You PVPers risk NOTHING why should you get all the rewards. when they start implementing actual real punishments for being a bandit and attacking traders then and only then should you get all the rewards.
I am fine with 100% loot loss, though I would prefer if the pirates had more risk. Maybe longer prison terms and/or large fines, or possibly full gear confiscation if convicted.
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
So I just recently started following ArcheAge, but one of the things brought up alot on forums and other places was this idea that the 1.0 Patch in Korea basically boned the games Trading Caravans over.
Now why is this?
So basically the way it worked before is you would have a trade caravan and you would transport gold to gilda coins, and the way it originally worked is if you were the victim of theft, and your caravan got raided your gold was taken and you were basically boned, you got nothing for the work you put into trying to transport it.
So then the 1.0 Patch made it so that if your stuff got stolen when the pirate traded the gold in, the Pirate would get 60% of the gold exchange and the victim of the theft would get 40% on the exchange.
So basically what happened from there on out, is people would purposfully leave their caravans along the coast to be raided, so the Pirates would take their Caravan and trade it in for them, cause HEY! Why not? I mean your getting 40% still and you dont have to do any of the work. (Again Im just now getting this information so please correct anything Im missing out on.)
This is just rediculous to me, and apparently what Trion has worked out with XLGAMES is that now, in the Western Version, Pirates will get 80% and the victim will get 20%.
Which still doesnt make any fucking sense! I mean your the victim of theft, you should get jack all from the ordeal, thats why they have a court system and other things in place to make pirating hard, and apparently pirating really is difficult, so they shouldnt have to share their theft with the person they stole from am I right?
Anyways, when Beta comes around, everyone please fight for Trion to change it and negotiate it back to 0 - 100% for the pirates, because in no way does it make sense for a victim of theft to get 20% of what was stolen from them, the theif isnt going to write them a nice letter going "O hey i stole your caravan but heres some compensation", its just bad design.
Reading this - if you're weak enough and stupid enough to get ganked by a raid party - screw you... why not perma death loser
Originally posted by Creslin321As many people here have said, the issue here isn't about PvP vs. PvE or "carebears." This is about the risk/reward ratio of traders and pirates being WAY too different.The trader risks a LOT. The cost of their trade pack, the time they spend running the trade, and their boat. The pirate risks basically nothing...a few minutes in jail time, which is nearly always less than the amount of time it would take to run an actual trade. AND that is only if they get caught.In addition, you can wind up getting a lot more gilda starts through piracy because you don't need to actually run the packs...people just bring them to you. This is stupid, it makes piracy, a very low risk, high reward activity; and trading a very high risk, medium reward activity.The problem is the penalty for piracy...I love the court system, but the penalties are a joke. Big deal, 12 minutes in jail...Oooohhh. And even if someone commits enough crimes to get a lot of time in jail...all that means is that they go AFK for a night and they are back to piracy the next day. And they can even escape if they want to.The penalties need to be redone so that people actually want to avoid them. Here's an idea...how about penalties are in gold and/or gilda stars. Instead of 12 minutes in jail, it's 12 gold or 3 gilda stars...something like that. These fines could be redistributed to victims of the crimes. You probably wouldn't get back what you lost...but it would be nice to know that if you get ganked and robbed you may one day get some kind of compensation for it.Even better, make it so that if the pirate can't afford the fines levied on them, then the court would randomly repossess one of their good items (quality depending on the amount they owe), and they wouldn't get it back until they pay off their debt.I bet that people would think twice about piracy if you stand to lose 15 gilda stars if you are caught.
Nice!
Never going to happen. Trion has already said they want the NA/EU client to be more sandbox then the Korean client who added more Themepark. They have said many times over how they want this game and are not going to change the penalty's / game mechanics.
The people are happy with how it works now.... there are only a handfull of people who complain about it.... Sorry man this is not the mmo you are looking for and neither should you want to change it into something it will never be. Accept the rules or take your ball and go home.
You should always hope developers will get their heads out of their asses and make a better game.
I will be playing either way, because it is fun, but if you are happy with the game you should rethink risk vs reward as it should work 2 ways. good lord this is common frickin sense. My guess is your a pirate and love that there is no consequence...like i said earlier, i do not blame you as you have 0 risk and all the rewards. (which i do not blame you..the system is flawed and you are actually doing nothing wrong, but that does not mean the system is good, it is not)
It will only hurt the game in the long run if they do not balance the system...hell they will end up with so many pirates there may be few traders. Or the traders will say screw it and stick to non pvp areas...and there goes the pirate fun....if they leave it this way it just shows they have no clue what balance means...but they would not be the first company to duck their heads in the sand.
Encourage logical change, or grow stagnant. (and take your ball with you)
There is a reality - the pvp community ALWAYS cries about the carebears - ALWAYS and since they are vocal, the dev team pays them mind... and so the carebears start to leave [think casuals with lives] and the devs, responding to the decaying market, nerf the game, so the pvpers leave. Is there a balance point? LoTRO had the Moors... which was good, TSW has areas of contention which work. This game, coming from the same development tree, reminds me of Lineage and Aion...seems like the hidden message is - travel in a gang after 30 cause you're going to get ganked otherwise [hahaha]. And the quest theft issue, I agree, it's a cost to make the stuff, it's a bore moving it [Sarah Oakheart passed me three times when I was carrying iron] and the reward is a house that you pay 3 gold a week for [do I hear gold farmers heading this way - you better believe it].
So, end of the day. How would *I* characterize it? Disappointing.
It is a time sink and I don't have 6 hours a day to devote to it.
It is a grinder... oh you can stop the "kill ten rats" quests after a certain point and get partial credit or you can go 60% past and get "exceeds" credit or you can go way past and complete the secret quests but it's still grind
Toxic community - of course, that is a hallmark of pvp games. If you ask questions, you are either a carebear or noob, regardless, you are now a target. And this is in the alpha - the version that cost many players $150 to enter... what fun it will be as F2P.
Bottom line - I like games that I can play with my wife - this game is not it. Infantile chat bordering on and occasionally crossing into vile.
So in the words of the OP - I am taking my ball [yes, they got my $300 - sorry but that's not a lot compared to what I would have spent] and moving down the road. lol - back to Fusang....
People weren't upset over the patches or the game, that is just a front. People are/were upset over cheaters that could autokill and autoloot. Dig a little deeper the truth is out there "mostly deleted" and hopefully Trion is going to be on top of that before official launch over here, which signs point to not as alot of data for ArcheAge is saved user side.
Much bigger things to worry about than what you are talking about and people spending money on the game looking for a headtstart and a future investment might be in for a shock once this launches and realize the real reason people quit this game in Korea.
I see the crafting and pvp part of this game as a bit yin and yang, ever circling each other, different but important to each other. Not "one or the other".
Maybe a little bit off topic, and i really don't want to go into the discussion about the OP.
But crafting and pvp is in a lot of games yin and yang and the one profits from the other.
- PvPers are not willingly to raid for gear.. or with other words they are dependend to be able to buy gear.
- PvPers(some) are usually content with item destruction, item decay or item loot.. all of that increases the demand of items
That means
- PvPers are the best customers of crafters
- PvP gameplay(item destruction, item loot, item decay) increases the demand for crafters and improves the gameplay from crafter.
In contrary to PvE players or specifically (Raiders)
- those are mostly not content with any form of item destruction, item decay or anything that their gear will be destroyed at one point or the other
- they don't like to buy stuff from crafters.. they expect to get all their gear from raids, and expect that raid gear is better than any crafted gear
With other words Crafters and PvPer do often synergize.. Raiders and Crafters, or Raiders and PvPers don't.
And it is not surprising that pvpers often do like to craft as pve activity, more often than killing some mobs or raids.
Hafta agree with most posters here and not the OP. PvE players loose everything and Pirates have nothing to loose. If they get caught, well anyone playing now will know the justice system is a joke. I'm all for 100% loss to the Traders.
But in return I would expect a HUGE punishment for pirates/griefers. Rather than minutes in jail...should be days or months. Homes/properties reclaimed. Loss of bank use or any kind of city vendor. You want realism....well what happens to a criminal on the run? Their names are known, and everybody is gunning for them. Now put that kinda realism on the griefers...see how long they last.
If the game weren't free to play, meaning people can have multiple griefer accounts with no properties, it would be the best deterrent ever to let a jury of players award confiscated property to the aggrieved victims of captured thieves.
I wish some of the people posting in this thread were designing our games instead of the people who are designing them.
It is a lot easier to armchair develop than to do it for real.
It is easier to armchair develop. But that is not even the issue here. They can develop the game to give more rewards to the ganker/griefer. Why can't they make it more challenging for that group? They talk all 'Risk/Reward' stuff...as long as it is someone else taking the risk while they reap the rewards.
Originally posted by Horusra And this game can be the next Darkfall with a very small population.
And when it dies for lack of population, the gankers will claim something else killed it, like the grind or the graphics or the monetization. They'll never admit they killed it. Meanwhile, the ffa PvPers who actually play for reasons other than griefing will keep listening to the gankers and griping about how sad it is that everyone likes themeparks, never realizing that many of us prefer sandboxes or hybrids, but not if we have to put up with the gankers.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Originally posted by Horusra And this game can be the next Darkfall with a very small population.
And when it dies for lack of population, the gankers will claim something else killed it, like the grind or the graphics or the monetization. They'll never admit they killed it. Meanwhile, the ffa PvPers who actually play for reasons other than griefing will keep listening to the gankers and griping about how sad it is that everyone likes themeparks, never realizing that many of us prefer sandboxes or hybrids, but not if we have to put up with the gankers.
The hardcore population claims since OBT(Korea, more than a 1 year ago) that it will die. And not because of the pvp, because there is not really a lot.. AA is rather safe so to speak. But because of the economy. No item decay/item destruction is just a no-go for any sandbox game.. another one would be that it may be more and more a themepark instead of a sandbox/park.
We will see what happens.. but to compare ArcheAge to Darkfall (pvp wise) is a joke..
- ArcheAge does have a lot of safe zones. Hell even Tradepack trading is possible with some safe zones spots. And can be avoided completely with daily grind quests.
- More or less no looting, expect Tradepacks... and that is just a minigame.
- No real penalty for dying.. or a very soft one.. so it doesn't matter when you die
So please don't pretend ArcheAge would be a hardcore pvp game.. because it is not.
Hardcore Spectrum
Darkfall > EvE > Lineage 2 >>> ArcheAge, somewhere between DAoC and WoW.
And yes.. ArcheAge is not FFA pvp.. not like Darkfall, EvE or Lineage 2.
I don't understand why people are comparing ArcheAge with full PvP games that have twitch based action combat and full loot.
ArcheAge is a nice blend of just the right risk vs reward systems for a good many people. People coming from several games such as WoW or Rift understand the honor points system as a motivation for PvP which is in AA.
Then there is the trade packs system which is another large motivation for everyone.
In my mind it's the perfect system and going full loot or more harsh penalties than the current jail systems and pirate/faction systems would be to much.
Originally posted by Horusra And this game can be the next Darkfall with a very small population.
And when it dies for lack of population, the gankers will claim something else killed it, like the grind or the graphics or the monetization. They'll never admit they killed it. Meanwhile, the ffa PvPers who actually play for reasons other than griefing will keep listening to the gankers and griping about how sad it is that everyone likes themeparks, never realizing that many of us prefer sandboxes or hybrids, but not if we have to put up with the gankers.
The hardcore population claims since OBT(Korea, more than a 1 year ago) that it will die. And not because of the pvp, because there is not really a lot.. AA is rather safe so to speak. But because of the economy. No item decay/item destruction is just a no-go for any sandbox game.. another one would be that it may be more and more a themepark instead of a sandbox/park.
We will see what happens.. but to compare ArcheAge to Darkfall (pvp wise) is a joke..
- ArcheAge does have a lot of safe zones. Hell even Tradepack trading is possible with some safe zones spots. And can be avoided completely with daily grind quests.
- More or less no looting, expect Tradepacks... and that is just a minigame.
- No real penalty for dying.. or a very soft one.. so it doesn't matter when you die
So please don't pretend ArcheAge would be a hardcore pvp game.. because it is not.
Hardcore Spectrum
Darkfall > EvE > Lineage 2 >>> ArcheAge, somewhere between DAoC and WoW.
And yes.. ArcheAge is not FFA pvp.. not like Darkfall, EvE or Lineage 2.
If you are correct, you just prove the point that when devs try to bring in all types of gamers with one server ruleset, they're making a huge mistake and will fail.
And most of my WOW characters are on a PvP server. So I know how annoying and time consuming the gankers can make things even when you lose nothing at all besides time.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
And just for the sake of sharing information.. because obviously not all people got how the pvp system looks, especially for players looking to avoid pvp.
Ok.. here a quick overview:
The world is separated in 3 continents + the open sea.
North Continent + Open Sea are always on PvP Zones. You can PK(kill your own faction) or PvP(kill one of the other factions)
The two south continents, are the two NPC Factions every player joins in the beginning.
Half of those south continents are complete safe zones. No PvP/PK whatsoever. And there are farming/housing spots,too. With other words a PvE only player never have tp leave them, never will risk to get attacked.
Now to the other half of both south continents. Those are PvP Zones, but with different States of PvP.
PvP Scale 1-5. PK possible PvP with other faction possible. PvP activity increases PvP scale from 1/5 to max. 5/5. If 5/5 is reaches it starts War Time Full Out War with bonus honor points for a certain time. As much as i know 30 min.. preparation. 1 hour War time. After that there is 2 hours peace time.
And now listen exactly all PvE Only players. In this 2 hours peace time there is no PvP/PK whatsoever in the PvP zones at the two south continents. And you can do unharmed whatever you want there.. Quests, Exploring, Whatever. After the 2 hours peace, it starts again with PvP Scale 1/5, and there may be some PK/PvP.
With other words.. you can do whatever you want(PvE activities) completely safe in ArcheAge as a PvE player... Just stay in the safe zones and just enter pvp zones at peace time. And some part of the coast(sea) is even part of the pve zones.. so you can even sail a bit.. just never enter the open sea. Although... you don't get instakilled, and you don't lose anything. You may have to repair your ship.. but that's about it.
If you want do trade runs(mini game, and you really don't have to do.. it is a pvp minigame.. not a pve activity), there are even some in safe areas with less profit.. so that even pve only player can try it out without risk.. on the other side it is not a lot of fun without any danger and pvp.
And the currency you can earn through Trade runs can also be earned from daily quests within a safe zone. With other words.. there is no need for trade runs for pve only players.
With other words.. ArcheAge already tries to please both.. pvp and pve only players. And there is really no reason for pve only players to cry me a river.
If you are correct, you just prove the point that when devs try to bring in all types of gamers with one server ruleset, they're making a huge mistake and will fail.
And most of my WOW characters are on a PvP server. So I know how annoying and time consuming the gankers can make things even when you lose nothing at all besides time.
And therefore i said it is between DAoC and WoW. It is not that hard as WoW PvP, where you could be attacked everywhere, but don't lose anything. and DAoC, where you can only be attacked at certain areas, and lose nothing.
Just read my post above. ArcheAge will not die because of the absent of PvE players, or because they force PvP upon them(because they don't), but because of the economy or because it may become a themepark.. as long as they don't do anything against it.
Edit:
And another sidenote. There is no need for actual trading. There is a global AH for that.
Those trade runs are only a gimicky mini game. You have to craft, or buy from crafters specially made trading packs, those trading packs don't have any other purpose. Those player made trading packs can now be delivered to NPC merchants, and you get a tiny reward. Those trading packs are rather cheap, and crafter (pve only player) can make money for selling it. And for pvp players it is a nice little mini game to either deliver them, or to steal them from others. No other effect or purpose in it.. just a mini game.
If you are correct, you just prove the point that when devs try to bring in all types of gamers with one server ruleset, they're making a huge mistake and will fail.
And most of my WOW characters are on a PvP server. So I know how annoying and time consuming the gankers can make things even when you lose nothing at all besides time.
And therefore i said it is between DAoC and WoW. It is not that hard as WoW PvP, where you could be attacked everywhere, but don't lose anything. and DAoC, where you can only be attacked at certain areas, and lose nothing.
Just read my post above. ArcheAge will not die because of the absent of PvE players, or because they force PvP upon them(because they don't), but because of the economy or because it may become a themepark.. as long as they don't do anything against it.
Edit:
And another sidenote. There is no need for actual trading. There is a global AH for that.
Those trade runs are only a gimicky mini game. You have to craft, or buy from crafters specially made trading packs, those trading packs don't have any other purpose. Those player made trading packs can now be delivered to NPC merchants, and you get a tiny reward. Those trading packs are rather cheap, and crafter (pve only player) can make money for selling it. And for pvp players it is a nice little mini game to either deliver them, or to steal them from others. No other effect or purpose in it.. just a mini game.
Well at least it's free to play. Patient players who don't buy into the $150 now and don't buy into what open beta costs can wait to see if there will be room for large farms and houses in completely safe areas and whether playing in the safe areas is fun, as well as profitable enough to keep rent paid on the farms and houses.
From what I'm reading by alpha players, there is no room in safe areas for farms and houses at the moment. A great reason for every player who doesn't want to deal with gankers to hold on to their wallets and wait awhile.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
If you are correct, you just prove the point that when devs try to bring in all types of gamers with one server ruleset, they're making a huge mistake and will fail.
And most of my WOW characters are on a PvP server. So I know how annoying and time consuming the gankers can make things even when you lose nothing at all besides time.
And therefore i said it is between DAoC and WoW. It is not that hard as WoW PvP, where you could be attacked everywhere, but don't lose anything. and DAoC, where you can only be attacked at certain areas, and lose nothing.
Just read my post above. ArcheAge will not die because of the absent of PvE players, or because they force PvP upon them(because they don't), but because of the economy or because it may become a themepark.. as long as they don't do anything against it.
Edit:
And another sidenote. There is no need for actual trading. There is a global AH for that.
Those trade runs are only a gimicky mini game. You have to craft, or buy from crafters specially made trading packs, those trading packs don't have any other purpose. Those player made trading packs can now be delivered to NPC merchants, and you get a tiny reward. Those trading packs are rather cheap, and crafter (pve only player) can make money for selling it. And for pvp players it is a nice little mini game to either deliver them, or to steal them from others. No other effect or purpose in it.. just a mini game.
Well at least it's free to play. Patient players who don't buy into the $150 now and don't buy into what open beta costs can wait to see if there will be room for large farms and houses in completely safe areas and whether playing in the safe areas is fun, as well as profitable enough to keep rent paid on the farms and houses.
From what I'm reading by alpha players, there is no room in safe areas for farms and houses at the moment. A great reason for every player who doesn't want to deal with gankers to hold on to their wallets and wait awhile.
Sometimes people don't pay their house/farm taxes, if they go unpaid for 2 weeks than the house is demolished creating new space. My guild members scout around checking homes to see if any are due for demolishing.
Join a good guild. Build a few trade ships. Do a guild Trade run. Hire people to protect you. AA is not a single player game you need to be in a strong guild to succeed . Having played a few weeks I am having a blast in the Alpha it is a lot of fun. The Trading has a lot of elements from EVE . Stay in the safe areas if you dont want to be robbed. How about all of you folks who are having a hard time grasping the risk/reward part of the game form a Bounty hunter guild and hunt the Criminals? Of course you can always play ESO/Wildstar/WoW/GW2 and be safe and sound .
PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was. Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.
Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge. And Im okay with that.
This right here should be quoted, etched in stone, printed on plaques and become required learning for everyone playing MMOs.
Among all the "wtf are they thinking?" type attitudes, remarks and actions I see from people, this one is one of the most confusing to me - because the solution is so simple and self-evident that most people do it - in most every other aspect of their lives - without thinking about it. It's instinctual.
Example.
You want a steak. A really good steak.
You don't go to a restaurant specializing in Vegetarian cuisine and demand they add meat to the menu, because you want to eat a cow. You go to a steakhouse where making a really good steak is what they specialize in.
If you like heavy metal music, you don't go to a Country Western show and demand they start playing heavy metal covers. You go somewhere that specializes in bands who play heavy metal covers.
And on and on. I'm sure every single person reading this post could list off a dozen examples of how they follow that very same logic, every day, with a hundred other things, without even thinking about it. You just do it because it's the rational, sane thing to do.
Yet, somehow... when it comes to MMOs, that all goes out the window. We end up in some Twilight Zone, where people regularly go into forums for games that clearly don't cater to the playstyle they're seeking, and begin demanding the developers change their game to suit them. Often, they resort to insulting, or dismissing the people for whom the game actually is intended and whom are there following the game for the right reasons.
If you want a PvP MMO experience, go look up games that focus around PvP. If you want a PvE only experience, look into games that focus around PvE.
Simple! Why do so many people not seem to get this?
There are literally hundreds of choices out there. Surely one of them will satisfy your preferences "out of the box".
I want to sit down and have a steak with rock music playing in the background . I really detest country music, but I love steak. And there is only one steak place in town. Sadly the one and only place to have a steak is playing country music. The other places all serve vegetarian food.
So I go to see if maybe the steak house would like my business enough to open up a backroom and play rock music in it. Meanwhile, Sue likes steak so much that, even though she hates country music, she shuts up and goes to eat her steak with country music playing. But after a few visits, she can't stomach the music anymore and quits going there. She doesn't tell the owner why, she just goes to the vegetarian place down the street that plays rock music and gives up on steak.
Don't be like Sue. If you want steak and rock music, or steak and country music, or veggies and country music with a side of country rock, or anything else, ask for it. All anyone can do is say no. But if enough people want something and have money to buy it, and ask for it, someone is going to give it to them.
Who does this? The only reason any place would do this would be losing money for not. When I visit a restaurant I don't give a crap about the music playing, it's never music I like that's for sure, but who cares? The music is filler who even pays attention to it ? Bad analogy all together. Restaurants and games never make for good comparisons nor do cars.
As for Archeage and the topic in the conversation above, it is what it is, it's been a long time coming as has "what we want" Because constantly going on and on about what we don't want has taken us no where. Look at just about any active forum on this site. 70% (random figure for emphasis) of the threads with any activity are comprised of people trashing this or that game for not being this or that other game/sub-genre...It solves nothing especially when most of those games are still pulling in millions a month in many cases.That little factor, renders most of what you see going on on just about any forum moot.
The only way to send a clear message is to stop buying games or items in games clearly not intended for your taste.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Why not just have the courts issue the money back to the traders when the pirates are caught and give them time in jail. If the pirate dosent have the money on him then the courts should take assets to pay back those who have been robbed. The loss of items should be enough of a loss for pirates that it would equal out.
Originally posted by mcrippins Yet noone has mentioned how easy it is to actually escape from jail. Most criminals that go through the court system get 20-30 minutes in jail. Even if you were to get '13 hours' - you would most likely be there for half an hour tops. As people mentioned before - when you get pirated and lose your boat - it costs a lot to repair it. I believe it's around 13-15 gold. Which is significant. Pirates basically don't suffer at all.
Yeah but you're missing the part where the pirate having escaped from prison cannot use his abilities for the full duration of the sentence.... Nice easy meat outside the prison walls.....
Comments
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
Reading this - if you're weak enough and stupid enough to get ganked by a raid party - screw you... why not perma death loser
OK - risk-reward - if a pirate gets my stuff, they get it all but if they get caught, it's perma-death. Quid pro quo.
Whyspre
There is a reality - the pvp community ALWAYS cries about the carebears - ALWAYS and since they are vocal, the dev team pays them mind... and so the carebears start to leave [think casuals with lives] and the devs, responding to the decaying market, nerf the game, so the pvpers leave. Is there a balance point? LoTRO had the Moors... which was good, TSW has areas of contention which work. This game, coming from the same development tree, reminds me of Lineage and Aion...seems like the hidden message is - travel in a gang after 30 cause you're going to get ganked otherwise [hahaha]. And the quest theft issue, I agree, it's a cost to make the stuff, it's a bore moving it [Sarah Oakheart passed me three times when I was carrying iron] and the reward is a house that you pay 3 gold a week for [do I hear gold farmers heading this way - you better believe it].
So, end of the day. How would *I* characterize it? Disappointing.
It is a time sink and I don't have 6 hours a day to devote to it.
It is a grinder... oh you can stop the "kill ten rats" quests after a certain point and get partial credit or you can go 60% past and get "exceeds" credit or you can go way past and complete the secret quests but it's still grind
Toxic community - of course, that is a hallmark of pvp games. If you ask questions, you are either a carebear or noob, regardless, you are now a target. And this is in the alpha - the version that cost many players $150 to enter... what fun it will be as F2P.
Bottom line - I like games that I can play with my wife - this game is not it. Infantile chat bordering on and occasionally crossing into vile.
So in the words of the OP - I am taking my ball [yes, they got my $300 - sorry but that's not a lot compared to what I would have spent] and moving down the road. lol - back to Fusang....
This is not the mmo I am looking for....
Whyspre
People weren't upset over the patches or the game, that is just a front. People are/were upset over cheaters that could autokill and autoloot. Dig a little deeper the truth is out there "mostly deleted" and hopefully Trion is going to be on top of that before official launch over here, which signs point to not as alot of data for ArcheAge is saved user side.
Much bigger things to worry about than what you are talking about and people spending money on the game looking for a headtstart and a future investment might be in for a shock once this launches and realize the real reason people quit this game in Korea.
please don't dumb down or casualize the game until it becomes a themepark
no Trammel
no NGE
no safe modes and double nets
that is all
It should be something like this:
If they get caught (killed) their gear and ship get 'impounded' with heavy fine needed to get it back.
Maybe a little bit off topic, and i really don't want to go into the discussion about the OP.
But crafting and pvp is in a lot of games yin and yang and the one profits from the other.
- PvPers are not willingly to raid for gear.. or with other words they are dependend to be able to buy gear.
- PvPers(some) are usually content with item destruction, item decay or item loot.. all of that increases the demand of items
That means
- PvPers are the best customers of crafters
- PvP gameplay(item destruction, item loot, item decay) increases the demand for crafters and improves the gameplay from crafter.
In contrary to PvE players or specifically (Raiders)
- those are mostly not content with any form of item destruction, item decay or anything that their gear will be destroyed at one point or the other
- they don't like to buy stuff from crafters.. they expect to get all their gear from raids, and expect that raid gear is better than any crafted gear
With other words Crafters and PvPer do often synergize.. Raiders and Crafters, or Raiders and PvPers don't.
And it is not surprising that pvpers often do like to craft as pve activity, more often than killing some mobs or raids.
It is easier to armchair develop. But that is not even the issue here. They can develop the game to give more rewards to the ganker/griefer. Why can't they make it more challenging for that group? They talk all 'Risk/Reward' stuff...as long as it is someone else taking the risk while they reap the rewards.
And when it dies for lack of population, the gankers will claim something else killed it, like the grind or the graphics or the monetization. They'll never admit they killed it. Meanwhile, the ffa PvPers who actually play for reasons other than griefing will keep listening to the gankers and griping about how sad it is that everyone likes themeparks, never realizing that many of us prefer sandboxes or hybrids, but not if we have to put up with the gankers.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
The hardcore population claims since OBT(Korea, more than a 1 year ago) that it will die. And not because of the pvp, because there is not really a lot.. AA is rather safe so to speak. But because of the economy. No item decay/item destruction is just a no-go for any sandbox game.. another one would be that it may be more and more a themepark instead of a sandbox/park.
We will see what happens.. but to compare ArcheAge to Darkfall (pvp wise) is a joke..
- ArcheAge does have a lot of safe zones. Hell even Tradepack trading is possible with some safe zones spots. And can be avoided completely with daily grind quests.
- More or less no looting, expect Tradepacks... and that is just a minigame.
- No real penalty for dying.. or a very soft one.. so it doesn't matter when you die
So please don't pretend ArcheAge would be a hardcore pvp game.. because it is not.
Hardcore Spectrum
Darkfall > EvE > Lineage 2 >>> ArcheAge, somewhere between DAoC and WoW.
And yes.. ArcheAge is not FFA pvp.. not like Darkfall, EvE or Lineage 2.
I don't understand why people are comparing ArcheAge with full PvP games that have twitch based action combat and full loot.
ArcheAge is a nice blend of just the right risk vs reward systems for a good many people. People coming from several games such as WoW or Rift understand the honor points system as a motivation for PvP which is in AA.
Then there is the trade packs system which is another large motivation for everyone.
In my mind it's the perfect system and going full loot or more harsh penalties than the current jail systems and pirate/faction systems would be to much.
If you are correct, you just prove the point that when devs try to bring in all types of gamers with one server ruleset, they're making a huge mistake and will fail.
And most of my WOW characters are on a PvP server. So I know how annoying and time consuming the gankers can make things even when you lose nothing at all besides time.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
And just for the sake of sharing information.. because obviously not all people got how the pvp system looks, especially for players looking to avoid pvp.
Ok.. here a quick overview:
The world is separated in 3 continents + the open sea.
North Continent + Open Sea are always on PvP Zones. You can PK(kill your own faction) or PvP(kill one of the other factions)
The two south continents, are the two NPC Factions every player joins in the beginning.
Half of those south continents are complete safe zones. No PvP/PK whatsoever. And there are farming/housing spots,too. With other words a PvE only player never have tp leave them, never will risk to get attacked.
Now to the other half of both south continents. Those are PvP Zones, but with different States of PvP.
PvP Scale 1-5. PK possible PvP with other faction possible. PvP activity increases PvP scale from 1/5 to max. 5/5. If 5/5 is reaches it starts War Time Full Out War with bonus honor points for a certain time. As much as i know 30 min.. preparation. 1 hour War time. After that there is 2 hours peace time.
And now listen exactly all PvE Only players. In this 2 hours peace time there is no PvP/PK whatsoever in the PvP zones at the two south continents. And you can do unharmed whatever you want there.. Quests, Exploring, Whatever. After the 2 hours peace, it starts again with PvP Scale 1/5, and there may be some PK/PvP.
With other words.. you can do whatever you want(PvE activities) completely safe in ArcheAge as a PvE player... Just stay in the safe zones and just enter pvp zones at peace time. And some part of the coast(sea) is even part of the pve zones.. so you can even sail a bit.. just never enter the open sea. Although... you don't get instakilled, and you don't lose anything. You may have to repair your ship.. but that's about it.
If you want do trade runs(mini game, and you really don't have to do.. it is a pvp minigame.. not a pve activity), there are even some in safe areas with less profit.. so that even pve only player can try it out without risk.. on the other side it is not a lot of fun without any danger and pvp.
And the currency you can earn through Trade runs can also be earned from daily quests within a safe zone. With other words.. there is no need for trade runs for pve only players.
With other words.. ArcheAge already tries to please both.. pvp and pve only players. And there is really no reason for pve only players to cry me a river.
And therefore i said it is between DAoC and WoW. It is not that hard as WoW PvP, where you could be attacked everywhere, but don't lose anything. and DAoC, where you can only be attacked at certain areas, and lose nothing.
Just read my post above. ArcheAge will not die because of the absent of PvE players, or because they force PvP upon them(because they don't), but because of the economy or because it may become a themepark.. as long as they don't do anything against it.
Edit:
And another sidenote. There is no need for actual trading. There is a global AH for that.
Those trade runs are only a gimicky mini game. You have to craft, or buy from crafters specially made trading packs, those trading packs don't have any other purpose. Those player made trading packs can now be delivered to NPC merchants, and you get a tiny reward. Those trading packs are rather cheap, and crafter (pve only player) can make money for selling it. And for pvp players it is a nice little mini game to either deliver them, or to steal them from others. No other effect or purpose in it.. just a mini game.
Well at least it's free to play. Patient players who don't buy into the $150 now and don't buy into what open beta costs can wait to see if there will be room for large farms and houses in completely safe areas and whether playing in the safe areas is fun, as well as profitable enough to keep rent paid on the farms and houses.
From what I'm reading by alpha players, there is no room in safe areas for farms and houses at the moment. A great reason for every player who doesn't want to deal with gankers to hold on to their wallets and wait awhile.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Sometimes people don't pay their house/farm taxes, if they go unpaid for 2 weeks than the house is demolished creating new space. My guild members scout around checking homes to see if any are due for demolishing.
Just a tip.
Who does this? The only reason any place would do this would be losing money for not. When I visit a restaurant I don't give a crap about the music playing, it's never music I like that's for sure, but who cares? The music is filler who even pays attention to it ? Bad analogy all together. Restaurants and games never make for good comparisons nor do cars.
As for Archeage and the topic in the conversation above, it is what it is, it's been a long time coming as has "what we want" Because constantly going on and on about what we don't want has taken us no where. Look at just about any active forum on this site. 70% (random figure for emphasis) of the threads with any activity are comprised of people trashing this or that game for not being this or that other game/sub-genre...It solves nothing especially when most of those games are still pulling in millions a month in many cases.That little factor, renders most of what you see going on on just about any forum moot.
The only way to send a clear message is to stop buying games or items in games clearly not intended for your taste.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah but you're missing the part where the pirate having escaped from prison cannot use his abilities for the full duration of the sentence.... Nice easy meat outside the prison walls.....