I have to be honest here... I LOVE Star Wars, I really do. Much more than Star Trek (though I love it too). And I'm still paying for a sub on SWTOR. However, I haven't logged in for a month and have little desire to do so. They have finally announced housing so I'll be keeping my sub for a while, I want to see what its like. But I'm bored replaying the same content over and over and over. Of course, I can say the same thing in all these games, including LOTRO.
I will agree with you that SWTOR does feel like a single-player game shoe-horned into an MMORPG.
...
Khm, last checked as I remember I had 12 or 14 maxed out alts (have maxed out as usually first the "good" side :-)) and will return soon for the rest ... but I still fail to understand HOW *EXACTLY* Swtor feel like SINGLE-PLAYER game compared to **ANY** OTHER lets call it "NON-SINGLE" player game. Swtor is as much TRUE MMORPG as any other game out there.
Can somebody enligthen me statement by statement about this difference?
Originally posted by Fenrir767 [mod edit] The Truth is simple
People that enjoy in TOR are the same that have played multiple playthroughs of various Bioware games and other Single player games.
[mod edit]
Not true for me , in-fact I have never played through KOTOR and have never ever played through a single player game more than once. I haven't even played through any single player games for say the last 4 years , apart from a few 3ds games and not many of them.
You could turn what you said on its head and say that the only reason why I have been able to play through almost 16 characters on SWTOR is because I haven't been playing through many single player or Bioware games.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
i dont get it.. you make a new toon in wow.. you do the exact same thing no matter the class.
you make a new toon in TOR and you yes do the same thing but if its a new class for you its actually enjoyable and different. wow has nothing close to that. Not many mmos do.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I dont quite agree with the article. It's true that you can level in completely different areas in WoW when you are playing an alt character, but the gameplay remains completely same, you just click "accept" twenty times and then "complete" twenty times and only thing that changed was the modeling and textures of the world under your feet.
I would LOVE swtor to have like 2 different leveling paths on each faction, but even when it does not, it still changes the experience quite a bit when your character says different things, sounds different, and her class quests (+ companions) are different. Sure you have to spacebar through the same side missions, but like I said earlier you basically spacebar through every mission in WoW already and still do the same thing you do in swtor side missions: colellect this, kill that, and kill more of that.
When it comes to themeparks I have to go with the stories, where swtor wins and hopefully ESO too. I've grown past themepark endgame long time ago, repeating same raids is not interesting anymore, so I expect the leveling experience be more interesting than clicking accept and killing a random selection of mobs, while I'm waiting for a proper triple-A sandbox mmorpg.
I have played wow since launch. Quit twice (one time for two years) and have recently come back about a year ago and I am looking at quitting again shortly.
I have no idea, no clue whatsoever, what the storyline is. I essentially play one character, my rogue. I have leveled 2 alts since vanilla, one a DK (started at lvl 55), one I just finished, a hunter.
Leveling involves clicking on a quest giver, clicking accept without reading the text, looking at the map and doing whatever needs to be done as quickly as possible and repeating at the next quest hub ad nausea. There is absolutely no connection from myself to my character. The story is forgettable and dull. I tried to level many alts, however I was so tired of thinking what an immense tedious time sink I had in front of me (even if it is faster than ever) that I gave up countless times. I probably have 20+ other toons below 30 on several servers. It's truly mindless leveling.
Question... Is it really that different in WoW or LOTRO when you're killing 20 green mobs in one area, and then on the next toon killing 20 blue ones down the road? Is that the argument? At least with TOR you have a compelling story to lead you along.
Question... Is it really that different in WoW or LOTRO when you're killing 20 green mobs in one area, and then on the next toon killing 20 blue ones down the road? Is that the argument? At least with TOR you have a compelling story to lead you along.
Majority of killing quests in TOR are bonus quests. Lets say you are getting a quest to disable turrets on Balmorra. You are getting a bonus quest when you kill any of protecting enemies (who unfortunately are too stupid to run away from my awesomeness) which gives you additional XP. I welcome these bonuses, as you level faster and most of the time mobs are in your way anyway, unless somebody else took care of them.
Also, in many TOR quest you have an option in dialog if you want to go on killing spree or rather disable or destroy equipment etc. Up to you.
In my opinion almost all quests in TOR are not about kill this or that, they have different purpose, killing is just an added bonus, you can skip if you like to.
This options were one of the reasons why I was always underleveled on my operative and assassin. I was sneaking, avoiding killing (aka forget about bonus quests) and just completing main objectives of the quests.
I agree that SWTOR does give you a task to do, however there still is a bit of killing x or y while doing z.
My point was in response to the op, as well as many others heralding different leveling paths as interesting. If one path is boring, and so is the second, how is that better?
I have to agree with you on that Urden most people seem to be looking at this from one perspective only instead of evaluating the leveling experience as a whole. I was bored to tears trying to level alts in WoW and LOTRO so much so that I never finished however in SWTOR I am finishing up my 5th toon and will be working on my 6th and seventh soon.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 I have to agree with you on that Urden most people seem to be looking at this from one perspective only instead of evaluating the leveling experience as a whole. I was bored to tears trying to level alts in WoW and LOTRO so much so that I never finished however in SWTOR I am finishing up my 5th toon and will be working on my 6th and seventh soon.
I agree although I no longer play lotro or wow but in both I found running an alt to be painfull. In lotro I have one max toon I could not imagine running around and killing 500 more boars to get that +1 valor. In wow I have two max toons my second one was a monk recently I really didn't mind leveling him up as my guildmAtes helped in raids at my level. I also had full set of timeless gear at max level waiting.
But my issue with wow is I have no idea the about the story in game yes it may be my fault for rushing through but never really felt important or involved in a story. On a side not timeless isle is the worst daily area in all off mmos. Hey we have 12 million players, we are merging servers together let's create this tiny little island so they can all fight over the same mobs over and over.
In Swtor from the start you are immersed in the story as some have said the quest that are kill x are bonus and optional. No other mmo in my opinion pulls you in like Swtor that's why it's one of the few games I have multiple alts, and most in our guild have multiple alts.
Totally agree. SWTOR still has all the same quest types of other MMOs, But SWTOR pulls me in enough to care why I'm doing it. I feel like I'm making Coruscant a better place when I'm taking out the Migrant Merchants Guild.
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The article is talking about replay-ability for the game. For, as a new player to the game, I can't talk about my own replay-ability yet. But I can talk about my observations.
I have played through several MMO launches. Some F2P, some not. In any case, all the MMOs at launch have packed starter zones. Over time they gradually thinned out after a few weeks to months as both the game's population generally levels past it as well as thins out over time. Leaving most MMO's starter zones relatively empty save the vets leveling alts. And if the starter zones are low on players, the mid level zones are just plain devoid of any players at all.
This has simply NOT been the case with SWTOR. OK, the game is F2P. I would expect a boosted starter zone population. But it hasn't stopped. So far having tried 2 different servers so far I have characters into the upper 20s so I am mid level now. At no time in my game have I been in an empty zone. It's been all levels, all zones, everywhere I go, the game is packed with Subscribers, F2Pers, New players and Vet alts. I don't think it has taken more than a few minutes of zone channel broadcasting LFG for group quests to get in one. Flash Points are quick to assemble teams. Constantly waiting for mob/quest item re-spawns because someone beat me to it. SWTOR is exactly what I would expect an MMO to be. All zones are full of players playing at all ranges and levels. Other games aren't like this. SWTOR must be doing something right.
Not sure which game the writer of this article played, but this is the first game I have 11 level 55 alts. After first republic toon and first imp toon,who did all the quests, the remaining 9 alts did just the class quest, planet quest and either GSF, PVP or FPs. I enjoyed all 8 story lines.
Now let me tell you the weak parts of the game. Regular PVE space (not the new GSF) sucks. PvP is not much fun. Free to Play is the most restrictive one I have seen in any MMO to date (I am sub, but have family member who plays FtP, so I know).
I tried SWToR and even though it's a beautiful game, with great production values, i still walked away with the feeling I was watching a movie or tv show instead of playing a video game.
This is not a themepark, but a single dark ride on tracks where very little deviation is allowed. And for that reason alone, it bored me to tears.
Going to disagree with this post, Mainly because how you level is entirely up to you outside of the Class Quest
You don't have to do the planet quests, or the other quests on a Planet..You can level entirely by doing space quests if ya want..Or you can just pvp to 50, Or you can just Dungeon to 50...Or you can just do Heroics on a Planet and nothing else.
In fact doing Heroics on a Planet and nothing else is how i lvled my first toon...I didn't see most of the content in the game until I finished my 3rd guy...
but u ended up doing the same quests over and over and over. which is what this article is about. being forced to do the same thing over and over. if u level by space quests then its the same handful over and over. same with dungeon leveling. im not a pvp'er but i hear tons of complaints over pvp being bad. point is the game has very little replay value unless you're the type of person who can stand repetitious game play.
i dont get it.. you make a new toon in wow.. you do the exact same thing no matter the class.
you make a new toon in TOR and you yes do the same thing but if its a new class for you its actually enjoyable and different. wow has nothing close to that. Not many mmos do.
u can make a new toon in wow and go through the same zones but because of the amount of quests u can lvl without doin the same ones. in swtor, u really cant skip quests. even with being a subber and usin xp boosts u still end up havin to do a majority of the same quests. as far as pve'ing goes, u have little control over anything and r forced to do the same thing again and again.
Bioware took a big risk when they decided to break away from the pack and create an MMO based on an intricate story played out via a series of professionally voice acted cut scenes. I believe the gamble payed off since BWs parent company EA has made millions from the game to date. This success has come at the cost of a sharply divided gaming community with strong feelings pro and con on issues related to the game.
I don't think SWTOR will have any problem surviving beyond ten years. True it gets quite grindy but thats true of most all MMOs. If you work full time like I do it can take quite a while to work your way through each of the class stories. I have been a sub for 2 years now and I still have yet to finish all the classes offered in the game. SWTOR may not be the best choice for a 30 year old living with parents and planning to spend 10 hours per day playing computer games but it has proven to be very entertaining and immersive for me. BW is on the right track when it comes to adding new content for endgamers since most players have at least one lvl 55 character. As long as they can continue to produce quality end-game material I think they will be fine.
Can't believe out of all the issues you focus on the very least pressing. Replay value to lvl cap is about the only thing they did really well.
I mean really, 2 faction and 4 class stories are getting bashed to not being the "hoover up fetch and kill quests and btw you can skip half in this zone "for replay value" *wink*" lol. 1st world problems.
Meanwhile every game seems to launch with massive pvp scenarios and TOR has 4v4. Yea. Let's complain about the replay value of their stories.
Comments
I have to be honest here... I LOVE Star Wars, I really do. Much more than Star Trek (though I love it too). And I'm still paying for a sub on SWTOR. However, I haven't logged in for a month and have little desire to do so. They have finally announced housing so I'll be keeping my sub for a while, I want to see what its like. But I'm bored replaying the same content over and over and over. Of course, I can say the same thing in all these games, including LOTRO.
Khm, last checked as I remember I had 12 or 14 maxed out alts (have maxed out as usually first the "good" side :-)) and will return soon for the rest ... but I still fail to understand HOW *EXACTLY* Swtor feel like SINGLE-PLAYER game compared to **ANY** OTHER lets call it "NON-SINGLE" player game. Swtor is as much TRUE MMORPG as any other game out there.
Can somebody enligthen me statement by statement about this difference?
Not true for me , in-fact I have never played through KOTOR and have never ever played through a single player game more than once. I haven't even played through any single player games for say the last 4 years , apart from a few 3ds games and not many of them.
You could turn what you said on its head and say that the only reason why I have been able to play through almost 16 characters on SWTOR is because I haven't been playing through many single player or Bioware games.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
i dont get it.. you make a new toon in wow.. you do the exact same thing no matter the class.
you make a new toon in TOR and you yes do the same thing but if its a new class for you its actually enjoyable and different. wow has nothing close to that. Not many mmos do.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I dont quite agree with the article. It's true that you can level in completely different areas in WoW when you are playing an alt character, but the gameplay remains completely same, you just click "accept" twenty times and then "complete" twenty times and only thing that changed was the modeling and textures of the world under your feet.
I would LOVE swtor to have like 2 different leveling paths on each faction, but even when it does not, it still changes the experience quite a bit when your character says different things, sounds different, and her class quests (+ companions) are different. Sure you have to spacebar through the same side missions, but like I said earlier you basically spacebar through every mission in WoW already and still do the same thing you do in swtor side missions: colellect this, kill that, and kill more of that.
When it comes to themeparks I have to go with the stories, where swtor wins and hopefully ESO too. I've grown past themepark endgame long time ago, repeating same raids is not interesting anymore, so I expect the leveling experience be more interesting than clicking accept and killing a random selection of mobs, while I'm waiting for a proper triple-A sandbox mmorpg.
I have played wow since launch. Quit twice (one time for two years) and have recently come back about a year ago and I am looking at quitting again shortly.
I have no idea, no clue whatsoever, what the storyline is. I essentially play one character, my rogue. I have leveled 2 alts since vanilla, one a DK (started at lvl 55), one I just finished, a hunter.
Leveling involves clicking on a quest giver, clicking accept without reading the text, looking at the map and doing whatever needs to be done as quickly as possible and repeating at the next quest hub ad nausea. There is absolutely no connection from myself to my character. The story is forgettable and dull. I tried to level many alts, however I was so tired of thinking what an immense tedious time sink I had in front of me (even if it is faster than ever) that I gave up countless times. I probably have 20+ other toons below 30 on several servers. It's truly mindless leveling.
Question... Is it really that different in WoW or LOTRO when you're killing 20 green mobs in one area, and then on the next toon killing 20 blue ones down the road? Is that the argument? At least with TOR you have a compelling story to lead you along.
Majority of killing quests in TOR are bonus quests. Lets say you are getting a quest to disable turrets on Balmorra. You are getting a bonus quest when you kill any of protecting enemies (who unfortunately are too stupid to run away from my awesomeness) which gives you additional XP. I welcome these bonuses, as you level faster and most of the time mobs are in your way anyway, unless somebody else took care of them.
Also, in many TOR quest you have an option in dialog if you want to go on killing spree or rather disable or destroy equipment etc. Up to you.
In my opinion almost all quests in TOR are not about kill this or that, they have different purpose, killing is just an added bonus, you can skip if you like to.
This options were one of the reasons why I was always underleveled on my operative and assassin. I was sneaking, avoiding killing (aka forget about bonus quests) and just completing main objectives of the quests.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
I agree that SWTOR does give you a task to do, however there still is a bit of killing x or y while doing z.
My point was in response to the op, as well as many others heralding different leveling paths as interesting. If one path is boring, and so is the second, how is that better?
Totally agree. SWTOR still has all the same quest types of other MMOs, But SWTOR pulls me in enough to care why I'm doing it. I feel like I'm making Coruscant a better place when I'm taking out the Migrant Merchants Guild.
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The article is talking about replay-ability for the game. For, as a new player to the game, I can't talk about my own replay-ability yet. But I can talk about my observations.
I have played through several MMO launches. Some F2P, some not. In any case, all the MMOs at launch have packed starter zones. Over time they gradually thinned out after a few weeks to months as both the game's population generally levels past it as well as thins out over time. Leaving most MMO's starter zones relatively empty save the vets leveling alts. And if the starter zones are low on players, the mid level zones are just plain devoid of any players at all.
This has simply NOT been the case with SWTOR. OK, the game is F2P. I would expect a boosted starter zone population. But it hasn't stopped. So far having tried 2 different servers so far I have characters into the upper 20s so I am mid level now. At no time in my game have I been in an empty zone. It's been all levels, all zones, everywhere I go, the game is packed with Subscribers, F2Pers, New players and Vet alts. I don't think it has taken more than a few minutes of zone channel broadcasting LFG for group quests to get in one. Flash Points are quick to assemble teams. Constantly waiting for mob/quest item re-spawns because someone beat me to it. SWTOR is exactly what I would expect an MMO to be. All zones are full of players playing at all ranges and levels. Other games aren't like this. SWTOR must be doing something right.
Not sure which game the writer of this article played, but this is the first game I have 11 level 55 alts. After first republic toon and first imp toon,who did all the quests, the remaining 9 alts did just the class quest, planet quest and either GSF, PVP or FPs. I enjoyed all 8 story lines.
Now let me tell you the weak parts of the game. Regular PVE space (not the new GSF) sucks. PvP is not much fun. Free to Play is the most restrictive one I have seen in any MMO to date (I am sub, but have family member who plays FtP, so I know).
I tried SWToR and even though it's a beautiful game, with great production values, i still walked away with the feeling I was watching a movie or tv show instead of playing a video game.
This is not a themepark, but a single dark ride on tracks where very little deviation is allowed. And for that reason alone, it bored me to tears.
Bioware took a big risk when they decided to break away from the pack and create an MMO based on an intricate story played out via a series of professionally voice acted cut scenes. I believe the gamble payed off since BWs parent company EA has made millions from the game to date. This success has come at the cost of a sharply divided gaming community with strong feelings pro and con on issues related to the game.
I don't think SWTOR will have any problem surviving beyond ten years. True it gets quite grindy but thats true of most all MMOs. If you work full time like I do it can take quite a while to work your way through each of the class stories. I have been a sub for 2 years now and I still have yet to finish all the classes offered in the game. SWTOR may not be the best choice for a 30 year old living with parents and planning to spend 10 hours per day playing computer games but it has proven to be very entertaining and immersive for me. BW is on the right track when it comes to adding new content for endgamers since most players have at least one lvl 55 character. As long as they can continue to produce quality end-game material I think they will be fine.
Nah, lets not!
Can't believe out of all the issues you focus on the very least pressing. Replay value to lvl cap is about the only thing they did really well.
I mean really, 2 faction and 4 class stories are getting bashed to not being the "hoover up fetch and kill quests and btw you can skip half in this zone "for replay value" *wink*" lol. 1st world problems.
Meanwhile every game seems to launch with massive pvp scenarios and TOR has 4v4. Yea. Let's complain about the replay value of their stories.