What is the deal with SWG?

Wallace007 · January 2006

Everybody keeps complaining the SWG lied to its customers. I'm fairly new to the MMORPG type game so I don't know what anybody is talking about. What happened?

DamonVile · January 2006

If you'd started on day one and quit, then came back now...you'd think you loaded the wrong game.

AgentMolder · January 2006

ya whats the deal with this game, i played the trial, it was pretty fun. Why are u guys complaining this much?

Kormac · January 2006

Check this out: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/325/gameID/6

That should give people an idea what the complaints are about.

Jackdog · January 2006

Originally posted by AgentMolder
ya whats the deal with this game, i played the trial, it was pretty fun. Why are u guys complaining this much?

Someone moved their cheese.

http://www.dymocks.com.au/ContentDynamic/Full_Details.asp?ISBN=0091816971

Obraik · January 2006

Originally posted by AgentMolder
ya whats the deal with this game, i played the trial, it was pretty fun. Why are u guys complaining this much?

If you found it fun, don't worry about it, what it matter what they think?

A number of vets don't like the fact the game up and changed from what it was. Either they don't like the new changes or they think the way LA and SOE went about it was wrong. For better or worse it has changed and it won't be changed back.

Plenty of people are still playing the game though, and they are for the most part having fun

Torak · January 2006

Someone moved their cheese.

http://www.dymocks.com.au/ContentDynamic/Full_Details.asp?ISBN=0091816971

LoL, awesome book. I use it in my classes.

Evelknievel · January 2006

Well if you never played SWG when it first came out, the game like he said, is'nt the same game
from 2003. If you were a subscriber from the golden era more and likely you arent goint to be playing
the new system since crafting is garbage now, all the things you acquired in the past 2 1/2 years
is useless, your character development been waxed to 9 professions instead of having 30+ professions
in the past and Jedi is a starting profession also Entertainers profession is useless now.

If your a Star Wars Junkie like I am, the game is'nt consistant with the Lucas Star Wars timeline.
Hence Revenge of the Sith thru Star Wars a New Hope. Now if they made the game 500 years
after Return of the Jedi, possibly this game would of had a different cliental and different outcome.

But enjoy the game for whats its worth I wouldnt dump to much time or money into this game
the way SOE is treating it. But if your in it for a quick fix of Star Wars, try KOTOR series or Battlegrounds.
Cause its free and you dont need to pay a monthly charge.

digriz · January 2006

I miss playing it, although i got the Trando poster before my Chars died, so my gaming was complete. (pointless post i know, but i want to see if my avatar loaded properly. Sorry)

Wakizashi · January 2006

Basically, they gave the game too much parity. Those w/o skill or determination now were on equal footing at all times with everyone else. Pity really.

*Gollum voice*

They ruins it! Stupid fat hobbit!

Elnator · January 2006

In a nutshell:
SWG was originally an XP based SKILL system that was completely open ended, allowed for maximum customization of, not only your LOOK to your character but also to what abilities your character would have. You had the ability to mix-match skills from any number of professions and make your character in almost any way you could immagine (with some minor limitations).

The CU didn't really change that other than to tack a level system on top of that to determine combat a little differently.

NGE, however, totally ripped the skill system out of the game and changed it from a SKILL system to a pure level grinder with no skill system whatsoever. They also eliminated several classes completely. On top of that you have no control over what skills you get now, AT ALL, they are force fed to you as you level, even more so than in many traditional games. Even EQ2 is more 'skill' oriented than SWG is now. WOW is much more 'skill' oriented than SWG is now. SWG is a pure level grind now with no skill system whatsoever.

On top of that they changed the combat from a traditional RPG style combat system to a wanna-be FPS combat system. If you play Battlefront II you'll see SORT of what they did to SWG's combat. It's very similar (but BF2 does it better).

The worst part of this complete re-make of the game was that it was pushed live without ANY prior notice whatsoever, literally days after the devs had promised fixes and changes to professions that no longer exist. In other words: They deliberately mis-led the customers into buying an expansion thinking the game was going to be improved, not completely tossed out the window in favor of an entirely new game. The only thing the same about Pre-NGE and post NGE is the graphics and some of the quests.

To add aggravation to the mix SOE implemented quest based advancement in that the only way to advance with any kind of regularity is to complete quests for XP. Problem is they only did the first 30 levels worth, all new quests. None of the old quests were modified to grant XP so after level 30 you are stuck.

Next aggravation: When they rolled NGE live they removed ROTW from the package. If NEW players want to play ROTW they get to pay extra for it (mind you the old "Total Experience" was $29 for SWG, JTL and ROTW. In NGE you got to pay $19.95 for SWG+JTL then another $25 for ROTW then another $30 for ToOW if you want it.

Kicker: The only other quests besides the first 30 levels are the last TEN levels in ToOW which are CL80-90 quests so players could quest to 30 then grind mindlessly for ages to get a few measly xp. Literally the grind would have taken 10-20x longer than pre-NGE to get to CL80 if you tried to grind it. SOE wasn't done though... they were going to fix the pre-existing quests... and they did... in the ROTW expansion.

So now IF you buy ALL the expansions you get quest based content that will get you to CL90... but only if you buy the expansions... neat deal for SOE... now new players not on ly don't have a method to get SWG, JTL and ROTW together (which was available in JUNE and has been yanked from stores by SOE btw) if they want to advance at a decent rate they have to run out and fork out an additional $60 for expansions.

THAT is what players are mad about.

The game itself is "ok". Some like it, some don't... same as any other game. What SOE did was to RADICALLY Change an existing MMORPG with hundreds of thousands (250,000+) of subscribers from what they were paying for to a totally and completely different game. Then, on top of that, anyone NEW to the game gets to fork out roughly $80 for full functionality *before ANY monthly fees*.... if you want the full game and 1 month extra play after the first 30 days you're forking out nearly $100 within the first month alone.

What SOE did was wrong on many multiple different levels. I'm not arguing whether NGE is fun or not. For some folks it is. Others don't like it. What I'm pointing out is what got the players mad. Has nothing to do with whether the new method is fun or not. It has to do with the level of deceit and trechery SOE excercized in this rollout.

Elnator · January 2006

Double post... silly darn website.

Scaris · January 2006

Originally posted by Elnator
Double post... silly darn website.

well getting 2 is better then it getting eaten which seems to be my lot in life here. ::::04::

Elnator · January 2006

Originally posted by Fadeus
Originally posted by Elnator
Double post... silly darn website.

well getting 2 is better then it getting eaten which seems to be my lot in life here. ::::04::

Mozilla is your friend Mine never get eaten with Mozilla.... only with IE's craptastic self.

Enigma · January 2006

Originally posted by Wallace007
Everybody keeps complaining the SWG lied to its customers. I'm fairly new to the MMORPG type game so I don't know what anybody is talking about. What happened?

One of the main complaints is whether or not it was ethical to do what SOE did with the NGE. In my opinion it was very unethical. Actually, many developers from other companies cannot believe they did that (it's usually a no no to take an existing MMO and radically change it). Updates and patches and expansions is one thing. This is different.

Imagine having a creature handler character that you played with for about 11 months. Then you log on and your character is forced to change his profession to only 9 professions (where there use to be around 16 or so).

I dont care about the interface and all that stuff as much as the ethical practice they did. Whether the DEVs over at SWG want to publicly admit it or not, I know they're sitting in their offices thinking about the blunder they made.

Bottom line:

If you want to change a MMO to the point where it is a different game, make a sequal.

Scaris · January 2006

Originally posted by Elnator
Originally posted by Fadeus
Originally posted by Elnator
Double post... silly darn website.

well getting 2 is better then it getting eaten which seems to be my lot in life here. ::::04::

Mozilla is your friend Mine never get eaten with Mozilla.... only with IE's craptastic self.

Aha! touchee pussy cat! I am using mozilla, I never have the problem with IE (when I actually use it)

However I am running session saver so I can TRY to make firefox as much like opera as possible and it causes firefox to lose field data in the event of an error. I will say to you as I say to all programmers (since you suggested I use another product to counter the site design issues). Fix the product, don't ask the user to change his methods to make your application work. And even though this is a web based application, the errors here are getting rather apparently and actually a burden at this point.

Scaris · January 2006

Originally posted by En1Gma
One of the main complaints is whether or not it was ethical to do what SOE did with the NGE. In my opinion it was very unethical. Actually, many developers from other companies cannot believe they did that (it's usually a no no to take an existing MMO and radically change it). Updates and patches and expansions is one thing. This is different.

I have to chime in about this one thing. I will beleive many of the developers saw an opportunity to point out how bad SOE is and how they would never do that in the name of marketting just as much as they found it unbeleivable.

Enigma · January 2006

Originally posted by Fadeus
I have to chime in about this one thing. I will beleive many of the developers saw an opportunity to point out how bad SOE is and how they would never do that in the name of marketting just as much as they found it unbeleivable.

I agree, it was purely a marketing stint. That's one of the first things I thought of when I read the article.

However, SWG was sorta flawed since the beginning of the game....since pre alpha really. Raph Koster wanted to push the "Player Driven Content Only" philosophy while developing the MMO.

Player Driven Content Only is a lot like COmmunism. It really looks good on paper but it just will not work in action. But whatever the case, I beleive it all boils down to ethics versus gameplay.

Sacrifice the playerbase to try to turn a game around by radically changing it?

or

Try to add things to the game to keep it running while developing a sequal of sorts.

Think about it: The prime of any MMO is about three years before you start to see the population dwindle a bit. Star Wars Galaxies was reaching that length of time. Who knows? I wouldn't know how to resurrect a dying game like this so I do applaud the DEVs for trying.

I just think it was unethical how they implemented it.

Scaris · January 2006

Completely unethical. That is why I turned off my last account finally today.

crack_fox · January 2006

Originally posted by En1Gma

Sacrifice the playerbase to try to turn a game around by radically changing it?

According to Smedley's letter, the intention with the NGE was to retain the existing playerbase and build on it, not to utterly alienate it. If this is to be taken at face value then what's really striking isn't so much the "bad ethics" of the change as the bewildering lack of foresight and regard in the way it was executed. For my money, NGE SWG is a decent enough game but thanks to cack-handed mismanagement it's one that I'm unlikely to be able to enjoy for very long.

hercules · January 2006

Its simple the jedi was a super powerful class which too ages to grind to master.suddenly they make them a starter class and the average joe as terms of power and pissed the many people who grinded.

It has quite a few bugs but seems thats not what causing the havoc as this bugs are long standing (some date back to luanch majority for over 2 years).

That is all there is to it .Yet to see one creature handler post here yet in the hundreds of spam here and thats a class that went extinct you think they be more pissed but then again the game was mainly jedi grinders anyhow.

Elnator · January 2006

Originally posted by hercules
Its simple the jedi was a super powerful class which too ages to grind to master.suddenly they make them a starter class and the average joe as terms of power and pissed the many people who grinded.
It has quite a few bugs but seems thats not what causing the havoc as this bugs are long standing (some date back to luanch majority for over 2 years).
That is all there is to it .Yet to see one creature handler post here yet in the hundreds of spam here and thats a class that went extinct you think they be more pissed but then again the game was mainly jedi grinders anyhow.

You're a fool if you honestly believe this is what has players upset. The jedi issue is an aggravation, sure, but it is HARDLY the main reason people are angry.

I've seen more former *insert random player who doesn't have a jedi* posts on the SWG forums than I have seen Jedi whining. Yeah, Jedi players are ticked too... but they are not the only ones... I wouldn't even say they're the majority. Crafters are even more angry than they are... so are rangers, ch, docs etc.

jaiden · January 2006

*game experience may change during online play*

Lucas arts and SOE have every right to make these changes, And i believe their for the better. I think Lucas Arts has a damn clue what its doing. I think what is upsetting the hardcore crowd is that SOE is no longer loyal to them. Their attempting to build a star wars game that captures the expereince of star wars and bring in newcomers to online games. If any game could do that through pure word of mouth it would be Star wars. Come on now everyone wants to play star wars, I damn well bet you that everyone here has not only seen a star wars movie but liked it as well.

Let Lucas Arts and SOE handle their business, stay out of it. It was undoubtedly a hard decision to make, and we all knopw SWG is a sucessful game, despite its rating plumit here at MMORPG.com. I say watch what happens with the game, after all their are about 100 something other MMORPG's to play, why pick on SWG for trying to fix itself.

elvigy · January 2006

The blatant lie was this-

They promised some improvements to the Creature Handler class in an upcoming expansion, including allowing CHs to have level 80 pets as well as some nice trinkets that that would increase your skills at taming and such. Then they offered the expansion to the public as a preorder, which many, many Creature Handler's did. Then they push out the (unexpected) NGE. Creature Handlers then find out that not only are the promised improvements not coming, but THE ENTIRE PROFESSION HAS BEEN ELIMINATED FROM THE GAME. The Creature Handler's that preordered were lied to and tricked into buying the expansion. Sony had to be shamed into offering refunds on the preorders.

That is blatant lying, false advertising and unethical business practices.

dopefish18 · January 2006

well i played Star Wars Galaxies before the i stopped, i kinda like the game its good especially the settings and graphics. i really love sci fi games so when i stopped playing SWG i switch to another sci fi game...i havent heard of their latest changes, does it bring good impact to the game? or just ruined SWG? hope that those changes will bring something good for the game..

Obraik · January 2006

Originally posted by elvigy

The blatant lie was this-
They promised some improvements to the Creature Handler class in an upcoming expansion, including allowing CHs to have level 80 pets as well as some nice trinkets that that would increase your skills at taming and such. Then they offered the expansion to the public as a preorder, which many, many Creature Handler's did. Then they push out the (unexpected) NGE. Creature Handlers then find out that not only are the promised improvements not coming, but THE ENTIRE PROFESSION HAS BEEN ELIMINATED FROM THE GAME. The Creature Handler's that preordered were lied to and tricked into buying the expansion. Sony had to be shamed into offering refunds on the preorders.
That is blatant lying, false advertising and unethical business practices.

Research before posting The revamp of CH happened many months before the NGE, the only thing you are right about is the taming necklace which would have let CH's tame pets over level 70 in the ToOW expansion. Anyone who felt "tricked" was offered a refund on the expansion.

To the poster above me, you will need to make your own mind up if the NGE has ruined the game for you. For me, no it hasn't and I'm still really enjoying my time in the game. If you cancelled before the 15/11/05 you can install the game from the origianl CDs and login for a free 15 day trial so you can see for yourself. This isn't the same 10 day trial that everyone can get, it works like you re-activated your old account.

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