I always thought it was a technical limitation of mmos to have any AoE spell only hitting 4-6 mobs max at any time. Now i see they can hit anyone within range and they are calling that an issue? Really?
The way this change is worded in the patch notes is underhanded. This change implies that the scope of AoE abilities which previously existed in the game was not intended and was a bug which required “fixing”.
This will seriously cripple the ability of coordinated players to fight larger groups of players when outnumbered.
This will greatly increase the “safety of the zerg”, further promoting zerging as the default tactic in PvP.
This greatly increases the relative effectiveness of siege weapons, pushing Cyrodiil further towards siege vs. siege rather than player vs. player gameplay.
This change damages immersion, seeing AoE attacks inexplicably failing to damage enemies which surround the player.
In short, this change is really bad for the game. If you already believe, let ZeniMax know why this is terrible. If you don’t believe me yet, please read on for mode in-depth discussion."
1. its not underhanded to reduce AOE to a limit of 6 targets only, it just means Tamriel Foundry never looked at it as a bug when it was clearly overpowered.
2. This will NOT cripple anyone. In fact it will prevent a small handful of AOE parties to take out parties that incredibly outnumber them that in reality should be able to beat up small parties.
3. This fix prevents Zergs, because all you would need then is everyone casting only aoe to win every battle. it makes it more challenging and forces you to go one on one more often.
4. Seige weapon in no way, shape or form is superior to one on one combat in PVP. This is just fantasy and lack of wanting to face the fact that AOE is limited now.
5. Really? lower number of targets you can aoe ruins immersion? OK that one speaks for itself if you think that.
In short, its bad for Tamriel Foundry who loves the advantage of having rolled many AOE characters for its Entropy guild and now will not be able to ZERG their way to victory and feel its too late to change their builds now. Perhaps you should have had some variety Andrew.
Do you really have to read on beyond that? They obviously have self instrest in seeing their AOE builds be unbeatable once again and have no real level playing field and are using their fan site to promote support for being overpowered in PVP.
No No NO. ZOS, you're literally hitting yourself with an arrow to the knee if you implement this kind of changes to AoE. Mind you, I'm using a templar character, not those DKs+vamp builds (who like those AoE stuff).
Anyways, as a templar, we have a skill that can counter those kind of people. The only thing that annoys me, based on my experience, is the bat swarm's life leech. If only you could nerf certain skills, but NOT TO THIS EXTENT, we would keep PvP fun.
Life leech on a vampire=no damage taken. They should tone it down.
SOLA - www.solaguild.com (christian guild. Being christian is not required for membership though)
Originally posted by MMOExposed Instead of jumping the gun, how about we come up with solutions to the problem that would have better outcome?
you make the wrong assumption that anyone has any say other then Zos and that they view it as a problem.
The only solution is standard internet procedure:
make lots of posts and have lots of arguments on as many medium as possible forcing the development company to do some form of damage control if the negative side reaches some internal threshold value.
1) AOE caps already exist in the game for AOEs, but was not applied to all AOEs. This has lead to only the non capped AOE's being used primarily resulting in cookie cutter builds, which is not fun for me (and I am pretty sure I am not alone).
2) Spamming one or two AOE's over and over is not skill, it is mindless button mashing.
3) One to four players being able to kill 12+ players of equal level and gear consistantly due to imbalanced powers does not make you elite, and I doubt the players getting killed and feeling obligated to take the same AOE's to counter every one else resulting in the same builds and powers being used does not lead to a fun game for most people I know.
This is not a nerf according to Zenimax, it is fixing a bug with certain AOE's not obeying the caps that were originally intended. Where they screwed up is in not fixing this before the game went live.
I like build diversity. I like to have fun. I do not like being a clone of everyone else spamming the same powers as everyone else.
As usual, vote with your wallet.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
*Laughs* Spamming AoEs... *Laughs more* People seem to be having trouble trying to circumvent the issue... Although the solution is quite simple: Apply realism to it.
P.S.: ...Do any of you, eh, watch...anime? I could recommend one... it'd give the best notion of how "fictional fighting" should be. (Until then, well, good luck (enduring the frustration...)
1) AOE caps already exist in the game for AOEs, but was not applied to all AOEs. This has lead to only the non capped AOE's being used primarily resulting in cookie cutter builds, which is not fun for me (and I am pretty sure I am not alone).
2) Spamming one or two AOE's over and over is not skill, it is mindless button mashing.
3) One to four players being able to kill 12+ players of equal level and gear consistantly due to imbalanced powers does not make you elite, and I doubt the players getting killed and feeling obligated to take the same AOE's to counter every one else resulting in the same builds and powers being used does not lead to a fun game for most people I know.
This is not a nerf according to Zenimax, it is fixing a bug with certain AOE's not obeying the caps that were originally intended. Where they screwed up is in not fixing this before the game went live.
I like build diversity. I like to have fun. I do not like being a clone of everyone else spamming the same powers as everyone else.
As usual, vote with your wallet.
Cheers!
Regardless of how unpopular this idea might be to some, I agree with it. This post sums up quite a bit of the reasoning behind it.
1) AOE caps already exist in the game for AOEs, but was not applied to all AOEs. This has lead to only the non capped AOE's being used primarily resulting in cookie cutter builds, which is not fun for me (and I am pretty sure I am not alone).
2) Spamming one or two AOE's over and over is not skill, it is mindless button mashing.
3) One to four players being able to kill 12+ players of equal level and gear consistantly due to imbalanced powers does not make you elite, and I doubt the players getting killed and feeling obligated to take the same AOE's to counter every one else resulting in the same builds and powers being used does not lead to a fun game for most people I know.
This is not a nerf according to Zenimax, it is fixing a bug with certain AOE's not obeying the caps that were originally intended. Where they screwed up is in not fixing this before the game went live.
I like build diversity. I like to have fun. I do not like being a clone of everyone else spamming the same powers as everyone else.
As usual, vote with your wallet.
Cheers!
Regardless of how unpopular this idea might be to some, I agree with it. This post sums up quite a bit of the reasoning behind it.
So, you are defending the AoE cap? Do you know that if theres an AoE cap and the meta turns into the turtle ball of death on the video above we will still be spamming AoE damage and heals?
1) AOE caps already exist in the game for AOEs, but was not applied to all AOEs. This has lead to only the non capped AOE's being used primarily resulting in cookie cutter builds, which is not fun for me (and I am pretty sure I am not alone).
2) Spamming one or two AOE's over and over is not skill, it is mindless button mashing.
3) One to four players being able to kill 12+ players of equal level and gear consistantly due to imbalanced powers does not make you elite, and I doubt the players getting killed and feeling obligated to take the same AOE's to counter every one else resulting in the same builds and powers being used does not lead to a fun game for most people I know.
This is not a nerf according to Zenimax, it is fixing a bug with certain AOE's not obeying the caps that were originally intended. Where they screwed up is in not fixing this before the game went live.
I like build diversity. I like to have fun. I do not like being a clone of everyone else spamming the same powers as everyone else.
As usual, vote with your wallet.
Cheers!
Regardless of how unpopular this idea might be to some, I agree with it. This post sums up quite a bit of the reasoning behind it.
So, you are defending the AoE cap? Do you know that if theres an AoE cap and the meta turns into the turtle ball of death on the video above we will still be spamming AoE damage and heals?
pvp will turn into nothing but spamming aoe in giant turtle zergs. right now at least the vamp ult / dk aoe's have the effect of keeping people spread out so single target fights can happen. if the aoe nerf goes in I can see a good portion of the pvp playerbase quitting... the people that would stick with this game through thick and thin because they generate their own content. that's not good for anyone.
Originally posted by MMOExposed Instead of jumping the gun, how about we come up with solutions to the problem that would have better outcome?
you make the wrong assumption that anyone has any say other then Zos and that they view it as a problem.
The only solution is standard internet procedure:
make lots of posts and have lots of arguments on as many medium as possible forcing the development company to do some form of damage control if the negative side reaches some internal threshold value.
diminishing returns based on radius of the aoe spell (center takes 100% damage, outer edges take 10%).
reduce effectiveness of -% ult cost items / talents so ults can't be spammed non stop
add an aoe "mortal strike" effect to a common pool skill line, like the soul tree ultimate.
there, 3 easy fixes that address the issue with aoe but dont place a hard cap on every aoe in the game thus ruining pvp.
1) AOE caps already exist in the game for AOEs, but was not applied to all AOEs. This has lead to only the non capped AOE's being used primarily resulting in cookie cutter builds, which is not fun for me (and I am pretty sure I am not alone).
2) Spamming one or two AOE's over and over is not skill, it is mindless button mashing.
3) One to four players being able to kill 12+ players of equal level and gear consistantly due to imbalanced powers does not make you elite, and I doubt the players getting killed and feeling obligated to take the same AOE's to counter every one else resulting in the same builds and powers being used does not lead to a fun game for most people I know.
This is not a nerf according to Zenimax, it is fixing a bug with certain AOE's not obeying the caps that were originally intended. Where they screwed up is in not fixing this before the game went live.
I like build diversity. I like to have fun. I do not like being a clone of everyone else spamming the same powers as everyone else.
As usual, vote with your wallet.
Cheers!
Regardless of how unpopular this idea might be to some, I agree with it. This post sums up quite a bit of the reasoning behind it.
So, you are defending the AoE cap? Do you know that if theres an AoE cap and the meta turns into the turtle ball of death on the video above we will still be spamming AoE damage and heals?
The wonderful world of PvP - Skill has no place as everyone will only go for whats easiest and gives them the biggest advantage - AoE spam or clumping/zerg tactics. No matter what they do, one bad change will be countered by another annoying tactic.
Lets just make it so each AoE won't have a cap - just make it so the more people hit by the spell, the less damage the spell does per person. Sure if you nuke a zerg of 20 it might not kill them all, but it will still hit each player for at least 5 points. And to prevent clumping/turtling, make those of the same alliance who clump together take bonus damage from the AoE. Basically if everyone spreads out, less damage but still getting hurt. Clump up and full damage/pile of corpses. Then maybe people will go back to fighting and not complaining. Everyone wins!
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
1) AOE caps already exist in the game for AOEs, but was not applied to all AOEs. This has lead to only the non capped AOE's being used primarily resulting in cookie cutter builds, which is not fun for me (and I am pretty sure I am not alone).
2) Spamming one or two AOE's over and over is not skill, it is mindless button mashing.
3) One to four players being able to kill 12+ players of equal level and gear consistantly due to imbalanced powers does not make you elite, and I doubt the players getting killed and feeling obligated to take the same AOE's to counter every one else resulting in the same builds and powers being used does not lead to a fun game for most people I know.
This is not a nerf according to Zenimax, it is fixing a bug with certain AOE's not obeying the caps that were originally intended. Where they screwed up is in not fixing this before the game went live.
I like build diversity. I like to have fun. I do not like being a clone of everyone else spamming the same powers as everyone else.
As usual, vote with your wallet.
Cheers!
Regardless of how unpopular this idea might be to some, I agree with it. This post sums up quite a bit of the reasoning behind it.
So, you are defending the AoE cap? Do you know that if theres an AoE cap and the meta turns into the turtle ball of death on the video above we will still be spamming AoE damage and heals?
The wonderful world of PvP - Skill has no place as everyone will only go for whats easiest and gives them the biggest advantage - AoE spam or clumping/zerg tactics. No matter what they do, one bad change will be countered by another annoying tactic.
Lets just make it so each AoE won't have a cap - just make it so the more people hit by the spell, the less damage the spell does per person. Sure if you nuke a zerg of 20 it might not kill them all, but it will still hit each player for at least 5 points. And to prevent clumping/turtling, make those of the same alliance who clump together take bonus damage from the AoE. Basically if everyone spreads out, less damage but still getting hurt. Clump up and full damage/pile of corpses. Then maybe people will go back to fighting and not complaining. Everyone wins!
What? Why would you add diminishing returns the more people the AoE hits and then increase the AoE damage people receive if clumped together? You are biscally changing nothing, just tweak the damage and remove the cap.
BTW, the video is from live, not PTS, theres a cap already on live and the turtling is already starting.
1) AOE caps already exist in the game for AOEs, but was not applied to all AOEs. This has lead to only the non capped AOE's being used primarily resulting in cookie cutter builds, which is not fun for me (and I am pretty sure I am not alone).
2) Spamming one or two AOE's over and over is not skill, it is mindless button mashing.
3) One to four players being able to kill 12+ players of equal level and gear consistantly due to imbalanced powers does not make you elite, and I doubt the players getting killed and feeling obligated to take the same AOE's to counter every one else resulting in the same builds and powers being used does not lead to a fun game for most people I know.
This is not a nerf according to Zenimax, it is fixing a bug with certain AOE's not obeying the caps that were originally intended. Where they screwed up is in not fixing this before the game went live.
I like build diversity. I like to have fun. I do not like being a clone of everyone else spamming the same powers as everyone else.
As usual, vote with your wallet.
Cheers!
Regardless of how unpopular this idea might be to some, I agree with it. This post sums up quite a bit of the reasoning behind it.
So, you are defending the AoE cap? Do you know that if theres an AoE cap and the meta turns into the turtle ball of death on the video above we will still be spamming AoE damage and heals?
After watching said video with the new changes, I can see your point. Nonetheless, it doesn't really invalidate all of the points vmoped made either. You abuse the shit out of something for long enough to where it becomes a "must have" type of ability (and effectively making certain others useless by comparison), it's more than likely going to get changed. I do agree though that they could probably find a better way to address the issue. Guess we'll see what happens with it.
- a fort is under siege, lots of poking people with sticks, giant balls of flames, arrows, charges and counter-charges.
- siege gets broken, defenders charge out, battle commences and it goes back and forth. Archers moving up, DKs pushing the frontline back/forth, V10s causing mayhem, charges and counter-charges.
- a new group appears, runs across the battlefield spamming AoE/AoE CC with healers in the rear, killing everything in seconds.
Comments
I always thought it was a technical limitation of mmos to have any AoE spell only hitting 4-6 mobs max at any time. Now i see they can hit anyone within range and they are calling that an issue? Really?
"Two hands Facepalm"
1. its not underhanded to reduce AOE to a limit of 6 targets only, it just means Tamriel Foundry never looked at it as a bug when it was clearly overpowered.
2. This will NOT cripple anyone. In fact it will prevent a small handful of AOE parties to take out parties that incredibly outnumber them that in reality should be able to beat up small parties.
3. This fix prevents Zergs, because all you would need then is everyone casting only aoe to win every battle. it makes it more challenging and forces you to go one on one more often.
4. Seige weapon in no way, shape or form is superior to one on one combat in PVP. This is just fantasy and lack of wanting to face the fact that AOE is limited now.
5. Really? lower number of targets you can aoe ruins immersion? OK that one speaks for itself if you think that.
In short, its bad for Tamriel Foundry who loves the advantage of having rolled many AOE characters for its Entropy guild and now will not be able to ZERG their way to victory and feel its too late to change their builds now. Perhaps you should have had some variety Andrew.
Do you really have to read on beyond that? They obviously have self instrest in seeing their AOE builds be unbeatable once again and have no real level playing field and are using their fan site to promote support for being overpowered in PVP.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I posted this in the huge poll for AoE nerf:
No No NO. ZOS, you're literally hitting yourself with an arrow to the knee if you implement this kind of changes to AoE. Mind you, I'm using a templar character, not those DKs+vamp builds (who like those AoE stuff).
Anyways, as a templar, we have a skill that can counter those kind of people. The only thing that annoys me, based on my experience, is the bat swarm's life leech. If only you could nerf certain skills, but NOT TO THIS EXTENT, we would keep PvP fun.
Life leech on a vampire=no damage taken. They should tone it down.
SOLA - www.solaguild.com
(christian guild. Being christian is not required for membership though)
you make the wrong assumption that anyone has any say other then Zos and that they view it as a problem.
The only solution is standard internet procedure:
make lots of posts and have lots of arguments on as many medium as possible forcing the development company to do some form of damage control if the negative side reaches some internal threshold value.
I dislike hard caps..
they should keep these aoe on an unlimmited number, but scale the efect and damage down with the number of people being hit by them....
this is one of those PvP repair actions that has big influence on PvE as well
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Let's play 'devil's advocate' here,
1) AOE caps already exist in the game for AOEs, but was not applied to all AOEs. This has lead to only the non capped AOE's being used primarily resulting in cookie cutter builds, which is not fun for me (and I am pretty sure I am not alone).
2) Spamming one or two AOE's over and over is not skill, it is mindless button mashing.
3) One to four players being able to kill 12+ players of equal level and gear consistantly due to imbalanced powers does not make you elite, and I doubt the players getting killed and feeling obligated to take the same AOE's to counter every one else resulting in the same builds and powers being used does not lead to a fun game for most people I know.
This is not a nerf according to Zenimax, it is fixing a bug with certain AOE's not obeying the caps that were originally intended. Where they screwed up is in not fixing this before the game went live.
I like build diversity. I like to have fun. I do not like being a clone of everyone else spamming the same powers as everyone else.
As usual, vote with your wallet.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o
The new aoe cap in place on the PTS.
This video reminds me of something.
AoE cap or not, if the meta on live becomes this, if I hear the word "STACK", I'm out.
P.S.: ...Do any of you, eh, watch...anime? I could recommend one... it'd give the best notion of how "fictional fighting" should be. (Until then, well, good luck (enduring the frustration...)
Regardless of how unpopular this idea might be to some, I agree with it. This post sums up quite a bit of the reasoning behind it.
So, you are defending the AoE cap? Do you know that if theres an AoE cap and the meta turns into the turtle ball of death on the video above we will still be spamming AoE damage and heals?
pvp will turn into nothing but spamming aoe in giant turtle zergs. right now at least the vamp ult / dk aoe's have the effect of keeping people spread out so single target fights can happen. if the aoe nerf goes in I can see a good portion of the pvp playerbase quitting... the people that would stick with this game through thick and thin because they generate their own content. that's not good for anyone.
diminishing returns based on radius of the aoe spell (center takes 100% damage, outer edges take 10%).
reduce effectiveness of -% ult cost items / talents so ults can't be spammed non stop
add an aoe "mortal strike" effect to a common pool skill line, like the soul tree ultimate.
there, 3 easy fixes that address the issue with aoe but dont place a hard cap on every aoe in the game thus ruining pvp.
The wonderful world of PvP - Skill has no place as everyone will only go for whats easiest and gives them the biggest advantage - AoE spam or clumping/zerg tactics. No matter what they do, one bad change will be countered by another annoying tactic.
Lets just make it so each AoE won't have a cap - just make it so the more people hit by the spell, the less damage the spell does per person. Sure if you nuke a zerg of 20 it might not kill them all, but it will still hit each player for at least 5 points. And to prevent clumping/turtling, make those of the same alliance who clump together take bonus damage from the AoE. Basically if everyone spreads out, less damage but still getting hurt. Clump up and full damage/pile of corpses. Then maybe people will go back to fighting and not complaining. Everyone wins!
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
What? Why would you add diminishing returns the more people the AoE hits and then increase the AoE damage people receive if clumped together? You are biscally changing nothing, just tweak the damage and remove the cap.
BTW, the video is from live, not PTS, theres a cap already on live and the turtling is already starting.
After watching said video with the new changes, I can see your point. Nonetheless, it doesn't really invalidate all of the points vmoped made either. You abuse the shit out of something for long enough to where it becomes a "must have" type of ability (and effectively making certain others useless by comparison), it's more than likely going to get changed. I do agree though that they could probably find a better way to address the issue. Guess we'll see what happens with it.
Such "turtle tactics" wont succeed for longer...
ESO has really strong siege weapons and these siege catapults have no AoE cap at all.
They can be used everywhere in cyrodiil, I want to see how long a slow moving turtle group will survive a coordinated siege attack.
Maybe Iam wrong, but I think this could be the answer.
I don't know if it has been posted already..
www.twitch.tv/prydatv/c/4079857
just...... watch......
Was posted on the first page by spizz
PvP last night for me:
- a fort is under siege, lots of poking people with sticks, giant balls of flames, arrows, charges and counter-charges.
- siege gets broken, defenders charge out, battle commences and it goes back and forth. Archers moving up, DKs pushing the frontline back/forth, V10s causing mayhem, charges and counter-charges.
- a new group appears, runs across the battlefield spamming AoE/AoE CC with healers in the rear, killing everything in seconds.
PBAE in ESO is a really [censored] dumb idea.