Originally posted by Necromage Crowd Sourcing is a dangerous gamble for gamers because in the end the game that we funded may not come out and we get nothing back.
Most haven't spend as much as people who bought Lifetime Subs to MMOs like SWTOR, CO, STO, ect... Believe me when I say that most of them didn't last long in those games when they went live. Any game purchase is a risk. The only thing that you can do is try to educate yourself and hope for the best. Even the Highest rated game will have some people that hate it for differing reasons. Crowd Funding is a risk but no more than any game purchase really when you haven't tried it first. Just food for thought.
Bren
No it's a bigger risk because the game doesn't exist yet and there's a chance it may never exist.
People need to stop thinking of this as, 'buing', something. It's not, your donating money to a profit making company in the hopes they might make something resembling a pitch video. It's free investment for them, which is why it's so dangerous to a donater.
I won't go over again why that is, said it enough times, but at least with lifetime subs and other games these things actually exist when someone bought them. You have more rights as a customer, as a donater you have none.
i know dozens of people that blow entire paychecks on a weekend of hard partying....and all they are left with are head splitting hang overs and a significant less amount of brain cells.......
even if this game is a total flop, a few hundred $$ wasted on a game it's not the end of the world. let people spend their money how they wish.
Well said. While I haven't spent as much as some, I've spent more than others and I'm perfectly happy with how they're proceeding and have no complaints whatsoever. Even if I wind up not liking the game, as long as it's successful I will be happy as the current way games are funded and designed has got to change if we're going to get any innovation back in the genre.
What concerns me the most about rationalizations like the one above is the golem effect; what further motivation does the team have to deliver if the funders' expectations have already been met? Hopefully this is not indicative of a larger trend within the Star Citizen community as a whole.
As far as innovation goes... that's a tricky animal. It has to be part re-combination, part inspiration, and a lot of hard work. Personally, I don't find much conceptually innovative about Star Citizen; what I think will make or break this game is going to be how they pull it off.
There's really not much that is new about this game: we've seen online multiplayer space games (I've only been playing one for the past 10 years or so) in persistent galaxies with twitch and non-twitch combat. Landing on procedural planets has been planned by many games for many years. I understand Star Citizen is using CryEngine, which is not their own.
What keeps running in my head is an early hangar module demo (I think this was around 9 mil or so) where they showed the main character scratching his butt. Someone was paid to program this. Maybe I lack a sense of humor about the whole thing, but from my perspective this... phenomenon... is heading fast into tragic territory.
There's not a thing I can or would do about it, but I feel for those who have spent more than they would have on a night out with friends. I've spent much more than this in subscription fees, but at least I have some real memories involving actual gameplay as a result. I hope that Star Citizen doesn't flop. It would be a good thing for the genre if Star Citizen were a success. I just can't get around the feeling that this quid pro quo pledge model is evil.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Originally posted by IsilithTehroth Wrong the dogfighting was already done to lure people to kickstart the game intitially. After finding out he didn't need it to get people to fork over cash he just decided to take his time "adjusting the game for final outcome" whatever that is suppose to mean, when its only a prototype portion of the game regardless.
Not even close to right. Nothing was "done" in any sense of the word. Chris Roberts had a mockup of the Bengal, the Hornet, and the Scythe and had them flying around scripted. He also had a small rudimentary sandbox mode that let him fly around those other models. Nothing more.
Originally posted by IsilithTehroth Actually Starcitizen was being developed before they joined kickstarter. Kickstarter was just a gauge to see how many people might play. Then the huge amounts of cash came rolling in and CR decided to keep adding features to the game, which I doubt they can accomplish by their deadline, speaking of which has been pushed back multiple times for different things; ie dogfighting.
They were funded by a seperate entinty before kick starter and I assume they paid back that debt and have no "debt" besides the expectation of a good game from their backers. The game currently is a Pay to Win faster; while not strickly pay to win indefinately, P2WF allows advantages for a certain period of time for those whom bought ships, or will purchase UEC credits from the store.
It was only being developed by Chris Roberts, with Rob Irving and Eric Peterson jumping in a bit later. That's it. As for "adding features", very little has been added to goal of the game. Most of the stuff they have shown, was going to be in the game anyways, once they utilized their investors after crowd funding stopped. It was ALWAYS meant to be a 23 million dollar game.
Also, they didnt have any active investment before the crowdfunding. Just promises. Everything you see in the crowdfunding video was developed with Chris Roberts' own money. A million IIRC.
My problem is not that he takes people money, i bought 2 packages , my problem is that they don;t deliver . It was suposed that we play dogfight module and is not here.
You can invent all the excuses you want, i feel burned and start feeling sorry for not putting this money in ELITE which seems to keep promises and does not seem to become a pay 2 something. Now i would have had playing elite dangerous instead of reading forums.
And exactly when did he or anyone at CIG "Promise" you a Dogfighting Module... or any Module for that matter? The Modular design was not even thought of at the start of the Fund Raising campaign. This was something he came up with after as a Thank You for the Community and to give something back before the "Alpha" stage. You were promised nothing except that you could "Alpha Test".
As for Elite... You do realize that their Kickstarter was to finish an already well into development project and not to start a company and a totally new project? Their development for Elite was well underway before their fund raising campaign. SC had a tech demo... A rather impressive tech demo but just a tech demo all the same. I'm not trying to slight Elite here just stating why comparing Elite's development time to SC's isn't really fair as their game was well into production well before SC was.
"The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha"
They did, hell its even on the kickstarter page.
OP. Let me ask you a question. How many games have a Cash shop before there is even an alpha? How many games let you buy in game currency before there is even an alpha? If this was not SC how many people would put up with those two things already in the game? How about the fact that CIG have distributed more Cash shop items than anything else? They have even added more cash shop items. How about the fact that they added a firing range that many backers can't even use, and would have to spend money in the cash shop in order to use? So far the only thing CIG have produced is a hangar and a cash shop to spend money in. This is not even the first time that CIG have added content to the Hangar that you had to spend extra money on, how about the buggy ramps and tracks? How about CR in the AMD showcase lying when he said that the buggy came with larger hangars?
So far CIG actions are no different than many F2P games that are currently out, and yet the big difference is that CIG is praised for it while the F2P game are bashed for it.
All true man but doesnt that say something?...that players are willing to put up with it even at such an early stage. All I hear is that people who do not pladge complain about the money others pladge :S
Also you omited was delivered and all that is being added becose of extra funding.
I am mostly worried that the project has become overambitious.
It says that people are desperate for this type of game and will throw money at it no matter what the Dev do. Yes I have pledged for this game, for the same reason many people have, we played Wing Commander/Privateer and want that back. This type of game does not get made anymore, or at least not that often, and when it does it Meh at best. So we throw money at a memory, and can't see what is happening right now.
CIG have stated that they wish they had not done LTI, but then they release two NEW ships with LTI on the last day. CIG have stated they want feedback from the backers but then you have CR stating that backers are just bitching when they bring up a valid problem (Freelancer FOV). The backers were sold the idea that backers would get to test the game at its stages, this has not happened. Even the cash shop has permanent purchases. CIG ask people to test the new Fire Range but if you have a Freelancer or Cutlass only package you can't do that, they give all backers 1k in game currency but you can only buy a single poster with that and even that was only because the backers went on a rampage when in game Posters cost $5 when it was first released. Even now you can buy weapons and they cost from $4-8 each, so good luck testing anything.
We then have the statement from CR stating that they Dog Fighting that CIG said they would release to backers (in the kickstarter page) was only a means of them making more money, but now that they have all the money they need they don't need to produce anything anymore until they want to. In other words CIG said we have your money so F off.
Actions speak louder than words and right now CIG have shown that they are just all about the money, even after getting fully founded.
You do of course have links to all these supposed quotes right?
I'm really tempted to give money towards this game, but I have 3 issues:
1) I've been screwed over before by SWTOR (Collector's Edition)
2) Buying a good ship could actually gimp your game, because games are generally all about the progression, rather than reaching the end game in one single stroke.
3) It's tempting to buy an exploration ship, however, Star Citizen is primarily about dogfighting - so the best choice is probably the 'vanilla' Hornet so it can be customised, if wanted.
I'm really tempted to give money towards this game, but I have 3 issues:
1) I've been screwed over before by SWTOR (Collector's Edition)
2) Buying a good ship could actually gimp your game, because games are generally all about the progression, rather than reaching the end game in one single stroke.
3) It's tempting to buy an exploration ship, however, Star Citizen is primarily about dogfighting - so the best choice is probably the 'vanilla' Hornet so it can be customised, if wanted.
I just got the basic, cheapest package. I intend to actually play the game to progress. It's a strange concept I think for a lot of the SC backers to understand.
The only entity allowed to "TAKE" your money is the government. Because they are above the law and better then the rest of us. They know best and we don't. Every other legal transaction you make is by choice. Just though I would pinch this loaf of knowledge here for ya bud.
I'm really tempted to give money towards this game, but I have 3 issues:
1) I've been screwed over before by SWTOR (Collector's Edition)
2) Buying a good ship could actually gimp your game, because games are generally all about the progression, rather than reaching the end game in one single stroke.
3) It's tempting to buy an exploration ship, however, Star Citizen is primarily about dogfighting - so the best choice is probably the 'vanilla' Hornet so it can be customised, if wanted.
To play the game, even after launch, you will have to buy a package. I don't think packages will be in their current form, but CR has stated the game is going to be a b2p model like GW2 is.
Anyway, if you buy an appropriate package you will get access to the hanger module.
Also, the game is supposed to be about exploring, gathering, bounty hunting, etc. We shall see how that pans out.
it is nothing but promises and taking people's money for a product that is not yet fit for sale.Of course by going the new wave era of so called FREE to play,they can escape any legal issues about purposely trying to sell an unfit product,instead they call it donations of buying into the development process [this one is a big lol]your NEVER part of the dev process weather you think you are or not.
Now in saying this game COULD turn out great,who i am to say,after all i just finished saying there is no game yet to judge anything by.However as is right this moment there is nothing to go on that is worthy of a sale of any kind.THAT is why this type of new age profiting off of naive gamer's is very corrupt far i am concerned.Ya i know they are grown adults they can look after their own money,well same thing happened years ago when for example Canada did not want casinos.It is because many people do not use good judgement ,those are the type of people that get taken advantage of ,that is why there is consumer laws against businesses trying to sell people unfit products,well keyword "Knowingly" sell unfit products.
Thing about opinions and discussions is yes i listen to yours you listen to mine but i know the end result,you hand over money based on promises and what you perceive to be a future product.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
it is nothing but promises and taking people's money for a product that is not yet fit for sale.Of course by going the new wave era of so called FREE to play,they can escape any legal issues about purposely trying to sell an unfit product,instead they call it donations of buying into the development process [this one is a big lol]your NEVER part of the dev process weather you think you are or not.
Now in saying this game COULD turn out great,who i am to say,after all i just finished saying there is no game yet to judge anything by.However as is right this moment there is nothing to go on that is worthy of a sale of any kind.THAT is why this type of new age profiting off of naive gamer's is very corrupt far i am concerned.Ya i know they are grown adults they can look after their own money,well same thing happened years ago when for example Canada did not want casinos.It is because many people do not use good judgement ,those are the type of people that get taken advantage of ,that is why there is consumer laws against businesses trying to sell people unfit products,well keyword "Knowingly" sell unfit products.
Thing about opinions and discussions is yes i listen to yours you listen to mine but i know the end result,you hand over money based on promises and what you perceive to be a future product.
A man and his mission. To spread as much Kick Starter hate as possible. Bah ...... some of your points however are quite correct about SC and in general. Aside from a First/Third Person run around in your hanger, hop in your ship that doesn't fly, shoot some lame targets and watch your fish swim ...... there is no Star Citizen game to play.
I'm curious though, if and when one of these KS games, that was built on the backs of idiots, becomes the greatest thing since sliced bread would you purchase it then? Will you thank the idiots for financing the change that is so desperately needed in the industry? Or will you think to yourself "Hell No, that's one of those idiot Kick Starter games, I refuse to play."
On a side note .... don't forget to help support these greedy tools. Another indi studio out to rip everyone off. Only a couple days left throw your money away on it.
Chris Roberts is someone who has a history in the video game industry. He's made many games that thousands of people have played and enjoyed, with that, he has credibility as a game developer.
That said, I am more than willing to donate some money, and get a small neat ship in the process for something I want to see released. Having donated money, I know it's an investment, which means it -can- turn out to be something really great, or mediocre, but I knew the risk and responsibility of said investment.
My advice to anyone looking to invest into a game, is do your research on your games developers!!!
Ask yourself:
Are they credible?
Do you like the idea(s) they're putting forward?
Are you financially stable enough to make an investment?
If so, and if you feel comfortable enough, then go ahead and support it.
I would suggest not donating money to people who have little to no history in the video game industry. Common sense is all it takes.
Elite and SC are totally diff games imo, Elite is an arcade shooter style while SC is a space sim, its like comparing COD to Red orchestra, both good games in their own right but no where near the same game.
Actually I think you will find it's the other way round. Elite is more of a sim, with a massive procedural universe and complex mechanics. SC is the shooter, with a small universe and focus on action within set "maps".
I see buying a package in SC for $30 as a speculation. Risk VS reward and if Chris Roberts pulls it off you'll get the single player game "Squadron 42" and SC. For $40 you get to alpha and beta test as well as the other benefits.
If Chris Roberts flees to the Bahamas with a bag of coke and 50 hookers then so be it, I'm a big boy, I'll survive.
If you think he's a con artist, save your $30 for something else, no big deal.
But when you're playing Star Citizen and you see my Avenger appear from behind an asteroid ... your gonna wish you had a better ship and had spent time in alpha and beta learning not to die horribly ... MUAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Richard Garriott is buying dinosaur bones and Mammoth tusks with your donations. Don't believe me? Saw him on Oddities. He has millions of dollars worth of natural history and memorabilia items in his home. Think he bought all that with Wing Commander money? Don't think so...
Richard Garriott is buying dinosaur bones and Mammoth tusks with your donations. Don't believe me? Saw him on Oddities. He has millions of dollars worth of natural history and memorabilia items in his home. Think he bought all that with Wing Commander money? Don't think so...
Richard Garriott is buying dinosaur bones and Mammoth tusks with your donations. Don't believe me? Saw him on Oddities. He has millions of dollars worth of natural history and memorabilia items in his home. Think he bought all that with Wing Commander money? Don't think so...
Richard Garriott is buying dinosaur bones and Mammoth tusks with your donations. Don't believe me? Saw him on Oddities. He has millions of dollars worth of natural history and memorabilia items in his home. Think he bought all that with Wing Commander money? Don't think so...
You people paid for him to buy a Sputnik satellite. Do you have any idea how much that must have cost?
I'm still trying to figure out what this post has to do with Star Citizen.
Somebody please make him a drawing.
Considering the video was uploaded years before his kickstarter, not sure what it has to do with anything.
It finally proves that the moon landing was a hoax, and pretty much that Chris Roberts is actually using the SC project to get SKYNET up and running. You see, his real name is John Connor. But don't tell anyone I told you.
Charr: Outta my way. Human: What's your problem? Charr: Your thin skin.
Richard Garriott is buying dinosaur bones and Mammoth tusks with your donations. Don't believe me? Saw him on Oddities. He has millions of dollars worth of natural history and memorabilia items in his home. Think he bought all that with Wing Commander money? Don't think so...
You people paid for him to buy a Sputnik satellite. Do you have any idea how much that must have cost?
I'm still trying to figure out what this post has to do with Star Citizen.
Somebody please make him a drawing.
Considering the video was uploaded years before his kickstarter, not sure what it has to do with anything.
Pretty sure he's implying origin staff are just collecting money from gamers to buy obscure paraphernalia for themselves... You know, as opposed to the board members of EA, Activision and SEO buying themselves boats and fancy cars and golf resorts. *rolls eyes*
People actually run a business to make money to buy themselves things!? Mind blowing...
As for Starr Citizen you get what you pay for. I payed a lot because I expect a lot. Other people of a similar mind mean a lot will now be delivered as a result. One of the joys of crowdfunding. I don't expect a perfect game, just a good one that raises the bar slightly. That's worth paying for to make happen for a change. Especially in this genre.
As far as I'm concerned after they stop collecting crowd funding and launch the game they deserve to make a packet on post launch sales of the game and as far as I'm concerned the team members can spend it on whatever they want at that point.
I only wonder one thing: What initiative will they have to develop a real good game if they got all the revenues in front no strings attached.
He can even stop developing now and nobody would be able to do nothing. Or he can just deliver crappy buggy game and walk away .. they allready sold the game.
It will soon be apparent that these kickstarters are real bad idea
The bad idea is believing that the general populous has any clue what to do with their money. Most people are lost when it comes to seeing potential in investments.
The initiative is future income. They really gain nothing by walking away. Considering how stupid the MMORPG player base is, they could release no information, game play footage or anything to anyone and put it up for sale and probably sell millions of box copies. If they already have the game paid for upfront like you say, it's a win/win for them no matter how bad the game is.
The only risk taken here was whether they get funded in the first place. A fool and their money is soon parted.
The highlighted is one of the most important points in this whole star citizen conversation that everyone seems to be missing, they are already at 41million dollars, how many more people interested in this game do you think are left to buy the game when its released? It seems to me their income graph is probably flat lining at this stage slowly but certainly they will reach a peak of how much they can get from people interested in this game.
This is definitely something to be worried about, they have basically milked their target audience already, I am not sure there will be a lot more money to be made from new purchases if this ever releases.
I only wonder one thing: What initiative will they have to develop a real good game if they got all the revenues in front no strings attached.
He can even stop developing now and nobody would be able to do nothing. Or he can just deliver crappy buggy game and walk away .. they allready sold the game.
It will soon be apparent that these kickstarters are real bad idea
The bad idea is believing that the general populous has any clue what to do with their money. Most people are lost when it comes to seeing potential in investments.
The initiative is future income. They really gain nothing by walking away. Considering how stupid the MMORPG player base is, they could release no information, game play footage or anything to anyone and put it up for sale and probably sell millions of box copies. If they already have the game paid for upfront like you say, it's a win/win for them no matter how bad the game is.
The only risk taken here was whether they get funded in the first place. A fool and their money is soon parted.
The highlighted is one of the most important points in this whole star citizen conversation that everyone seems to be missing, they are already at 41million dollars, how many more people interested in this game do you think are left to buy the game when its released? It seems to me their income graph is probably flat lining at this stage slowly but certainly they will reach a peak of how much they can get from people interested in this game.
This is definitely something to be worried about, they have basically milked their target audience already, I am not sure there will be a lot more money to be made from new purchases if this ever releases.
Since you posted this they have broken 42 million and in the last day have raised over 250k. Your statement is an opinion not solidified in fact and mine is a fact. As the game continues to develop and they hit major milestones you will see even more money being invested. This project has the potential to change the entire process of game development. It gives talented individuals the platform to not only crowd fund, but also contract work to the best talent. It allows games to be made at a much faster rate because your not relying on employees of a publisher.
My major concern with this title is that they are so obsessed with the details of making everything perfect that they don't get a grasp of what makes an mmo. That being said I am going to give Chris Roberts the benefit of the doubt and the chance I gave studios like SOE.
I do not believe Chris Roberts is taking anyones money. I think he honestly wants to pull this project off, I just think the estimates of how much work is involved is terrible.
To be pushing back the release date this many times on the first 'core module' of the game makes me wonder if they know what they are doing outside of making graphics pretty.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I do not believe Chris Roberts is taking anyones money. I think he honestly wants to pull this project off, I just think the estimates of how much work is involved is terrible.
To be pushing back the release date this many times on the first 'core module' of the game makes me wonder if they know what they are doing outside of making graphics pretty.
Of course not. It's something I've said over and over again about every indie project that gets announced. It's actually very easy to put together a graphics demo with some proof of concept type shots. It's something entirely different to manage a project when you have no PM skills.
For example, it was a very stupid decision to divert dev resources into oculus rift. I bet it was/is a lot of fun for the devs, though. Getting to play around with VR tech and stuff, while milestones (if they existed) pass by.
I do not believe Chris Roberts is taking anyones money. I think he honestly wants to pull this project off, I just think the estimates of how much work is involved is terrible.
To be pushing back the release date this many times on the first 'core module' of the game makes me wonder if they know what they are doing outside of making graphics pretty.
Of course not. It's something I've said over and over again about every indie project that gets announced. It's actually very easy to put together a graphics demo with some proof of concept type shots. It's something entirely different to manage a project when you have no PM skills.
For example, it was a very stupid decision to divert dev resources into oculus rift. I bet it was/is a lot of fun for the devs, though. Getting to play around with VR tech and stuff, while milestones (if they existed) pass by.
1. what is happening to Star Citizen around bad PM skills (which I agree) is not an exmaple of indies. mainstream AAA games are just as bad at it, cost more and have less quality. I think all the games I have played in the last 5 years have been indies. Having said that, Star Citizen project has problems.
2. Oculus Rift is a natural fit for Star Citizen and its a very good idea to spend resources building the product in a way that can use OR later, rather than building a code base that will not adapt.
Looking for success stories on indies? try everywhere.. indies completely smash AAA in quality and cost.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
No it's a bigger risk because the game doesn't exist yet and there's a chance it may never exist.
People need to stop thinking of this as, 'buing', something. It's not, your donating money to a profit making company in the hopes they might make something resembling a pitch video. It's free investment for them, which is why it's so dangerous to a donater.
I won't go over again why that is, said it enough times, but at least with lifetime subs and other games these things actually exist when someone bought them. You have more rights as a customer, as a donater you have none.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
What concerns me the most about rationalizations like the one above is the golem effect; what further motivation does the team have to deliver if the funders' expectations have already been met? Hopefully this is not indicative of a larger trend within the Star Citizen community as a whole.
As far as innovation goes... that's a tricky animal. It has to be part re-combination, part inspiration, and a lot of hard work. Personally, I don't find much conceptually innovative about Star Citizen; what I think will make or break this game is going to be how they pull it off.
There's really not much that is new about this game: we've seen online multiplayer space games (I've only been playing one for the past 10 years or so) in persistent galaxies with twitch and non-twitch combat. Landing on procedural planets has been planned by many games for many years. I understand Star Citizen is using CryEngine, which is not their own.
What keeps running in my head is an early hangar module demo (I think this was around 9 mil or so) where they showed the main character scratching his butt. Someone was paid to program this. Maybe I lack a sense of humor about the whole thing, but from my perspective this... phenomenon... is heading fast into tragic territory.
There's not a thing I can or would do about it, but I feel for those who have spent more than they would have on a night out with friends. I've spent much more than this in subscription fees, but at least I have some real memories involving actual gameplay as a result. I hope that Star Citizen doesn't flop. It would be a good thing for the genre if Star Citizen were a success. I just can't get around the feeling that this quid pro quo pledge model is evil.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Not even close to right. Nothing was "done" in any sense of the word. Chris Roberts had a mockup of the Bengal, the Hornet, and the Scythe and had them flying around scripted. He also had a small rudimentary sandbox mode that let him fly around those other models. Nothing more.
It was only being developed by Chris Roberts, with Rob Irving and Eric Peterson jumping in a bit later. That's it. As for "adding features", very little has been added to goal of the game. Most of the stuff they have shown, was going to be in the game anyways, once they utilized their investors after crowd funding stopped. It was ALWAYS meant to be a 23 million dollar game.
Also, they didnt have any active investment before the crowdfunding. Just promises. Everything you see in the crowdfunding video was developed with Chris Roberts' own money. A million IIRC.
You do of course have links to all these supposed quotes right?
I'm really tempted to give money towards this game, but I have 3 issues:
1) I've been screwed over before by SWTOR (Collector's Edition)
2) Buying a good ship could actually gimp your game, because games are generally all about the progression, rather than reaching the end game in one single stroke.
3) It's tempting to buy an exploration ship, however, Star Citizen is primarily about dogfighting - so the best choice is probably the 'vanilla' Hornet so it can be customised, if wanted.
I just got the basic, cheapest package. I intend to actually play the game to progress. It's a strange concept I think for a lot of the SC backers to understand.
I kicked in money, but let's face it: what are the odds that they actually come up with a first class game that is also fun?
Especially considering that, even though they've raised a lot of money, they still have only a fraction of what a game like SWTOR cost.
On the other hand, collectively they've worked on a lot of good games.
Hard to say. I regard it as an experiment. I don't think I would do it again until I see how this one works out.
To play the game, even after launch, you will have to buy a package. I don't think packages will be in their current form, but CR has stated the game is going to be a b2p model like GW2 is.
Anyway, if you buy an appropriate package you will get access to the hanger module.
Also, the game is supposed to be about exploring, gathering, bounty hunting, etc. We shall see how that pans out.
Op i will cut it short,there is NO game !.
it is nothing but promises and taking people's money for a product that is not yet fit for sale.Of course by going the new wave era of so called FREE to play,they can escape any legal issues about purposely trying to sell an unfit product,instead they call it donations of buying into the development process [this one is a big lol]your NEVER part of the dev process weather you think you are or not.
Now in saying this game COULD turn out great,who i am to say,after all i just finished saying there is no game yet to judge anything by.However as is right this moment there is nothing to go on that is worthy of a sale of any kind.THAT is why this type of new age profiting off of naive gamer's is very corrupt far i am concerned.Ya i know they are grown adults they can look after their own money,well same thing happened years ago when for example Canada did not want casinos.It is because many people do not use good judgement ,those are the type of people that get taken advantage of ,that is why there is consumer laws against businesses trying to sell people unfit products,well keyword "Knowingly" sell unfit products.
Thing about opinions and discussions is yes i listen to yours you listen to mine but i know the end result,you hand over money based on promises and what you perceive to be a future product.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
A man and his mission. To spread as much Kick Starter hate as possible. Bah ...... some of your points however are quite correct about SC and in general. Aside from a First/Third Person run around in your hanger, hop in your ship that doesn't fly, shoot some lame targets and watch your fish swim ...... there is no Star Citizen game to play.
I'm curious though, if and when one of these KS games, that was built on the backs of idiots, becomes the greatest thing since sliced bread would you purchase it then? Will you thank the idiots for financing the change that is so desperately needed in the industry? Or will you think to yourself "Hell No, that's one of those idiot Kick Starter games, I refuse to play."
On a side note .... don't forget to help support these greedy tools. Another indi studio out to rip everyone off. Only a couple days left throw your money away on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MefZfhxgpZE
http://www.straightdope.com/
For me it's simple,
Chris Roberts is someone who has a history in the video game industry. He's made many games that thousands of people have played and enjoyed, with that, he has credibility as a game developer.
That said, I am more than willing to donate some money, and get a small neat ship in the process for something I want to see released. Having donated money, I know it's an investment, which means it -can- turn out to be something really great, or mediocre, but I knew the risk and responsibility of said investment.
My advice to anyone looking to invest into a game, is do your research on your games developers!!!
Ask yourself:
Are they credible?
Do you like the idea(s) they're putting forward?
Are you financially stable enough to make an investment?
If so, and if you feel comfortable enough, then go ahead and support it.
I would suggest not donating money to people who have little to no history in the video game industry. Common sense is all it takes.
Actually I think you will find it's the other way round. Elite is more of a sim, with a massive procedural universe and complex mechanics. SC is the shooter, with a small universe and focus on action within set "maps".
I see buying a package in SC for $30 as a speculation. Risk VS reward and if Chris Roberts pulls it off you'll get the single player game "Squadron 42" and SC. For $40 you get to alpha and beta test as well as the other benefits.
If Chris Roberts flees to the Bahamas with a bag of coke and 50 hookers then so be it, I'm a big boy, I'll survive.
If you think he's a con artist, save your $30 for something else, no big deal.
But when you're playing Star Citizen and you see my Avenger appear from behind an asteroid ... your gonna wish you had a better ship and had spent time in alpha and beta learning not to die horribly ... MUAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I'm still trying to figure out what this post has to do with Star Citizen.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Somebody please make him a drawing.
On the bright side we will all play DF module in april right ?
Considering the video was uploaded years before his kickstarter, not sure what it has to do with anything.
It finally proves that the moon landing was a hoax, and pretty much that Chris Roberts is actually using the SC project to get SKYNET up and running. You see, his real name is John Connor. But don't tell anyone I told you.
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
Pretty sure he's implying origin staff are just collecting money from gamers to buy obscure paraphernalia for themselves... You know, as opposed to the board members of EA, Activision and SEO buying themselves boats and fancy cars and golf resorts. *rolls eyes*
People actually run a business to make money to buy themselves things!? Mind blowing...
As for Starr Citizen you get what you pay for. I payed a lot because I expect a lot. Other people of a similar mind mean a lot will now be delivered as a result. One of the joys of crowdfunding. I don't expect a perfect game, just a good one that raises the bar slightly. That's worth paying for to make happen for a change. Especially in this genre.
As far as I'm concerned after they stop collecting crowd funding and launch the game they deserve to make a packet on post launch sales of the game and as far as I'm concerned the team members can spend it on whatever they want at that point.
The highlighted is one of the most important points in this whole star citizen conversation that everyone seems to be missing, they are already at 41million dollars, how many more people interested in this game do you think are left to buy the game when its released? It seems to me their income graph is probably flat lining at this stage slowly but certainly they will reach a peak of how much they can get from people interested in this game.
This is definitely something to be worried about, they have basically milked their target audience already, I am not sure there will be a lot more money to be made from new purchases if this ever releases.
Since you posted this they have broken 42 million and in the last day have raised over 250k. Your statement is an opinion not solidified in fact and mine is a fact. As the game continues to develop and they hit major milestones you will see even more money being invested. This project has the potential to change the entire process of game development. It gives talented individuals the platform to not only crowd fund, but also contract work to the best talent. It allows games to be made at a much faster rate because your not relying on employees of a publisher.
My major concern with this title is that they are so obsessed with the details of making everything perfect that they don't get a grasp of what makes an mmo. That being said I am going to give Chris Roberts the benefit of the doubt and the chance I gave studios like SOE.
I do not believe Chris Roberts is taking anyones money. I think he honestly wants to pull this project off, I just think the estimates of how much work is involved is terrible.
To be pushing back the release date this many times on the first 'core module' of the game makes me wonder if they know what they are doing outside of making graphics pretty.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Of course not. It's something I've said over and over again about every indie project that gets announced. It's actually very easy to put together a graphics demo with some proof of concept type shots. It's something entirely different to manage a project when you have no PM skills.
For example, it was a very stupid decision to divert dev resources into oculus rift. I bet it was/is a lot of fun for the devs, though. Getting to play around with VR tech and stuff, while milestones (if they existed) pass by.
You make me like charity
1. what is happening to Star Citizen around bad PM skills (which I agree) is not an exmaple of indies. mainstream AAA games are just as bad at it, cost more and have less quality. I think all the games I have played in the last 5 years have been indies. Having said that, Star Citizen project has problems.
2. Oculus Rift is a natural fit for Star Citizen and its a very good idea to spend resources building the product in a way that can use OR later, rather than building a code base that will not adapt.
Looking for success stories on indies? try everywhere.. indies completely smash AAA in quality and cost.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me