It's funny how current WoW players scream that Wildstar can't kill WoW because it's the same game but with less content, that they will not switch from WoW to Wildstar etc.
First of all, Wildstar does not cater to current WoW players, LFR raiders and mini-pet collectors. It caters to ex-WoW Vanilla and TBC players like myself.
Secondly, Wildstar is not the same game as current WoW. It has similar concepts to TBC WoW and it's nothing like current WoW. Vanilla/TBC WoW and current WoW are so far apart, they might as well have different names. But, that is something that Cata/Panda players just don't realize, hence all this silly posts.
Originally posted by DMKano It's more like WoW 0.5 - as 2.0 would have to be an improvement over WoW.
Not entirely, EQ2 was garbage compared to EQ1
I agree - I hated EQ2 with a passion - it should have never been called that - should have been World of Everquest - but SoE wanted to make sales off the name - which they did.
Vanguard was a true EQ1 successor IMO.
you know when eq2 was released? and wow? no? k
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
While all this WS - WOW comparison is going on, does anyone know how close together the Wildstar launch and Warlords of Draenor expac will be?
Too close together and their could be a real bun fight for subscriptions
If there is a fight, it will be between ESO and Wildstar, not sure that Wildstar can even compete in that fight as ESO has much more going for it, as for WoW, it won't make any difference, with the Draenor expansion subs will increase again for WoW, so for any game to release too close to the Draenor expansion would be a bad thing, and could hold back sales of whatever game does it. Either way, Wildstar is not WoW 2.0, im not even sure its a WoW knock off. But in the Arena that is MMO popularity, Wildstar is not yet of contender status, kind of wondering if any game ever will be, when the time comes its entirely possible WoW might just 'retire' undefeated
I dunno the ssraeshza temple raids in EQ seemed more difficult than anything in WoW. You had to split up the off tanks and healing a lot more, there was less room for error. You didn't have mods that basically play the game for you. Healing in WoW was a complete joke as soon as the mods started hitting, it came down to a lot of DPS checks and just avoiding the red marks on the ground and knowing where to move at that point.
LFR, maybe...heroic...absolutly not.
Like, dont even take my word for it...here is a quote from Paragon after they got the world first heroic lich king 25 man kill...and keep in mind...the raids have only gotten MUCh harder since then..
"”This is definitely the most challenging boss in WoW history, and I’ve been there among the first to kill Horsemen in Naxx-40 and whatnot. Everything else up to this point pales in comparison. The encounter is extremely ruthless in the sense that anyone making a mistake will almost instantly lead to a raid-wide wipe. The fight itself requires almost 20-minutes of full-on concentration coupled with very high personal skill-level.
Quite simply the perfect end-boss to finnish the expansion with, couldn't have hoped for more. My hat is off to Blizzard on this one. I can't wait to see if this encounter can be outdone in Cataclysm."
PS, please tell me this mod that basically plays the game for you, id love to give it a shot, especially as a healer.
In the end, exaderating the hell out of WoW's raid encounters, does not help Wildstar's chances in the least.
Actually no they haven't, it's generally been said by the raid community that the 0% buff 25HC LK encounter was one of the toughest that blizzard have ever put in WoW. Certainly nothing in Cata came close (with the possible exception of HC Raggy), and I've not seen or heard anyone saying anything in MoP has been tougher either. If I'm honest, and this is just personal conjecture, I'd argue that WotLK and it's raids were when Blizzard were at their peak in terms of encounter design, particularly Ulduar and ICC both of which were tuned beautifully for both the skill and gear of the raiders at the time. I've not had as much fun in any raid Blizz has released since ICC, but then that could just be because the cata raids were pretty shit and I ran the encounters 6 gazillion times in LFR once that dropped.
Not that this has any bearing on the discussion.
The advantage that the WS devs have when it comes to content is that they have put forward the idea of changing raid content (i.e. an encounter that changes week to week) meaning a simple guide or video won't be enough to get you through the mechanics, it will require a certain amount of skill and understanding. If they pull that off and it's not just a "Encounter A, B or C" moment, it should be quite interesting.
But, it has cartoon graphics, therefore it is WoW clone, it sukcs and will fail.
On a serious note, I agree that it is WoW 2.0. The question is, do we want to play WoW 2.0? Until recently, I was certain that I do. Now, I'm not so sure. But, I'm not saying I won't buy it, because I will. Longevity, that's another thing.
EQN Landmark and EQN = cartoon graphic so is wow clone ?
Ultimately wild star is wild star. Sure it helps to draw similarities or comparisons, but it could also give a different impression by generalisations.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
But, it has cartoon graphics, therefore it is WoW clone, it sukcs and will fail.
On a serious note, I agree that it is WoW 2.0. The question is, do we want to play WoW 2.0? Until recently, I was certain that I do. Now, I'm not so sure. But, I'm not saying I won't buy it, because I will. Longevity, that's another thing.
EQN Landmark and EQN = cartoon graphic so is wow clone ?
You are like the 3rd or something guy on this thread who did not see the "On a serious note"...
Really?
@ First guy I was like "ok , he .. didn't actually see that"
@ 2nd guy I was like "..fine, sense of sarcasm is low"
When I saw your post, I wanted to punch a .... banana......
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
I dunno the ssraeshza temple raids in EQ seemed more difficult than anything in WoW. You had to split up the off tanks and healing a lot more, there was less room for error. You didn't have mods that basically play the game for you. Healing in WoW was a complete joke as soon as the mods started hitting, it came down to a lot of DPS checks and just avoiding the red marks on the ground and knowing where to move at that point.
LFR, maybe...heroic...absolutly not.
Like, dont even take my word for it...here is a quote from Paragon after they got the world first heroic lich king 25 man kill...and keep in mind...the raids have only gotten MUCh harder since then..
"”This is definitely the most challenging boss in WoW history, and I’ve been there among the first to kill Horsemen in Naxx-40 and whatnot. Everything else up to this point pales in comparison. The encounter is extremely ruthless in the sense that anyone making a mistake will almost instantly lead to a raid-wide wipe. The fight itself requires almost 20-minutes of full-on concentration coupled with very high personal skill-level.
Quite simply the perfect end-boss to finnish the expansion with, couldn't have hoped for more. My hat is off to Blizzard on this one. I can't wait to see if this encounter can be outdone in Cataclysm."
PS, please tell me this mod that basically plays the game for you, id love to give it a shot, especially as a healer.
In the end, exaderating the hell out of WoW's raid encounters, does not help Wildstar's chances in the least.
Actually no they haven't, it's generally been said by the raid community that the 0% buff 25HC LK encounter was one of the toughest that blizzard have ever put in WoW. Certainly nothing in Cata came close (with the possible exception of HC Raggy), and I've not seen or heard anyone saying anything in MoP has been tougher either. If I'm honest, and this is just personal conjecture, I'd argue that WotLK and it's raids were when Blizzard were at their peak in terms of encounter design, particularly Ulduar and ICC both of which were tuned beautifully for both the skill and gear of the raiders at the time. I've not had as much fun in any raid Blizz has released since ICC, but then that could just be because the cata raids were pretty shit and I ran the encounters 6 gazillion times in LFR once that dropped.
Not that this has any bearing on the discussion.
The advantage that the WS devs have when it comes to content is that they have put forward the idea of changing raid content (i.e. an encounter that changes week to week) meaning a simple guide or video won't be enough to get you through the mechanics, it will require a certain amount of skill and understanding. If they pull that off and it's not just a "Encounter A, B or C" moment, it should be quite interesting.
Not with the possible exception of heroic rags...heroic rags was 100% harder than Heoric LK. Its not generally been said by the community that HK 25 0% was the hardest...its been generally said that it was the hardest up until that point, thats it...there have been fights in cata and MoP that have been harder. Heoric rags, heroic spine, heroic thunder king, and heroic garrosh come to mind. Go read method's and paragon's write ups on the thunder king, im done doing the research for you.
Did you also know that it took Paragon roughly 160 attmpts to get heroic LK 25?....you know how many it took them to get the lastest heroic end boss heroic Garrosh? Almost 700. Like seriously, just read their site....stop exaderating just to try and downplay WoW's raids....
All I am saying is I hope you are right about WS's raids. WoW's are the hardest and most complex on the market, and is why msot world first guilds compete for them, not because of "marketing". If WS releases raid instances that take world first guilds months to clear while raiding 16 hours a day, then they have a chance as stealing the hardcore raiding folkes, which will in turn generate word of mouth buzz. If they dont, hardcore raiders will just stick with WoW.
Wildstar is a carbon copy clone of WoW as its skeleton. Then it adds some shiny stuff ontop of that to try and be WoW 2.0 or its own thing. However you are VERY aware where wildstar is drawing 90% of its inspiration for its mechanics.
That being said, is Wildstar better then WoW? Not really honestly. In fact some things are actually better about WoW, namely, the battlegrounds.
The problem for World of Warcraft is that its 10 years old, and that means wildstar has a bit more freshness (I say a bit, because its basically copied all the old stuff from WoW).
The question is however, is that bit of freshness enough to tear people away from communities, guilds, characters, and lore they have invested so much time into already? I am not so sure. Usually it takes something much better to rip people away. EQ1 held onto people for years after games were released trying to take them away, it wasn't until World of Warcraft showed up that most people finally made the jump, and I do not think Wildstar is that kind of jump. EQN might be however, but thats another topic.
The problem with wildstar copying modern day WoW so closely is that it copied all the things that broke the MMORPG genre as well.
-Instant queuing for dungeons/raids which makes the world feel cheap and insignificant.
-instanced everything which chops up the community and cheapens the massively multiplayer experience.
-No death penalty worth mentioning such that you do not respect or fear the monsters at all.
-world wide auction house that kills socializing to sell your goods, and the far more exciting venture of local economies that give you reason to travel the world.
-etc... the list goes on and on.
Wildstar has the same cancer that WoW inflicted on the MMO genre.. at this point I am seriously question why bother switching off WoW until something different comes along that supports what an MMO once was, and what an MMO is capable of being (which a lot of us are hoping EQN or Pantheon will do). Until that point, getting invested in a "new" MMO seems pointless to me.
Wildstar has all the same bad game design choices that modern day WoW has, and its hard to be excited about t hat.
The quest system was a big turnoff for me. There was just way too much going on to really enjoy any of it. The quests themselves are all very simplistic and frankly, boring. Everywhere you look there are quests, and then there are path quests, and then there are challenges, and then you are getting calls for more quests. It felt like the game was just pushing me along from one quest objective to the next without any rhyme or reason to it.
The combat didn't appeal to me either. I didn't like that every attack is an AOE. It just didn't feel engaging. I tried 2 different classes and, despite having different resources, they both had the same mechanic. Spam button 1 until you have enough resource to spam button 2 three times, and use your stun once a fight if you need it. Rinse and repeat.
I went into the game expecting to like it, but it's just not for me.
Wildstar is a carbon copy clone of WoW as its skeleton. Then it adds some shiny stuff ontop of that to try and be WoW 2.0 or its own thing. However you are VERY aware where wildstar is drawing 90% of its inspiration for its mechanics.
That being said, is Wildstar better then WoW? Not really honestly. In fact some things are actually better about WoW, namely, the battlegrounds.
The problem for World of Warcraft is that its 10 years old, and that means wildstar has a bit more freshness (I say a bit, because its basically copied all the old stuff from WoW).
The question is however, is that bit of freshness enough to tear people away from communities, guilds, characters, and lore they have invested so much time into already? I am not so sure. Usually it takes something much better to rip people away. EQ1 held onto people for years after games were released trying to take them away, it wasn't until World of Warcraft showed up that most people finally made the jump, and I do not think Wildstar is that kind of jump. EQN might be however, but thats another topic.
The problem with wildstar copying modern day WoW so closely is that it copied all the things that broke the MMORPG genre as well.
-Instant queuing for dungeons/raids which makes the world feel cheap and insignificant.
-instanced everything which chops up the community and cheapens the massively multiplayer experience.
-No death penalty worth mentioning such that you do not respect or fear the monsters at all.
-world wide auction house that kills socializing to sell your goods, and the far more exciting venture of local economies that give you reason to travel the world.
-etc... the list goes on and on.
Wildstar has the same cancer that WoW inflicted on the MMO genre.. at this point I am seriously question why bother switching off WoW until something different comes along that supports what an MMO once was, and what an MMO is capable of being (which a lot of us are hoping EQN or Pantheon will do). Until that point, getting invested in a "new" MMO seems pointless to me.
Wildstar has all the same bad game design choices that modern day WoW has, and its hard to be excited about t hat.
You do realize that Wildstar is not targetting current, but former WoW players, right? And they have a pool of 100 million players to target (minus 7.5 million currently playing WoW).
So much misinformation and personal opinions in your post. Wildstar has instanced everything? Server wide auction house killing the MMORPG community? Severe death penalty would improve the genre? Seriously?
You do realize that Wildstar is not targetting current, but former WoW players, right? And they have a pool of 100 million players to target (minus 7.5 million currently playing WoW).
So much misinformation and personal opinions in your post. Wildstar has instanced everything? Server wide auction house killing the MMORPG community? Severe death penalty would improve the genre? Seriously?
From a marketing standpoint this might be true, but from a gameplay standpoint it certainly is not. Wildstar plays exactly like post cataclysm WoW. All of the little changes that have been made over time that made WoW worse all translated into WildStar.
Lets preface this by saying that my highest level was 15 and I know I have not experienced much. I will buy Wildstar and give it a go but I do have some problems with it, those being:
1 - Linear World
Man the world feels so linear at first. After getting to level 10 once I simply had no desire to repeat the exact same content. Being on the ship once was plenty, I wanted to roam a planet. I am an altoholic so this could be a problem for me.
2 - Character Customization
I look forward to designing a new character but to be honest, the character creation options feel super limited. I want the color scale and not 6 color choices. I want more than 8 face choices. I can live without a slider but at least give me several faces and accessory options.
3 - AOE everythings and AOE
I love the idea of tanking through body blocking. If I cant body block a player I would love to be able to step in front of his/her attacks and absorb it for a friend. Sadly all aoe's that I have seen hit everyone in the area and when all attacks are aoe this limits strategy to, dont stand near each other. I would have loved to see some attacks hit the 1st target they make contact with then stop. This way a good tank can actively intercept attacks that are going for softer targets.
Played Wildstar this weekend. Warrior to level 15, stalker and gunslinger to 10.
1. World seems a bit linear but its very huge and completely open. No invisible walls and a lot of things to explore. There are lots of places to jump to and off (double jump!). Did you get the hoverboard? I had lots of fun sprinting off of angled rocks and jumping 100ft in the air.
2. There are sliders for face customization.
3. There is a stat that governs your attack's follow through. I guess higher level mobs will be resistant to follow through attacks and they could basically tank your attack and guard enemies behind them, and vice versa with players.
I really like playing Wildstar this weekend, it was really fun. The combat was addictive, and so was the housing. It still needs polish and optimization but I'm going to give it a go.
A lot of talk about WOW in your post so if you liked Vanilla WOW before BGs how does WS stand up? Just wondering because that is the only time I believe WOW was any good before the non-gamers killed the game.
I have had 3 very enjoyable weekends playing Wildstar and i am very much looking forward to retail release.
I think anyone who has played the game must be blind or in complete denial to not see WOW's influence. Yes i know its a completely diffrent setting but the game does nothing to hide the fact that WOW was a major influence.
That said however, i think its is very unfair to label this a WOW clone. This game to me feels like a spiritual successor to WOW. It take the very successful and addictive formula that was wow, improves it in almost everyway, and then adds a crap ton of new and innovative ideas of its own.
Wildstar is the game that Blizzard should have started developing after the WOTLK expansion. Instead they have squeezed every penny they can out of the tired old engine of the original WOW.
If you never liked WOW then i dont think you will like Wildstar, but I feel pretty confident that Wildstar be the MMO that finally topples WOW
1st : carbine was established by former blizzard devs who worked on WoW itself, so there is no surprise there.
And 2nd : i will love to see how they get 7.8 million players world wide.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Originally posted by Thorbrand A lot of talk about WOW in your post so if you liked Vanilla WOW before BGs how does WS stand up? Just wondering because that is the only time I believe WOW was any good before the non-gamers killed the game.
It plays a lot like post cataclysm Wow. Very linear quests, very easy solo gameplay. There is basically no way to die if you play even a tiny bit intelligently.
As Lenny Cole would say, "There's no school like old school, and WoW is ******* headmaster. Good try but still it isn't something that will keep me playing.
I dunno the ssraeshza temple raids in EQ seemed more difficult than anything in WoW. You had to split up the off tanks and healing a lot more, there was less room for error. You didn't have mods that basically play the game for you. Healing in WoW was a complete joke as soon as the mods started hitting, it came down to a lot of DPS checks and just avoiding the red marks on the ground and knowing where to move at that point.
LFR, maybe...heroic...absolutly not.
Like, dont even take my word for it...here is a quote from Paragon after they got the world first heroic lich king 25 man kill...and keep in mind...the raids have only gotten MUCh harder since then..
"”This is definitely the most challenging boss in WoW history, and I’ve been there among the first to kill Horsemen in Naxx-40 and whatnot. Everything else up to this point pales in comparison. The encounter is extremely ruthless in the sense that anyone making a mistake will almost instantly lead to a raid-wide wipe. The fight itself requires almost 20-minutes of full-on concentration coupled with very high personal skill-level.
Quite simply the perfect end-boss to finnish the expansion with, couldn't have hoped for more. My hat is off to Blizzard on this one. I can't wait to see if this encounter can be outdone in Cataclysm."
PS, please tell me this mod that basically plays the game for you, id love to give it a shot, especially as a healer.
In the end, exaderating the hell out of WoW's raid encounters, does not help Wildstar's chances in the least.
Actually no they haven't, it's generally been said by the raid community that the 0% buff 25HC LK encounter was one of the toughest that blizzard have ever put in WoW. Certainly nothing in Cata came close (with the possible exception of HC Raggy), and I've not seen or heard anyone saying anything in MoP has been tougher either. If I'm honest, and this is just personal conjecture, I'd argue that WotLK and it's raids were when Blizzard were at their peak in terms of encounter design, particularly Ulduar and ICC both of which were tuned beautifully for both the skill and gear of the raiders at the time. I've not had as much fun in any raid Blizz has released since ICC, but then that could just be because the cata raids were pretty shit and I ran the encounters 6 gazillion times in LFR once that dropped.
Not that this has any bearing on the discussion.
The advantage that the WS devs have when it comes to content is that they have put forward the idea of changing raid content (i.e. an encounter that changes week to week) meaning a simple guide or video won't be enough to get you through the mechanics, it will require a certain amount of skill and understanding. If they pull that off and it's not just a "Encounter A, B or C" moment, it should be quite interesting.
All WS is doing is swapping bosses out week to week. That means you fight one boss this week, another boss next week, another boss the week after. All it is is gating content. You can't even do these bosses until you've grinded enough rep to get in there. You can't do the 40m until you do the 20m, etc. etc. Don't act like boss swapping is a novel idea.
Maybe this is what is missing for me in this game. I have been in a few beta weekends and I like the game. I really like the combat and I think Espers kick ass. But it is missing something for me. ESO isn't but this game is. I hadn't been able to put my finger on it but now I think I see.
I did not come into MMO games from WoW. I have never played WoW in my life as a matter of fact. My first MMO game was RIFT.
So when people agree that this is like a WoW 2.0, I kind of shake my head. What does that MEAN exactly for someone who has never played WoW?
Maybe this is what is missing for me in this game. I have been in a few beta weekends and I like the game. I really like the combat and I think Espers kick ass. But it is missing something for me. ESO isn't but this game is. I hadn't been able to put my finger on it but now I think I see.
I did not come into MMO games from WoW. I have never played WoW in my life as a matter of fact. My first MMO game was RIFT.
So when people agree that this is like a WoW 2.0, I kind of shake my head. What does that MEAN exactly for someone who has never played WoW?
Rift is pretty much a WoW clone as well. The Rift devs threw in some bells and whistles, but at it's core it is WoW.
Get quest, complete quest, turn in quest, rinse and repeat to max level. Add in PvP (mostly instanced if not all instanced), and the throw some raids and dungeons in.
Maybe this is what is missing for me in this game. I have been in a few beta weekends and I like the game. I really like the combat and I think Espers kick ass. But it is missing something for me. ESO isn't but this game is. I hadn't been able to put my finger on it but now I think I see.
I did not come into MMO games from WoW. I have never played WoW in my life as a matter of fact. My first MMO game was RIFT.
So when people agree that this is like a WoW 2.0, I kind of shake my head. What does that MEAN exactly for someone who has never played WoW?
Rift is pretty much a WoW clone as well. The Rift devs threw in some bells and whistles, but at it's core it is WoW.
Get quest, complete quest, turn in quest, rinse and repeat to max level. Add in PvP (mostly instanced if not all instanced), and the throw some raids and dungeons in.
I have heard that. But then people will say it is not and then debates and arguments ensue. And about those WoW clones, I have not heard many of them called "WoW 2.0" so to me it seems like people are saying a different thing when they say that than WoW clone.
Comments
It's funny how current WoW players scream that Wildstar can't kill WoW because it's the same game but with less content, that they will not switch from WoW to Wildstar etc.
First of all, Wildstar does not cater to current WoW players, LFR raiders and mini-pet collectors. It caters to ex-WoW Vanilla and TBC players like myself.
Secondly, Wildstar is not the same game as current WoW. It has similar concepts to TBC WoW and it's nothing like current WoW. Vanilla/TBC WoW and current WoW are so far apart, they might as well have different names. But, that is something that Cata/Panda players just don't realize, hence all this silly posts.
you know when eq2 was released? and wow? no? k
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
While all this WS - WOW comparison is going on, does anyone know how close together the Wildstar launch and Warlords of Draenor expac will be?
Too close together and their could be a real bun fight for subscriptions
If there is a fight, it will be between ESO and Wildstar, not sure that Wildstar can even compete in that fight as ESO has much more going for it, as for WoW, it won't make any difference, with the Draenor expansion subs will increase again for WoW, so for any game to release too close to the Draenor expansion would be a bad thing, and could hold back sales of whatever game does it. Either way, Wildstar is not WoW 2.0, im not even sure its a WoW knock off. But in the Arena that is MMO popularity, Wildstar is not yet of contender status, kind of wondering if any game ever will be, when the time comes its entirely possible WoW might just 'retire' undefeated
Actually no they haven't, it's generally been said by the raid community that the 0% buff 25HC LK encounter was one of the toughest that blizzard have ever put in WoW. Certainly nothing in Cata came close (with the possible exception of HC Raggy), and I've not seen or heard anyone saying anything in MoP has been tougher either. If I'm honest, and this is just personal conjecture, I'd argue that WotLK and it's raids were when Blizzard were at their peak in terms of encounter design, particularly Ulduar and ICC both of which were tuned beautifully for both the skill and gear of the raiders at the time. I've not had as much fun in any raid Blizz has released since ICC, but then that could just be because the cata raids were pretty shit and I ran the encounters 6 gazillion times in LFR once that dropped.
Not that this has any bearing on the discussion.
The advantage that the WS devs have when it comes to content is that they have put forward the idea of changing raid content (i.e. an encounter that changes week to week) meaning a simple guide or video won't be enough to get you through the mechanics, it will require a certain amount of skill and understanding. If they pull that off and it's not just a "Encounter A, B or C" moment, it should be quite interesting.
EQN Landmark and EQN = cartoon graphic so is wow clone ?
Wildstar is THE WoW clone.
Everything is VERY similar to WoW.
The endgame of Wildstar will be the decisive part in whether it will challenge WoW on any level.
I'm just really annoyed this game pushed Blade & Soul release back, because that game is so-fucking-awesomely-brilliant.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
You are like the 3rd or something guy on this thread who did not see the "On a serious note"...
Really?
@ First guy I was like "ok , he .. didn't actually see that"
@ 2nd guy I was like "..fine, sense of sarcasm is low"
When I saw your post, I wanted to punch a .... banana......
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Not with the possible exception of heroic rags...heroic rags was 100% harder than Heoric LK. Its not generally been said by the community that HK 25 0% was the hardest...its been generally said that it was the hardest up until that point, thats it...there have been fights in cata and MoP that have been harder. Heoric rags, heroic spine, heroic thunder king, and heroic garrosh come to mind. Go read method's and paragon's write ups on the thunder king, im done doing the research for you.
Did you also know that it took Paragon roughly 160 attmpts to get heroic LK 25?....you know how many it took them to get the lastest heroic end boss heroic Garrosh? Almost 700. Like seriously, just read their site....stop exaderating just to try and downplay WoW's raids....
All I am saying is I hope you are right about WS's raids. WoW's are the hardest and most complex on the market, and is why msot world first guilds compete for them, not because of "marketing". If WS releases raid instances that take world first guilds months to clear while raiding 16 hours a day, then they have a chance as stealing the hardcore raiding folkes, which will in turn generate word of mouth buzz. If they dont, hardcore raiders will just stick with WoW.
Wildstar is a carbon copy clone of WoW as its skeleton. Then it adds some shiny stuff ontop of that to try and be WoW 2.0 or its own thing. However you are VERY aware where wildstar is drawing 90% of its inspiration for its mechanics.
That being said, is Wildstar better then WoW? Not really honestly. In fact some things are actually better about WoW, namely, the battlegrounds.
The problem for World of Warcraft is that its 10 years old, and that means wildstar has a bit more freshness (I say a bit, because its basically copied all the old stuff from WoW).
The question is however, is that bit of freshness enough to tear people away from communities, guilds, characters, and lore they have invested so much time into already? I am not so sure. Usually it takes something much better to rip people away. EQ1 held onto people for years after games were released trying to take them away, it wasn't until World of Warcraft showed up that most people finally made the jump, and I do not think Wildstar is that kind of jump. EQN might be however, but thats another topic.
The problem with wildstar copying modern day WoW so closely is that it copied all the things that broke the MMORPG genre as well.
-Instant queuing for dungeons/raids which makes the world feel cheap and insignificant.
-instanced everything which chops up the community and cheapens the massively multiplayer experience.
-No death penalty worth mentioning such that you do not respect or fear the monsters at all.
-world wide auction house that kills socializing to sell your goods, and the far more exciting venture of local economies that give you reason to travel the world.
-etc... the list goes on and on.
Wildstar has the same cancer that WoW inflicted on the MMO genre.. at this point I am seriously question why bother switching off WoW until something different comes along that supports what an MMO once was, and what an MMO is capable of being (which a lot of us are hoping EQN or Pantheon will do). Until that point, getting invested in a "new" MMO seems pointless to me.
Wildstar has all the same bad game design choices that modern day WoW has, and its hard to be excited about t hat.
The quest system was a big turnoff for me. There was just way too much going on to really enjoy any of it. The quests themselves are all very simplistic and frankly, boring. Everywhere you look there are quests, and then there are path quests, and then there are challenges, and then you are getting calls for more quests. It felt like the game was just pushing me along from one quest objective to the next without any rhyme or reason to it.
The combat didn't appeal to me either. I didn't like that every attack is an AOE. It just didn't feel engaging. I tried 2 different classes and, despite having different resources, they both had the same mechanic. Spam button 1 until you have enough resource to spam button 2 three times, and use your stun once a fight if you need it. Rinse and repeat.
I went into the game expecting to like it, but it's just not for me.
You do realize that Wildstar is not targetting current, but former WoW players, right? And they have a pool of 100 million players to target (minus 7.5 million currently playing WoW).
So much misinformation and personal opinions in your post. Wildstar has instanced everything? Server wide auction house killing the MMORPG community? Severe death penalty would improve the genre? Seriously?
Who really cares? Every game that has come out in the last few years seems to have had this title thrown at it.
All that matters is: Do you have fun playing the game? If yes well then great enjoy your time there. That is why we play games.
If no. Well then best of luck finding a game that you do like.
When did spending so much time and energy bashing a game you don't like become the cool thing to do?
If I don't like a game... I move on and find one that I do enjoy. At the same time I am happy for those that do like it.
As gamers in most cases we should hope all games do well. It just helps us all in the long run.
From a marketing standpoint this might be true, but from a gameplay standpoint it certainly is not. Wildstar plays exactly like post cataclysm WoW. All of the little changes that have been made over time that made WoW worse all translated into WildStar.
Played Wildstar this weekend. Warrior to level 15, stalker and gunslinger to 10.
1. World seems a bit linear but its very huge and completely open. No invisible walls and a lot of things to explore. There are lots of places to jump to and off (double jump!). Did you get the hoverboard? I had lots of fun sprinting off of angled rocks and jumping 100ft in the air.
2. There are sliders for face customization.
3. There is a stat that governs your attack's follow through. I guess higher level mobs will be resistant to follow through attacks and they could basically tank your attack and guard enemies behind them, and vice versa with players.
I really like playing Wildstar this weekend, it was really fun. The combat was addictive, and so was the housing. It still needs polish and optimization but I'm going to give it a go.
1st : carbine was established by former blizzard devs who worked on WoW itself, so there is no surprise there.
And 2nd : i will love to see how they get 7.8 million players world wide.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
It plays a lot like post cataclysm Wow. Very linear quests, very easy solo gameplay. There is basically no way to die if you play even a tiny bit intelligently.
As Lenny Cole would say, "There's no school like old school, and WoW is ******* headmaster.
Good try but still it isn't something that will keep me playing.
All WS is doing is swapping bosses out week to week. That means you fight one boss this week, another boss next week, another boss the week after. All it is is gating content. You can't even do these bosses until you've grinded enough rep to get in there. You can't do the 40m until you do the 20m, etc. etc. Don't act like boss swapping is a novel idea.
Maybe this is what is missing for me in this game. I have been in a few beta weekends and I like the game. I really like the combat and I think Espers kick ass. But it is missing something for me. ESO isn't but this game is. I hadn't been able to put my finger on it but now I think I see.
I did not come into MMO games from WoW. I have never played WoW in my life as a matter of fact. My first MMO game was RIFT.
So when people agree that this is like a WoW 2.0, I kind of shake my head. What does that MEAN exactly for someone who has never played WoW?
Rift is pretty much a WoW clone as well. The Rift devs threw in some bells and whistles, but at it's core it is WoW.
Get quest, complete quest, turn in quest, rinse and repeat to max level. Add in PvP (mostly instanced if not all instanced), and the throw some raids and dungeons in.
I have heard that. But then people will say it is not and then debates and arguments ensue. And about those WoW clones, I have not heard many of them called "WoW 2.0" so to me it seems like people are saying a different thing when they say that than WoW clone.