I'm happy about this. Very fond memories of player to player trading and selling crafting skills for tips. Work hard and reap rewards. Instant gratification takes the fun out of games.
That's exactly how I remember it before someone finally put an ah in a game. Mind I am not a game developer, so I know nothing on how or why certain things are done in a game, but as end user my memories of pre AH are exactly like that. If they used the player shop option, I would be more optimist, but as I see it, is only a way to try to force everybody to enter the PvP zone to give more mass to the PvP endgame.
Is one of the things that make me not like the game. Again, I am not saying the game is bad , just that personally I like more an AH, and have bad memories of games without it, I never found the waste of time to sort through the walls of WTS meaningfull interaction, just a huge loss of time that kept me from doing other things I would prefer to do ina
I'm looking forward to this. It kind of reminds me of SWG a bit in that it will be players interacting directly with players to sell their wares. In SWG there were entire guilds that were known for having malls where the best weapons and items were.
Also, the idea of scarcity reminds me of the traditional Elder Scrolls games. There have been many times in Morrowind and Oblivion when I passed on buying a weapon or piece of armor from a vendor just to go back and find it gone the next day (when I didn't just wait and steal it). Granted, in Skyrim all you had to do was rest for a day or two and the vendor's goods would respawn.
Humm, this brings back some memories, what was the name of the cave where all the traders were at in EQ just down the road from Freeport. 1999-2000 time frame.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Originally posted by mbd1968 They should let you open up a shop/market stall and hire an NPC storekeeper to sell you're goods. Crafters make things, they are not salesmen. I don't want to spend my limited playtime hawking my wares.
This is the type of scenario when you just need a contact (most likely a guild) That you can sell to and they in turn will sell your item in their shop at a profit.
Interesting idea, but it will only result in 500 website trading posts. So people are going to go across the 50 ESO EBAY websites that pop up and post their item in each one rather than posting it in a single centralized location.
What it will do is get rid of the cetralized economic stats and easy economic manipulation by players like you see in GW2. I imagine that it will be hard to find the precise value of any item at any particular time like you can do through gw2spidy.com.
However, this depends on just how much economic information is available through the ESO API which we have no details on yet.
You know, the more I think about it, the more I like it. Doing things this way ties Cyrodiil and the rest of the world together.
It just might be a huge factor in making pvp matter. I can even see polotics taking place between allied guilds. Maybe even an alliance system springing from this.
You know, the more I think about it, the more I like it. Doing things this way ties Cyrodiil and the rest of the world together.
It just might be a huge factor in making pvp matter. I can even see polotics taking place between allied guilds. Maybe even an alliance system springing from this.
Absolutely:
Imagine how lucrative these keeps might be. It sort of mimics how the medieval world was run.
Like someone else said, it will bring back the days of Brit bank in UO, and I love it. I miss bank sitting to buy, sell and show off. You can find great deals and meet a lot people.
I applaud Zenimax for going with this system. By putting crafting and the economy into the hands of the people, the game will feel a lot more alive. Yes, trade spam will be a pain in the butt. But I love the fact that I can run around and explore the lands. Then head back to town, and offer some of my new found goods to the public. To me, that seems real. I can see that happening in this world. An auction house is not very immersive.
As for guild trading, I like that idea too. Yes, some guilds will be pathetic and will form just as a trading monopoly. But you, as the customer can choose not to join those guilds. I would like to think that we, the customers, can control the economy. I am sure there are others like me, who would refuse to join a cookie cutter guild.
They should make a merchant skill line where players can put up vendors, shops, and bazaars of sorts depending on how deep in the skill-line players go.
honestly i rather buy directly from someone then through the AH atleast when speaking to the person there is room for negotiation. when its up on the AH it ends up creating a standered price and its usually stupidly high. look at swtor for example lol. or better yet FFXI before they FINALLY fixed it...somewhat
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It won't make players "interact" unless your definition of interact is a million lonely voices spamming each and every public channel. Auction houses/trading posts where a solution to a very real problem. This does not address it.
Don't understand the no auction system myself. I think it's one of the few decisions I completely disagree with.
Have your own guild of players then be in 4 other "trade" guilds.. it's like an auction system but basically a limited one.
So basically "we're giving you auctions but we're limiting them for you artificially" ...ok.
Despite some vague nostalgia of the Asheron's Call trade mines, this type of system is cumbersome and dated. In some strange effort to combat that cumbersome system they decide to throw a half-baked auction system at you anyway?
It's lose-lose either way. No auction? Chat spam constant in a localized area that players pick. Limited auction? People won't appreciate the merit of it at all, even if it does sound good on paper.
Hence it makes no sense.. go with a full blown AH system or none at all, don't stand somewhere in the middle with a mediocre system.
We have all been slowly spoon-fed the joys of instant gratification since the launch of the game that must not be named in 2004. It completely changed the reason of logging on for the average mmorpg player, from being immersed in an alternate reality without the rush, just enjoying the ride to the content locust that rushes to max lvl in 2 weeks and then starts crying for raids.
This is all tied to what we see here, in the number of angry posts about the system the devs are trying to put on TESO.
It is screaming at us guys, all the beta, the dev speak, the info on official website- the devs want you to have a horizontal progression rather than a vertical one. This is not a rush about getting two more levels tonight and ensuring all your items are blue+ and within your level. All the exploration based content, all the secret quests that you can find hidden in an item in an npc merchant in a forgotten cave, they are all telling us the same message: DO NOT RUSH.
I experienced a plethora of selling options from the shadowbane crafter/seller npcs in player built cities to the merchant with the little shop sign in eq2. And I am telling you the greatert memories are from the days of daoc, where it was EXTREMELY difficult to find that crafter that could pump out those %100 quality epic items. It was something to look forward to. It involved diplomacy, it involved speechcraft, the virtual skills we love in games, being performed by yours truly. Tipping the crafter on the outcome as well as the speed and how nice they were. All these things are tied to this horizontal progression that these devs (and us silent majority) want.
It was evident when they tried to take the patience formula of TES universe and try to stick it into the rushfest of mmo's today that this would happen.
However i do not have any worries because the content locust, insta gratification generation will get angry and quit, which will leave us old farts still trying to rp, still trying to get immersed in an alternate reality.
Having been someone who played (Older) RuneScape, this is good new to me. Here are my reasons and the reasons I enjoyed it in RuneScape, before they added their auction house.
1. Merchanting is an actual thing. Granted there are still people that "Flip" items in auction houses, but when it is setup in this way simply knowing what things are worth is good knowledge to have and can make someone a fortune in-game.
2. Prices work differently - It is now based off of how much it is worth to that person at that specific time and place. How desperate are they to buy/sell it. This can create more player interaction rather than having a system do it all for you.
3. Trading cities - While I do not believe that the PvP zone will be a main trade hub, I do think there will be a specific city that people "Gravitate" towards. While I am not big on immersion (I can survive without it) it certainly makes the cities feel a lot more alive, rather than just a bunch of silent players standing near an NPC Auction house..
Those are the main things I can think of and that I personally enjoy about such a system. I wasn't all that excited about this game after the first beta I played, but I am willing to retry it this weekend and give it a second chance.
Edit: It may not sound that fun, but there is just something about hunting down that epic piece of gear that someone else has to sell. (Although sometimes the hunt is more exciting than the weapon/item itself)
OMG this game might make me PvP for the first time ever. Love the article agree with each point. It could work wonderfully or fail miserably with the fun of playing and actually see it happen.
I have run a 500 player guild in Warhammer and players are not so keen to help their guild mates as people might imagine.
Did you ever think that "500 players" was probably your problem.
In Lineage 2 we would cross the map if a clan or alliance member dropped gear. I outfited all my clan members with some C grade gear and they in turn outfitted me with A or S grade (I forget).
I believe maximum clan membership for the "highest level" clan was 100.
We helped each other out, went to war for each other and were a close knit group. Even when I left the game and eventually came back, I joined a large clan/alliance and we would drop everything and pvp for each other.
But 500 players? That seems a bit large.
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First of all, I am impressed that finally a post-WoW MMO has the insight to remove the Auction House/Trading Post feature. What this article lists as a potential issue (i.e. town spam of WTB/WTS items) was actually a great aspect of past MMO's. Towns felt alive with REAL people. I am one of those that say if you don't like these concepts of interacting with other people, then why the hell are you paying a subscription model to do so? Simply play one of the great single player experiences such as Skyrim if that is your style.
I am an MMO veteran of original Everquest, Ultima Online, & the best of them all & inventor and still king of RvR, Dark Age of Camelot. Those games knew what MULTIPLAYER meant. It doesn't mean going to an Auction vendor & buying the cheapest gear listed, or 10k people undercutting each other.
For those WoW veterans or those Guild Wars 2 players, and any other post-WoW players, I challenge you to tell me who was the best crafter on your server of choice. Or for that matter, name a crafter that you did business with. Odds are you have no clue...and the crafter had no clue who purchased & used their items. That is a sad sad system and to call it a "feature" is a disservice to what MULTIPLAYER gaming is all about, and that is interacting with other people. So glad ESO did away with this. Now if they had only taken away quest indicators & kept true to different races for each alliance, we'd really have a long term winner here.
Comments
That's exactly how I remember it before someone finally put an ah in a game. Mind I am not a game developer, so I know nothing on how or why certain things are done in a game, but as end user my memories of pre AH are exactly like that. If they used the player shop option, I would be more optimist, but as I see it, is only a way to try to force everybody to enter the PvP zone to give more mass to the PvP endgame.
Is one of the things that make me not like the game. Again, I am not saying the game is bad , just that personally I like more an AH, and have bad memories of games without it, I never found the waste of time to sort through the walls of WTS meaningfull interaction, just a huge loss of time that kept me from doing other things I would prefer to do ina
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5120/7210363296_8357bee9de.jpg
I'm looking forward to this. It kind of reminds me of SWG a bit in that it will be players interacting directly with players to sell their wares. In SWG there were entire guilds that were known for having malls where the best weapons and items were.
Also, the idea of scarcity reminds me of the traditional Elder Scrolls games. There have been many times in Morrowind and Oblivion when I passed on buying a weapon or piece of armor from a vendor just to go back and find it gone the next day (when I didn't just wait and steal it). Granted, in Skyrim all you had to do was rest for a day or two and the vendor's goods would respawn.
MAGA
This is the type of scenario when you just need a contact (most likely a guild) That you can sell to and they in turn will sell your item in their shop at a profit.
More like, how a real economy works.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Interesting idea, but it will only result in 500 website trading posts. So people are going to go across the 50 ESO EBAY websites that pop up and post their item in each one rather than posting it in a single centralized location.
What it will do is get rid of the cetralized economic stats and easy economic manipulation by players like you see in GW2. I imagine that it will be hard to find the precise value of any item at any particular time like you can do through gw2spidy.com.
However, this depends on just how much economic information is available through the ESO API which we have no details on yet.
You know, the more I think about it, the more I like it. Doing things this way ties Cyrodiil and the rest of the world together.
It just might be a huge factor in making pvp matter. I can even see polotics taking place between allied guilds. Maybe even an alliance system springing from this.
Absolutely:
Imagine how lucrative these keeps might be. It sort of mimics how the medieval world was run.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Like someone else said, it will bring back the days of Brit bank in UO, and I love it. I miss bank sitting to buy, sell and show off. You can find great deals and meet a lot people.
I applaud Zenimax for going with this system. By putting crafting and the economy into the hands of the people, the game will feel a lot more alive. Yes, trade spam will be a pain in the butt. But I love the fact that I can run around and explore the lands. Then head back to town, and offer some of my new found goods to the public. To me, that seems real. I can see that happening in this world. An auction house is not very immersive.
As for guild trading, I like that idea too. Yes, some guilds will be pathetic and will form just as a trading monopoly. But you, as the customer can choose not to join those guilds. I would like to think that we, the customers, can control the economy. I am sure there are others like me, who would refuse to join a cookie cutter guild.
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I have memorys of WOW when I came in from the wild
Things that made me think of bartle socials.
The place in arathi highlands with the caravan and a pattern for level xx shoulders, that actually sold.
Being an explorer by terms set from others.
Looks like Ill be doing crafting alts.
Is the guild cap of Accounts or alts? Think about it, if everyone has 2 or 3 alts, a guild could fill up very quickly if the cap is toon based.
Also am very worried about trade chat spam...there is a reason AH's were invented and embraced with a passion.
Anyone remember FF14 1.00?
Yea, there will be an AH in ESO. Give it time.
So basically you have two options when it comes to buying and selling items (outside of your guild):
1) Spam trade and hope for the best
2) Go into Cyrodiil and hope for the best
Don't understand the no auction system myself. I think it's one of the few decisions I completely disagree with.
Have your own guild of players then be in 4 other "trade" guilds.. it's like an auction system but basically a limited one.
So basically "we're giving you auctions but we're limiting them for you artificially" ...ok.
Despite some vague nostalgia of the Asheron's Call trade mines, this type of system is cumbersome and dated. In some strange effort to combat that cumbersome system they decide to throw a half-baked auction system at you anyway?
It's lose-lose either way. No auction? Chat spam constant in a localized area that players pick. Limited auction? People won't appreciate the merit of it at all, even if it does sound good on paper.
Hence it makes no sense.. go with a full blown AH system or none at all, don't stand somewhere in the middle with a mediocre system.
We have all been slowly spoon-fed the joys of instant gratification since the launch of the game that must not be named in 2004. It completely changed the reason of logging on for the average mmorpg player, from being immersed in an alternate reality without the rush, just enjoying the ride to the content locust that rushes to max lvl in 2 weeks and then starts crying for raids.
This is all tied to what we see here, in the number of angry posts about the system the devs are trying to put on TESO.
It is screaming at us guys, all the beta, the dev speak, the info on official website- the devs want you to have a horizontal progression rather than a vertical one. This is not a rush about getting two more levels tonight and ensuring all your items are blue+ and within your level. All the exploration based content, all the secret quests that you can find hidden in an item in an npc merchant in a forgotten cave, they are all telling us the same message: DO NOT RUSH.
I experienced a plethora of selling options from the shadowbane crafter/seller npcs in player built cities to the merchant with the little shop sign in eq2. And I am telling you the greatert memories are from the days of daoc, where it was EXTREMELY difficult to find that crafter that could pump out those %100 quality epic items. It was something to look forward to. It involved diplomacy, it involved speechcraft, the virtual skills we love in games, being performed by yours truly. Tipping the crafter on the outcome as well as the speed and how nice they were. All these things are tied to this horizontal progression that these devs (and us silent majority) want.
It was evident when they tried to take the patience formula of TES universe and try to stick it into the rushfest of mmo's today that this would happen.
However i do not have any worries because the content locust, insta gratification generation will get angry and quit, which will leave us old farts still trying to rp, still trying to get immersed in an alternate reality.
Having been someone who played (Older) RuneScape, this is good new to me. Here are my reasons and the reasons I enjoyed it in RuneScape, before they added their auction house.
1. Merchanting is an actual thing. Granted there are still people that "Flip" items in auction houses, but when it is setup in this way simply knowing what things are worth is good knowledge to have and can make someone a fortune in-game.
2. Prices work differently - It is now based off of how much it is worth to that person at that specific time and place. How desperate are they to buy/sell it. This can create more player interaction rather than having a system do it all for you.
3. Trading cities - While I do not believe that the PvP zone will be a main trade hub, I do think there will be a specific city that people "Gravitate" towards. While I am not big on immersion (I can survive without it) it certainly makes the cities feel a lot more alive, rather than just a bunch of silent players standing near an NPC Auction house..
Those are the main things I can think of and that I personally enjoy about such a system. I wasn't all that excited about this game after the first beta I played, but I am willing to retry it this weekend and give it a second chance.
OMG this game might make me PvP for the first time ever. Love the article agree with each point. It could work wonderfully or fail miserably with the fun of playing and actually see it happen.
Finally something different.
No single player monopolising a commodity and driving the prices to insane levels.
No single group controlling a market and driving the prices to insane levels.
No gold farmers rorting the entire AH to sell gold by driving the prices to insane levels.
Real human interaction.
Honestly, this single thing has almost got me buying the game.
Did you ever think that "500 players" was probably your problem.
In Lineage 2 we would cross the map if a clan or alliance member dropped gear. I outfited all my clan members with some C grade gear and they in turn outfitted me with A or S grade (I forget).
I believe maximum clan membership for the "highest level" clan was 100.
We helped each other out, went to war for each other and were a close knit group. Even when I left the game and eventually came back, I joined a large clan/alliance and we would drop everything and pvp for each other.
But 500 players? That seems a bit large.
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Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
First of all, I am impressed that finally a post-WoW MMO has the insight to remove the Auction House/Trading Post feature. What this article lists as a potential issue (i.e. town spam of WTB/WTS items) was actually a great aspect of past MMO's. Towns felt alive with REAL people. I am one of those that say if you don't like these concepts of interacting with other people, then why the hell are you paying a subscription model to do so? Simply play one of the great single player experiences such as Skyrim if that is your style.
I am an MMO veteran of original Everquest, Ultima Online, & the best of them all & inventor and still king of RvR, Dark Age of Camelot. Those games knew what MULTIPLAYER meant. It doesn't mean going to an Auction vendor & buying the cheapest gear listed, or 10k people undercutting each other.
For those WoW veterans or those Guild Wars 2 players, and any other post-WoW players, I challenge you to tell me who was the best crafter on your server of choice. Or for that matter, name a crafter that you did business with. Odds are you have no clue...and the crafter had no clue who purchased & used their items. That is a sad sad system and to call it a "feature" is a disservice to what MULTIPLAYER gaming is all about, and that is interacting with other people. So glad ESO did away with this. Now if they had only taken away quest indicators & kept true to different races for each alliance, we'd really have a long term winner here.