So Non-DPS roles

NetSage · February 2014

This game from what I've seen looks like it will be a nightmare for them. Especially healers. If this is true we'll just end up the zerg fest that is GW2 all over again.

alkarionlog · February 2014

Originally posted by NetSage
This game from what I've seen looks like it will be a nightmare for them. Especially healers. If this is true we'll just end up the zerg fest that is GW2 all over again.

you do ahve healer roles but tanks? any melee, dps? anyone who can attack, have a reason people say ESO take a lot of ideas from GW2, and yes eso don't really have the triad

Stormigan · February 2014

I look forward to trying a healer. If there are only a few healers in the game, players need to be thankful for what they got, and not grief when they die doing something stupid. I look forward to seeing how hard it is to complete tasks in order to level one.

Giffen · February 2014

The problem he is referring to is the targeting. In a massive zerg non-ae healing is supposedly nearly impossible due to the targeting mechanics in this game.

Hengist · February 2014

Originally posted by alkarionlog
Originally posted by NetSage This game from what I've seen looks like it will be a nightmare for them. Especially healers. If this is true we'll just end up the zerg fest that is GW2 all over again.

you do ahve healer roles but tanks? any melee, dps? anyone who can attack, have a reason people say ESO take a lot of ideas from GW2, and yes eso don't really have the triad

I don't see too many people saying ESO takes ideas from GW2.

Once upon a time, there was a game called Dark Age of Camelot, which set the gold standard for RvR style PvP. GW2 took the skeleton from DAoC and tried to "improve" it, but they did not learn a lot of the lessons of DAoC, and they had some issues with their game having too many effects which made lag a huge issue at launch.

ESO has people who were involved with DAoC on the development team, and if you've played ESO RvR, I think you'll find the enivronment, and the ideas are much the same as it's forefather. The gameplay is different, but the low lag, and 3 static factions instead of "worlds" changing around is definitely.

Does ESO have a holy trinity? Absolutely they do in PvE, although I from the previews I've read, a healer who just heals is not an asset in a group, a healer is going to heal, CC, and do other things to help a party.

In PvP, being honest, I'll miss the "guard" mechanic as a tank, but yes, the targeting issue for healers and support classes is not going to make things easy.

Eol- · February 2014

Originally posted by Giffen
The problem he is referring to is the targeting. In a massive zerg non-ae healing is supposedly nearly impossible due to the targeting mechanics in this game.

But most of the heals are not single target heals, they are aoe heals or cone heals. And the Templar skill that is single target has a morph that applies the heal to two others also. I can not say for absolute sure but from my experience the heals seem intelligent, ie, they go to the person who needs them most. Also, the range of some of the aoe heals (at least the Templar heals) are not really big, so you will often need to be closer to the action. As a healer, I actually found myself doing much less targeting than in traditional mmo's where your eyes seldom leave the group health bars. And frankly anything that takes the healers eyes off those whack-a-mole group health bars is a great thing.

joren · February 2014

In pvp you of course don't need to have the triad to be successful, but having a healer will absolutely give your group an advantage.

Pve is a different story. The group dungeons are hard when run through at the appropriate level. You have to have a tank and a healer, and the tank had better know how to actively block. If he doesn't, he'll die. You'll know when you have a good tank in the group.

Hell, there were pve solo dungeons for quests that were so hard at the appropriate level that many people were skipping until they leveled up some more. Granted it depends on what skills you've chosen, but still it was rough. I was standing outside one of the dungeons that people had to solo for a quest line, and there were four people that had just attempted it and some had tried it multiple times. They were all appropriate level for it, and none of them could complete it yet. We talked about how tough it was, and they decided they would gain a couple levels and come back to try it again.

I haven't tried the higher level dungeons, but other players have stated that there are boss mechanics that everyone has to actively block. If you don't you will die no matter if you're playing dps, tank, or healer.

pve dungeons are not meant to be zerged through. Personally I loved it, as I love a good challenge. Expect to die when first trying some of the pve dungeons out. Good support players will definitely stand out, but it will still be a good challenge for everyone.

dontadow · February 2014

Why do so many people want and expect games to behave the exact same way? Even if I take the notion that MMO is its own genre, which i don't believe, what other genre has games that have mechanics that behave the same. Even two MLB baseball games focusing on the same sport behave differently and have different mechanics. I look forward to playing a healing class in ESO because the traditional tank role is not as silly as screaming "aggros".

Valatheus · February 2014

Here's a video from the folks at Tamriel foundry showing a group clearing the first three lvl 15ish dungeons.

The viewpoint is from the healer, you can see how the various roles function. The healer actually might have an easier time of it compared to other MMOs, because a lot of the heals are 'smart-target' in that they're largely aoe or conal, or automatically target the lowest health members. For tanks, there are indeed a few taunts they can use - some from the Undaunted line, and another from sword & shield. A lot of the tanking will be CC oriented as well, involving roots and such to keep the mobs controlled. Everyone needs to be involved in using the team's synergies.

Pyatra · February 2014

Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by NetSage
This game from what I've seen looks like it will be a nightmare for them. Especially healers. If this is true we'll just end up the zerg fest that is GW2 all over again.

Why? Im thinking about trying some support/healing build

Here's my resto staff build, it was very viable but you can pretty much go anyway with it, resto staff (Ghostbuster Beam) is pretty fun, at least imho. Healing is definitely needed for certain PVE content and definitely for PVP.

My Beta Char

Level 18
Restoration Staff
Heavy Armor
Sorceror
Altmer
Crafting: Level 6-8, Alchemy, Enchanting, Clothier.
Crafting: Level 10-11, Blacksmithing, Woodworking
Crafting: Level 23, Provisioning
Altmeri Dominion

Actually I didn't need light armor, with a couple good enchants, racials, and sorceror I was hitting soft cap magicka regen (the stat turned orange on my character sheet and it told me I may want to diversify) So don't feel you have to have light armor. You can make it up with racials and other skill lines in some ways.

My strategy for healing was drop Blessing of Protection (with ramped DEF buff and a decent heal) on entire party and alternate with the lower cost Grand Healing and Regen between power attacks (Ghost Buster Beam), occasionally running up right behind the tank and casting Steadfast Ward on him. Mostly I got everyones DEF up to reduce how much I have to heal and if I pulled aggro briefly away from the "Tank" or semi-tank, I was durable enough for him to have time to get aggro back. Solo I just Crystal Shard the crap out of everything and heal myself and use "Shield Bash" and then power attack while walking backwards, when I remembered to put distance between us... still hadn't decided on my solo skills other than Grand Healing, Regen, and Crystal Shard.

Iselin · February 2014

Most of the go-to better heals in this game are smart heals - they'll heal the 2 or 3 members of your group that need it the most.

There are also cone heals that heal everyone in front of you and area heals that heal everyone around you.

There are marks that can be put on a target that heal anyone who attacks the target.

There are ground-targeted AOE heals.

There are also healing synergies. Someone casts an ability like the Undaunted Guild's Blood Altar (which everyone can get at level 6 or so when you first run into the Undaunted) and it places a 30 second long +health regeneration area that anyone in the area can also channel to heal self.

There are heals that are based on a % of damage you do.

There are heals based on the number of corpses in the area.

etc.

Healing is not an issue in this game at all.

Tamanous · February 2014

Healing is a different beast in this game to be sure. Because the game is more action oriented with having to position, block and dodge with far more on screen interaction the heals are all aoe, cone and auto target (for the most part). You cannot play the UI bar game or you will get obliterated.

There is not benefit to filling up your bars with every heal you have access too. ESO is resource management game so you choose your spell based on the situation and what utility it offers. Other players are expected to block and avoid damage as well. Heals cannot make up for missed blocks on boss attacks. ESO most certainly is not a "healer can keep anything alive game". Most healers I have seem have successfully healed with only 2-3 heals on their bars. The rest are other utility spells along with damage spells as even healers are expected to dps at times if the group dynamic demands it.

Basically a healer needs to move and defend positionally just like dps'rs and even the tank. Instead of lining up to attack and defend against mobs they are lining up to support their teammates and defend against mobs. Mouse clicking game play will be punished very harshly which is why there are limited buttons per bar.

DrDwarf · February 2014

Without having played much it is difficult to see how a healer can level a small range of heals as well as do enough DPS to tackle these solo dungeons.

It seems to me to be a healer you need adequate DPS and adequate healing to get on in pve.

Simply pitching up to 4 man dungeons with unlevelled heal spells via a fresh restoration staff equip doesnt sound fair on the rest of the group.

If you have enough levels between the main group dungeon content and skill points are sufficient I can see a solo player having time to level DPS and healing skills, otherwise they would need to group in pve outside dungeons as much as possible ? Perhaps doing world bosses, anchors over and over ?

Unknown · February 2014

Originally posted by dontadow
Why do so many people want and expect games to behave the exact same way? Even if I take the notion that MMO is its own genre, which i don't believe, what other genre has games that have mechanics that behave the same. Even two MLB baseball games focusing on the same sport behave differently and have different mechanics. I look forward to playing a healing class in ESO because the traditional tank role is not as silly as screaming "aggros".

People love novelty and hate/fear change.

Eighteen16 · February 2014

Originally posted by Giffen
The problem he is referring to is the targeting. In a massive zerg non-ae healing is supposedly nearly impossible due to the targeting mechanics in this game.

People should take a look at Tera... No targeting but the tanking and healing is smoother than any traditional MMO.

Octagon7711 · February 2014

Originally posted by DrDwarf
Without having played much it is difficult to see how a healer can level a small range of heals as well as do enough DPS to tackle these solo dungeons.

It seems to me to be a healer you need adequate DPS and adequate healing to get on in pve.

Simply pitching up to 4 man dungeons with unlevelled heal spells via a fresh restoration staff equip doesnt sound fair on the rest of the group.

If you have enough levels between the main group dungeon content and skill points are sufficient I can see a solo player having time to level DPS and healing skills, otherwise they would need to group in pve outside dungeons as much as possible ? Perhaps doing world bosses, anchors over and over ?

That's why I saw healers standing around the more difficult areas throwing out heals.

Castielle101 · February 2014

Can't imagine trying to be a healer in Guild Wars...with all the people moving around so much...wonder if it will be similar in ESO...

Cas

SoulTrapOnSelf · February 2014

it's the board and sword skill line where is at for tanking

Draedz · February 2014

I had fun healing in the beta! I am planning to play a healer / support role when the game releases. I think whats interesting is that any class can be a healer and offer different utility. The same is true with tanks and damage roles. I can only imagine the initial panic of someone narrow minded who groups with a sorcerer tank, or has a nightblade for a healer. It would be delightful to watch.

Dibdabs · February 2014

All characters can slap "Blood Altar" down pretty early on, so all characters can heal, to at least that degree even if nothing more. There are more powerful versions, too. Bring along your own healing potions too - hell, make 'em while you're at it. Characters can be rezzed with Soul Stones that any player can craft. The time when people just flat out HAD to have healers was a decade ago at least and times have changed. "The Trinity" is sooooo outmoded and uninteresting.

Hoofz · February 2014

i absolutely love healing in ESO. I play a healer in every MMO I play and the change of pace ESO gives works for me.

The aspect of targeting is the biggest lure for me. Yes there are a ton of AOE heals, but it is a jump from the "Just stand here and heal everyone in 40 yards".

nerovipus32 · February 2014

Originally posted by Giffen
The problem he is referring to is the targeting. In a massive zerg non-ae healing is supposedly nearly impossible due to the targeting mechanics in this game.

Press tab.

Draedz · February 2014

Originally posted by DrDwarf
Without having played much it is difficult to see how a healer can level a small range of heals as well as do enough DPS to tackle these solo dungeons.

It seems to me to be a healer you need adequate DPS and adequate healing to get on in pve.

Simply pitching up to 4 man dungeons with unlevelled heal spells via a fresh restoration staff equip doesnt sound fair on the rest of the group.

If you have enough levels between the main group dungeon content and skill points are sufficient I can see a solo player having time to level DPS and healing skills, otherwise they would need to group in pve outside dungeons as much as possible ? Perhaps doing world bosses, anchors over and over ?

First you must consider that having an ability slotted gives it experience gain. As a templar I had 3 damage abilities and 2 heals on my bar. I rarely healed while I was leveling but I had the abilities slotted to gain experience. Yes, there were some challenging solo encounters, but they were not impossible.

More damage abilities does not lead to more success. It is a resource management game. If you are doing damage with magicka, then your stamina is used to block, evade, and interrupt. If you are using both stamina and magicka to do damage, you will not have as much stamina for defensive play. The same concept is applied to healing. You don't need 5 healing abilities on your bar for your first dungeon.

Its not unfathomable to reserve a slot, or two, for skills that you want to gain experience in but may not necessarily use while soloing.

Speely · February 2014

Support will be just like offense: action-oriented and dynamic based upon the situation. Whether damage mitigation is best served by healing, shielding, CC, or pure offense will be determined by the enemies you encounter. In this sense, any role can be a support role. It's up to the players to determine how best to go about it in a fashion that holds up in varying scenarios.

Anyone equating "support" with just hanging out hitting the keys that make big numbers happen are going to have a hard time.

Tanking: translation in this game, high level, is expert director. However best directs damage to A) nowhere or

the place it matters least will be the best approach to tanking. Sounds simple, but given the ubiquitous nature of CC and AoE, it isn't, especially in PvP.

I plan to tank in PvP, and I adore the challenge that presents.

DrDwarf · February 2014

Originally posted by Draedz
Originally posted by DrDwarf
Without having played much it is difficult to see how a healer can level a small range of heals as well as do enough DPS to tackle these solo dungeons.

It seems to me to be a healer you need adequate DPS and adequate healing to get on in pve.

Simply pitching up to 4 man dungeons with unlevelled heal spells via a fresh restoration staff equip doesnt sound fair on the rest of the group.

If you have enough levels between the main group dungeon content and skill points are sufficient I can see a solo player having time to level DPS and healing skills, otherwise they would need to group in pve outside dungeons as much as possible ? Perhaps doing world bosses, anchors over and over ?

First you must consider that having an ability slotted gives it experience gain. As a templar I had 3 damage abilities and 2 heals on my bar. I rarely healed while I was leveling but I had the abilities slotted to gain experience. Yes, there were some challenging solo encounters, but they were not impossible.

More damage abilities does not lead to more success. It is a resource management game. If you are doing damage with magicka, then your stamina is used to block, evade, and interrupt. If you are using both stamina and magicka to do damage, you will not have as much stamina for defensive play. The same concept is applied to healing. You don't need 5 healing abilities on your bar for your first dungeon.

Its not unfathomable to reserve a slot, or two, for skills that you want to gain experience in but may not necessarily use while soloing.

Ok but it is the second and third dungeon one needs to worry about too ?

Id immediately worry about people speccing 2 weps and ending up at the second dungeons with 2 weak spell bars because they spread themselves too thin over all their abilities.

In group pve contentId (perhaps naively) I still see a healing biased character needing (or wanting) a variety of healing spells at their disposal and largely CC or defensive abilities elsewhere.

I would see pugs being far more of a challenge in ESO that a trinity based game because I expect a lot of screwed up builds and people spreading themselves too thinly. It is all very well people having healing skills but if they have no significant experience healing they wont use them in combat any way ....

Obviously that goes for every class ...having to play hybrid characters takes time to get used to.

Telondariel · February 2014

I plan to make a pure DPS sorc, a pure healer, and a hybrid. I've always enjoyed all 3 roles. However, since there tends to be more pain in being a pure healer (it's always your fault), I will put more effort in the hybrid as a support class. Think: mentalist or Smite cleric. Some CC, decent DPS, and a fair dose of healing. I think I shine best in that role due to its versatility. From what I've seen so far of skills, I should be able to pull off something interesting that I can work with.

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So Non-DPS roles

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So Non-DPS roles

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey