Soooo, I am only supposed to play 1 game? Is that what you guys are saying? You are talking as $15 is nothing but that's only one game. I have so many games which I never get around to playing, and sometimes want to play ANOTHER game? I know it's unthinkable to think of playing another game other than the MMO you are married to.
Your comparison to TV is a bit flawed. It's like paying $15 for one channel. Cause for those $15 I can get to play only 1 game. My phone bill is £38 bucks and that includes a phone which would probably cost me £650 if I went out to buy it.
Anyways I can buy so many other games which are dirt cheap and offer quite a lot of entertainment and then I can keep playing them forever.
$60 upfront and $15 after that is quite a lot. That's $75 for 2 months. MMOs have unnecessary time sinks which make them BORING because they want you to play as long as possible. If they could design something to take 2 hours, they are much better off designing so you do the same content in 10-20 hours.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I'm at work most of the time, I'm not a kid any more with loads of time on my hands and even when I'm not working I have other stuff I do in my life. I don't mind games which take a long time to achieve anything, I'm not looking to be rewarded every 5 seconds like games seem to do these days. I used to play EQ back in the day and because my Mum restricted my play time, I never got to end game, over a few years I only managed into the 30s. That doesn't bother me though as I'm more than happy enough to just play for the fun and I don't feel the need to complete everything.
My problem with subscriptions is that it charges you the same rate as everyone else no matter how much you play. So if someone plays 24/7, they're paying exactly the same as someone who only manages to get 4 hours a week in. Sometimes I just don't feel like playing, I haven't bothered with TESO for two weeks now and it is because I haven't felt like going back to it. However what if I have that urge to play it again in a months time to see if they've fixed a lot of issues? I have to pay a subscription, I might only play once and then not bother again. I just end up not bothering with the game at all then...
I think Subscriptions are counter productive and they just put people off and some players feel forced into thinking they need to get as much play time in as possible and get burnt out on the game very fast as a result. So again you'll get a short term income there, but because they got burnt out, they wont be coming back.
F2P is so much better because I can play whenever I want, feel no pressure and I can focus on spending my money on stuff that I feel like I'm getting something out of it, rather than just paying for the privilege to play. I still know many people who say "pay a subscription to play a game?" and it is as alien to them as it was to 99% of gamers before WoW came out. Yet those people pay for bonus content in other games or buy expansions and stuff like that.
I think forced subscriptions have to go and they need to be replaced by optional ones + the F2P model.
Subs are cheap entertainment. Try going for a round of golf and see how much that costs. How about taking your girlfriend (or "life partner" if that is what you have) and spending money for dinner and a movie. A few hours will cost you a couple of MONTHS worth of SUBs.
We could go back to the pay by hour system of the past BEFORE subs came around. Imagine paying $6.00 per hour like AOL NWN. Oh no, you are going to be one of those people who say it should be subprice/"hours you play per month" as a price per hour so that it never reaches the sub price.
Look, you either don't have the time or money for this very cheap price of entertainment.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I'm at work most of the time, I'm not a kid any more with loads of time on my hands and even when I'm not working I have other stuff I do in my life. I don't mind games which take a long time to achieve anything, I'm not looking to be rewarded every 5 seconds like games seem to do these days. I used to play EQ back in the day and because my Mum restricted my play time, I never got to end game, over a few years I only managed into the 30s. That doesn't bother me though as I'm more than happy enough to just play for the fun and I don't feel the need to complete everything.
I'm at work most of the time, I'm not a kid any more with loads of time on my hands and even when I'm not working I have other stuff I do in my life. I don't mind games which take a long time to achieve anything, I'm not looking to be rewarded every 5 seconds like games seem to do these days. I used to play EQ back in the day and because my Mum restricted my play time, I never got to end game, over a few years I only managed into the 30s. That doesn't bother me though as I'm more than happy enough to just play for the fun and I don't feel the need to complete everything.
The two red lines cancel each other out.
Kind of supports the idea that "adults" that complain about a $15.00 sub don't have adult employment. Just think how much it would cost to go to a concert for 3 hours? That would pay for months worth of subs. Take a date to that concert, and you have a lot of months worth of subs.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I love subscription-based games that are designed that way.
I also work a ton, and can't play like I used to, but $15 per month is almost nothing for on-call entertainment.
That and you are on a level playing field with a sub game and its cheaper. In P2W you could easily spend 15 dollars in one day to catch up to the people who have been playing for the past week.
A sub game offers a level playing field. No outside interference. No one has some outside source or entity that gifts their character bonus's.
F2P is fine for those who don''t want a level playing field and just want to hop in and out. But its not good for a true MMORPG where everyone should have access to the EXACT SAME WORLD and opportunities.
I think I dislike the commitment it requires. Too many times my sub would come up and a few days later I found I was bored with the game. It just felt like a waste I guess.
When I compare that to f2p and being able to log in no matter what I just prefer it. I almost always pick the "sub" or premium opinion in f2p games when I'm playing so cost isn't the issue....I've always spent a lot more than $15 a month on gaming. So not getting cut off if I don't pay that month is a big plus to me. It's also a factor when I come back to a game. I'll often play for a few days and if I get hooked I "resub" If I'm still bored with it I leave again. You can't do that in a sub only game.
I don't see all this better community, better game play, more updates in sub games people always seem to be going on about. that has more to do with the company than the payment types. All of them now days seem to be bad at it.
So now we are saying that we have to be able to play the same amount of time as everyone else to make P2P worth it? This really just blew my mind that someone would even say something like that. What I'm tired of is a lot of people now want the Devs to spend countless hours, resources and money to create a game for them and then they never want to pay a penny to support them. This is why the F2P business model will soon go away.
You are now starting to see the rebound of the P2P business model mostly because they have seen how badly the F2P model has failed.
For your average working adult, $15 is nothing. That's the cost of eating out one night (if you're single; if you have a family, it's a fraction of that). For a month's worth of entertainment.
F2P is an abomination that needs to die in a fire. It shifts developer focus from quality content to convenience barriers. Every single game I've played that's made the shift to F2P has seen a huge drop in quality after the switch, LotRO being the most noticeable.
Sure it is, the overwhelming majority of people who play F2P games never pay a red cent. I have never paid anything and never will. That's free. There are things to buy for people with no self-control, but that's not me.
I love subscription-based games that are designed that way.
I also work a ton, and can't play like I used to, but $15 per month is almost nothing for on-call entertainment.
That and you are on a level playing field with a sub game and its cheaper. In P2W you could easily spend 15 dollars in one day to catch up to the people who have been playing for the past week.
A sub game offers a level playing field. No outside interference. No one has some outside source or entity that gifts their character bonus's.
F2P is fine for those who don''t want a level playing field and just want to hop in and out. But its not good for a true MMORPG where everyone should have access to the EXACT SAME WORLD and opportunities.
There is no level playing field in any system. That's a lie. Time is a currency and it has value. People with more time will always have an advantage over those who have less and that is true in either payment system.
Not only that but relying on in game currencies to balance out fairness is a facade because people will and do purchase gold.
Keep on lying to yourself, but those of us who have gamed since the beginning know better. Not only that, but there is no such thing as a completely sub-based game anymore. You pay for digital extras and benefits with pre-order DLC. If someone doesn't purchase the latest xpac they're left behind. Many, if not most, sub-based games also sell digital content in their cash shops (either in game or through a website), and/or they sell in game currency via a PLEX like system.
Level playing field is a trite fantasy people tell themselves to help make their worlds feel fair.
This is an interesting argument. To me I feel that you need time to do most things. For instance you need time to practice chess and get good at it or you need time to practice playing football so you get good at it. Does that mean you pay to advance further then someone else during the game because you didn't have time to practice? By your logic it is okay to pay for advantages in any game that requires time because it's unfair. For some reason this logic only applies to MMOs and video games in general these days.
I love subscription-based games that are designed that way.
I also work a ton, and can't play like I used to, but $15 per month is almost nothing for on-call entertainment.
That and you are on a level playing field with a sub game and its cheaper. In P2W you could easily spend 15 dollars in one day to catch up to the people who have been playing for the past week.
A sub game offers a level playing field. No outside interference. No one has some outside source or entity that gifts their character bonus's.
F2P is fine for those who don''t want a level playing field and just want to hop in and out. But its not good for a true MMORPG where everyone should have access to the EXACT SAME WORLD and opportunities.
There is no level playing field in any system. That's a lie. Time is a currency and it has value. People with more time will always have an advantage over those who have less and that is true in either payment system.
Not only that but relying on in game currencies to balance out fairness is a facade because people will and do purchase gold.
Keep on lying to yourself, but those of us who have gamed since the beginning know better. Not only that, but there is no such thing as a completely sub-based game anymore. You pay for digital extras and benefits with pre-order DLC. If someone doesn't purchase the latest xpac they're left behind. Many, if not most, sub-based games also sell digital content in their cash shops (either in game or through a website), and/or they sell in game currency via a PLEX like system.
Level playing field is a trite fantasy people tell themselves to help make their worlds feel fair.
This is an interesting argument. To me I feel that you need time to do most things. For instance you need time to practice chess and get good at it or you need time to practice playing football so you get good at it. Does that mean you pay to advance further then someone else during the game because you didn't have time to practice? By your logic it is okay to pay for advantages in any game that requires time because it's unfair. For some reason this logic only applies to MMOs and video games in general these days.
You can pay for the best coach or the best mentor and get a faster route to achieving your goals that way instead of beating yourself into a brick wall practicing day in and day out. This logic applies to alot more than just MMOs.
To clarify I'm not defending anyone or anything here, just saying that these things happen outside of video games.
I'm just a bit confused. You would rather not spend 15 bucks a month. For an option where impulse buying can go anywhere from a few dollars to several thousand over the course of the next few months. Where as if you bought a game and subbed for a few months your total investment would only be a little over a hundred bucks. Then we have to look at your sense of balance. How can you justify that balance if someone can basically combine paying and playing extensively to outclass you at every corner? This mind set is one of the reasons why P2P takes such a hit. Consumers get tricked so easily by the "illusion" of free.
Originally posted by LordZeik I'm just a bit confused. You would rather not spend 15 bucks a month. For an option where impulse buying can go anywhere from a few dollars to several thousand over the course of the next few months. Where as if you bought a game and subbed for a few months your total investment would only be a little over a hundred bucks. Then we have to look at your sense of balance. How can you justify that balance if someone can basically combine paying and playing extensively to outclass you at every corner? This mind set is one of the reasons why P2P takes such a hit. Consumers get tricked so easily by the "illusion" of free.
There have been the usual bullshit comparisons put out here such as "phone" "cable" "internet" "movies" " concerts" etc.
Of course none of them are valid. Here is one that is. Think fitness club membership. 30 bucks a month. Either you are going to the fitness club regularly and getting your moneys worth.....
Or
You are sitting on the couch watching reruns of Big Bang Theory and saying " I will go next week"
Finally after a couple of months you say screw it and cancel your membership. It just isn't worth it when you don't have the desire to go.
A much better payment model for this person would be a pay as you go model. It might be more expensive but you only pay for what you use.
Contrary to all the people that say, why are you worried about pissing away 15 bucks a month ( Or 90 dollars in 6 months) , this option makes sense to a lot of people, myself included. I have nothing against a sub model of payment, its just that I know there will be a point somewhere where I would like to continue playing but not enough to warrant that monthly payment. I actually think subs hinder, long term committment to a game but that is just my opinion.
Ooops, edited for bad math!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Subs don't bother me because I wasted alot of money on games as well as other things in the past so a sub fee to checkup on a game whether I play 5 minutes or most of my waking hours of the month is really quite trivial. (equates to 15 min of working pay approx)
Originally posted by emperorwings Subs don't bother me because I wasted alot of money on games as well as other things in the past so a sub fee to checkup on a game whether I play 5 minutes or most of my waking hours of the month is really quite trivial. (equates to 15 min of working pay approx)
It equates to the same for me also but I would still not consider it trivial. Guess us older folks appreciate a buck a bit more than todays generation.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I love subscription-based games that are designed that way.
I also work a ton, and can't play like I used to, but $15 per month is almost nothing for on-call entertainment.
That and you are on a level playing field with a sub game and its cheaper. In P2W you could easily spend 15 dollars in one day to catch up to the people who have been playing for the past week.
A sub game offers a level playing field. No outside interference. No one has some outside source or entity that gifts their character bonus's.
F2P is fine for those who don''t want a level playing field and just want to hop in and out. But its not good for a true MMORPG where everyone should have access to the EXACT SAME WORLD and opportunities.
There is no level playing field in any system. That's a lie. Time is a currency and it has value. People with more time will always have an advantage over those who have less and that is true in either payment system.
Not only that but relying on in game currencies to balance out fairness is a facade because people will and do purchase gold.
Keep on lying to yourself, but those of us who have gamed since the beginning know better. Not only that, but there is no such thing as a completely sub-based game anymore. You pay for digital extras and benefits with pre-order DLC. If someone doesn't purchase the latest xpac they're left behind. Many, if not most, sub-based games also sell digital content in their cash shops (either in game or through a website), and/or they sell in game currency via a PLEX like system.
Level playing field is a trite fantasy people tell themselves to help make their worlds feel fair.
I'm sorry but ive been gaming since the start and i totally disagree with you for the exact reasons you say.
Time is a currency and has a value. And i shouldn't be penalized based on how i choose to spend my time. Subscription based games ARE a level playing field because everybody pays the same thing. How you play the game after that is up to you.
Just like if you join a gym. I dont get to be pissed at the guys walking around with 22" biceps and 8pack abs, because i only have 30 minutes a day, 3 days a week to workout and they spend 3 hours a day 6 days a week in the gym. They put in the time, they reap the rewards.
Now, if those people are spending that much time in the gym, they arent spending it doing something else, maybe i also spend 2 hours a day watching TV shows i enjoy. They won't be able to do that because they're in the gym. Its all a give and take. We're all (mostly) adults and you can live your life the way you choose to.
All we've done is trade a system where people with more time to invest get ahead, to a system where people with more money get ahead.
The difference is F2P systems put a development focus on generating new cash shop content. Sub systems put the focus on developing new content for the game.
On a side note, i find it hilariously amusing that so many people who are willing to complain about how people who more time to invest getting ahead is "unfair", but they're perfectly ok with people who are richer being able to get ahead, it literally defies logic, especially in regards to current societal beliefs/opinions regarding the wealthy.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
If $15/month is too expensive for you even for a game that you like, then it's not likely that you'd pay much in a "free to play" game, either, so why should publishers care about your opinion?
The economic argument for "free to play" isn't that you'll get people to play for free who wouldn't pay a subscription. It's that you'll get a handful of people to pay vastly more than $15/month--and those people necessarily aren't the sort who would complain that $15/month is too expensive.
I'm at work most of the time, I'm not a kid any more with loads of time on my hands and even when I'm not working I have other stuff I do in my life. I don't mind games which take a long time to achieve anything, I'm not looking to be rewarded every 5 seconds like games seem to do these days. I used to play EQ back in the day and because my Mum restricted my play time, I never got to end game, over a few years I only managed into the 30s. That doesn't bother me though as I'm more than happy enough to just play for the fun and I don't feel the need to complete everything.
My problem with subscriptions is that it charges you the same rate as everyone else no matter how much you play. So if someone plays 24/7, they're paying exactly the same as someone who only manages to get 4 hours a week in. Sometimes I just don't feel like playing, I haven't bothered with TESO for two weeks now and it is because I haven't felt like going back to it. However what if I have that urge to play it again in a months time to see if they've fixed a lot of issues? I have to pay a subscription, I might only play once and then not bother again. I just end up not bothering with the game at all then...
I think Subscriptions are counter productive and they just put people off and some players feel forced into thinking they need to get as much play time in as possible and get burnt out on the game very fast as a result. So again you'll get a short term income there, but because they got burnt out, they wont be coming back.
F2P is so much better because I can play whenever I want, feel no pressure and I can focus on spending my money on stuff that I feel like I'm getting something out of it, rather than just paying for the privilege to play. I still know many people who say "pay a subscription to play a game?" and it is as alien to them as it was to 99% of gamers before WoW came out. Yet those people pay for bonus content in other games or buy expansions and stuff like that.
I think forced subscriptions have to go and they need to be replaced by optional ones + the F2P model.
What do you consider a value for your entertainment time? Becasue, I don't think it's hard to justiy squeezing 15 bucks worth of value from a few hours over the course of the month. After that, it's free time.
Even at a dollar an hour. if you play one hour a day, that would still give you 2 weeks of free time after that.
Are you telling me, that an MMO that you enjoy isn't worth at least that much?
24/7 entertainment for less than 50 cents per day............ its the cheapest type of entertainment out there this day in age. Hell its the only thing that hasnt gone up in price 300% in the past decade lol.
You pay your internet bill and dont use it 24/7, you pay for insurance and dont use it 24/7, you pay for electricity and dont use it 24/7, i can name a thousand things you pay a flat rate for and never get your "monies" worth from it.
This is a poor excuse to hate a subscription style payment option.
I can name more things bad about F2P games then you can about subs So many excuses, so many exaggerated examples, i just wish people would come out and truelly tell why they dont want to spend a dime to pay for something they use instead of trying to make the other option is the devil.
Are you telling me, that an MMO that you enjoy isn't worth at least that much?
Yeh .. because of competition.
If i can easily play another MMO for same or more fun for free, why would I pay even a cent for this one? I can afford it, but why shouldn't i use the money to buy a SP game, or even just some junk food instead?
Comments
Soooo, I am only supposed to play 1 game? Is that what you guys are saying? You are talking as $15 is nothing but that's only one game. I have so many games which I never get around to playing, and sometimes want to play ANOTHER game? I know it's unthinkable to think of playing another game other than the MMO you are married to.
Your comparison to TV is a bit flawed. It's like paying $15 for one channel. Cause for those $15 I can get to play only 1 game. My phone bill is £38 bucks and that includes a phone which would probably cost me £650 if I went out to buy it.
Anyways I can buy so many other games which are dirt cheap and offer quite a lot of entertainment and then I can keep playing them forever.
$60 upfront and $15 after that is quite a lot. That's $75 for 2 months. MMOs have unnecessary time sinks which make them BORING because they want you to play as long as possible. If they could design something to take 2 hours, they are much better off designing so you do the same content in 10-20 hours.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Subs are cheap entertainment. Try going for a round of golf and see how much that costs. How about taking your girlfriend (or "life partner" if that is what you have) and spending money for dinner and a movie. A few hours will cost you a couple of MONTHS worth of SUBs.
We could go back to the pay by hour system of the past BEFORE subs came around. Imagine paying $6.00 per hour like AOL NWN. Oh no, you are going to be one of those people who say it should be subprice/"hours you play per month" as a price per hour so that it never reaches the sub price.
Look, you either don't have the time or money for this very cheap price of entertainment.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
green: cancels your cancel
Sorry just had to....
Kind of supports the idea that "adults" that complain about a $15.00 sub don't have adult employment. Just think how much it would cost to go to a concert for 3 hours? That would pay for months worth of subs. Take a date to that concert, and you have a lot of months worth of subs.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That and you are on a level playing field with a sub game and its cheaper. In P2W you could easily spend 15 dollars in one day to catch up to the people who have been playing for the past week.
A sub game offers a level playing field. No outside interference. No one has some outside source or entity that gifts their character bonus's.
F2P is fine for those who don''t want a level playing field and just want to hop in and out. But its not good for a true MMORPG where everyone should have access to the EXACT SAME WORLD and opportunities.
I think I dislike the commitment it requires. Too many times my sub would come up and a few days later I found I was bored with the game. It just felt like a waste I guess.
When I compare that to f2p and being able to log in no matter what I just prefer it. I almost always pick the "sub" or premium opinion in f2p games when I'm playing so cost isn't the issue....I've always spent a lot more than $15 a month on gaming. So not getting cut off if I don't pay that month is a big plus to me. It's also a factor when I come back to a game. I'll often play for a few days and if I get hooked I "resub" If I'm still bored with it I leave again. You can't do that in a sub only game.
I don't see all this better community, better game play, more updates in sub games people always seem to be going on about. that has more to do with the company than the payment types. All of them now days seem to be bad at it.
They are ...
but competition makes them worthless. If i can have similar or more fun for free, why would i pay even a cent?
I pay for SP games (like RoS .. best $40 i have spent on games).
I pay for restaurants (just went to Benihana with family last night .. great experience)
I pay for movies (will take kids to go see Amazing Spiderman 2 in Imax 3D)
.....
But MMOs ... not planning to pay a cent ...
So now we are saying that we have to be able to play the same amount of time as everyone else to make P2P worth it? This really just blew my mind that someone would even say something like that. What I'm tired of is a lot of people now want the Devs to spend countless hours, resources and money to create a game for them and then they never want to pay a penny to support them. This is why the F2P business model will soon go away.
You are now starting to see the rebound of the P2P business model mostly because they have seen how badly the F2P model has failed.
YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY? THEN DON"T PLAY
Peace
Lascer
I piss the average monthly subscription rate away in the blink of an eye.
50¢ a day. Can you come up with it?
For your average working adult, $15 is nothing. That's the cost of eating out one night (if you're single; if you have a family, it's a fraction of that). For a month's worth of entertainment.
F2P is an abomination that needs to die in a fire. It shifts developer focus from quality content to convenience barriers. Every single game I've played that's made the shift to F2P has seen a huge drop in quality after the switch, LotRO being the most noticeable.
Sure it is, the overwhelming majority of people who play F2P games never pay a red cent. I have never paid anything and never will. That's free. There are things to buy for people with no self-control, but that's not me.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
This is an interesting argument. To me I feel that you need time to do most things. For instance you need time to practice chess and get good at it or you need time to practice playing football so you get good at it. Does that mean you pay to advance further then someone else during the game because you didn't have time to practice? By your logic it is okay to pay for advantages in any game that requires time because it's unfair. For some reason this logic only applies to MMOs and video games in general these days.
You can pay for the best coach or the best mentor and get a faster route to achieving your goals that way instead of beating yourself into a brick wall practicing day in and day out. This logic applies to alot more than just MMOs.
To clarify I'm not defending anyone or anything here, just saying that these things happen outside of video games.
You can't use common sense in this argument. :P
There have been the usual bullshit comparisons put out here such as "phone" "cable" "internet" "movies" " concerts" etc.
Of course none of them are valid. Here is one that is. Think fitness club membership. 30 bucks a month. Either you are going to the fitness club regularly and getting your moneys worth.....
Or
You are sitting on the couch watching reruns of Big Bang Theory and saying " I will go next week"
Finally after a couple of months you say screw it and cancel your membership. It just isn't worth it when you don't have the desire to go.
A much better payment model for this person would be a pay as you go model. It might be more expensive but you only pay for what you use.
Contrary to all the people that say, why are you worried about pissing away 15 bucks a month ( Or 90 dollars in 6 months) , this option makes sense to a lot of people, myself included. I have nothing against a sub model of payment, its just that I know there will be a point somewhere where I would like to continue playing but not enough to warrant that monthly payment. I actually think subs hinder, long term committment to a game but that is just my opinion.
Ooops, edited for bad math!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
This is exactly what i think about when I read someone saying they can't justify subs.
There are plenty of free games out there.....you will probably spend more money than time on them,but hey you have to sacrifice something.
Or as has been suggested, stick to single player games.
Playing ESO or WS now? If so, tell us how long you plan to subscribe.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
It equates to the same for me also but I would still not consider it trivial. Guess us older folks appreciate a buck a bit more than todays generation.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I'm sorry but ive been gaming since the start and i totally disagree with you for the exact reasons you say.
Time is a currency and has a value. And i shouldn't be penalized based on how i choose to spend my time. Subscription based games ARE a level playing field because everybody pays the same thing. How you play the game after that is up to you.
Just like if you join a gym. I dont get to be pissed at the guys walking around with 22" biceps and 8pack abs, because i only have 30 minutes a day, 3 days a week to workout and they spend 3 hours a day 6 days a week in the gym. They put in the time, they reap the rewards.
Now, if those people are spending that much time in the gym, they arent spending it doing something else, maybe i also spend 2 hours a day watching TV shows i enjoy. They won't be able to do that because they're in the gym. Its all a give and take. We're all (mostly) adults and you can live your life the way you choose to.
All we've done is trade a system where people with more time to invest get ahead, to a system where people with more money get ahead.
The difference is F2P systems put a development focus on generating new cash shop content. Sub systems put the focus on developing new content for the game.
On a side note, i find it hilariously amusing that so many people who are willing to complain about how people who more time to invest getting ahead is "unfair", but they're perfectly ok with people who are richer being able to get ahead, it literally defies logic, especially in regards to current societal beliefs/opinions regarding the wealthy.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
If $15/month is too expensive for you even for a game that you like, then it's not likely that you'd pay much in a "free to play" game, either, so why should publishers care about your opinion?
The economic argument for "free to play" isn't that you'll get people to play for free who wouldn't pay a subscription. It's that you'll get a handful of people to pay vastly more than $15/month--and those people necessarily aren't the sort who would complain that $15/month is too expensive.
What do you consider a value for your entertainment time? Becasue, I don't think it's hard to justiy squeezing 15 bucks worth of value from a few hours over the course of the month. After that, it's free time.
Even at a dollar an hour. if you play one hour a day, that would still give you 2 weeks of free time after that.
Are you telling me, that an MMO that you enjoy isn't worth at least that much?
24/7 entertainment for less than 50 cents per day............ its the cheapest type of entertainment out there this day in age. Hell its the only thing that hasnt gone up in price 300% in the past decade lol.
You pay your internet bill and dont use it 24/7, you pay for insurance and dont use it 24/7, you pay for electricity and dont use it 24/7, i can name a thousand things you pay a flat rate for and never get your "monies" worth from it.
This is a poor excuse to hate a subscription style payment option.
I can name more things bad about F2P games then you can about subs
So many excuses, so many exaggerated examples, i just wish people would come out and truelly tell why they dont want to spend a dime to pay for something they use instead of trying to make the other option is the devil.
Yeh .. because of competition.
If i can easily play another MMO for same or more fun for free, why would I pay even a cent for this one? I can afford it, but why shouldn't i use the money to buy a SP game, or even just some junk food instead?