Guess that's why most MMO dev developed instanced Pvp/battleground instead of RvR.
More like grown ups with very limited time to play. Time is luxury for majority of gamers.
More like people who expect devs to consider their personal lives when making games. It doesn't work that way. IF the devs wanted to cater to these types of people they would have created a BG system, they did not.
Don't cry when the majority of the user base leaves because players with wifes, kids, jobs don't have time to play.
Don't forget people with dogs...
Yes just make fun of it. You will cry later.
Cry about what? I don't even know if I'll stick around in this game...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
God forbid we learn anything from previous MMOs! I am by no means a fan of arena PVP, but making a game entirely without is so.... retro. And that is a flattering way to describe it. Some people - a lot of people in regular MMOs - just want a quick PVP fight. They dont want the endless plain of some open PVP. They want a match, short and with a clear goal. Arena PVP.
How can a MMO 2014 launch without?
It's what I don't get. How many times must "we make ALL different" MMO fall on their face until they learn, that it simply never works!?
This is a lesson learned from previous MMO's. If the fighting is not spread out then the only action there can be is zerg vs zerg.
If you want more consistent action, stop reacting to the map and predict where the action will be. Hang around choke points, and lie in wait for the people playing the game the way you were playing it.
ESO so far has been nothing but a zerg. Or you can go PvE. But PvE is much better outside Cyrodill.
Originally posted by bcbully The non-combat time is awesome. It almost feels like a world out there.
Hmm roughly two hours a day to play in evening..spends an hour just running around in empty space.
Then AvA in ESO isn't for you, also it is not the "point" of the game either, there's a whole lot to do with 2hrs, but if you insist on PVPing that 2hrs, there are arena and BG games out there for folks like you who don't have time to play.
I'm still struggling to see why folks who don't have time, insist on playing a genre that have always required time investment in a much larger scale than your average singleplayers or multiplayers and then whine "well i only have this and this many hours"..
So you suggest 80-90% people who bought ESO ask for a refund? Strange
Its actually YOU who is in completely wrong games, AAA games that need million(s) subscribers to survive asking the game to be made for/around tiny minority.
You should stick to niche games that actually cater to YOUR playstyle.
To OP, free ress of any kind would be bad, this was proven in GW2, zergfest is somewhat diminished with the decision to make ressing costly.
ESO is nothing but a zerg. Boring zerg at that. And zergs will only grow in live. And will always win due to poor game performance with 200+ people.
Don't cry when the majority of the user base leaves because players with wifes, kids, jobs don't have time to play.
I've got a quite time-intensive job and a wife (no kids though). I won't quit because I don't have time to play. I actually enjoy the PVP design in ESO. It's fine as it is. Just because you don't like it there's no need to praise doom for the future of a game. MMORPGs are always time-consuming. If you don't have that time you won't start with a game like that.
You might as well find an arena based pvp game imo.
I don't think I'm in the minority in wanting real pvp,.. PVP with objective and rewards, tactics and uncertainties, pride and accomplishment. Eve online would be taking it too far, but there is a place in-between.
God forbid we learn anything from previous MMOs! I am by no means a fan of arena PVP, but making a game entirely without is so.... retro. And that is a flattering way to describe it. Some people - a lot of people in regular MMOs - just want a quick PVP fight. They dont want the endless plain of some open PVP. They want a match, short and with a clear goal. Arena PVP.
How can a MMO 2014 launch without?
It's what I don't get. How many times must "we make ALL different" MMO fall on their face until they learn, that it simply never works!?
This is actually one of the few games an arena would make sense. (Hint hint Fighter's Guild)
Originally posted by bcbully The non-combat time is awesome. It almost feels like a world out there.
Hmm roughly two hours a day to play in evening..spends an hour just running around in empty space.
Then AvA in ESO isn't for you, also it is not the "point" of the game either, there's a whole lot to do with 2hrs, but if you insist on PVPing that 2hrs, there are arena and BG games out there for folks like you who don't have time to play.
I'm still struggling to see why folks who don't have time, insist on playing a genre that have always required time investment in a much larger scale than your average singleplayers or multiplayers and then whine "well i only have this and this many hours"..
So you suggest 80-90% people who bought ESO ask for a refund? Strange
Its actually YOU who is in completely wrong games, AAA games that need million(s) subscribers to survive asking the game to be made for/around tiny minority.
You should stick to niche games that actually cater to YOUR playstyle.
To OP, free ress of any kind would be bad, this was proven in GW2, zergfest is somewhat diminished with the decision to make ressing costly.
ESO is nothing but a zerg. Boring zerg at that. And zergs will only grow in live. And will always win due to poor game performance with 200+ people.
You think calling an open PVP scenario nothing but a zerg is really much of a critique? Folks have been saying that since DAOC and SWG. Yes people said it back then.
It's only a zerg to the guy running around by himself in a team based PVP area.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by muthax Why would an adult 'cry' about a video game?? How old are you? 16?
No less mature than the fanboys who, when faced with any actual critiscism fall back to their go to response of don't like it don't play it.
That is a totally UN-constructive response and is trolling that is considered fair game by the ESO defence force.
The problem with that of devisive and un-constructive response is that is does not address the games issues, or achieve anything more than alienting potential customers who may be currently on the fence.
I am wondering if the apologists will be quite as quick to tell potential customers to leave their game when the subs take a nose dive?
Only then, will you see the sillyness of this type of attitude that cannot accept any opinions that do not match your own.
Totally counter productive.
Can't beat em join em?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Don't cry when the majority of the user base leaves because players with wifes, kids, jobs don't have time to play.
I've got a quite time-intensive job and a wife (no kids though). I won't quit because I don't have time to play. I actually enjoy the PVP design in ESO. It's fine as it is. Just because you don't like it there's no need to praise doom for the future of a game. MMORPGs are always time-consuming. If you don't have that time you won't start with a game like that.
MMO's are time consuming as every other game out there. But, some part of MMO content can't be played in shorter sessions (Dungeons, Raids etc.) because they take longer and you don't have "save" button.
Here in ESO, you can play PVE in shorter sessions (PVE questing), but, you can't play this way in PVP, because it will get you nowhere.
Ok these last hours I tried some more PVPing. Now mind ya, I am a casual PVP player, not one who goes in hourly schedules and filling my calendar with group dates. I just go in and want to have a fun time.
Yeap.. you are a casual pvp and the text below proofs just that.
Now the bottom line for me was: I realized I spent way too less time in actual fighting. I spent about 80-90% NOT fighting for various reasons. Either because I was riding/walkig to the battle. Often it took so long, that once I had reached the battle it was over. Or the sword symbols did only mark some mini battle and I rode over the map in vain. Or some 4-5 gank squad killed me before I got there. And of course the 15-20 minute long wait, watching the balliasta taking down the walls. OR just waiting in hiding after a wipe, waiting for the rest of the zerg to return riding all over the map in 10+ minutes.
So all in all, as I see it, the main flaw in PVP for me is: I spent only 10-20% max in actual fighting.
It is not new at all.. take any usual Multiplayer RTS, take MOBAs or any other PvP game... to get good PvP out of it you have invest time for waiting doing other stuff.. but at the end of the day it is worth it(as long as you are a pvp player and do like pvp.. and with that i do not mean casual beating each other where noone cares about the outcome)
Somehow the rez tents where never there when I needed them, and they cost an arm and a leg, so no surprise.
I have to say, I profoundly loathe the soul gem mechanics. I need ME to pay to rez someone else, which should be a friendly service, not a cost! Yes you can buy empty soul gems, but hell, then you cluster ANOTHER skill on the already tiny skill bar. And you still pay something to rez another. There is just no way I buy stuff to rez other people. Who would do that? Why can't they not just go the GW2 way and let EVERYONE rez anyone else! Or allow some healer class to learn a combat rez, so we have some people who can actually rez WITHOUT needing to invest their heard earned money, which NOBODY does.
The point is.. you have to make long traveling journey to a battle, you have to make rez in the field either rare and limited (high timers) or expensive(so it becomes rare and limited). And it is for the sake of good pvp, it is for the sake of worthy pvp, it is for the sake that a battle can actually end and some side will win. Yeah.. i know some casual pvp, which just want to beat something without caring about the outcome don't care about a end, or about a meaningful, worthy battle.. but be assured pvp players do. Because nothing is worst than a neverending battle with ever joining reinforcements and no winner at the end. Such pvp becomes very fast very boring and almost all player will let it alone.. then you as casual pvper have also nothing to fight.. ok, you don't care a lot about it.
Yes, you can join an UBER PVP guild. But you can also drill a hole in your knee. I fear here the pro PVP guilds will seriously dominate the PVP and give casual PVPers almost NO chance to have any fun experience. And trust me, a lot of people are NOT pro PVPers. Most people just hop in and either they have fun quick, or they never return. Look at GW2. They dropped the ball on their PVP, and now only the servers with PVP pro guilds rule, and all casuals long left the PVP. Given PVP is one of THE elements in any MMO to keep people in the game, a subscription based MMO like ESO simply can't afford to have PVP which is so profoundly casual unfriendly. I still wonder how this PVP system was set together, with such a casual unfriendly setting and so overpowering pro guilds. (Guild Store in PVP zone will just multiply their power EVEN MORE.)
I will say the contrary, a system like ESO(or for that matter DAoC, and ESO is nothing else) is a lot more casual friendly than most pvp systems.. Because here numbers can have an effect.. and casual always need numbers, and get numbers to have those effects. And about pro guilds.. they will usually not be as huge, and especially not all the time. The big zerg running around in ESO(and every realm will have one), will be filled with all those casual pvp players.. thats just a matter of experience learned from DAoC.
*sigh*
And just another note.. it is beta.. at the moment there are no pro guilds.. and at the moment there is not a lot of organization for casual pvpers.. that will change, and it will be make things a little bit easier.. nevertheless you will have to run a lot, and overalll you fighting will be below 50% in pvp alll the time.. even a lot below of that.. but that is always true.
Didn't you post this same thread already during the weekend with practically the same content?
He's always posting the same threads and posts over and over again. Some folks just starve for attention. What he wants destroyed Warhammer Online. My reaction to him, go play WOW cuz this game is too sophisticated for him despite being casual friendly. The game design wasn't meant for what he is requesting and I'm thankful it's not.
I think that was below you.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You might as well find an arena based pvp game imo.
I don't think I'm in the minority in wanting real pvp,.. PVP with objective and rewards, tactics and uncertainties, pride and accomplishment. Eve online would be taking it too far, but there is a place in-between.
God forbid we learn anything from previous MMOs! I am by no means a fan of arena PVP, but making a game entirely without is so.... retro. And that is a flattering way to describe it. Some people - a lot of people in regular MMOs - just want a quick PVP fight. They dont want the endless plain of some open PVP. They want a match, short and with a clear goal. Arena PVP.
How can a MMO 2014 launch without?
It's what I don't get. How many times must "we make ALL different" MMO fall on their face until they learn, that it simply never works!?
This is actually one of the few games an arena would make sense. (Hint hint Fighter's Guild)
I agree, but people feel it would detract from AVA, I disagree. I think it would make perfect sense to open an arena in Cyrodil proper. Another incentive to hold the imperial city, the Emperor sets the frequency of tourneys, the tourneys offering his side boosts due to public happiness. The matches themselves could be open to everyone. But only really help one faction. Unless an opposing faction member becomes champion, then it becomes a power struggle (bonuses toward taking the city/crown) to the champions faction.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You might as well find an arena based pvp game imo.
I don't think I'm in the minority in wanting real pvp,.. PVP with objective and rewards, tactics and uncertainties, pride and accomplishment. Eve online would be taking it too far, but there is a place in-between.
God forbid we learn anything from previous MMOs! I am by no means a fan of arena PVP, but making a game entirely without is so.... retro. And that is a flattering way to describe it. Some people - a lot of people in regular MMOs - just want a quick PVP fight. They dont want the endless plain of some open PVP. They want a match, short and with a clear goal. Arena PVP.
How can a MMO 2014 launch without?
It's what I don't get. How many times must "we make ALL different" MMO fall on their face until they learn, that it simply never works!?
This is actually one of the few games an arena would make sense. (Hint hint Fighter's Guild)
I agree, but people feel it would detract from AVA, I disagree. I think it would make perfect sense to open an arena in Cyrodil proper. Another incentive to hold the imperial city, the Emperor sets the frequency of tourneys, teh tourneys offering his side boosts do to public happiness. The matches themselves could be open to everyone.But only really help one faction. Unless an opposing faction member becomes champion, then it becomes a power struggle (bonuses toward taking the city/crown to the champions faction.
Cyrodiil is going to be in perpetual war, arenas don't make much sense in this context.
Also, to many "serious" PVP players (that doesn't of course include me, I don't like PVP), Arenas are a cancer, a disease.
There are already games that cater to pseudo-PVP, please let's not try to dumb down this game more than it already is. And WAR sank in part because its battlegrounds were emptying the RvR lakes
You might as well find an arena based pvp game imo.
I don't think I'm in the minority in wanting real pvp,.. PVP with objective and rewards, tactics and uncertainties, pride and accomplishment. Eve online would be taking it too far, but there is a place in-between.
God forbid we learn anything from previous MMOs! I am by no means a fan of arena PVP, but making a game entirely without is so.... retro. And that is a flattering way to describe it. Some people - a lot of people in regular MMOs - just want a quick PVP fight. They dont want the endless plain of some open PVP. They want a match, short and with a clear goal. Arena PVP.
How can a MMO 2014 launch without?
It's what I don't get. How many times must "we make ALL different" MMO fall on their face until they learn, that it simply never works!?
This is actually one of the few games an arena would make sense. (Hint hint Fighter's Guild)
I agree, but people feel it would detract from AVA, I disagree. I think it would make perfect sense to open an arena in Cyrodil proper. Another incentive to hold the imperial city, the Emperor sets the frequency of tourneys, teh tourneys offering his side boosts do to public happiness. The matches themselves could be open to everyone.But only really help one faction. Unless an opposing faction member becomes champion, then it becomes a power struggle (bonuses toward taking the city/crown to the champions faction.
Cyrodiil is going to be in perpetual war, arenas don't make much sense in this context.
Also, to many "serious" PVP players (that doesn't of course include me, I don't like PVP), Arenas are a cancer, a disease.
There are already games that cater to pseudo-PVP, please let's not try to dumb down this game more than it already is. And WAR sank in part because its battlegrounds were emptying the RvR lakes
How could this detract from AVA when it would essentially be supported by it? Anyway made a thread on this very thing as this one has far too much fanboi vs hater nonsense going on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is actually one of the few games an arena would make sense. (Hint hint Fighter's Guild)
I agree, but people feel it would detract from AVA, I disagree. I think it would make perfect sense to open an arena in Cyrodil proper. Another incentive to hold the imperial city, the Emperor sets the frequency of tourneys, teh tourneys offering his side boosts do to public happiness. The matches themselves could be open to everyone.But only really help one faction. Unless an opposing faction member becomes champion, then it becomes a power struggle (bonuses toward taking the city/crown to the champions faction.
Cyrodiil is going to be in perpetual war, arenas don't make much sense in this context.
Also, to many "serious" PVP players (that doesn't of course include me, I don't like PVP), Arenas are a cancer, a disease.
There are already games that cater to pseudo-PVP, please let's not try to dumb down this game more than it already is. And WAR sank in part because its battlegrounds were emptying the RvR lakes
It has nothing to do with cyrodil tough.
The fighter's guild arena in oblivion is used to rank up to prove you are strong, this could be also made when you join them people could fight against each other, against npcs maybe and there could be betting as a minigame for spectators.
The arena I'm talking about is not created to please the people but it's there because of the lore so it makes sense to have it in the fighter's guild.
Originally posted by bcbully The non-combat time is awesome. It almost feels like a world out there.
Hmm roughly two hours a day to play in evening..spends an hour just running around in empty space.
Then AvA in ESO isn't for you, also it is not the "point" of the game either, there's a whole lot to do with 2hrs, but if you insist on PVPing that 2hrs, there are arena and BG games out there for folks like you who don't have time to play.
I'm still struggling to see why folks who don't have time, insist on playing a genre that have always required time investment in a much larger scale than your average singleplayers or multiplayers and then whine "well i only have this and this many hours"..
So you suggest 80-90% people who bought ESO ask for a refund? Strange
Its actually YOU who is in completely wrong games, AAA games that need million(s) subscribers to survive asking the game to be made for/around tiny minority.
You should stick to niche games that actually cater to YOUR playstyle.
To OP, free ress of any kind would be bad, this was proven in GW2, zergfest is somewhat diminished with the decision to make ressing costly.
ESO is nothing but a zerg. Boring zerg at that. And zergs will only grow in live. And will always win due to poor game performance with 200+ people.
You think calling an open PVP scenario nothing but a zerg is really much of a critique? Folks have been saying that since DAOC and SWG. Yes people said it back then.
It's only a zerg to the guy running around by himself in a team based PVP area.
Its not a critique, seems you got it a bit messed up.
The thing is Cyrodill is pretty much GW2 WvWvW in a "boring" edition.
If you want to talk about REAL RvR you have to look into true teritory control like Shadowbane. Otherwise theres no need to make things more boring that they need to be.
You might as well find an arena based pvp game imo.
I don't think I'm in the minority in wanting real pvp,.. PVP with objective and rewards, tactics and uncertainties, pride and accomplishment. Eve online would be taking it too far, but there is a place in-between.
God forbid we learn anything from previous MMOs! I am by no means a fan of arena PVP, but making a game entirely without is so.... retro. And that is a flattering way to describe it. Some people - a lot of people in regular MMOs - just want a quick PVP fight. They dont want the endless plain of some open PVP. They want a match, short and with a clear goal. Arena PVP.
How can a MMO 2014 launch without?
It's what I don't get. How many times must "we make ALL different" MMO fall on their face until they learn, that it simply never works!?
This is actually one of the few games an arena would make sense. (Hint hint Fighter's Guild)
I agree, but people feel it would detract from AVA, I disagree. I think it would make perfect sense to open an arena in Cyrodil proper. Another incentive to hold the imperial city, the Emperor sets the frequency of tourneys, teh tourneys offering his side boosts do to public happiness. The matches themselves could be open to everyone.But only really help one faction. Unless an opposing faction member becomes champion, then it becomes a power struggle (bonuses toward taking the city/crown to the champions faction.
Cyrodiil is going to be in perpetual war, arenas don't make much sense in this context.
Also, to many "serious" PVP players (that doesn't of course include me, I don't like PVP), Arenas are a cancer, a disease.
There are already games that cater to pseudo-PVP, please let's not try to dumb down this game more than it already is. And WAR sank in part because its battlegrounds were emptying the RvR lakes
Can't back the OP on this one. If I'm defending a a keep or something and kill a player - I want that player to suffer a sting from death, even if it's a long haul back. And even more importantly, if I'm defending something I want to feel like I'm making progress and accomplishing something. If enemies just come back over and over and over within seconds it is no fun at all and just an endless cycle where you feel killing them has no point almost. Yes that could still happen to a degree with soul stones, but at least that takes some planning and effort to save up instead of just the game letting you rez near the battle free of charge over and over and over
i believe after release in PvP there will be some campaigns which will be crowded (i bet also lag festivals), but yes the long walking distances and the weird res mechanic are turn off ... why dont press"R" and res the goddamnit noob ? i bet in 6months when the game will turn into f2p you will be able to buy these stones with real money lol
Comments
Cry about what? I don't even know if I'll stick around in this game...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah! Running around doing nothing is REAL pvp now!
You heard it here first!
ESO so far has been nothing but a zerg. Or you can go PvE. But PvE is much better outside Cyrodill.
So you suggest 80-90% people who bought ESO ask for a refund? Strange
Its actually YOU who is in completely wrong games, AAA games that need million(s) subscribers to survive asking the game to be made for/around tiny minority.
You should stick to niche games that actually cater to YOUR playstyle.
ESO is nothing but a zerg. Boring zerg at that. And zergs will only grow in live. And will always win due to poor game performance with 200+ people.
I've got a quite time-intensive job and a wife (no kids though). I won't quit because I don't have time to play.
I actually enjoy the PVP design in ESO. It's fine as it is. Just because you don't like it there's no need to praise doom for the future of a game. MMORPGs are always time-consuming. If you don't have that time you won't start with a game like that.
Elite: Dangerous - Space Exploration & Trading.
This is actually one of the few games an arena would make sense. (Hint hint Fighter's Guild)
You think calling an open PVP scenario nothing but a zerg is really much of a critique? Folks have been saying that since DAOC and SWG. Yes people said it back then.
It's only a zerg to the guy running around by himself in a team based PVP area.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Can't beat em join em?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
MMO's are time consuming as every other game out there. But, some part of MMO content can't be played in shorter sessions (Dungeons, Raids etc.) because they take longer and you don't have "save" button.
Here in ESO, you can play PVE in shorter sessions (PVE questing), but, you can't play this way in PVP, because it will get you nowhere.
And just another note.. it is beta.. at the moment there are no pro guilds.. and at the moment there is not a lot of organization for casual pvpers.. that will change, and it will be make things a little bit easier.. nevertheless you will have to run a lot, and overalll you fighting will be below 50% in pvp alll the time.. even a lot below of that.. but that is always true.
I think that was below you.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I agree, but people feel it would detract from AVA, I disagree. I think it would make perfect sense to open an arena in Cyrodil proper. Another incentive to hold the imperial city, the Emperor sets the frequency of tourneys, the tourneys offering his side boosts due to public happiness. The matches themselves could be open to everyone. But only really help one faction. Unless an opposing faction member becomes champion, then it becomes a power struggle (bonuses toward taking the city/crown) to the champions faction.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Cyrodiil is going to be in perpetual war, arenas don't make much sense in this context.
Also, to many "serious" PVP players (that doesn't of course include me, I don't like PVP), Arenas are a cancer, a disease.
There are already games that cater to pseudo-PVP, please let's not try to dumb down this game more than it already is. And WAR sank in part because its battlegrounds were emptying the RvR lakes
How could this detract from AVA when it would essentially be supported by it? Anyway made a thread on this very thing as this one has far too much fanboi vs hater nonsense going on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It has nothing to do with cyrodil tough.
The fighter's guild arena in oblivion is used to rank up to prove you are strong, this could be also made when you join them people could fight against each other, against npcs maybe and there could be betting as a minigame for spectators.
The arena I'm talking about is not created to please the people but it's there because of the lore so it makes sense to have it in the fighter's guild.
Its not a critique, seems you got it a bit messed up.
The thing is Cyrodill is pretty much GW2 WvWvW in a "boring" edition.
If you want to talk about REAL RvR you have to look into true teritory control like Shadowbane. Otherwise theres no need to make things more boring that they need to be.
Seems no lessons were learned lol