I disagree with WoW being on the list. The end game these days is really all about raiding - an activity that usually requires organisation, teaming up, and commitment for a planned few hours. This is in no way 'casual'.
true but you dont have to do raiding
WOW is very casual friendly if you want to do pet battles at max level instead
or chase after cosmetic achievements instead of raiding
Maybe things have changed, but when I quit WoW several months ago, pet battles were being dominated by Murkalot - a very expensive 'I win' button.
I disagree with WoW being on the list. The end game these days is really all about raiding - an activity that usually requires organisation, teaming up, and commitment for a planned few hours. This is in no way 'casual'.
Leveling characters via questing is a casual activity, but since vanilla WoW, this is much less fun than it was. The emphasis of the game has moved away from leveling to raiding via nerfing strong class characteristics, easy leveling, flying mounts, and instant leveling to 80 etc.
Allow me to disagree. Since Wrath of the Lich King WoW has become a very casual friendly MMO, offering to these players plenty of stuff to do. It's one of the main reasons for the skyrocketing off the sub numbers. The only (i think) mmo giving casuals and solo players the means to experience all end game PvE content.
Actually, during WotLK the game peaked at 12 million subscribers and has since fallen to around 7 million. Before they made it as casual friendly, it actually had more subs.
Actually, WoW peaked not long after Cata was released.....oddly enough, the subs started dropping as soon as they tried to bring it back inline to the BC days during Cata.......ahh, i still remember all the crying on the forums about how hard the dungeons were, and have fond memories of seeing the term "wrath baby" spewed everywhere lol.
WoW's subs dropped after they removed the old talent trees.
It's just that it took quite a long time for people to realise that they were never going to attain the same heights of fun.
I disagree with WoW being on the list. The end game these days is really all about raiding - an activity that usually requires organisation, teaming up, and commitment for a planned few hours. This is in no way 'casual'.
Leveling characters via questing is a casual activity, but since vanilla WoW, this is much less fun than it was. The emphasis of the game has moved away from leveling to raiding via nerfing strong class characteristics, easy leveling, flying mounts, and instant leveling to 80 etc.
Allow me to disagree. Since Wrath of the Lich King WoW has become a very casual friendly MMO, offering to these players plenty of stuff to do. It's one of the main reasons for the skyrocketing off the sub numbers. The only (i think) mmo giving casuals and solo players the means to experience all end game PvE content.
Actually, during WotLK the game peaked at 12 million subscribers and has since fallen to around 7 million. Before they made it as casual friendly, it actually had more subs.
Actually, WoW peaked not long after Cata was released.....oddly enough, the subs started dropping as soon as they tried to bring it back inline to the BC days during Cata.......ahh, i still remember all the crying on the forums about how hard the dungeons were, and have fond memories of seeing the term "wrath baby" spewed everywhere lol.
WoW's subs dropped after they removed the old talent trees.
It's just that it took quite a long time for people to realise that they were never going to attain the same heights of fun.
Everyone has their own theory as to why WoW's subs started to drop back to BC levels. All I am saying is the drop didnt start to happen until well into Cata, not WotLK. WoW peaked while it was casual, and dropped as soon as they tried to bring it back in line with its more hardcore days. That may just be coincidental (an prob is), but its an absolute fact.
Everyone has their own theory as to why WoW's subs started to drop back to BC levels. All I am saying is the drop didnt start to happen until well into Cata, not WotLK. WoW peaked while it was casual, and dropped as soon as they tried to bring it back in line with its more hardcore days. That may just be coincidental (an prob is), but its an absolute fact.
probably are many reasons but i think it dropped due to the overuse of phasing and linear questing
Prior to Cata - leveling alts was fun for me (i leveled over 40 alts)
After Cata - I no longer enjoyed leveling alts in WOW
-- I did not change, the entire world of WOW changed (except BC and LK)
I disagree with WoW being on the list. The end game these days is really all about raiding - an activity that usually requires organisation, teaming up, and commitment for a planned few hours. This is in no way 'casual'.
Leveling characters via questing is a casual activity, but since vanilla WoW, this is much less fun than it was. The emphasis of the game has moved away from leveling to raiding via nerfing strong class characteristics, easy leveling, flying mounts, and instant leveling to 80 etc.
Allow me to disagree. Since Wrath of the Lich King WoW has become a very casual friendly MMO, offering to these players plenty of stuff to do. It's one of the main reasons for the skyrocketing off the sub numbers. The only (i think) mmo giving casuals and solo players the means to experience all end game PvE content.
Actually, during WotLK the game peaked at 12 million subscribers and has since fallen to around 7 million. Before they made it as casual friendly, it actually had more subs.
Actually, WoW peaked not long after Cata was released.....oddly enough, the subs started dropping as soon as they tried to bring it back inline to the BC days during Cata.......ahh, i still remember all the crying on the forums about how hard the dungeons were, and have fond memories of seeing the term "wrath baby" spewed everywhere lol.
WoW's subs dropped after they removed the old talent trees.
It's just that it took quite a long time for people to realise that they were never going to attain the same heights of fun.
Everyone has their own theory as to why WoW's subs started to drop back to BC levels. All I am saying is the drop didnt start to happen until well into Cata, not WotLK. WoW peaked while it was casual, and dropped as soon as they tried to bring it back in line with its more hardcore days. That may just be coincidental (an prob is), but its an absolute fact.
So everyone has their own theory but yours is absolute fact? If that was the case subs would be going up since now it's a very casual game with LFR. It's decline had more to do with competition then being too hardcore. As is the case today. Now I'm not going to be arrogant or naive and say that's absolute fact but it's a pretty good theory.
Everyone has their own theory as to why WoW's subs started to drop back to BC levels. All I am saying is the drop didnt start to happen until well into Cata, not WotLK. WoW peaked while it was casual, and dropped as soon as they tried to bring it back in line with its more hardcore days. That may just be coincidental (an prob is), but its an absolute fact.
probably are many reasons but i think it dropped due to the overuse of phasing and linear questing
Prior to Cata - leveling alts was fun for me (i leveled over 40 alts)
After Cata - I no longer enjoyed leveling alts in WOW
-- I did not change, the entire world of WOW changed (except BC and LK)
I personally think the biggest and most overlooked reason is the plethora of alternate options avaiable since 2011 (when the sub started dropping). Prior to 2011, your AAA themepark MMO option were very limited.
Everyone has their own theory as to why WoW's subs started to drop back to BC levels. All I am saying is the drop didnt start to happen until well into Cata, not WotLK. WoW peaked while it was casual, and dropped as soon as they tried to bring it back in line with its more hardcore days. That may just be coincidental (an prob is), but its an absolute fact.
probably are many reasons but i think it dropped due to the overuse of phasing and linear questing
Prior to Cata - leveling alts was fun for me (i leveled over 40 alts)
After Cata - I no longer enjoyed leveling alts in WOW
-- I did not change, the entire world of WOW changed (except BC and LK)
I personally think the biggest and most overlooked reason is the plethora of alternate options avaiable since 2011 (when the sub started dropping). Prior to 2011, your AAA themepark MMO option were very limited.
True. Competition from other games which are just as fun such as Rift, SWToR, now WildStar, etc. Has saturated their market and given the themepark player's more options, and a lot of those options are F2P. Rift remains the best F2P system I have seen in existence allowing you to play the entire game for free. I still play from time to time and raid without any need to pay a dime.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
I disagree with WoW being on the list. The end game these days is really all about raiding - an activity that usually requires organisation, teaming up, and commitment for a planned few hours. This is in no way 'casual'.
Leveling characters via questing is a casual activity, but since vanilla WoW, this is much less fun than it was. The emphasis of the game has moved away from leveling to raiding via nerfing strong class characteristics, easy leveling, flying mounts, and instant leveling to 80 etc.
Allow me to disagree. Since Wrath of the Lich King WoW has become a very casual friendly MMO, offering to these players plenty of stuff to do. It's one of the main reasons for the skyrocketing off the sub numbers. The only (i think) mmo giving casuals and solo players the means to experience all end game PvE content.
Actually, during WotLK the game peaked at 12 million subscribers and has since fallen to around 7 million. Before they made it as casual friendly, it actually had more subs.
Actually, WoW peaked not long after Cata was released.....oddly enough, the subs started dropping as soon as they tried to bring it back inline to the BC days during Cata.......ahh, i still remember all the crying on the forums about how hard the dungeons were, and have fond memories of seeing the term "wrath baby" spewed everywhere lol.
WoW's subs dropped after they removed the old talent trees.
It's just that it took quite a long time for people to realise that they were never going to attain the same heights of fun.
Everyone has their own theory as to why WoW's subs started to drop back to BC levels. All I am saying is the drop didnt start to happen until well into Cata, not WotLK. WoW peaked while it was casual, and dropped as soon as they tried to bring it back in line with its more hardcore days. That may just be coincidental (an prob is), but its an absolute fact.
So everyone has their own theory but yours is absolute fact? If that was the case subs would be going up since now it's a very casual game with LFR. It's decline had more to do with competition then being too hardcore. As is the case today. Now I'm not going to be arrogant or naive and say that's absolute fact but it's a pretty good theory.
I gave a timeframe, not a reason. My timeframe is fact....subs did not start dropping until Cata, and expansion that tried to bring WoW back to its more hardcore BC roots. I mean, I even said that the timeline was prob a coincidence, therefore was not my "reason" for the dropped subs. If you would like to know my opinion as to why its subs started to drop, kindly refer to my last post. Thank you...
I disagree with WoW being on the list. The end game these days is really all about raiding - an activity that usually requires organisation, teaming up, and commitment for a planned few hours. This is in no way 'casual'.
true but you dont have to do raiding
WOW is very casual friendly if you want to do pet battles at max level instead
or chase after cosmetic achievements instead of raiding
10-15 hours a month? You realize that only a half hour a day right? I think your idea of a casual player may be is way off. Not surprising though. Seeing how bad a rep casual players have wrongly gotten. Even in my most casual times I'd play at least an hour a night. Sub games included.
Originally posted by NDC19 Guild Wars 2's catering to casual players has pretty much made it one of the biggest flops ever.
Guild Wars 2 was not a flop.
It was commercially successful and praised with critical acclaim. The huge playerbase didn't stay, but that's the case with any MMORPG released today.
The only problem with that line of thought is that means SWToR was a success too. Which...It clearly wasn't. Sure, they have figured out how to milk people through a cash shop, but the game was critically acclaimed and also flopped very hard. The hardest to date.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
You included it because "any list of top MMOs must have WoW in it"?
...
WoW IS casual as well as hardcore, it offers both categories plenty of content. In fact the big majority of it's subs comes from the casual folk. The hardcore players both in PvE and PvP are less than 10% of the population.
SWTOR cost between 6 - 10x as much to produce and promote as GW2 (estimates) so yeah its going to be judged on a different standard. A Mazda 3 is a nice car. Its not as nice as Mercedes S class so they get judged by different standards get over it SWTOR fans.
GW2 is an excellent game. Sure I don't like some of their compromises (no Holy Trinity) is the my least favorite one - but it does kind of work. Look at the healing in Wildstar - you are expected to heal through bad - it kinda sucks to be a healer in that game. None of that shit in GW2 - guys who suck just DIE.
I wouldnt be suprised if one day we wake up and the mmorpg genre is so broken up into casual formats that have only one feature to them. Such as a game where you only run dungeons, a game where you only run raids, or a game where you only do short storylines. As we evolve and more and more game makers try to squeeze in for thier cut of the pie, the games will be sliced up like a pizza pie!
I completely agree with mabinogi being on this list! One of the best MMO's I have played in a long time. The only downside is the long wait between 3 weeks to rebirth for more leveling (if you don't pay for rebirths)
I disagree with WoW being on the list. The end game these days is really all about raiding - an activity that usually requires organisation, teaming up, and commitment for a planned few hours. This is in no way 'casual'.
Leveling characters via questing is a casual activity, but since vanilla WoW, this is much less fun than it was. The emphasis of the game has moved away from leveling to raiding via nerfing strong class characteristics, easy leveling, flying mounts, and instant leveling to 80 etc.
Allow me to disagree. Since Wrath of the Lich King WoW has become a very casual friendly MMO, offering to these players plenty of stuff to do. It's one of the main reasons for the skyrocketing off the sub numbers. The only (i think) mmo giving casuals and solo players the means to experience all end game PvE content.
Actually, during WotLK the game peaked at 12 million subscribers and has since fallen to around 7 million. Before they made it as casual friendly, it actually had more subs.
Assumption based on complete nonsense. WoW lost its subs because quite simply people got bored and around WotLK is the start of viable MMO alternatives when before WoW pretty much had a monopoly.
Someone can easily counter that WoW kept the subs they kept because of the casual friendliness.
Comments
Maybe things have changed, but when I quit WoW several months ago, pet battles were being dominated by Murkalot - a very expensive 'I win' button.
WoW's subs dropped after they removed the old talent trees.
It's just that it took quite a long time for people to realise that they were never going to attain the same heights of fun.
Eve is the most hardcore game in existence because the end game involves keeping up relationships with people AND doing stuff with them.
Perhaps you haven't got to the end game yet. It takes a long time to get the skill points.
Everyone has their own theory as to why WoW's subs started to drop back to BC levels. All I am saying is the drop didnt start to happen until well into Cata, not WotLK. WoW peaked while it was casual, and dropped as soon as they tried to bring it back in line with its more hardcore days. That may just be coincidental (an prob is), but its an absolute fact.
probably are many reasons but i think it dropped due to the overuse of phasing and linear questing
Prior to Cata - leveling alts was fun for me (i leveled over 40 alts)
After Cata - I no longer enjoyed leveling alts in WOW
-- I did not change, the entire world of WOW changed (except BC and LK)
EQ2 fan sites
So everyone has their own theory but yours is absolute fact? If that was the case subs would be going up since now it's a very casual game with LFR. It's decline had more to do with competition then being too hardcore. As is the case today. Now I'm not going to be arrogant or naive and say that's absolute fact but it's a pretty good theory.
I personally think the biggest and most overlooked reason is the plethora of alternate options avaiable since 2011 (when the sub started dropping). Prior to 2011, your AAA themepark MMO option were very limited.
True. Competition from other games which are just as fun such as Rift, SWToR, now WildStar, etc. Has saturated their market and given the themepark player's more options, and a lot of those options are F2P. Rift remains the best F2P system I have seen in existence allowing you to play the entire game for free. I still play from time to time and raid without any need to pay a dime.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
I gave a timeframe, not a reason. My timeframe is fact....subs did not start dropping until Cata, and expansion that tried to bring WoW back to its more hardcore BC roots. I mean, I even said that the timeline was prob a coincidence, therefore was not my "reason" for the dropped subs. If you would like to know my opinion as to why its subs started to drop, kindly refer to my last post. Thank you...
Yes you do
10-15 hours a month? You realize that only a half hour a day right? I think your idea of a casual player may be is way off. Not surprising though. Seeing how bad a rep casual players have wrongly gotten. Even in my most casual times I'd play at least an hour a night. Sub games included.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
WoW is not a casual MMO...
You included it because "any list of top MMOs must have WoW in it"?
...
Guild Wars 2 was not a flop.
It was commercially successful and praised with critical acclaim. The huge playerbase didn't stay, but that's the case with any MMORPG released today.
The only problem with that line of thought is that means SWToR was a success too. Which...It clearly wasn't. Sure, they have figured out how to milk people through a cash shop, but the game was critically acclaimed and also flopped very hard. The hardest to date.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
WoW IS casual as well as hardcore, it offers both categories plenty of content. In fact the big majority of it's subs comes from the casual folk. The hardcore players both in PvE and PvP are less than 10% of the population.
SWTOR cost between 6 - 10x as much to produce and promote as GW2 (estimates) so yeah its going to be judged on a different standard. A Mazda 3 is a nice car. Its not as nice as Mercedes S class so they get judged by different standards get over it SWTOR fans.
GW2 is an excellent game. Sure I don't like some of their compromises (no Holy Trinity) is the my least favorite one - but it does kind of work. Look at the healing in Wildstar - you are expected to heal through bad - it kinda sucks to be a healer in that game. None of that shit in GW2 - guys who suck just DIE.
Unfortunately I need to agree. This game could be so much more, if not for the "all casual" obsession that Anet seems to have. Real shame
Salem is the most hardcore game in existence...
It's the only game that makes Darkfall look completely carebare but i'll agree with EvE's end game factor not being for casuals.
Replace Mabinogi with Wizard 101 and WoW with Sherwood Dungeon and the list is close to perfect.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
playing since 2005 and EVE is very casual friendly mmo,higher SP number are only numbers ,it depending for what you spend skill train
there are not much difference between main char old 9 years or an alt old 6 months,both doing their role perfect
Assumption based on complete nonsense. WoW lost its subs because quite simply people got bored and around WotLK is the start of viable MMO alternatives when before WoW pretty much had a monopoly.
Someone can easily counter that WoW kept the subs they kept because of the casual friendliness.