Why would Lucas reward SOE with ANOTHER SWG game ???

admriker444 · January 2006

Can someone please explain the logic here ? Its quite obvious SOE blew their opportunity with the first one. How can anyone understand WoW's success compared to SWG when Star Wars is sooooo much more popular outside the mmorpg world.

I dont care how good it is. I dont care if they promise us pre-cu game with skills and no levels. I dont care what the hell they promise cause it will always be lies.

No way will I touch SWG 2 if its made by SOE. And this is coming from a guy with a lightsaber hanging above his bed, star wars alienware pc, and hundreds of other nicknacks going back to to 70's.

hercules · January 2006

First off i am suprised to think there is anyone still naive enough to believe SoE makes big changes without LA.

LA was well and present thru the programming of this game.

As for WoW vs SWG in popularity.I can list numerous factors as far as franchise is concerned.Not here to debate gameplay ,bugs or whatever .Though they have a good role to play.

1)everyone who knows warcraft plays a computer game as it is based purely on a game.Star wars is a film that has game spin off.my uncle is a die hard star wars fan but never touched a video game in his life.

2)There is no conflict in the warcraft story.SWG is plagued by this thus numerous changes.You got the roleplayers on one hand who want to exist and follow the star wars story.Then you have the fans who are in love with jedi and want their inclusion which makes the roleplayers very unhappy.

3)warcraft is a younger generation .I mean take again my uncle he is 52.He saw the first star wars at age of 24.Heck even kids in 1977 at 10 are now 38 with a young family and less time for gaming.

admriker444 · January 2006

Oh I agree that they make decisions together. However, after only getting 300k players max while WoW grabs 5+ million you'd think Lucas would boot SOE out the door. Instead they look like they're in bed together for another round bleh

After all the complaints, failures, bad press, more bad press, bad forum reviews, small player population, etc one would assume SOE would be fired from any further Lucas licensed game

RexNebular · January 2006

hercules ---> whatever you say don't forget one simple thing - the game is pure sh*t. WOW didn't get 90+% review scores just because magazine editors like Warcraft and SWG didn't get scores around 70% because editors hate SOE.

The game is either good or bad. It's as simple as that. I have no doubt that if SWG was actually finished and polished, just like WOW is, it would rule the mmorpg world.

Obraik · January 2006

I saw this mentioned by someone: WoW is like Britney Spears. Hugely popular, but really not as great as everyone makes out to be. WoW will get pregnent at some point and then the S*** will hit the fan

Aetius73 · January 2006

Originally posted by RexNebular

The game is either good or bad. It's as simple as that. I have no doubt that if SWG was actually finished and polished, just like WOW is, it would rule the mmorpg world.

I think their oppurtunity time to accomplish this has long since passed them by.

bareshdraco · January 2006

Originally posted by Aetius73

Originally posted by RexNebular

The game is either good or bad. It's as simple as that. I have no doubt that if SWG was actually finished and polished, just like WOW is, it would rule the mmorpg world.

I think their oppurtunity time to accomplish this has long since passed them by.

/whole heartedly agree

SWG was the best game on the market and with some balancing and extra content, it would have continued to be the best. LA / SOE made too many bad decisions and got greedy looking for new players rather than fixing it to retain the exisiting players and attracting new. The LA / SOE partnership is a money making wh**e and I for one will never ever touch a product by them again.

Even starting again from the beginning with SWG2 will not help after the damage and stain that has been left on there partnership in the last few months

chlaos · January 2006

Because Lucas Arts is just as much to blame for the travesty that is SWG as SOE is. Blithering idiots chasing the WOW lemmings.

hercules · January 2006

Originally posted by RexNebular

hercules ---> whatever you say don't forget one simple thing - the game is pure sh*t. WOW didn't get 90+% review scores just because magazine editors like Warcraft and SWG didn't get scores around 70% because editors hate SOE.
The game is either good or bad. It's as simple as that. I have no doubt that if SWG was actually finished and polished, just like WOW is, it would rule the mmorpg world.

Hmm well for me SWG died back in 2003 or so.But really do you trust those editors for reviews?Saw some magazine give WoW 95% for originality !

I mean come on lets be honest there is not one single original idea in it.It been sold even as a polished version of numerous mmorpg.

All the editors see is the game is streamlined(ie not confusing like eve) and it is stable and then they slap the 90% review.

SWG on the other hand is bug ridden.But it has more original ideas in it even with the crappy changes.

Elnator · January 2006

I love how people compare WoW (A brand new game) to games like SWG, DAOC and others and claim that those games, if they're as good, should have the same number of subscribers.

1) WoW tapped into a well known game in the RPG market. Everyone who was following WoW was:
A) A Gamer
A RPG Gamer
Do you people honestly believe that this didn't give WoW a huge advantage out the gate? The ONLY MMMORPG that can rightfully be scolded for not having a following on the scale that WoW did/does is EQ2. SWG's fanbase is MOVIE goers and some bookworms.

2) The RPG version of StarWars (the Pen and paper) NEVER caught on. More people play AD&D than play Star Wars RPG's. Most Star Wars Video Games are FPS or Spaceflight Combat Simulators. Only recently did KOTOR and KOTORII come out, they were the FIRST Star Wars RPG games and they were wildly popular but.... They had Jedi as a core portion of the game.

3) Star Wars caters to an older generation, by and large, most young folks don't really remember Luke, Ben, Han, Leia or Chewbacca.... The young folks who care about star wars know Anakin, Obi-Wan, Quai-Gon and Darth Maul and Padme.... Sure their parents have told them about the original movies and a FEW may have gone to see the re-releases... but the vast majority of folks who CARE about Episode IV through VI are 30+ years old. IE: Most are NOT gamers. Yes there are several hundred thousand of us. But the vast majority of online gamers now-days are between 18 and 27. Us 30+ account for enough to skew the average age up into the 30's but the larger market of gamers is between 18 and 27 (at least for a few more years till that generation grows up a bit and they become the 30+ crowd Due to this Warcraft, which the 18-27 crowd grew up with is a MUCH bigger GAMING name for those folks than Star Wars was.

4) As I briefly touched on the VAST majority of Star Wars video game fans want 2 things:
a) To be a pilot
b) To be a Jedi

Those are the 4 key reasons why SWG never got the 1mil players people keep ranting about. It was made in the wrong timeline. They tried to make it in a timeline where Jedi wouldn't exist and then threw Jedi in which pissed off the roleplayers, who also happen to be the vast majority of where their core consituency came from. Then instead of remaking the game with Jedi in mind and moving the timeline to either post EPVI or EP1-III timeframe (Either would work) Or even pre EPI for that matter they slapped jedi into the original timeline and wonder why all their roleplayers were pissed. Jedi don't belong in EP IV-VI folks... So the older crowd of players were a bit irked while the younger Jedi crowd was happy. But when you have strife like this it erodes the fun in the game.

Also there is TIMING. SWG was released in a time when online games were still a fairly niche market. We weren't mainstream yet. WoW, on the other hand, entered a market of millions and further tapped into the non MMO market by virtue of the huge following that they had from the console/PC single player market. UO, by the way, was successful because it tapped into It's previous market. EQ was successful because it tapped into the AD&D Market.

If SWG were a NEW release in TODAYS's market and set in a timeline that Jedi were more 'common' in and set up as either a starter profession, etc. Using the ORIGINAL game design, not NGE... it would SKYROCKET to the top of the list of MMORPGs

But that can't happen as long as they're trying to resuccitate a 3 year old game. Just isn't going to happen. I don't care how well you market it. 1 MILLION people have bought SWG over the past 3 years. Only 200k or so still play (if that many). That's 800,000 potential customers that have ALREADY been dissilusioned by this title. Getting those people back is nearly impossible. And without the 'word of mouth' from those 800,000 star wars fans the game will always have a hard time expanding it's player base, even with TV adds.

So SWG is doomed to mediocrity. Not because it's a particularly bad MMO... even the NGE isn't HORRIBLE... it's doomed because it was released at the wrong time, designed for the wrong movie timeline, badly implemented and had no real direction. This caused alienation of HUGE numbers of players that should have become loud SUPPORTERS of the game instead of detractors.

That is why SWG will never rival WoW. It is also partially why an SWG2, while it will have a better chance at catching WoW will probably struggle, at least at first, as well. It's got to be good enough to get folks to forgive SWG and try it. And then it's got to be good enough to get those people to encourage others to try it.

SWG as it exists now will NEVER rival WoW. SWG2 has a chance... but a slim one... and it's slimmer if SOE is the publisher because SOE, whether we think it deserves it or not, has gotten a bad reputation with the SWG community.

Elnator · January 2006

As a follow-on to my post, yet another reason SWG didn't sky-rocket when it first came out was this:

Everyone lauds EQ as a great game. And it is. However, EQ didn't exactly have a stellar reputation as a well supported game. Anyone who didn't play EQ 3 years ago probably has no idea just how BAD things were then. It wasn't till Mythic started really cutting into EQ's subscribers (DAOC is what caused EQ's numbers to stop climbing... It was the first MMO to have an impact on EQ at all. Entire guilds left EQ for DAOC). Up till then the EQ devs, much like the SWG devs, largely ignored the players and made comments like "soon" or "We're working on it" or "known issue". Fixes to core aspects of EQ didn't happen till AO and DAOC really started being felt as an impact to the game.

Also, I was there when SWG went into Beta. I was in BETA 1 of SWG and all through beta up till launch. SWG had a VERY VERY *cool* (bad way, not fonzie way) reception in the MMO community. The general reaction whenever SWG came up in conversation was "Oh joy, EQ in space". I even felt this way. And every single beta tester I knew was pissed that Spaceflight wasn't going to be part of the initial release. We warned them that this was a HUGE mistake. They did not listen.

People were NOT looking forward to it. It had no space flight. Remember: Up till this point there had been only TWO types of Star Wars games: Action/FPS and Action/Spaceflight. The only ATTEMPT at an "RPG" of Star Wars had been "rogue squadron" which was a piece of garbage. (don't believe me go look up sales figures. Rogue Squadron (the 3d video game) had the WORST sales numbers of any star wars title to date at that point in time.

Shayde · January 2006

Wow.. SWG Post-JTL with all the new content and expansions would just ROCK.

Too bad $OE is run by morons.

To expand on the "SWG should have been big at launch".. Smed daid at launch that they were intentionally doing a soft launch, with NO advertisment and relying on word-of-mouth. Now THAT'S a bucket of dumb right there.

anarchyart · January 2006

Originally posted by Shayde

To expand on the "SWG should have been big at launch".. Smed said at launch that they were intentionally doing a soft launch, with NO advertisment and relying on word-of-mouth. Now THAT'S a bucket of dumb right there.

Wow, that is sooo stupid. Word of mouth is the last thing that should have done their advertising.

seabass2003 · January 2006

Probably because Lucas ruined Star Wars in general, I mean come on does anyone prefer the new 3 Star Wars movies over the old 3 Star Wars. Me personally I thought the new 3 depended way to much on technology and not enough on storyline. "Oh no I cut off Samuel L. Jackson's arm, I pledge to you my master." The End.

Shayde · January 2006

Yeah.. when I saw that article, and where he said that.. I thought that was the first error that buried this game. If they'd have spend half the ad dollars at launch that they spent this year, they'd have had a mil at launch... EASY.

Jodokai · January 2006

Originally posted by Shayde

Wow.. SWG Post-JTL with all the new content and expansions would just ROCK.
Too bad $OE is run by morons.
To expand on the "SWG should have been big at launch".. Smed daid at launch that they were intentionally doing a soft launch, with NO advertisment and relying on word-of-mouth. Now THAT'S a bucket of dumb right there.

This might have been more believable if SOE was in charge of marketing. They aren't, LucasArts is.

Shayde · January 2006

Originally posted by Jodokai
Originally posted by Shayde
Wow.. SWG Post-JTL with all the new content and expansions would just ROCK.
Too bad $OE is run by morons.
To expand on the "SWG should have been big at launch".. Smed daid at launch that they were intentionally doing a soft launch, with NO advertisment and relying on word-of-mouth. Now THAT'S a bucket of dumb right there.This might have been more believable if SOE was in charge of marketing. They aren't, LucasArts is.

I posted the whole freaking article from a couple years ago.. feel free to look it up. When he said "They" were doing the soft launch, he didn't say "I". He was using the "We" as the whole project. What did you expect him to say.. "We're doing a soft launch.. well Lucasarts is actually in charge of the marketing, but that isn't important.. really... where was I?"

"Can we get a fricking clue here?" - Dr. Evil

Jodokai · January 2006

Originally posted by Shayde

I posted the whole freaking article from a couple years ago.. feel free to look it up. When he said "They" were doing the soft launch, he didn't say "I". He was using the "We" as the whole project. What did you expect him to say.. "We're doing a soft launch.. well Lucasarts is actually in charge of the marketing, but that isn't important.. really... where was I?"
"Can we get a fricking clue here?" - Dr. Evil

Where did you post the article? I would LOVE to read it. You'll forgive me for not taking your word for it, but you're also the guy that likes to say SOE lied when someone from LucasArts says something.

Then I'm a little confused: In your post you say SOE is stupid, and quote this article, yet then you say "We" meaning you were including LucasArts? So SOE is stupid because LucasArts decided to do a soft launch?

Now tell me again how you don't believe LucasArts has had anything to do with SWG until recently. Yeah I'm the one that needs a clue.

Chastity · January 2006

I'm starting to think that there's no hope for a SWG online game because LA will interfere too much with the game. I believe that was a major problem with SWG (I have no objective proof of this, but I look at SOE's handling of EQ and EQ2, and both games have been at least reasonably well run, nothing like the fiasco of SWG. LA must be partly responsible).

The whole history of development in SWG suggests to me that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I mean, they evidently have one of the largest dev teams in online gaming, and they still push out unfinished crap like the NGE and then fix it in game (at least mostly) while their paying players are acting as beta testers. And they're still doing and completely unrepentant about having done it for over two years. They issue contradictory press releases and game information (witness the Trials content for soon to be axed professions). I'm sure they have adequate talent to fix the game, but it seems it's about as badly managed as it's possible for it to be. And having a two headed management team (SOE/LA) may well be at the root of the problem.

So anyway, I doubt any company could make a game like this work. Pessimistic, but there you have it.

--Chastity Nightdancer

Elnator · January 2006

Originally posted by seabass2003
Probably because Lucas ruined Star Wars in general, I mean come on does anyone prefer the new 3 Star Wars movies over the old 3 Star Wars. Me personally I thought the new 3 depended way to much on technology and not enough on storyline. "Oh no I cut off Samuel L. Jackson's arm, I pledge to you my master." The End.

EP1 and EP2 weren't all that hot. But yeah I like EPIII better than any of the first 3 except Empire. I'd rate the movies as follows:

1: EPV
2: EPIII
3: EPVI
4: EPIV
5: EPII
6: EPI

Jodokai · January 2006

Originally posted by Elnator

EP1 and EP2 weren't all that hot. But yeah I like EPIII better than any of the first 3 except Empire. I'd rate the movies as follows:
1: EPV
2: EPIII
3: EPVI
4: EPIV
5: EPII
6: EPI

You liked RotJ better than A New Hope?? Shame on you, picking ewoks over X-Wings.

Elnator · January 2006

Originally posted by Jodokai
Originally posted by Elnator EP1 and EP2 weren't all that hot. But yeah I like EPIII better than any of the first 3 except Empire. I'd rate the movies as follows:
1: EPV2: EPIII3: EPVI4: EPIV5: EPII6: EPI
You liked RotJ better than A New Hope?? Shame on you, picking ewoks over X-Wings.

Err... there were a LOT more X-Wings, and Tie fighters, and fight scenes, in Jedi than in ANH... a LOT more.... The Ewoks were 'ok' and added a touch of humor. ANH was a damn western in space. Not to mention the acting in Jedi was TONS better than in ANH.

Shayde · January 2006

Empire
Hope
Jedi
Sith
Clones
Clone Wars Miniseries
X-mas Special
Ep 1

duncan_922 · January 2006

Commenting on the OP, people are taking that article as an absolute fact when it's not. To me it sounds more like wishful thinking on the part of SOE that they'll be producing an SWG 2.

Shayde · January 2006

Originally posted by duncan_922
Commenting on the OP, people are taking that article as an absolute fact when it's not. To me it sounds more like wishful thinking on the part of SOE that they'll be producing an SWG 2.

Yeah.. but it doesn't look good when they're already talking about it like they have the contract. Kinda like when the wife yo want to divorce tells you she's late.

duncan_922 · January 2006

OUCH!

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Why would Lucas reward SOE with ANOTHER SWG game ???

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