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Feeling useful

LerxstLerxst Member UncommonPosts: 648
in LFGame

The subject says what I'm more or less looking for in a new game; that feeling of usefulness. I'll give up most of my usual demands like "PvP" or "sandbox" as long as there's a feeling of usefulness on my (players) part.

 

Games that did it well a while ago have aged poorly and no longer cut it - SWG, DAoC, UO, etc.

 

A primary part of the "usefulness" is the crafting system - crafting items people need and/or want throughout the entire game. This involves:

 

  • Specialized crafters so that anyone and everyone can't just level up the crafting skill and gear themselves up.
  • Limitations on resource gathering - nodes that despawn or "run dry", weight limits, etc.
  • Overlapping crafting schools, IE Leathercrafting items are required to make Metal armor.
  • Player-crafted gear that's on-par and better than loot drops.
This also involves classes:
 
  • Support classes that are specialized in their roles - no "jack-of-all-trades" classes that out-perform others.
  • Multiple skills to choose from, but limitations on how many can be chosen.
These are the the primary things that kept me interested in games like Dark Age of Camelot - being a Healing-specialized Cleric early on when most went for damage/stun; or Star Wars Galaxies - knowing that crafters of any level were going to be selling equipment that I needed - weapons, ammo, etc..
 
 
A lot of the niche games now, seem to put no limitations on the class of character people can play (see Darkfall) that ends up turning into a race to be the same cookie-cutter as the next by the end of the game.
 
 
The last feature - a sense of purpose:
 
  • PvP is neither good nor bad in my opinion, but if it exists, make it serve a purpose; not the Darkfall gank-fest or the meaningless CTF arenas the easier-going games prefer.
  • A game that's not so massive and old that a new player just starting has next-to-nothing to contribute to their side/faction/community.
  • A game that actually makes you grind in order to advance anything; not offline skill queues that advance your character no matter what.
Those last few features kind of focus on my issues with EVE. Starting a new player in EVE at this point is an exercise in futility seeing as how you will never be a functional member of the game doing anything even remotely beneficial for any group of players - you won't be among the best crafters, you won't be the best pirates/pkers, you won't be the richest and you won't be among the best shipbuilders. A new player in a game like that can only hope to be the best of the worst, but never really advance.
 
 
As I said, everything else is just icing on the cake as long as these key features are present and the game makes me feel like a useful part of the game while playing it. I've tried Runescape recently, but that suffers the trend of everyone doing their own thing and no one having to rely on another for anything. Thousands of players online, yet the chat had only 2 people talking while everyone just ran around chaotically or sat motionless. My presence there made no difference what-so-ever.
 

Comments

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449
    Originally posted by Lerxst

    The subject says what I'm more or less looking for in a new game; that feeling of usefulness. I'll give up most of my usual demands like "PvP" or "sandbox" as long as there's a feeling of usefulness on my (players) part.

     

    Games that did it well a while ago have aged poorly and no longer cut it - SWG, DAoC, UO, etc.

     

    A primary part of the "usefulness" is the crafting system - crafting items people need and/or want throughout the entire game. This involves:

     

    • Specialized crafters so that anyone and everyone can't just level up the crafting skill and gear themselves up.
    • Limitations on resource gathering - nodes that despawn or "run dry", weight limits, etc.
    • Overlapping crafting schools, IE Leathercrafting items are required to make Metal armor.
    • Player-crafted gear that's on-par and better than loot drops.
    This also involves classes:
     
    • Support classes that are specialized in their roles - no "jack-of-all-trades" classes that out-perform others.
    • Multiple skills to choose from, but limitations on how many can be chosen.
    These are the the primary things that kept me interested in games like Dark Age of Camelot - being a Healing-specialized Cleric early on when most went for damage/stun; or Star Wars Galaxies - knowing that crafters of any level were going to be selling equipment that I needed - weapons, ammo, etc..
     
     
    A lot of the niche games now, seem to put no limitations on the class of character people can play (see Darkfall) that ends up turning into a race to be the same cookie-cutter as the next by the end of the game.
     
     
    The last feature - a sense of purpose:
     
    • PvP is neither good nor bad in my opinion, but if it exists, make it serve a purpose; not the Darkfall gank-fest or the meaningless CTF arenas the easier-going games prefer.
    • A game that's not so massive and old that a new player just starting has next-to-nothing to contribute to their side/faction/community.
    • A game that actually makes you grind in order to advance anything; not offline skill queues that advance your character no matter what.
    Those last few features kind of focus on my issues with EVE. Starting a new player in EVE at this point is an exercise in futility seeing as how you will never be a functional member of the game doing anything even remotely beneficial for any group of players - you won't be among the best crafters, you won't be the best pirates/pkers, you won't be the richest and you won't be among the best shipbuilders. A new player in a game like that can only hope to be the best of the worst, but never really advance.
     
     
    As I said, everything else is just icing on the cake as long as these key features are present and the game makes me feel like a useful part of the game while playing it. I've tried Runescape recently, but that suffers the trend of everyone doing their own thing and no one having to rely on another for anything. Thousands of players online, yet the chat had only 2 people talking while everyone just ran around chaotically or sat motionless. My presence there made no difference what-so-ever.
     

     

    You are so wrong about EVE. You can very easily become relevant in whatever you want to do. PvP isn't about having the most skills, it's about having the right ship/fit for the right fight. You can very easily specialize in what you want to do.

     

    It's true that a veteran will be much more flexible in what they can fly, but a 15 million isk interceptor can easily kill a 2 billion isk ratting pirate faction battleship.

     

    This is one of the worst misconceptions people have with EVE. The chances of you fighting someone 1v1 in a scenario where you both have the same ship/fit and their advantage is that they have more skills is probably less than 1%.

  • LerxstLerxst Member UncommonPosts: 648
    Originally posted by helthros
    Originally posted by Lerxst

    The subject says what I'm more or less looking for in a new game; that feeling of usefulness. I'll give up most of my usual demands like "PvP" or "sandbox" as long as there's a feeling of usefulness on my (players) part.

     

    Games that did it well a while ago have aged poorly and no longer cut it - SWG, DAoC, UO, etc.

     

    A primary part of the "usefulness" is the crafting system - crafting items people need and/or want throughout the entire game. This involves:

     

    • Specialized crafters so that anyone and everyone can't just level up the crafting skill and gear themselves up.
    • Limitations on resource gathering - nodes that despawn or "run dry", weight limits, etc.
    • Overlapping crafting schools, IE Leathercrafting items are required to make Metal armor.
    • Player-crafted gear that's on-par and better than loot drops.
    This also involves classes:
     
    • Support classes that are specialized in their roles - no "jack-of-all-trades" classes that out-perform others.
    • Multiple skills to choose from, but limitations on how many can be chosen.
    These are the the primary things that kept me interested in games like Dark Age of Camelot - being a Healing-specialized Cleric early on when most went for damage/stun; or Star Wars Galaxies - knowing that crafters of any level were going to be selling equipment that I needed - weapons, ammo, etc..
     
     
    A lot of the niche games now, seem to put no limitations on the class of character people can play (see Darkfall) that ends up turning into a race to be the same cookie-cutter as the next by the end of the game.
     
     
    The last feature - a sense of purpose:
     
    • PvP is neither good nor bad in my opinion, but if it exists, make it serve a purpose; not the Darkfall gank-fest or the meaningless CTF arenas the easier-going games prefer.
    • A game that's not so massive and old that a new player just starting has next-to-nothing to contribute to their side/faction/community.
    • A game that actually makes you grind in order to advance anything; not offline skill queues that advance your character no matter what.
    Those last few features kind of focus on my issues with EVE. Starting a new player in EVE at this point is an exercise in futility seeing as how you will never be a functional member of the game doing anything even remotely beneficial for any group of players - you won't be among the best crafters, you won't be the best pirates/pkers, you won't be the richest and you won't be among the best shipbuilders. A new player in a game like that can only hope to be the best of the worst, but never really advance.
     
     
    As I said, everything else is just icing on the cake as long as these key features are present and the game makes me feel like a useful part of the game while playing it. I've tried Runescape recently, but that suffers the trend of everyone doing their own thing and no one having to rely on another for anything. Thousands of players online, yet the chat had only 2 people talking while everyone just ran around chaotically or sat motionless. My presence there made no difference what-so-ever.
     

     

    You are so wrong about EVE. You can very easily become relevant in whatever you want to do. PvP isn't about having the most skills, it's about having the right ship/fit for the right fight. You can very easily specialize in what you want to do.

     

    It's true that a veteran will be much more flexible in what they can fly, but a 15 million isk interceptor can easily kill a 2 billion isk ratting pirate faction battleship.

     

    This is one of the worst misconceptions people have with EVE. The chances of you fighting someone 1v1 in a scenario where you both have the same ship/fit and their advantage is that they have more skills is probably less than 1%.

    So I could be 1 of 100's of people in a battle and just serve as cannon fodder for the enemies, or I can join a corp and be the equivalent of a mail-room janitor. This isn't being useful. These aren't selling points. Read the subject again; I'm looking for a game where a player can still start and be a useful member of the world, not one that's so developed it's either dead or everyone else is running around with 10 toons in their account, equipped with EPIC gear and billions in their bank vaults.

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