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This pvp is nowhere near what Daoc was, please stop comparing
Viper482
Member LegendaryPosts: 4,099
I have heard this comparison one too many times now.
The things that made Daoc pvp great were realm pride, server identity, and a continuous campaign.
Realm Pride: This was HUGE in Daoc. After a while people created toons on other servers to be able to experience other realms, but not before attaching themselves to one realm and hating the other two. This game made you proud to be part of your realm and hate the others with a passion. If your lands were being invaded by another realm you went out to kick their ass, period. You did not need any rewards to motivate you, it was for the shear pleasure of defeating and humiliating the enemy. Even the PvE played to this, the backstory making sure you knew what faction your allegiance belonged to and why you should hate the others. Does anyone here really identify with their faction in ESO? I can't even tell you what races are in each off the top of my head because who cares? Ask a Daoc fan what faction trolls were, or Britons, or Keens.
Server Identity: This megaserver, along with this campaign crap, has destroyed any sense of server identity. In Daoc when the Albs were attacking one of the first things was to ask who is leading them, which guild(s), etc. Or how about the watch out in this area if you are solo (insert name of badass facestabbing infiltrator here) is ganking. You always knew who the other side was, you knew their "doctrine" and tactics, and they knew yours. It made for interesting battles because you could always use the fact the enemy knew you to plot diversions and other tricks. You also knew you own server, you knew your guilds, the most skilled allies you had that you would want to go to war with, etc. You did not only know those in your guild but players on your server, period. It was truly a social event every time you logged in.
Continuous campaign: The war in Daoc never ended. You could not jump ship unless it was to reroll to another server. You either made do with what you had, made alliance, or your life sucked. This created an awesome competitive environment. This whole GW2 thing where your war only lasts x amount of time is just pathetic. It has turned it into a cybersport rather than a war.
This is not Daoc and never will be, just stop.
/rant off
Comments
Before I start will state I never played DAOC have watched many videos and watched a mate play but never got the chance at the time in my life really wish I had because my mate talks about it with amazing passion and love and he makes it sound amazing that's what brought him to ESO he had heard from a lot of people that they were recreating DOAC pvp and he jumped on it and played for a little while in the Beta and the stopped because as he puts comparing ESO to DAOC is a insult to how great DAOC and destroys the memory of it because as he has said people like me who never played DAOC and have been playing ESO are getting told constantly that its just as good as DAOC and it lies and hurts how good DAOC really was.
I never played DAOC, but having and end to the "match" is actually pretty smart design imo.
And "end" to the war creates a automatic goal for players to strife for. Without it, the only remaining goal is to control whatever objectives and control points the game as, and claim it's rewards. This usually, but not always, tends to lead to the all well known keep flipping issue.
The mentality might have been different back then to not allow this to happen, but nowadays realm pride won't happen.
The whole hey be any race in any alliance killed alliance pride. We did have definate racial alliance pride. Dominion vs Ebon vs DC. Now it is just red vs blue vs yellow. I was sad when the explorer's pack was introduced. Instead of going into Cyrodill to fight for the Dominion, I just go to PvP. Enough people complianed about not being able to play any race with their bffs worked. We now fight identical copies of ourselfs just like in GW2. I turn around and there are 100 vikings with mohawks in the Dominion.
The PvP is really good, but the alliance pride may never build. I believe home campaign changes will increase to 100K AP which really isn't that much if you PvP a ton. I think after the 1st 90 days home campaigns should only be allowed to be changed after the campaign ends.
We'll have to see what the Imperial City holds for us. Maybe it really will be something to fight over and only accessed on your home campaign. Hopefull changing your home will become more difficult to encourge people not to change. We also need a merger of campaigns to build 4 really strong ones. Expand the campaigns as those become queue'd on a daily basis.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
So why you read others posts if you dont care? Or you would care if it was a "ESO is a DAoC Successor" post?
Sorry, but OP is right...
Nothing compared to Doac... however, for now i'm having alot of fun in ESO.
P.S played Doac for 7 Years
DAOC is still there though. It isn't gone... why would we need it recreated?
It's like someone telling me there's a new sport that's just like Baseball! And then I complain that it is not...well I can still go watch baseball.
I agree with the OP.
While ESO could never be as good as DAoC was... There are a few things that could help.
Nameplates, Guild Emblems, proximity appropriate kill/death spam.
Add pvp levels, something equivalent of DAoC's realm rank system.
Get rid ESO's 5 guild system and incorporate guild alliances.
I think that would fix the huge identity problem.
So many aspects of DAoC that Zennimax could take and improve their game.
You'd think being in the business of developing game(s) of this genre they would have realized.
*Edit:: I'd like to add that I still play dark age every now and again. most recently about 3 or 4 months ago. It just doesn't have the population it used to. I'm not nostalgia tripping. daoc was a great game during its prime and is still pretty decent even today.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
This pvp is nowhere near what Daoc was, please stop comparing
well, you just did
This...
Reading Comprehension 101
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Exactly, which is precisely why I want to bring up the April 15th patch in which Motes in the Moonlight was fixed. I mean finally right? How many days was that quest bugged? And all because people couldn't stop spamming the mobs down to let it appropriately reset. All we wanted to do was finish the quest, so we stood next to the pillar that we had to purify and waited, but damn quest was bugged forever. Lame.
I agree. Name plates and guild alliances would go a long way. I like to see the name of the guilds and players leading a campaign and seeing the names of people who kill me. We had guild alliance alliances and alliance chat channels in War. Loved that in War. Played against the same people for a long time. Hated some of them and they hated me.
I don't undestand all the flame post from the fan bois. I enjoy ESO AvA and will play it for a long time. It is the best RvR going. Why would you not want it better then DAoC? Why do you want it worse the DAoC? I loved DAoC and would love for AvA to be 100x's better then DAoC. It is not. I compared it to DAoC back in Sept, but sadly is isn't as good. Still does not make it a blast. Warhammer wasn't as good as DAoC. We wanted it to be better, it wasn't, but we still had years of fun.
If you did not Play DAoC you missed out on the best RvR ever created. Take ESO AvA and improve on it. Make it stomp DAoC. People still play, it is dated, looks like crap now, and population is low. I'm here and will stay here. Maybe Unchainged will pull me maybe not. I stick with my MMOs for years.
Realm Pride: Just becaus eyou can't identify with your faction doesn't mean noone can, just because you can't get involved and cheer for a football team doesn't means noone can.
Server Identity: ok, knowing who your enemy is and how they play is standard for any game if you play long enough, even on GW2 which makes hard for you to identify your enemy we would think "oh it's that guild, we need to play carefully", "oh that guy is leading, he likes to rush and avoid fighting", DAOC isn't special on this, it's just smaller population, so you could more easily identify the hardcore players.Anyone can make a name for themselves in any game, you just need to play long enough to differentiate yourself from the masses.
Continuous campaign: wow, so much hardcore. You want people to go through great lengths of pain just to have a different experience, just so they could for once stop being the underdog and win a few times. You want to force people to be die hard lovers of their own server or reroll and start basically from scratch. Well, guess why theres so much more freedom and forgiving rules these days, it's because there isn't a lot of people that want to be hardcore on everything they do.
Force me to stay on a dying server because I can't change servers and the only option is to reroll? Terrible terrible design.
Who cares about the difference between cybersport and "war"? I want to have fun and be competitive, I don't want a "life sucked" just because I chose a dying server, your nostalgia is getting in the way of your reasoning.
As far as I know people compared the mechanics of the combat and tactics to DAOC, not some hardcore server side highly limiting to the player mechanics.
This isn't a place to rant, if you rant other people will rant against you, which ends in a flame war.
OP are you REALLY expecting those things you mentioned in your OP to be in ESO when the game is 2 weeks old going for it's 3rd week?
I never did play DAOC on a serious level and also not at release so I am unaware that DAOC might have achieved those things within a few weeks of it's release?
I can support it as fact based on personal experience. The only troll here is you.
Well quit playing ESO then and play DAOC insteed, I don't get why all you DAOC playeers complain about the pvp in every game getting released, why don't you just play DAOC if you love it so much.
I have played DAOC and sure I had fun, really fun in the game but I had more fun in ESO, Warhammer online and GW2.
You were all saying the same when GW2 was released almost 2 years ago and GW2 have more players on their lowest populated server today then DAOC has had the past years so how fun can it really be today?
Is DAOC really a good buisness model if no one plays the game. Warhammer tryied with some of the elements of DAOC and we all know how that game ended up.
So I agree with OP on one point, quit compairing DAOC with ESO cause ESO is so much better at everything. I see ESO as an evolved DAOC crushing on every point.
But hey I could be wrong and yes this is just my opinion well me and a few other millions of players but hey play your DAOC and love it good for you.
IF a game feels like DAOC to someone that doesn't mean it's like DAOC, it means it brings them back to a time when they played that game. Mechanic wise the games are different, Realm pride is something that may happen for some and not for others, I don't understand why people take this type of "feeling" as literally saying it's daoc 2. Certain mechanics are similar, the set-up is inspired by ( I don't think there's any real question about that).
Playing SWG for the first time reminded me of Morrowind, even though the games had little in common, it's the feeling that matters in such a comparison, it's certainly nothing to get bent out of shape over.
I will never understand why some take things like this so literal though, something to rant about is my guess.
Bottom line is no matter how much you rant about it, you can't take away how something feels to someone else or what it reminds them of.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your right Cryodiil is Dark Age of Camelotesque for consoles cuz thats where this games PvP is going to shine once they wake up and realize this is destined to be a free to play game as who is gonna pay a sub on consoles :P
Then again these next generation consoles are geared for those who got no issues forking out cash for anything and everything. Willing to wait and see how it all plays out....feel free to work out those bugs and gameplay issues for those of us who got the sense to wait this one out
WHo is the OP to tell others how something feels to them? I'll repeat it again, you can't take away how someone feels about something or what that thing may remind them of, no matter how long your rant is.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson