Isarii, I too find the sudden 180 suspicious and it does read a lot like backpedaling. Barely able to log on for a month because of bugs? Really? You make it seem like PTS is completely unplayable or that the servers had a triple meltdowns or something. There are bugs, yes. Good lord, there are bugs (crit anyone?) but it's far from "can't log on for a month."
No, no. I wouldn't say I couldn't log in because of bugs. It's nowhere near that bad. I could barely bring myself to long in simply because I was less and less interested in the game, and finding less and less enjoyment from it. That statement was only meant to address the fact that my opinion for the game has been degrading over the last month.
I do mean degrading, by the way. This wasn't a situation where my hype just fell off a cliff one day, as many people have misunderstood. I did not articulate that clearly, and take the blame for that one.
While that person seems to have writing skill I didn't find anything new in what they wrote. I already know about most of what was written and the rest was really just the writer's experience participating in the closed beta full time. I want to believe folks when they say the bugged quests were due to scaling problems they had on the back-end and that was due to them not caring to spend the money required to give us a decent beta weekend experience. I still plan to play the game and I am confident I'll get value for the money I spend on the game.
Isarii, you come across as an intelligent human being, and you certainly aren't an internet neophyte, given that you've spent time as a moderator on the Tamrielfoundry forums.
Did you honestly believe that your internet blog post would only be read by "those that know you" and would remain private and confined to your "inner circle" ?
Really ?
I didn't believe it would remain private, but the degree to which it has been spread did surprise me quite a bit. My last post has seen upwards of 5,000 unique visitors since I posted it two days ago. To put that in perspective, every other post on my blog combined has had maybe 200. When I said in my first post here that I didn't think people outside of my target audience would care, I really meant it. Yet, here we are.
That said, I don't apologize for the post's spread, and that isn't the issue I came here to address, either. The issue has been that the post was interpreted as something it was not, despite my introductory paragraph saying this:
"I am well aware that this post will invite upon myself bashing from the remaining TESO community, but I want to stress that these are simply my personal reasons which I am expressing for those who are interested. I know that my profile is high enough in the TESO community that many people will want to know why I’m leaving, and I feel obligated to address my reasoning for the former fellows in fandom which I will leave behind. My goal is not to turn players away from the game. If you disagree, I wish you the best and hope that you find the game to your liking. I have made my decision, and share this only so that those who value my opinion can understand it when making their own"
I don't mind coming here to help this community better understand the purpose and content of my post, but I want it to be understood that this was already clear in the post itself. I understand, of course. I skim posts too, so I don't judge when others do it.
It did spread because the link was posted on the official tamriefoundry forums, but the major point is that there are probably no other long term beta tester who did write a lot about their own game expirience. In addition you were one of the first ones who did talk about lvl 50 content after the NDA got lifted. Of course people are interested to read about someone who did play the game already for longer.
At the end I dont understand the outcry from some, never thought the thread here would provoke so many comments and some even with personal attacks.
Anyway, we have to say thank you that you did post a lot of valueable informations about the game on TF, this forum and your thoughts on your blog.
It is actually for me personally interesting to hear that the game is centered more around quests and story at endgame, this is actually one of the points which I enjoy in ESO and I will take the time and not rush through it. If someone rather do not like the type of slower paced questing in ESO or in other TES games it is of course a different situation.
The author of this text is a long term beta tester (if I remember correct 9+ months) and did level up several characters to LVL 50 already. He was aswell a moderator at the tamrielfoundry forums.
I'm not really following how my being an MMO veteran means I shouldn't focus on the future, to be honest. .
I am curious, how old are you?
I see all these TF guys posing as mmo veterans, and most look like they are barely out of high school or college.
Knowing a person's age usually helps provide a baseline as far as where they are coming from, and how that affects their opinions, experience, or views on games.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The author of this text is a long term beta tester (if I remember correct 9+ months) and did level up several characters to LVL 50 already. He was aswell a moderator at the tamrielfoundry forums.
I do not like nor defend ESO and I agree it is not p2p material but....
the fact he makes so many comparisons between it and one of the most successful games out there right now (GW2) yet still calls ESO a failure makes me wonder if all he wants is an old school type mmorpg, if that's the case just keep playing braindead wow or 1 of it's millions of clones please thank you very much.
I made one GW2 comparison - that both games omitted standard MMO features without redesigning the features they supported.
That said, while I do want an old-school MMORPG, I would hardly consider WoW oldschool. Pre-NGE SWG with modern graphics would keep me entertained for a very long time. ESO was obviously never going to be anywhere near that though, and I never expected it to be.
That's funny, so many people are whining when haters are posting "F2P in 6 months, lolo", but when one personn actually post a detailed post with arguments, people need to resort to Ad Hominem.
Reckon we players don't need the kazillion gamer podcasters out there to explain whether to go thumbs up or down on our games.
Personally, I'm looking forward to the ESO launch. I like what I've seen in the ESO beta enough to go for the collector's edition. I enjoyed ESO's beta far more than the Wildstar Beta and a lot more than my time in the EQLandmark Alpha. There's something about how RPG ESO feels that I'm digging. Right now, ESO is working for me since I'm pretty tired of cookie cutter MMO models, and I like big world exploration.
Is actually for me personally interesting to hear, that the game is centered more around quests and story, it is actually one of the points which I enjoy in ESO and I will take the time and not rush towards through it. If someone rather do not like the type of questing in ESO or in other TES games it is of course a different situation.
Sounds like you'll probably have a great time then.
I'm not trying to say that TESO is a horrible game no one will like, simply that it isn't one that I personally will enjoy or see having a long future as a subscription title. Some people have trouble understanding that not everyone sees their own preferences as objectively true for everyone, I guess.
There are some truth in his words, and only the future of ZOS will prove it! I hope he is wrong, but I also gets alittle worried the way things are goin.
Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit That's funny, so many people are whining when haters are posting "F2P in 6 months, lolo", but when one personn actually post a detailed post with arguments, people need to resort to Ad Hominem.
Even funnier is that the haters and doom and gloom crowd think they have a new leader whose new-found "convictions" validate their constant negativity... that, is really funny.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Blog author here, and because I am apparently the idiot everyone on this site thinks I am, I thought plunging into the Lion's Den would be a fun way to spend my lunch break today. It's a Monday. It was expected to be shitty anyway.
The major thing I would like to clarify is that if at any point during the read, you thought to yourself, "who the fuck is this guy and why should I care", then you simply aren't my target audience. Regardless of your opinion of me as a person, it is undeniable that I am fairly well known in at least my little corner of the TESO community through my participation on Tamriel Foundry and Twonkhammer's TESOCast, and I don't think it's unreasonable for me to assume that people who are fans of those outlets would be interested in my departure.
As I said in the post, those are the people that this article was written for - the ones I know personally, and the ones that follow me personally; this is why I posted it to my low traffic blog, and not Tamriel Foundry itself. I shared my post on my personal Twitter, my guild forums, and the off-topic forum of Tamriel Foundry, the site which I have helped to run for the last year. While it has made its way to MMORPG.com and Reddit through other posters, none of that was my doing, because in all truthfulness, I agree with you guys. You don't know who I am, and I wouldn't expect you to care.
The target audience defines a lot about my approach to the piece, which I believe has lead to some confusion now that several thousand people outside of that audience have found their way to it. While the post is merely a telling of my personal loss of faith in the game and its developer, it has been approached as if it were a review, meant to inform or sway the opinions of a lot of people. I don't blame the confused for the misunderstanding, as the style they are interpreting the post as being is a lot more in line with my past writing than the one in question.
In the end though, the post should be viewed for what it actually is - a personal blog post, which should only be held to a slightly higher standard than a Facebook post.
With the post now properly framed as an insight into my own personal choices and not a review meant to persuade or enact change, a lot of the post should make more sense. Some have accused me of "crystal-balling" due to the post being entirely future focused, but when I have already seen the content that is currently in the game, what other standard should I use for my own personal purchasing decisions? Many have mentioned that the length I stuck with the game indicates that I'm full of it, but this is something the post already addressed, multiple times, with a disclaimer at the top and bottom noting that many people will get their money's worth and enjoy the content that is already in game. That's a great standard for those people to choose by, and for them, there is my comprehensive review. It's not appropriate for me though; I've been there - I've done that, and the future is all the game would hold.
For me to drop money on the game, I have to be convinced that TESO has what it take to survive in the market as a long-term MMORPG. I want to think that it does, but based on my beta testing experience, and experience with the MMO market in general, I really don't think it will. The post wasn't made to convince people that I'm right. If you think the game holds a future for you, then I recommend that you buy it. Its purpose was to explain, to those who cared, that the uncertain future is the reason I will no longer be around.
And that's what it came down to. Do I stay with the game and get burned by another MMO, even when I see it coming, or do I cut my losses and avoid spending money on a game I have no faith in? I chose to play it cautious, for once.
You were 100% on board with this game until the API changes. I think the highlighted statements and much of your blog post are a bunch of hot air that you may even be telling yourself in an effort to justify your stance of not playing due to your anger about that one decision. Hey I've done the same thing at times - something really pisses me off and then I look for a lot of other things to fuel that anger passion, even though those things weren't as big of a deal before the one thing really pissed me off. And if the API changes were a big enough deal to you then there is nothing wrong with quitting over it - we all have our things. But these last 2 paragraphs here, come on, lol. You're quitting because you're "not convinced the game can survive in the mmo market." ppssshhhhhhh
This is a popular theory I see ascribed to me, which I attribute mostly to the degree that I focused on the API in my final post. Even at the time, I felt that I had dwelled on it a bit too long, but it was a timely and relevant example of a lot of the problems I have had with the development team. While the change and the way they made it certainly helped to push me out the door, it was other factors which had me standing in it. I'd also like to point out that we can still do quite a bit more with the API than the public realizes at this point, so it wasn't as big of a deal to me as some people may think. The action wasn't a big deal, but the design philosophy and intent it represents does exemplify a lot of the doubt I had as to whether or not the game would be for me.
Still, while I don’t think this is an unreasonable response to what I’ve written, at the same time, what I’ve written wasn’t an exhaustive write-up either. I chose to focus on my doubt for the future of the game because it is important, but there were other causes beyond changes in the most recent patch.
I have actually barely been able to log onto the PTS for around a month now. It’s partially the bugs, horrendous balance, and other technical problems, but it also boils down to a fundamental problem I have with the endgame philosophy behind TESO. In the end, I think it’s the amount of questing the game forces on you (I’m including the other types of open world content as questing, for simplicity). I’m not a big quester, and while I’ve enjoyed it in some games, TESO’s quests just aren’t my type of thing. I love the way they fit into the world, and the emphasis on narrative focused chains rather than one and done kill quests is great, but they don’t grab me in the same way that The Secret World, or even SWTOR’s (to a much lesser extent) do.
That’s all personal preference, but where other games have quests as an annoying content gauntlet you grind through to get to endgame, in TESO, those quests are a large part the endgame, and this annoyed me far more than I expected it to. I liked +/++ content in theory, and in theory, I liked how lengthy the VR grind turned out to be. In practice though, the extended quest grind really, really bothers me, and it’s just not something I could bring myself to do again. This is a design that some people are going to love, but having tried it in the PTS, I can say with complete confidence that I am definitely not one of them.
To tie it back into the game’s future though, this model is not going to bode well with a lot of the MMO community. Launching without adventure zones was not a good idea, and the extended quest grind covering up their absence may prove more egregious then the absence itself, especially in light of the difficulty associated with leveling VR through PvP or grinding; questing is nearly the only viable option right now.
The game really, really needed to be pushed back six months at the very least. That’s not going to happen though, and it's yet another flaw the game may yet pay the price for.
I have to say that I am also having a hard time not seeing your recent statements about the game's prognosis as anything other than rationalized projections to make yourself feel better about your decision.
To say that you disagree strongly with the recent Templar nerf, as you did loudly at the TF, and that you felt betrayed by the API nerf, and that this is why you made a personal decision to stop playing after 9 months is one thing.
To use that as a launching pad to predict doom and F2P conversions is something else altogether and pretty thin.
I also post at the TF and have seen your bitterness about the API and your sarcastic comments implying that "hiding the numbers" makes it easier for them to nerf the Templar.
I have a pretty good idea as do most members there and here why you did a 180 degree turn in one month,
A month ago you were saying this:
"Crafting being a viable form of progression has accompanied the best crafting system I’ve seen in a themepark MMO, and there are a lot of ways in which I feel it will foster a strong social element to the game’s economy. There’s a lot of customization involved, crafters’ names are permanently displayed on gear they have created, and there’s no auction house to dominate the economy. I’m pretty happy with how the economy looks right now.
The biggest thing for me though is probably the progression. It’s open-ended. It’s fun. Sure, a lot of the abilities aren’t exactly compelling right now, but that’s just a balance issue – and even in that situation, there’s still a lot to look forward to as you’re leveling your character and collecting skyshards. It’s addicting.
And this is the best thing about the game. It is addicting, and it’s addicting in a way that I haven’t felt from an MMO in a very long time. No, it doesn’t grab you right away – and that’s a problem we’re seeing from a lot of the reviewers who didn’t get very far – but once the game opens up, there’s actually a lot to like, and that, for me, is the spark that lights my hope for the game’s success.
And now, despite "...barely being able to log on to the PTS for about a month..." we are to believe that the game you found so charming and addicting a month ago all of a sudden has a cloudy F2P future?
Sorry man, I appreciate your respectful posts and excellent writing style but I'm having a hard time believing that even you believe all the other things you are now saying about the game after they pissed you off with the Templar and API nerfs.
Spot on man - he just wrote the green like 1 month ago, lol Now spewing the exact opposite after Templar/API changes....
People are SOOOO dramatic about their video games. I love my games as much as anyone, but damn! He writes this like he just resigned as CEO of ZeniMax rather than stopped playing their game! Most people don't put that much thought into a divorce, let alone a video game! Makes us all look crazy...
Pay for the game, play the game. Pay more for the game, get to play all of the game. Sounds pretty much the same as any other MMO out. Ultimately, so what! Maybe we can make a new category for MMO games, such as PM2PA for Elder Scrolls Online Pay More To Play All. Like any other additional "pay" features, it will probably give a boost to some players through the stats available to that race. Personally, I'll skip this one. NEXT!
Well constructed post; and no reason to doubt that it wasn't intended for a "wider" audience.
With the beta coming to an end a decision had to be made: continue or move on. What I pick up from the (full) post is that the decision not to "start" was based on multiple factors rather than a single change such as that to the API.
As noted if you liked the beta you should like TESO for a period of time.
I can appreciate many of the poster's reasons and so would add the rider: as long as you are being honest with yourself. Don't expect magic fixes; expect the worst then you can be surprised.
Well, in my opinion, he was with the wrong group of peeps and in the wrong faction. The farewell letter may have served as a way of telling TF buddies, et al that he may not want to play with them. Welcome to Dagerfall Covenant Mr Farewell. The righteous faction.
PS: Templars are doing fine. But grouping with other Templars is the way to go imho. Want to play in DC? send me a PM, I ams till looking for a guild. Templar-based only. Ring of Mara included of course.
ESO trys too hard to be single player Elder Scrolls at cost of MMO quality. UI is awful and terrible, addons changes makes many ppl to cancel preorders. This is huge issue.
Although I agree with the author I have not put in 9 months of play testing and have decided to invest in the success of ESO by pre-ordering and I look forward to starting my adventures there on the 30th.
I think Zenimax is smart enough to know they wouldve got a few more subs by not changing the addons. But as big an issue as some people want to make it out to be, its not even remotely. You'll lose a few that for some reason cant play the game unless their little needs are accomodated too. Zenimax wont really gain much by not doing it, except the respect of those who have no interest in using addons in the first place or are indifferent and will just use whatever is available, which is the majority. Its just dishonest and laughable at this point for the people so hurt over the addon changes to say with a straight face that Zenimax has no direction or vision behind the game. They just told you they dont want your money because the design of their game is more important. It doesnt get any more direct than that.
Also theres already QQ I quit posts and the beta characters arent even dead yet LOL...this is hilarious.
I think Zenimax is smart enough to know they wouldve got a few more subs by not changing the addons. But as big an issue as some people want to make it out to be, its not even remotely. You'll lose a few that for some reason cant play the game unless their little needs are accomodated too. Zenimax wont really gain much by not doing it, except the respect of those who have no interest in using addons in the first place or are indifferent and will just use whatever is available, which is the majority. Its just dishonest and laughable at this point for the people so hurt over the addon changes to say with a straight face that Zenimax has no direction or vision behind the game. They just told you they dont want your money because the design of their game is more important. It doesnt get any more direct than that.
Also theres already QQ I quit posts and the beta characters arent even dead yet LOL...this is hilarious.
Comments
No, no. I wouldn't say I couldn't log in because of bugs. It's nowhere near that bad. I could barely bring myself to long in simply because I was less and less interested in the game, and finding less and less enjoyment from it. That statement was only meant to address the fact that my opinion for the game has been degrading over the last month.
I do mean degrading, by the way. This wasn't a situation where my hype just fell off a cliff one day, as many people have misunderstood. I did not articulate that clearly, and take the blame for that one.
It did spread because the link was posted on the official tamriefoundry forums, but the major point is that there are probably no other long term beta tester who did write a lot about their own game expirience. In addition you were one of the first ones who did talk about lvl 50 content after the NDA got lifted. Of course people are interested to read about someone who did play the game already for longer.
At the end I dont understand the outcry from some, never thought the thread here would provoke so many comments and some even with personal attacks.
Anyway, we have to say thank you that you did post a lot of valueable informations about the game on TF, this forum and your thoughts on your blog.
It is actually for me personally interesting to hear that the game is centered more around quests and story at endgame, this is actually one of the points which I enjoy in ESO and I will take the time and not rush through it. If someone rather do not like the type of slower paced questing in ESO or in other TES games it is of course a different situation.
Seriously. I am touched. it did change my life completely, nothing from now on will be the same.
His profile at the TF says he is 23.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I made one GW2 comparison - that both games omitted standard MMO features without redesigning the features they supported.
That said, while I do want an old-school MMORPG, I would hardly consider WoW oldschool. Pre-NGE SWG with modern graphics would keep me entertained for a very long time. ESO was obviously never going to be anywhere near that though, and I never expected it to be.
Reckon we players don't need the kazillion gamer podcasters out there to explain whether to go thumbs up or down on our games.
Personally, I'm looking forward to the ESO launch. I like what I've seen in the ESO beta enough to go for the collector's edition. I enjoyed ESO's beta far more than the Wildstar Beta and a lot more than my time in the EQLandmark Alpha. There's something about how RPG ESO feels that I'm digging. Right now, ESO is working for me since I'm pretty tired of cookie cutter MMO models, and I like big world exploration.
Sounds like you'll probably have a great time then.
I'm not trying to say that TESO is a horrible game no one will like, simply that it isn't one that I personally will enjoy or see having a long future as a subscription title. Some people have trouble understanding that not everyone sees their own preferences as objectively true for everyone, I guess.
There are some truth in his words, and only the future of ZOS will prove it! I hope he is wrong, but I also gets alittle worried the way things are goin.
Time will tell.
Even funnier is that the haters and doom and gloom crowd think they have a new leader whose new-found "convictions" validate their constant negativity... that, is really funny.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Spot on man - he just wrote the green like 1 month ago, lol Now spewing the exact opposite after Templar/API changes....
Sooo... ZoS nerfed your class, nerfed your favourite way to farm XP and nerfed your addons.
I understand why you left the game. But thank God for ZoS doing what they did.
Well constructed post; and no reason to doubt that it wasn't intended for a "wider" audience.
With the beta coming to an end a decision had to be made: continue or move on. What I pick up from the (full) post is that the decision not to "start" was based on multiple factors rather than a single change such as that to the API.
As noted if you liked the beta you should like TESO for a period of time.
I can appreciate many of the poster's reasons and so would add the rider: as long as you are being honest with yourself. Don't expect magic fixes; expect the worst then you can be surprised.
Well, in my opinion, he was with the wrong group of peeps and in the wrong faction. The farewell letter may have served as a way of telling TF buddies, et al that he may not want to play with them. Welcome to Dagerfall Covenant Mr Farewell. The righteous faction.
PS: Templars are doing fine. But grouping with other Templars is the way to go imho. Want to play in DC? send me a PM, I ams till looking for a guild. Templar-based only. Ring of Mara included of course.
Meridia's Will.
I think Zenimax is smart enough to know they wouldve got a few more subs by not changing the addons. But as big an issue as some people want to make it out to be, its not even remotely. You'll lose a few that for some reason cant play the game unless their little needs are accomodated too. Zenimax wont really gain much by not doing it, except the respect of those who have no interest in using addons in the first place or are indifferent and will just use whatever is available, which is the majority. Its just dishonest and laughable at this point for the people so hurt over the addon changes to say with a straight face that Zenimax has no direction or vision behind the game. They just told you they dont want your money because the design of their game is more important. It doesnt get any more direct than that.
Also theres already QQ I quit posts and the beta characters arent even dead yet LOL...this is hilarious.
Totally agree.