Originally posted by Seelinnikoi Honest question here but, how did you build a gaming PC ?
While I don't agree with the OP about the payment discussions, you seem to missing a point here. All the euro countries use the euro and have to pay the same sub in euros. But this doesn't mean that the salaries or local prices are the same as in the rest of Europe. There are large differences between the strength of economies in Europe which affect local average salaries. (One of the reason why the euro has trouble atm btw, but thats a whole different discussion)
So in an euro country with weaker economy, the average salary will be lower. This also means that prices for most things are adapated to that so are lower. So that pc you are mentioning, is cheaper when bought locally (costs less euros then when bought in germany for example). But the MMO sub is not adapted to the local economy and can be therefore relatively pricy. The 1 on 1 conversion rate from dollar to euro that these companires use isn't helping either.
Hope that answers your question and shows that the situation is maybe less obvious as you thought.
The US has the cheapest prices... i remember when i found the Amazon.com page for the first time i could not believe how cheap things were... sadly they were only for the US. In the EU i found prices to be similar between countries but i did not check them all that well.
To the OP: In a world where a lot don`t have food/water you want charity so you can stay on your ass and play a game?! How about working from home, there are many ways to get an income today while working from home.
Second, Hemophilia is usually inherited so i really hope you did not have a child who has to go through that... while his father sits on his ass and plays video games.
I have a disabled(car crash) friend who spent about 4-5 years playing online poker for cents so he can learn it and have an income... he had no results for a while but eventually he got good enough now he has enough money to live a comfortable life.
Interesting... you have enough money to buy a computer capable of playing these games, enough money to pay for access to the internet, and yet, rather than playing one of the many F2P titles out there, you want to play a P2P title instead.
Funny, but even those of us who aren't bed-ridden are still subject to the same financial restrictions as everyone else. If you can't afford it, you do without. Simple economics. You don't have to be poor to relate to that.
Wait a year and it will be free to play... oh wait, that's right, you only play games that cost money that you don't have.
Tbh most of the people complaining about 15usd/13eur sub fee are from Western countries. Just check the info on those accounts who start these threads. Bloody hate that sterotype thing.
I can see it now, video game socialism. Make those with money pay for those who do not. Just have to submit your year end tax statement with purchase of a new game.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
I can't shake the feeling that this whole post is the equivalent of a guy standing on a median at a stop light in a heavily trafficked intersection, holding a sign asking for money because of [insert sad situation to tug at the heart strings].
Especially near the end I got the major vibe of a web scammer: As i found out that life is too short to hide my honest wishes... Followed by a blatant request for someone to buy the game for him. The language he uses just oozes scam. My guess? He gets a bunch of people to buy him a copy of the game, or a code, and turns around and sells the game to others for profit.
The sense of entitlement blows me away. This is "Welfare for gaming" and I find it troublesome to say the least. I like the saying "I don't mind giving a HAND UP, not a HAND OUT"
-Rig
Former GM and associate game designer for SOE and Square Enix. (2001-2008)
Companies are not charities. What happens when you go to a store and pick up a watch with a price tag of $1,000 and tell the store clerk "Oh, you know what? I'm a low income person and I really can't afford this, so how about selling it to me for $10?" You'll be leaving the store without the watch, that's what.
In life there are things we can't afford. Deal with it.
To be honest I would say to you focus on other things rather then gaming. In the U.S.. we have a capitalistic economy where it is pretty much dog eat dog world ( makes socialism look very very appealing) with that said it would make zero sense for a company to accommodate someone like this. I personally have no issue with what you are proposing but a company just wont see the profit in the effort to make it work. If you can give them a mathematical proposition and submit it to the correct department they maybe willing to steal your idea and implement it. That is the best advice I could come up with off the top of my head, good luck to you.
[mod edit] The OP says he cant afford the game and simply gave some perspective on how, he thinks, he and Zenimax could benefit from some sort of subscription that can be bought with in game currency. Strictly some guy saying what he thinks could be a positive implementation in TESO. While I completely disagree I don't feel the need to be harshly subjective on the matter. I simply read his post, pondered what he was saying, and moved on to the next topic. As some of you have said if he cant afford it, he shouldn't play it...AGREED. But there is a civil and respectful way to convey your thoughts. Nonetheless my two cents...No there should be a subscription model where you could buy your subscription with in game currency. Second NO I DO NOT THINK anyone should buy him the game...he evidently has more pressing issues to rectify or improve. With this being said I don't see the need to badger anyone who posts here, no matter how bizarre the post may be, after all we are all part of the same community aren't we?
I think that majority of people in this topic (like 90% or so) misunderstood the OPs idea.
What he is suggesting (and probably what WildStar is implementing as well) is well known and working system taken directly from EVE Online.
Someone buys TimeCode then sells it LEGALLY in game, for in game currency. That way, people with money are paying to win, and ones without are playing to pay. It has nothing do to with charity because its huge money for the game company.
OP's heart is in the right place and I do enjoy the subscription model that EVE has implemented so well (I am currently using my saved up ISK to keep subbing my account to train while I'm not playing) But let us all remember the gaming is a hobby and if your life is in such a bad situation that you have to resort to pleading with game companies to reduce the price tag or subscription plans to games then perhaps you should spend a little more time trying to better your real world life instead of trying so hard to get into a virtual one you can't afford.
I think that majority of people in this topic (like 90% or so) misunderstood the OPs idea.
What he is suggesting (and probably what WildStar is implementing as well) is well known and working system taken directly from EVE Online.
Someone buys TimeCode then sells it LEGALLY in game, for in game currency. That way, people with money are paying to win, and ones without are playing to pay. It has nothing do to with charity because its huge money for the game company.
So because this guy cant play, we should wreck one of the interesting dynamics of TESO (the way they have the in game economy set up) by installing contrived pay to win garbage.
Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp So because this guy cant play, we should wreck one of the interesting dynamics of TESO (the way they have the in game economy set up) by installing contrived pay to win garbage.
You will be paying to win either way, in cash shop.
Originally posted by simsalabim77 How do you afford to eat on €200 a month? That'd cover the cost of groceries for about two weeks in my house.
Geez, different countries handle different prices based on the country's economy strenght. So in a country with weak economy, the average salary will be lower, but also the grocery prices will be lower.
Apparently many people on this board don't realise this. But just because many European countries use the euro, doesn't mean that they all have strong economies and the same average salary or prices. So for some of these countries, a MMO sub, which usually is a 1 on1 dollor to euro conversion can be relatively pricey.
Romania average wages are about 5 time lower than Germany, does that mean that a computer sold in Romania cost 5 times less than Germany ?
If that's the case he's still providing for a family with what would be about 1000€/month in Germany. It is still under the poverty level, I don't know anyone that can afford a computer and internet connection that live in those conditions.
They will be cheaper then in Germany simply because the local shops want to earn something. How much I don't know. Obviously not 5 times cheaper. This isn't the case with other products like cars either. Difference there is mainly that in countries with low average income, there is a larger trade in second hand luxury products. But generally speaking, if you don't sell, you don't earn. So yeah, computers will be cheaper there. The MMO sub however will have a fixed price in an euro country no matter in what the economy looks like. So for the weaker economies it is a relatively high price.
So yes, I understand the OP's desire to come up with an alternative system. This doesn't mean that I agree with the specifics he proposed though. Although there are games that offer a similar system, like with PLEX in EVE.
As for the OP's specific living conditions. You seem to be implying that his internet connection and gaming will be at the cost of his family (if I understand you right). This is just your assumption. Also it is not your judgement call. He is just proposing a system similar like in EVE and I think Wildstar is going to have.
I find it sad that just because he is proposing an idea (he doesn't ask for ESO to become free or just for free for him), he gets insulted left and right. You can play EVE for free if you put in a lot of effort. This works there. It could work in other MMO's as well.
Several people in this thread have trouble seeing the difference between proposing an idea and demanding something. The OP is not demanding anything. Stop acting as if he is some poor beggar on the street holding up the hand for a nickle. The attitude some of you display is plain insulting.
Originally posted by someforumguy Several people in this thread have trouble seeing the difference between proposing an idea and demanding something. The OP is not demanding anything. Stop acting as if he is some poor beggar on the street holding up the hand for a nickle. The attitude some of you display is plain insulting.
And the hollier than thou attitude you are displaying is just AS insulting.
-Rig
Former GM and associate game designer for SOE and Square Enix. (2001-2008)
Comments
The US has the cheapest prices... i remember when i found the Amazon.com page for the first time i could not believe how cheap things were... sadly they were only for the US. In the EU i found prices to be similar between countries but i did not check them all that well.
To the OP: In a world where a lot don`t have food/water you want charity so you can stay on your ass and play a game?! How about working from home, there are many ways to get an income today while working from home.
Second, Hemophilia is usually inherited so i really hope you did not have a child who has to go through that... while his father sits on his ass and plays video games.
I have a disabled(car crash) friend who spent about 4-5 years playing online poker for cents so he can learn it and have an income... he had no results for a while but eventually he got good enough now he has enough money to live a comfortable life.
Its never easy but its better than begging.
Interesting... you have enough money to buy a computer capable of playing these games, enough money to pay for access to the internet, and yet, rather than playing one of the many F2P titles out there, you want to play a P2P title instead.
Funny, but even those of us who aren't bed-ridden are still subject to the same financial restrictions as everyone else. If you can't afford it, you do without. Simple economics. You don't have to be poor to relate to that.
Wait a year and it will be free to play... oh wait, that's right, you only play games that cost money that you don't have.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
This is actually exactly what F2P is.
It has nothing to do with this topic, but did you know that minimum wage of most east european countries is a little bit over €300? (~400 with VAT)
I can't shake the feeling that this whole post is the equivalent of a guy standing on a median at a stop light in a heavily trafficked intersection, holding a sign asking for money because of [insert sad situation to tug at the heart strings].
Especially near the end I got the major vibe of a web scammer: As i found out that life is too short to hide my honest wishes... Followed by a blatant request for someone to buy the game for him. The language he uses just oozes scam. My guess? He gets a bunch of people to buy him a copy of the game, or a code, and turns around and sells the game to others for profit.
That's crazy.
The sense of entitlement blows me away. This is "Welfare for gaming" and I find it troublesome to say the least. I like the saying "I don't mind giving a HAND UP, not a HAND OUT"
-Rig
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Companies are not charities. What happens when you go to a store and pick up a watch with a price tag of $1,000 and tell the store clerk "Oh, you know what? I'm a low income person and I really can't afford this, so how about selling it to me for $10?" You'll be leaving the store without the watch, that's what.
In life there are things we can't afford. Deal with it.
[mod edit] The OP says he cant afford the game and simply gave some perspective on how, he thinks, he and Zenimax could benefit from some sort of subscription that can be bought with in game currency. Strictly some guy saying what he thinks could be a positive implementation in TESO. While I completely disagree I don't feel the need to be harshly subjective on the matter. I simply read his post, pondered what he was saying, and moved on to the next topic. As some of you have said if he cant afford it, he shouldn't play it...AGREED. But there is a civil and respectful way to convey your thoughts. Nonetheless my two cents...No there should be a subscription model where you could buy your subscription with in game currency. Second NO I DO NOT THINK anyone should buy him the game...he evidently has more pressing issues to rectify or improve. With this being said I don't see the need to badger anyone who posts here, no matter how bizarre the post may be, after all we are all part of the same community aren't we?
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I think that majority of people in this topic (like 90% or so) misunderstood the OPs idea.
What he is suggesting (and probably what WildStar is implementing as well) is well known and working system taken directly from EVE Online.
Someone buys TimeCode then sells it LEGALLY in game, for in game currency. That way, people with money are paying to win, and ones without are playing to pay. It has nothing do to with charity because its huge money for the game company.
I'm sorry OP, but I cannot agree with you.
1) This is a company making the game, not a charity.
2) How can someone afford a gaming pc and high speed internet, but not be able to afford a game sub?
3) Everyone has to make their own financial priorities based off their life situation. Adapt and overcome.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
OP's heart is in the right place and I do enjoy the subscription model that EVE has implemented so well (I am currently using my saved up ISK to keep subbing my account to train while I'm not playing) But let us all remember the gaming is a hobby and if your life is in such a bad situation that you have to resort to pleading with game companies to reduce the price tag or subscription plans to games then perhaps you should spend a little more time trying to better your real world life instead of trying so hard to get into a virtual one you can't afford.
Please stop with the F2P / B2P whine!
If you want to play a F2p game, go DL one!
If you what to play a B2p game, go buy it!
Life is not all about your wants or needs!
Or the ever popular gimme with this current generation, "Johnny has a new toy car, why can't I have one too /cry!"
Live it, learn it, accept it!
F2p sucks... there is nothing Free about it. Further, to even be remotely competitive in one requires far more investment that a p2p game, period!
B2p exists because the game itself sucks to begin with!
If someone cannot afford a meager $14.99 sub fee, then it sucks to be them!
Life is not fair, nor with it ever be!
Sorry if the truth hurts... deal with it!
I got your Deliverance!
Where's my banjo?!!
So because this guy cant play, we should wreck one of the interesting dynamics of TESO (the way they have the in game economy set up) by installing contrived pay to win garbage.
Sounds good to me.
You will be paying to win either way, in cash shop.
They will be cheaper then in Germany simply because the local shops want to earn something. How much I don't know. Obviously not 5 times cheaper. This isn't the case with other products like cars either. Difference there is mainly that in countries with low average income, there is a larger trade in second hand luxury products. But generally speaking, if you don't sell, you don't earn. So yeah, computers will be cheaper there. The MMO sub however will have a fixed price in an euro country no matter in what the economy looks like. So for the weaker economies it is a relatively high price.
So yes, I understand the OP's desire to come up with an alternative system. This doesn't mean that I agree with the specifics he proposed though. Although there are games that offer a similar system, like with PLEX in EVE.
As for the OP's specific living conditions. You seem to be implying that his internet connection and gaming will be at the cost of his family (if I understand you right). This is just your assumption. Also it is not your judgement call. He is just proposing a system similar like in EVE and I think Wildstar is going to have.
I find it sad that just because he is proposing an idea (he doesn't ask for ESO to become free or just for free for him), he gets insulted left and right. You can play EVE for free if you put in a lot of effort. This works there. It could work in other MMO's as well.
And the hollier than thou attitude you are displaying is just AS insulting.
-Rig