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Why is the term Themepark so negative?
SuperNick
Member UncommonPosts: 460
So, recently, the term "themepark" is getting thrown around so much it's losing all meaning to me.
All I know is it's now one of the go-to negative points listed when someone doesn't like an MMO.
What does the term really even mean anymore? When I look at it I think to myself: a game with a quest-based leveling system, an auction house, a class system, dungeons, bosses, a main storyline, raids and so on.
Now, I look at those things and I think "cool, the more the better. I really enjoy all those features". I think back to the so called "glory" days of MMOs and honestly it's nothing more than nostalgia. Looking back, there was nothing satisfying about endlessly grinding mobs or sitting in a mine spamming WTS for 6 hours a day. I enjoyed it because it was the best I'd seen so far and now there is MUCH better.
Why do people look at those features as some kinda negative? Who cares if xyz MMO has it? No MMO out there hasn't taken from somewhere in the past.
If you're one of the "screw this game, it's so themepark" crowd, what sort of game would you like to see that can somehow be successful and not include any of the above things? Sure, it's nice when games like ArcheAge promise "the next sandbox MMO where you invent the game" but let's be honest: it's a bunch of paper ideas that never come to fruition. From Saga of Ryzom to Fallen Earth, games that try to deviate from the genre that much ALWAYS end up flops. Worse yet, they often rush to patch up their game by adding the very stuff they swore they wouldn't. (See: Archeage Westernization patch)
Anyway, it seems to me it's really just a misused buzzword.
Comments
The problem is with humans....
They always want what they don't have.
In 15 years when there's 4 AAA sandbox MMO's on the market everyone will be bitching about how they miss the good old days of questing in WoW and how they can't find anything to do because the game is so open there's no real objective.
It's cyclical like everything else in life.
"I hate themepark MMOs!"
"Why?"
"I want a sandbox MMO!"
"Cool, what's that?"
"No idea."
+1
Amen Brother! So many players out there with faulty memories, or are just too young to understand.
It's 90% forum drama and advertisement spin.
Much the same as WoW hating was the popular thing to do on a forum, themepark hating is as well.
I don't think of LotRO or EVE or Tera or any game as sandpark or themebox or any other fast food term. I think of them as distinct games and what they are. My MMO history started with SWG, EVE, DAoC and trials in WoW, EQ 2 and expanded. They were all MMO's to me. Each had features, each had styles.
I used to enjoy some themeparks but I'm just bored with them. I have some idea about the sort of sandbox game I'd like to play but you're right it doesn't really exist right now. If you like themeparks that's cool . I don't think most people are saying liking themeparks is stupid or anything. Most of us just wish there was more variety in MMOs.
You've got to admit, love them or hate them, most themeparks since WoW play out pretty much the same.
I can relate to that.
I played WoW and LOTRO for many years, both very similar titles in a lot of respects. Not a lot has held my interest since those two.
I do believe that's the fault of the developers though.
You definition of "the same" is baffling.
Steering a starship in STO is the same as action diablo type combat in Marvel Heroes? You may as well say all shooters are the same .. or all stealth games are the same .. or all RPGs are the same.
Personally i am having fun with a huge variety of games because i can appreciate variety in gameplay.
Pretty sure most of us who want a sandbox have one thing in mind. Eve online in a fantasy setting, I'm not sure this point was really ever in question..
Create a game, in which end game can become starter island with one poor choice. Create a game, in which crafting has meaning. Create a game, in which ganking isn't the only reason for world pvp. Create a game, in which accomplishments have meaning in the world.
I can only assume the technology for spreadsheets in space is there, but its still a ways off for the environment we are looking for.
The word themepark and sandbox can mean a million different things to a million different people. [mod edit]
The bottom line is i think people are tired of this easy mode, hand holding, quest hubbing, being guiding to max level making sure you get everything you want in the whole wide world [mod edit]
It is definitely misused and people are tired of the hand holding. Before WoW (in a way WoW also), MMORPG's were a major time investment, more difficult and made for a small population of people, dedicated gamers. WoW broke that mold by taking an IP that was very popular and well known outside the gaming community and making an MMO that was easy to play, but difficult to master. Before WoW there were no ! anywhere and no tools to make it easier, it was a sandbox and the players formed guilds, built communities, made their own maps and lived with death penalties.
The rest is history, people loved the ! and the ease of play and the Themepark was born, companies could run multitudes of people through their game "on rails" giving them the illusion of playing without boundaries and attract a much wider range of people by making a game on a track that was easy, that is where the term "Themepark originated.
To answer your question, the term Themepark is negative because (as above) it is misused, it is hand holding and current generation of gamers want something new. Since Themeparks are the norm now, people are going to complain about them and wanting something "shiny and new", not the same old thing.
Yeah the "easy mode" revolution brought on by WoW focusing on casual gamers is what annoys me the most. If I actually take the time to master the game mechanics, put in 4 hours a day to get the gear and skills I want, why should the guy playing 2 hours on the weekends be on my level or receive the same recognition or rewards? It got to be pretty ridiculous, getting to max level in 1-2 weeks which completely was a smack in the face to dedicated players. Before WoW if you wanted something you had to work for it. I remember having to actually network with dozens of players just to get tidbits in-order to complete quests back in the old EQ days, it was fun since I had real adventures, met a bunch of cool people along the way and in the end felt more rewarding.
Well the reason game companies cater to the casuals is because as a collective there are way more casual players than there are hardcore gamers. There are more gamers who want to be able to log in a few hours a week than those that can dedicate 4+ hours a day to a game. These companies, no matter the passion for gaming, have a responsability to their share holders and employees, that responsability is to make money so they go for the higher population, the casual gamers.
Really it is only the hardcore gamers, who have hours and hours to spend building "skills" in a game and desire very difficult elitist game play that are hard on Themepark games. That small niche which seems to have a vocal majority on this site don't want a game, they want an uphill climb and a real challenge. I get it. However, that doesn't make Themepark games a bad thing, they are the mainstream favorite.
It is sort of like a group of people thinking extreme gore x rated horror movies should dominate movie theaters despite the vast majority of movie going audiences preferring movies in the PG-R rating scales.
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"Why is the term Themepark so negative? "
Because this forum exists in a space between universes, where everything you don't personally like is "universally (in all neighboring universes) and objectively bad" and everyone who has a different taste or opinion is "simply stupid".
Those are the laws of nature here, and we can't mess with the laws of nature or bad things happen.
pretty much this.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Personally I don't think themeparks are inherently evil.
But the way game after game grabs me by the ear and drags me forcibly down its one single path to end game gives themeparks a bad name.
This in itself is just due to the fact that there are so many problems that must be overcome and can be solved with gated content and level based progression. But the common solution seems to end in a game that is so linear the player spends most of their time being told what to do rather than finding their way through the game.
So of course we scream for sandboxes.. but as a reaction to bad design and not so much themeparks themselves.
We all understand this, but when you dumb down things for mainstream you lose things like actual rewarding gameplay and individualism. People want the same rewards for minimal effort just so they don't feel "left out" or hurt even though that's life which is pretty much what the sandboxed mmos were, they were life simulated in a different skin and life isn't fair. It's like with some of the kindergarten schools nowadays forcing everyone to be equal by making kids give generic valentine cards to everyone in the class with no special messages to their close friends or anything. If I can't put more than 2 hours a week into a game I don't get mad I either suck it up or make changes in my life to get more time.
There's also a difference between wanting something challenging and "very difficult elitist gameplay". Watching a lot of gamers over the years I find "challenging" to a lot of casual gamers is simply learning game mechanics like cooldowns in-order to be more efficient. Challenging at it's essence is simply something that can make you actually use brain power which is why a lot of people refer to catering to the casual crowd as "dumbing down". Elitist gameplay would be a game like Dark Souls where the game's primary objective is to kill you... until you're dead...then kill you some more. That's nothing like how the old sandboxed mmos played.
What I want is the shell that was SWG pre-cu fleshed out with meaningful content and all the AAA bells and whistles of themeparks today. VO, Stories, etc.. Yet while maintaining it's core sandbox features, housing, crafting and all it's professions, the interdependent features like buffs, player shops, fatigue and combat wounds, with dancers and docs to heal em.
All on a better engine as well as infrastructure. We'll get there some day.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The term gets thrown around as a label for games that particular person doesn't enjoy. Whether those games are actually themepark or not is irrelevant entirely. When pressed, they don't know what it means. If they start listing features, you can be sure they don't know what they're talking about.
It is more of a design philosophy than a list of features. The themepark metahpor is not very accurate either, since a ride would be something akin to a TV show/movie-like experience, not a game where you actively participate in it. Then again, none of the proclaimed sandboxes are really sandboxes when compared to titles such as Second Life.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
So much this.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
I think some people genuinely want a good sandbox, but others have just jumped on the bandwagon.
Honestly I don't mind either as long as the game is fun. I think 'themepark' has become synonymous with 'shallow' although that isn't really the case. There have been plenty of themepark games which had depth to them, such as Vanguard.
Themepark is a negative slam by a small minority of people who don't like traditional role playing game elements in a massive role playing game.
I've always found it insulting, as themparks are associated with kids. The irionic thing i find is that people who consistently use it in a negative pattern only want to run around and hack at one another like kids playing tag and call that role playing.