Originally posted by azzamasin Not having PvE goes against the very nature of an RPG though. IMO CU becomes a 3rd person MOBA style game rather then an MMORPG.
/disagree
An RPG is simple a player playing a role to tell a story.
That story can just as easily be told by other players as it can be by devs. Plus if it's players telling the story you'll never run out of content.
Btw, I noticed that you pulled that graphic image from a video that Andrew used to make a point about having massive amounts of players on the screen. This was posted literally days after they announced the game. So it has nothing to do with what the graphics of the final game will be like. They basically slapped together the demo using particle effects they used from an iPad game they made (March on Oz). Andrew even specifically emphasized that this won't be the final graphics for the game.
I find it hilarious how haters latch on to something completely out of context to make some fake negative point about a game they decided to hate (for some stupid reason like QQing over no PvE). I say 'hater' since any intelligent person would realize that it's WAAAAY too soon to judge on graphics.
You really expect the graphics to evolve that much beyond that? Some improved textures and better artwork but that engine is what it is: old.
I'd venture a guess to say it's the hero engine but who knows.
Seems more unrealistic to assume the game will evolve from that to some kinda modern day title.
How is that taking things out of context either? I was illustrating a point the engine is gonna be dated from the get go, which is usually what you come to expect from indie developers. That's usually a lot for anything but a niché community to accept.
Are you just trying to guess now?
Hero Engine is what ESO uses. (thank God CU won't use it)
CU is going to use a "built from scratch" engine that will focus on large pvp battles. It's a specialized engine so it will be perfecet just for what CU will be. That's old news.
And yes graphics will evolve much beyond that. That wasn't even an prealpha!
Btw, I noticed that you pulled that graphic image from a video that Andrew used to make a point about having massive amounts of players on the screen. This was posted literally days after they announced the game. So it has nothing to do with what the graphics of the final game will be like. They basically slapped together the demo using particle effects they used from an iPad game they made (March on Oz). Andrew even specifically emphasized that this won't be the final graphics for the game.
I find it hilarious how haters latch on to something completely out of context to make some fake negative point about a game they decided to hate (for some stupid reason like QQing over no PvE). I say 'hater' since any intelligent person would realize that it's WAAAAY too soon to judge on graphics.
You really expect the graphics to evolve that much beyond that? Some improved textures and better artwork but that engine is what it is: old.
I'd venture a guess to say it's the hero engine but who knows.
Seems more unrealistic to assume the game will evolve from that to some kinda modern day title.
How is that taking things out of context either? I was illustrating a point the engine is gonna be dated from the get go, which is usually what you come to expect from indie developers. That's usually a lot for anything but a niché community to accept.
Are you just trying to guess now?
Hero Engine is what ESO uses. (thank God CU won't use it)
CU is going to use a "built from scratch" engine that will focus on large pvp battles. It's a specialized engine so it will be perfecet just for what CU will be. That's old news.
And yes graphics will evolve much beyond that. That wasn't even an prealpha!
I am guessing that Supernick got burned by Warhammer Online / ToA and has not gotten over that. I just cannot fathom the hatred towards a game, it has never made much sense to me since no one is forcing anyone to play it.
Is it fear that someones favorite game will suffer cause another game is so popular that its pulling away subs from every other game?
On a side note, if players are wanting a very good RvR/PvP experience akin to what DAoC originally offered, then graphics are the least of anyones concerns.
Crafting is PVE and it's huge in CU. There are even 3 crafter classes (one for each realm). There is the Depths. There are mobs to farm for materials.
So we can say that CU is 85-90% PVP and 10-15% PVE
Btw there is no problem with ESO or Gw2. They both have a fun BASIC rvr experience but those who want a complete and indepth RVR experience will come to Camelot Unchained since it offers so much more.
Btw there is no problem with ESO or Gw2. They both have a fun BASIC rvr experience but those who want a complete and indepth RVR experience will come to Camelot Unchained since it offers so much more.
/agree
It's not even that i dislike PVE. However, inorder to have a PvP game that works you need to design the mechanics and systems AROUND PvP. Not put it in a box and shove it off to the side.
In GW2 if they took out WvW tomorrow no-one who doesn't WvW would even notice.
If EVE took out PvP tomorrow the entire landscape of the game would be altered.
THAT'S the difference. And that's why CU is going to be awesome.
Originally posted by Satarious As ESO and WAR before it have shown, pleasing everybody is an impossible feat. It's human nature. When you have PvE and IP obsessives pulling developers in all sorts of directions, you end up with a mediocre game that pleases no one and is just adequate at everything. I look forward to an MMO that masters NON-INSTANCED RvR at the expense of everything else.
By your logic, catering to the PvP crowd is also an impossible feat doomed to failure -- as evidenced by Darkfall, Mortal Online, and others before them.
Btw there is no problem with ESO or Gw2. They both have a fun BASIC rvr experience but those who want a complete and indepth RVR experience will come to Camelot Unchained since it offers so much more.
/agree
It's not even that i dislike PVE. However, inorder to have a PvP game that works you need to design the mechanics and systems AROUND PvP. Not put it in a box and shove it off to the side.
In GW2 if they took out WvW tomorrow no-one who doesn't WvW would even notice.
If EVE took out PvP tomorrow the entire landscape of the game would be altered.
THAT'S the difference. And that's why CU is going to be awesome.
The problem lies in that PvP is even regarded separately from PvE. In Eve, PvE and PvP are basically intertwined and generally not differentiated much. If you're attacked by pirates, they feel like a part of the universe, not a squad of gankers just trying to kill you and dance on your dead body. Eve, however, took steps to really cultivate that feeling by rewarding people who treated it as IC (people having to leave their ships in order for others to take them intact, creating interaction between the parties,) as well as providing reasoning for these interactions (profit, among other things.) And filling the universe with living, breathing objectives for people to contest and feel achievement for obtaining (rather than stupid, useless points and unnecessary vanity items.)
I haven't followed Unchained enough to know if they can do it. But they'd have to move fairly far away from DAOC to pull that off. The only company with a AAA track record to do it is CCP, which leaves me resting my hopes in their World of Darkness MMO.
That's because in EvE as in the RL, conflict is over resources. Not points, or a useless castle on a useless hill. If your only objective is to take a castle because your opponet has it, that's fun for about a month, until that particular castle has changed hands about 500 times. Then you start thinking WTH is the point?
What eve does is give lawless space the best resources, which in turn drives players to fight over those resources. Which in turn drives the economy and increases the need for those resources. Which is why even though eve is more than a decade old. It's still the standard for what Open world PvP and a player based economy should look like.
That's what the games that have tried to do RvR have been missing. A reason to fight.... Outside of "because they are the other guys." Hopefully CU will do this with their resource spawn ideas, and player created structures. They seem to be on the right track, but only time will tell.
Originally posted by Satarious As ESO and WAR before it have shown, pleasing everybody is an impossible feat. It's human nature. When you have PvE and IP obsessives pulling developers in all sorts of directions, you end up with a mediocre game that pleases no one and is just adequate at everything. I look forward to an MMO that masters NON-INSTANCED RvR at the expense of everything else.
By your logic, catering to the PvP crowd is also an impossible feat doomed to failure -- as evidenced by Darkfall, Mortal Online, and others before them.
Wow. Your argument is poorly structured. First of all, your conclusion makes no sense based on my logic. My argument was that you cannot possibly cater to every type of player in an MMO and please everyone. Since the "PvP crowd" is a subset of the whole (PvE, IP, PvP, etc. crowds all combined), how are you arriving at your conclusion that the subset is somehow the same as the whole? Common sense dictates that it would be a whole lot more efficient to focus on PvP like a laser and not have to worry about PvE distractions. Your argument falls on its face. The "Jack of all trades, but master of none" thing has been done to death with MMOs. I think it's about time an MMO out there masters pvp (more specifically, RvR).
As for Darkfall, that game was a disaster before it was even released. The company behind it was a joke. Unlike Mark Jacobs (who knows how to release a polished, successful pvp type game), these jokers were and still are a bunch of amateurs. Also, the game was a free-for-all PvP game. Those types of pvp games never work because it's just a bunch of individuals killing each other randomly. There's no greater purpose like you would get from being a part of a team, guild, army, or nation in RvR.
That's because in EvE as in the RL, conflict is over resources. Not points, or a useless castle on a useless hill. If your only objective is to take a castle because your opponet has it, that's fun for about a month, until that particular castle has changed hands about 500 times. Then you start thinking WTH is the point?
What eve does is give lawless space the best resources, which in turn drives players to fight over those resources. Which in turn drives the economy and increases the need for those resources. Which is why even though eve is more than a decade old. It's still the standard for what Open world PvP and a player based economy should look like.
That's what the games that have tried to do RvR have been missing. A reason to fight.... Outside of "because they are the other guys." Hopefully CU will do this with their resource spawn ideas, and player created structures. They seem to be on the right track, but only time will tell.
CU has the correct direction since the best crafting resources will be in war zones and not in safe zones. Also the dungeon "The Depths" should be considered a resource.
Can't wait to have forum access and see what are they planning as the "driving force" for the whole war.
Originally posted by Satarious As ESO and WAR before it have shown, pleasing everybody is an impossible feat. It's human nature. When you have PvE and IP obsessives pulling developers in all sorts of directions, you end up with a mediocre game that pleases no one and is just adequate at everything. I look forward to an MMO that masters NON-INSTANCED RvR at the expense of everything else.
WOW is the number one rated game in terms of success. It's the standard that all others try to beat. PVP only games do ok but none come close to the top MMO games which have both. Why even use ESO which isn't out yet as an example?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It was stated again and again and again that CU is a niche game and that it will try to cater to a niche audience to be successful. Even 100k subs will be huge for CU and make CSE happy.
So yeah why trying to go mainstream and please everyone? WOW is already there and there is no point in trying to do so with all the competition. CU doesn't even have the budget to try (and fail at) that. It's not ESO it doesn't have 100+ million budget and a massive IP.
Is there seriously a person on here arguing about pre-alpha graphics not being impressive and that we should not expect much of a change? Is this person well? Is this stupidity or just ignorance? Truly amazing either way.
If you want amazing graphics you shouldn't be an MMO player anyway.
but graphics are one of the LAST things they work on in a game. I wouldn't be calling foul yet.. The games is still 6+ monthes out from the first ALPHA build.
who wants to beat another game really? those type of games usually fail.... example: GW2.
Started out nice tons of commanders from other games 40''commanders'' joined with their friends making epic battles all over the place the game was close too be the next E sports game with GvG matches both guild based and pugs.... but no Areanet decided to listen to the current EPIC HUGH population pve.
Because of the guilds roaming the servers killing off everything areanaet new WvW ruler listened to the pve side and wanted to make it more fair for pugs from a hardcore WvW to softcore.... xD
played eve online since day one this almost happened there but they decided the right way.
numbers means nothing! a game can survive with 100k good players, paying players they can survive for many many years and eve online is an example of it.
I hope this game follow that path instead to look at what the majority of players say to make a path and keep on that path.
they want hardcore PvP so stay at that path create tons of GvG, epic BIG realm vs realm make it e sports and it will go through the ages..... sure the game will have about 20k-250k players if there is no PVE''roaming around the game exploring'' type of players but it will be epic and it will survive and expand.
The only MMO impressing me since WoW was GW2 and I really want to more great experiences. I totally have faith here, hopefully we will see something amazing.
Originally posted by cheeseheads im glad also. maybe then the pvpers will leave the pve games alone and we can stop getting nerfs cause of them. just saying
Originally posted by Satarious As ESO and WAR before it have shown, pleasing everybody is an impossible task. It's human nature. When you have PvE and IP obsessives pulling developers in all sorts of directions, you end up with a mediocre game that pleases no one and is just adequate at everything. I look forward to an MMO that masters NON-INSTANCED RvR at the expense of everything else.
It's not impossible, DAoC did it just fine...
This really. Plus WAR was not a mix of PvP and PvE. It was PvP all the way + public quests. And lack of any real PvE was one reason why it failed (PvP and nothing else to do).
Btw, I noticed that you pulled that graphic image from a video that Andrew used to make a point about having massive amounts of players on the screen. This was posted literally days after they announced the game. So it has nothing to do with what the graphics of the final game will be like. They basically slapped together the demo using particle effects they used from an iPad game they made (March on Oz). Andrew even specifically emphasized that this won't be the final graphics for the game.
I find it hilarious how haters latch on to something completely out of context to make some fake negative point about a game they decided to hate (for some stupid reason like QQing over no PvE). I say 'hater' since any intelligent person would realize that it's WAAAAY too soon to judge on graphics.
You really expect the graphics to evolve that much beyond that? Some improved textures and better artwork but that engine is what it is: old.
I'd venture a guess to say it's the hero engine but who knows.
Seems more unrealistic to assume the game will evolve from that to some kinda modern day title.
How is that taking things out of context either? I was illustrating a point the engine is gonna be dated from the get go, which is usually what you come to expect from indie developers. That's usually a lot for anything but a niché community to accept.
Are you just trying to guess now?
Hero Engine is what ESO uses. (thank God CU won't use it)
CU is going to use a "built from scratch" engine that will focus on large pvp battles. It's a specialized engine so it will be perfecet just for what CU will be. That's old news.
And yes graphics will evolve much beyond that. That wasn't even an prealpha!
Hero Engine in TESO was used only as a placeholder. Now they have their own framework developed from scratch. Learn facts, please
In fact, there is a non instanced PvP only, RvR MMO currently in the market. It is also one of the oldest MMOs. It also has one of the, if not the, largest MMO world ever made.
No doubt WWIIoL doesn't count (in your eyes) because;
Mark Jacobs didn't do it...
and
It has no crafting...
and it wasn't done RIGHT
amirite?
Well, that's fine. But, just so you all know... the PvP, RvR 'game of your dreams' is already here and has been for years...
and you know what? Most people don't like it. The game struggles despite years of love and updates from the developers.
Because players don't like to lose.
Yeah, I hear some of you saying how 'hardcore' you are, and that you will fight for your realm loyally no matter what...
I say "LIAR". Because I have been there. I have fought it. I have stayed loyal to my realm in the face of 'zergs' and logged on night after night to fight with the same 2 dozen people against an overwhelming onslaught.
And I watched all the 'hardcore' '1337' PvPers melt away, change sides or just unsub.
Because players will not continue to pay for a game where all they are is target practice for a horde.
And you can say that IRL sometimes armies do face a 'zerg' and sometimes armies do rise to victory against overwhelming odds. This is true. But IRL armies also get crushed this way. And the difference between IRL and the computer game world is that IRL you cannot logout and unsub knowing that it doesn't really make any difference.
Do you think Alexander the Great would have even had an army if his men had all had the 'logout' option when things weren't going 100% their way?
And my experience is not just WWIIoL either. I have PvPed for years. I am genuinely one of the very few who will continue to fight for a 'lost cause' for weeks, months, even years. I will log in night after night and face zergs and try different tactics and strategies to try to just hold ground. But, believe me, despite all the 'tough talk' now on the forum, 95% of gamers won't last more than a week under those conditions in the game.
What they will do is change sides. Some will even do 'secret deals' with the enemy and actively work against their realm in the hope that when the dust settles they can be the new 'leader'. Then it can be done their way... done RIGHT. In their mind they think that then they will be able to 'rise from the ashes' and somehow create an invincible force. But then they discover that other people are betraying them, and refusing to follow their orders and after an online tantrum that sometimes lasts for months they simply switch sides and join the dominant realm. Adding to the zerg and further killing the game.
And don't even get me started on mixing PvPers with crafters. That game exists too. Trust me... PvPers won't like it and the crafters really don't. And you will never guess who ends up dominating that game world (does depend on game mechanics though).
Anyway, that's the reality of PvP, RvR. And yes, it exists now, and has existed for years. People just don't play it because it's too tough.
This is wrong kind of thinking. Look how Darkfall did with this exact approach...
No. Having PvE and PvP doesn't mean you are trying to appeal to everyone.
A game can focus on its best feature, and have other things around to support that best feature. This works much better. I played Warhammer for 2 years but if it wasn't for the PvE and dungeons (yes the dungeons), where i didn't spend more than 10% of my total time, i would have got bored of the game in 3 months or so. You can't eat cheese everyday, you want some bread as well. The PvE you put doesn't have to be top notch. Doesn't have to compare to some other PvE focused game. Just add it as an option. One trick ponies are bound to fail.
Btw, I noticed that you pulled that graphic image from a video that Andrew used to make a point about having massive amounts of players on the screen. This was posted literally days after they announced the game. So it has nothing to do with what the graphics of the final game will be like. They basically slapped together the demo using particle effects they used from an iPad game they made (March on Oz). Andrew even specifically emphasized that this won't be the final graphics for the game.
I find it hilarious how haters latch on to something completely out of context to make some fake negative point about a game they decided to hate (for some stupid reason like QQing over no PvE). I say 'hater' since any intelligent person would realize that it's WAAAAY too soon to judge on graphics.
You really expect the graphics to evolve that much beyond that? Some improved textures and better artwork but that engine is what it is: old.
I'd venture a guess to say it's the hero engine but who knows.
Seems more unrealistic to assume the game will evolve from that to some kinda modern day title.
How is that taking things out of context either? I was illustrating a point the engine is gonna be dated from the get go, which is usually what you come to expect from indie developers. That's usually a lot for anything but a niché community to accept.
Lol. Uninformed, biased and without any clue at all.
The engine is not old.. the engine is build up from scratch.. with other words the engine is not even completely finished at this very moment. And those video as some have already said, was a very early engine test for the sole purpose to test performance with avatars on screen. The ground is not really relevant, and they designed one early test avatar, cloned them to test early capacity of players on screen possible.
If you want a early clue you can just take early animation tests of some races, and even that is work in progress.. noone can say how CU will look in the end.
With other words, when you don't know shit about something it is sometimes better to just shut up.
the pve in old school DAoC was probably my favorite of all time.
I mean before they hapharzadly threw in newbie quests at ever changing places and catacombs stuff.
i played that game 10 years, almost all in hibernia, max lvl of every class some multiple times over..and theres still parts ive never visited.
back before the task dungeons and powerleveling was the best. if you explored you would find spots no one else knew about or went.
remember grouping up wiht a new friend in connia, going down across the river up some hills to some big dinosaur looking things and the guy saying 'holy crap ive neverseen those'. heading on down to a fallen tree stump and grinding a lvl or 2 on some bark mites while everyone else was at a parth farm or a siabra camp. couple towns way down south in bog of cullen no one ever could get to, or really even had a reason to but it was fun to exlore.
no quests, no ultimate goal to collect or kill then rush back.. can't do that in todays games player x got a level ahead of you when you were asleep hurty go quest grind.
Comments
/disagree
An RPG is simple a player playing a role to tell a story.
That story can just as easily be told by other players as it can be by devs. Plus if it's players telling the story you'll never run out of content.
Are you just trying to guess now?
Hero Engine is what ESO uses. (thank God CU won't use it)
CU is going to use a "built from scratch" engine that will focus on large pvp battles. It's a specialized engine so it will be perfecet just for what CU will be. That's old news.
And yes graphics will evolve much beyond that. That wasn't even an prealpha!
I am guessing that Supernick got burned by Warhammer Online / ToA and has not gotten over that. I just cannot fathom the hatred towards a game, it has never made much sense to me since no one is forcing anyone to play it.
Is it fear that someones favorite game will suffer cause another game is so popular that its pulling away subs from every other game?
On a side note, if players are wanting a very good RvR/PvP experience akin to what DAoC originally offered, then graphics are the least of anyones concerns.
Lolipops !
Btw it's not true that CU has no PVE.
Crafting is PVE and it's huge in CU. There are even 3 crafter classes (one for each realm). There is the Depths. There are mobs to farm for materials.
So we can say that CU is 85-90% PVP and 10-15% PVE
Btw there is no problem with ESO or Gw2. They both have a fun BASIC rvr experience but those who want a complete and indepth RVR experience will come to Camelot Unchained since it offers so much more.
/agree
It's not even that i dislike PVE. However, inorder to have a PvP game that works you need to design the mechanics and systems AROUND PvP. Not put it in a box and shove it off to the side.
In GW2 if they took out WvW tomorrow no-one who doesn't WvW would even notice.
If EVE took out PvP tomorrow the entire landscape of the game would be altered.
THAT'S the difference. And that's why CU is going to be awesome.
By your logic, catering to the PvP crowd is also an impossible feat doomed to failure -- as evidenced by Darkfall, Mortal Online, and others before them.
The problem lies in that PvP is even regarded separately from PvE. In Eve, PvE and PvP are basically intertwined and generally not differentiated much. If you're attacked by pirates, they feel like a part of the universe, not a squad of gankers just trying to kill you and dance on your dead body. Eve, however, took steps to really cultivate that feeling by rewarding people who treated it as IC (people having to leave their ships in order for others to take them intact, creating interaction between the parties,) as well as providing reasoning for these interactions (profit, among other things.) And filling the universe with living, breathing objectives for people to contest and feel achievement for obtaining (rather than stupid, useless points and unnecessary vanity items.)
I haven't followed Unchained enough to know if they can do it. But they'd have to move fairly far away from DAOC to pull that off. The only company with a AAA track record to do it is CCP, which leaves me resting my hopes in their World of Darkness MMO.
That's because in EvE as in the RL, conflict is over resources. Not points, or a useless castle on a useless hill. If your only objective is to take a castle because your opponet has it, that's fun for about a month, until that particular castle has changed hands about 500 times. Then you start thinking WTH is the point?
What eve does is give lawless space the best resources, which in turn drives players to fight over those resources. Which in turn drives the economy and increases the need for those resources. Which is why even though eve is more than a decade old. It's still the standard for what Open world PvP and a player based economy should look like.
That's what the games that have tried to do RvR have been missing. A reason to fight.... Outside of "because they are the other guys." Hopefully CU will do this with their resource spawn ideas, and player created structures. They seem to be on the right track, but only time will tell.
Wow. Your argument is poorly structured. First of all, your conclusion makes no sense based on my logic. My argument was that you cannot possibly cater to every type of player in an MMO and please everyone. Since the "PvP crowd" is a subset of the whole (PvE, IP, PvP, etc. crowds all combined), how are you arriving at your conclusion that the subset is somehow the same as the whole? Common sense dictates that it would be a whole lot more efficient to focus on PvP like a laser and not have to worry about PvE distractions. Your argument falls on its face. The "Jack of all trades, but master of none" thing has been done to death with MMOs. I think it's about time an MMO out there masters pvp (more specifically, RvR).
As for Darkfall, that game was a disaster before it was even released. The company behind it was a joke. Unlike Mark Jacobs (who knows how to release a polished, successful pvp type game), these jokers were and still are a bunch of amateurs. Also, the game was a free-for-all PvP game. Those types of pvp games never work because it's just a bunch of individuals killing each other randomly. There's no greater purpose like you would get from being a part of a team, guild, army, or nation in RvR.
CU has the correct direction since the best crafting resources will be in war zones and not in safe zones. Also the dungeon "The Depths" should be considered a resource.
Can't wait to have forum access and see what are they planning as the "driving force" for the whole war.
WOW is the number one rated game in terms of success. It's the standard that all others try to beat. PVP only games do ok but none come close to the top MMO games which have both. Why even use ESO which isn't out yet as an example?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Point is CU isn't trying to beat WOW.
It was stated again and again and again that CU is a niche game and that it will try to cater to a niche audience to be successful. Even 100k subs will be huge for CU and make CSE happy.
So yeah why trying to go mainstream and please everyone? WOW is already there and there is no point in trying to do so with all the competition. CU doesn't even have the budget to try (and fail at) that. It's not ESO it doesn't have 100+ million budget and a massive IP.
Is there seriously a person on here arguing about pre-alpha graphics not being impressive and that we should not expect much of a change? Is this person well? Is this stupidity or just ignorance? Truly amazing either way.
Honestly i don't really care about the graphics.
If you want amazing graphics you shouldn't be an MMO player anyway.
but graphics are one of the LAST things they work on in a game. I wouldn't be calling foul yet.. The games is still 6+ monthes out from the first ALPHA build.
I love all this wining(omg they try to beat WoW)
who wants to beat another game really? those type of games usually fail.... example: GW2.
Started out nice tons of commanders from other games 40''commanders'' joined with their friends making epic battles all over the place the game was close too be the next E sports game with GvG matches both guild based and pugs.... but no Areanet decided to listen to the current EPIC HUGH population pve.
Because of the guilds roaming the servers killing off everything areanaet new WvW ruler listened to the pve side and wanted to make it more fair for pugs from a hardcore WvW to softcore.... xD
played eve online since day one this almost happened there but they decided the right way.
numbers means nothing! a game can survive with 100k good players, paying players they can survive for many many years and eve online is an example of it.
I hope this game follow that path instead to look at what the majority of players say to make a path and keep on that path.
they want hardcore PvP so stay at that path create tons of GvG, epic BIG realm vs realm make it e sports and it will go through the ages..... sure the game will have about 20k-250k players if there is no PVE''roaming around the game exploring'' type of players but it will be epic and it will survive and expand.
Only if Npc's could complain...
This really. Plus WAR was not a mix of PvP and PvE. It was PvP all the way + public quests. And lack of any real PvE was one reason why it failed (PvP and nothing else to do).
Hero Engine in TESO was used only as a placeholder. Now they have their own framework developed from scratch. Learn facts, please
We want Realm Pride
I got tears in my eyes when I read it.
@Satarious (OP)
In fact, there is a non instanced PvP only, RvR MMO currently in the market. It is also one of the oldest MMOs. It also has one of the, if not the, largest MMO world ever made.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/34/WWII-Online-Battleground-Europe.html
Your comments make me chuckle.
No doubt WWIIoL doesn't count (in your eyes) because;
Mark Jacobs didn't do it...
and
It has no crafting...
and it wasn't done RIGHT
amirite?
Well, that's fine. But, just so you all know... the PvP, RvR 'game of your dreams' is already here and has been for years...
and you know what? Most people don't like it. The game struggles despite years of love and updates from the developers.
Because players don't like to lose.
Yeah, I hear some of you saying how 'hardcore' you are, and that you will fight for your realm loyally no matter what...
I say "LIAR". Because I have been there. I have fought it. I have stayed loyal to my realm in the face of 'zergs' and logged on night after night to fight with the same 2 dozen people against an overwhelming onslaught.
And I watched all the 'hardcore' '1337' PvPers melt away, change sides or just unsub.
Because players will not continue to pay for a game where all they are is target practice for a horde.
And you can say that IRL sometimes armies do face a 'zerg' and sometimes armies do rise to victory against overwhelming odds. This is true. But IRL armies also get crushed this way. And the difference between IRL and the computer game world is that IRL you cannot logout and unsub knowing that it doesn't really make any difference.
Do you think Alexander the Great would have even had an army if his men had all had the 'logout' option when things weren't going 100% their way?
And my experience is not just WWIIoL either. I have PvPed for years. I am genuinely one of the very few who will continue to fight for a 'lost cause' for weeks, months, even years. I will log in night after night and face zergs and try different tactics and strategies to try to just hold ground. But, believe me, despite all the 'tough talk' now on the forum, 95% of gamers won't last more than a week under those conditions in the game.
What they will do is change sides. Some will even do 'secret deals' with the enemy and actively work against their realm in the hope that when the dust settles they can be the new 'leader'. Then it can be done their way... done RIGHT. In their mind they think that then they will be able to 'rise from the ashes' and somehow create an invincible force. But then they discover that other people are betraying them, and refusing to follow their orders and after an online tantrum that sometimes lasts for months they simply switch sides and join the dominant realm. Adding to the zerg and further killing the game.
And don't even get me started on mixing PvPers with crafters. That game exists too. Trust me... PvPers won't like it and the crafters really don't. And you will never guess who ends up dominating that game world (does depend on game mechanics though).
Anyway, that's the reality of PvP, RvR. And yes, it exists now, and has existed for years. People just don't play it because it's too tough.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
This is wrong kind of thinking. Look how Darkfall did with this exact approach...
No. Having PvE and PvP doesn't mean you are trying to appeal to everyone.
A game can focus on its best feature, and have other things around to support that best feature. This works much better. I played Warhammer for 2 years but if it wasn't for the PvE and dungeons (yes the dungeons), where i didn't spend more than 10% of my total time, i would have got bored of the game in 3 months or so. You can't eat cheese everyday, you want some bread as well. The PvE you put doesn't have to be top notch. Doesn't have to compare to some other PvE focused game. Just add it as an option. One trick ponies are bound to fail.
Lol. Uninformed, biased and without any clue at all.
The engine is not old.. the engine is build up from scratch.. with other words the engine is not even completely finished at this very moment. And those video as some have already said, was a very early engine test for the sole purpose to test performance with avatars on screen. The ground is not really relevant, and they designed one early test avatar, cloned them to test early capacity of players on screen possible.
If you want a early clue you can just take early animation tests of some races, and even that is work in progress.. noone can say how CU will look in the end.
With other words, when you don't know shit about something it is sometimes better to just shut up.
the pve in old school DAoC was probably my favorite of all time.
I mean before they hapharzadly threw in newbie quests at ever changing places and catacombs stuff.
i played that game 10 years, almost all in hibernia, max lvl of every class some multiple times over..and theres still parts ive never visited.
back before the task dungeons and powerleveling was the best. if you explored you would find spots no one else knew about or went.
remember grouping up wiht a new friend in connia, going down across the river up some hills to some big dinosaur looking things and the guy saying 'holy crap ive neverseen those'. heading on down to a fallen tree stump and grinding a lvl or 2 on some bark mites while everyone else was at a parth farm or a siabra camp.
couple towns way down south in bog of cullen no one ever could get to, or really even had a reason to but it was fun to exlore.
no quests, no ultimate goal to collect or kill then rush back.. can't do that in todays games player x got a level ahead of you when you were asleep hurty go quest grind.