see.
Thank you for answering my question Bill, hopefully someday a company will make another mmo with open world,I don't mind cartoon graphics as long the game has a big open world to explore.
But it seems there are loading screens between the areas . Speaking of TES features I would have liked to see in TESO - a world with no levels or where monsters lv with the player would be one of my favorites.
I'll try the game out:
I'll get my money's worth out of the RPG part of the game I'm sure. I'm doubtful it can keep me long term, but then again there was only 2 MMORPG's ever made that could.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Yeah, I don't like the armor models either.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
While I agree that the first few levels are linear,with not very interesting quests, a player can still get a good idea about rest of the game in terms of : character animations, graphics, how good is the music (some of us still listen to in game music) and other small things like emotes,being able to use furniture etc which show if developers care about making a world or just a game. So it is a good idea for companies to have a good start, with some impressive vistas and a polished player experience - I still remember entering Darnassus for the first time or meeting my dark elf mentor in Freeport.
From my own experience when trying to get friends to play a mmo,first few hours in game were enough for them to buy it or give up, because the game didn't impressed them.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I totally and profoundly HATE the fact you are FORCED to solo story instances to the point it may be a deal breaker for me.
It brings back VERY bad TSW deja vus. The Secret World had the same, story instances, very tough and in half a year or so, I NEVER was able to do them. Had the the exact same experiences here now, and I totally loathe that. A MMo where you can't bring help into a dungeon or instance is just wrong. If that stays I am out.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Agreed, I've had this issue with a lot of MMO's in the past where they start slow and just don't capture my attention. Thankfully I stuck with Eve Online and was rewarded with an amazing game even though my first few days in it were boring as hell. I had the same issue with FF:ARR. That game never did grab me though.