Dungeons: Requires a full pre-made that runs the optional objectives at a fast pace. Not viable for most of the players.
Grinding: Viable but questing is basically grinding so no real point in it.
Conclusion: Questing solo/duo is by far the most effiecient way to level.
I just reached lv40 today and I'm bored out of my mind. Only 10 levels of teeth grinding left...
ESO got a bad reputation for questing being the only way to progress and the same is happening here. I hope they fix that issue.
ESO has vet levels, which, thank goodness, Wildstar has nothing similar to this. And Wildstar at least has Open world pvp to make it more interesting. Right now, if ESO is a 6, WS is a 7.5 with both games having potential to be much greater.
I only bring this up, because I made the decision to continue with WS and drop ESO, for now.
Wise decision
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
OP I know those are your opinions and you are entitled to them, but here is my opinion...You are a lazy fuck and you shouldn't play more casual mmo's. I hear Hello Kitty has one that should be easy enough for you.
Wildstar launched with so much to do. If you don't like to quest you can pvp. And the dungeons/adventures are great the way they are. You are suppose to wipe, its hard, but very rewarding when you finally make it through. Also dropping the holy trinity sounds like something a dps main would say. You want better que times then role a healer or a tank. All of your reasons for leaving really just makes me think that you didn't even try to play this game. It was too hard and you bailed, and am now looking for validation for being a pussy. Like I said hello kitty island adventure sounds like your dream game
This is not a real action game. Its an MMORPG with action stuff put on top. When you do the math about how much damage you take from unavoidable, un-telegraphed "auto-attacks" you realize the game is every bit as gear dependent as and not skill-dependent as many of these other games.
This game is not like TERA and a good warrior solo-ing a BAM. The telegraph system adds some interesting input into positioning for a 3d real time game. But its not a skill-based system like a Dark Souls game where you can kill stuff naked if you really really good with immunity frames.
In Wildstar you are required to take damage. The only question is can you out-heal or out kill what you are fighting. Sometimes the getting hit by telegraphs matters in that equation. Sometimes you might as well face tank something and kill it as fast possible and not waste time moving instead of putting out damage, because the white damage is too high.
They do a pretty good job of faking it. You don't realize it until later. But it all mostly a shell game. The telegraphs are still fairly interesting. It allows for some very novel and less predictable AoE shapes.
3. Combat: Not much they can change here, but I have come to realize I prefer free aiming such as used with TERA and ESO to the telegraph system. I actually think Tab Target could work in this game, though I am sure it won't happen. In PvP I often feel like I want to tab target a player and get into a pure ability war with them rather then this jumping around, left/right aiming war.
This part makes no sense.
with Wildstar and TERA having NEARLY identical play styles with their combat.
ESO is literally a 'smart target' tab target game, like Age of Conan or Star Trek online before it.
So I'm very confused... or maybe you are? You say you prefer free aiming, like TERA (and this game) then you say you wish this game had tab targeting? Like ESO...
Yeah, very confusing.
Having played both TERA and Wildstar, the only identicality in combat is no tab target. Everything else is like day and night if I had to describe how combat feels and plays from one to another. Basicaly TERA requires you to think strategicaly due to movement limitations while executing most skills which are very very easy to miss and very punishing if executed at wrong time.
In WIldstar you just need to move non stop and spamm rotations while there's no chance in hell to miss all those aoe cones.
This isnt a WoW expansion to get past lvl's through dungeon runs.
Anyway this is indeed a game with increased difficulty in every aspect of it, accept it or dont' play it. It was known from beta and you ll find it even more difficult when you are going to raid or do max lvl content. Just dont ask for nerfs pls. There are many "nerfed" games in the market already, let this one be a bit challenging.
Btw you can lvl up with PvP if you want.
I hear you, trust me, i am taking a break on this game.
I play these types of games for fun PvE and I challenge myself with PvP... and enjoy pugging. I don't really do Guild runs and the like, which Is what this game demands. I really wanted to like this game, but there is no place for me here it seems. I thought about just PvPing, but there are other games where I enjoy the PvP aspect a bit more. I wanted to like WS for the whole package, but they are not catering to me, so I shall leave. I hope it changes, you hope it stays, and we will see which one pans out.
After reading this thread again I had to come back to this statement I want to PUG it. Well this is not a pug friendly game nor should it be. Dungeons are something you should do with friends or guild members that talk to each other. How many times have people joined pug and no one will say anything other than to throw blame when something goes wrong. They wanted to make a game that was difficult it was in there mission statement basically. The only thing that was stated in the whole argument is maybe make sure at least one loot item drops for each person, so better looting, but keep it to one item guarantee no more.
Adventures are pug friendly so there is that. They are scaled down to make them easier.
This in not a solo players game, I love solo play but not everything should, nor everyone be able to solo everything. That is all nerfing does is make something more mind numbing. Enjoy the challenge as you probably want see it in the future of theme park games.
WildStar as a sub MMO isn't going to last, and the reasons are extremely simple. Some are in denial, some are fanboys, whatever it doesnt matter but heres the short version of facts IMO
Its a WoW clone. The questing is god awful at best. It's just a mind numbing "go collect X and go turn on that" quest hub grind.
The dungeons are harder and so are the raids, but other then turning up the NPC's dmg and health to make it twice as hard there is zero innovation in game.
The PVP is good, but its not good enough to save this game.
IF anyone cares to disagree i point to RIFT. The last WoW clone Raiding endgame MMO. It had ALOT more going for it then WS did with dynamic events, zone invasions and world invasions and raids that were actually quite hard (I still have nighmares about Infernal Dawn) and they put out MORE CONTENT then any MMO in history to date, and that still couldn't save it going Fail to play.
My personal take on Wildstar issues, so don't get offended (you probably will) but here we go.
I have played many many MMOs as I am sure we all have here, so I hope my opinions will have some merit and hopefully some will be implemented by Carbine.
1. Quests, there was a post recently about cutscenes, I think that is a great Idea and this game needs more of them. People mentioned that they "take you out of the world", correct they do, but due to hardly any voice-acting or any sort of Skyrim-Esque npc interaction, I think this game could do well with cutscenes, much the way FFXIV does them.
Not enough "public events" either. Rift still holds the crown in terms of bringing the people in a zone together for a common cause, and I think other games could learn something from that. Truly what better way to make the world come alive and become "massively multiplayer"
2. Dungeons: Nerf them OR make them more rewarding. Personally I would like to see them nerfed, maybe 75-80% of the current difficulty. BUT give people more rewards for performing better such as finishing under a certain time, no deaths, no wipes, etc. Make the rewards better for groups who succeed, but don't make it impossible for casuals or first timers. Save that kind of difficulty for endgame (where all of the elitist/hardcore people will make it to eventually anyway). Right now they are just scaring people off, including myself. If they got rid of the Trinity system , that would be another idea. I wouldn't mind tackling a dungeon in the current difficulty for 1-2 hours if I thought we could easily replace people who leave group.
3. Combat: Not much they can change here, but I have come to realize I prefer free aiming such as used with TERA and ESO to the telegraph system. I actually think Tab Target could work in this game, though I am sure it won't happen. In PvP I often feel like I want to tab target a player and get into a pure ability war with them rather then this jumping around, left/right aiming war.
4. PvP is fun, no real issues here. I wanted to try warplots but I doubt I will make it that far.
5. Leveling Options: It all comes back to Questing. You can PvP to level but this slows down later in the game, and also you do need to do your path missions which require quests. Dungeons are not a viable way to level currently which is a shame. I loved leveling Alts in WoW just by pure dungeon running, I wish WS was the same. Big turnoff here for me.
6. Graphics/Optimization: I like the Cartoon art style, although I didn't think I would. I think the game needs to run better, but not a gamebreaker by any means. Telegraphs are ugly though, and I find myself looking at the ground more often then I would like and the floor is filled with telegraphs much of the time.
7. Housing: its cool, I wish it wasn't semi-required though. Housing is never a selling point for me on any MMO.
8 Crafting, I don't do it, so I can't comment.
That is my review/commentary. I hope this game survives, but I personally won't play unless a few of these are changed. I think the game is a great start, but I worry about its lasting power.
Do you know what, class act for stating straight away by confirming this is your opinion rather than trying to spout things off as fact. Consumers need as much knowledge as possible before deciding on a purchase and although our opinions differ (as I am still very much enjoying myself) It was decent of you not to steer this is troll-ville.
As such, I would like to remark on the things you said, as this is indeed a forum for discussion.
1) I feel personally cut-scenes are fine and they do work well in Wildstar, a lot of people do complain about immersion, I offen find that these are the same type of people that skip reading quest details. But hey, that's what they choose to moan about. Fun thing about the cutscenes is that you can skip out of them, if you do you will see the events of the cutscene take place real time rather than a cinema view-point. So, skip if you wish, the cinematography is to bring you into the world, not take you out.
2) Dungeons do not need nerfing, by god no. The dungeons are the most fun I have had in an MMO for the longest of times. The difficulty when I first went in was refreshing and defeating a boss was it's own reward. As such, the rewards on offer are typical dungeon loot, gear pieces mostly. However uniques do drop, from the first dungeon I got myself an epic quality statue for my home. So, the incentive is there for people depending on what your flavour is.
I would also say the difficulty is fine for casuals or first timers, i think the issue here is your communication. I work full-time, I seldom get much time to play these days. Due to my play time alone I am deemed a casual these days. But, guess what I did the dungeon a couple of times, fumbled our way through it. Had a blast. I then added them to my friends and now I have fun people to play with to do the content. The trouble really in place here is not difficulty in a traditional sense, but difficulty with breaking people out of their agrophobic shell they have donned since WoW became a more casual friendly game.
Answer being, dungeons are hard. They are meant to be. They are meant to make you feel like you are playing a computer game. Like all video games (as they should be) playing with other people means you speak to them, form relationships and bonds to groom your way to success and lasting companionship. If you can't communicate, if you can't make friends, if you just want to play the game all alone and use other players as NPC's to gratify your own drives, then, MMO's aren't for you. This is not directed just to OP, but to anyone who falls into that category.
3) This is more an opinion than any real guidance to others. Wildstar is its own game, do not be disillusioned the game has made itself abundantly clear how its combat works, its featured heavily in all their videos. But their system is different to others. IT is more frantic, but also has a level of complexity and skill to it as you climb the ladder. You might prefer traditional MMO combat, this... is something different and although in your opinion you do not like it, does not make it a bad system. I'm enjoying it a lot as are many others.
4) Oddly just did my first PvP match today, had to capture masks. I had more fun than I thought I would, not being a PvP centric player. I think its because it felt like I had more control, that a person wasn't just able to hit me because they were in range and had me targetted.
5) You make an obscene amount of experience in a dungeon, they are viable. I assume you say they aren't because of the difficulty you mentioned earlier. Yes, if they take you a long time to complete then they wouldn't be. But if you make friends, play with others who know what to do or even help coach someone new then you make out like a bandit in dungeons. You have other ways to level, PvP like you say, the questing is varied also. I am not sure as to what others ways you are looking to level. Its an MMO its going to have the usual tropes in place.
6) Do you know what its like when you watch a sub-titled movie, you read the sub-titles but after a while your brain absorbs the information whilst you are watching it? Thats how Telegraphs are. I think its an alien concept for you, hooked on the tradition MMO mechanics you prior enjoyed. That is fine, but it doesn't put this game at fault because of them.
7) Actually Housing IS a selling point for games, people do tend to play MMO's that have housing in place. Its why people flocked back to RIFT its the reason Final Fantasy 14 up-coming private housing is anticipated. Housing is not required, not sure what you mean there. It provides conveinance to some and a whole another level of personal customization and dedication for others. Its a win/ win deal for all.
8) Crafting is fun, indepth, met with its own talent tree and unlockables. It is a great addition to the game. I am a dedicated crafter, I love gathering and crafting and the systems in place, allowing you to tweak stats and get intimate with the items you make is fantastic. As is the salvage system.
Anyhow, like I said our opinions differ, I am also quite tired so lots of spelling/grammar mistakes. I do hope you change your mind in the future and come back to the game. Part of me feels like you are trying to play the game in a way you want but getting annoyed you can't rather than trying to accept and play the game as intended. It is filled with depth and you just need to get there.
OP I know those are your opinions and you are entitled to them, but here is my opinion...You are a lazy fuck and you shouldn't play more casual mmo's. I hear Hello Kitty has one that should be easy enough for you.
Wildstar launched with so much to do. If you don't like to quest you can pvp. And the dungeons/adventures are great the way they are. You are suppose to wipe, its hard, but very rewarding when you finally make it through. Also dropping the holy trinity sounds like something a dps main would say. You want better que times then role a healer or a tank. All of your reasons for leaving really just makes me think that you didn't even try to play this game. It was too hard and you bailed, and am now looking for validation for being a pussy. Like I said hello kitty island adventure sounds like your dream game
Hahahah, what an ass.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
My personal take on Wildstar issues, so don't get offended (you probably will) but here we go.
I have played many many MMOs as I am sure we all have here, so I hope my opinions will have some merit and hopefully some will be implemented by Carbine.
1. Quests, there was a post recently about cutscenes, I think that is a great Idea and this game needs more of them. People mentioned that they "take you out of the world", correct they do, but due to hardly any voice-acting or any sort of Skyrim-Esque npc interaction, I think this game could do well with cutscenes, much the way FFXIV does them.
Not enough "public events" either. Rift still holds the crown in terms of bringing the people in a zone together for a common cause, and I think other games could learn something from that. Truly what better way to make the world come alive and become "massively multiplayer"
2. Dungeons: Nerf them OR make them more rewarding. Personally I would like to see them nerfed, maybe 75-80% of the current difficulty. BUT give people more rewards for performing better such as finishing under a certain time, no deaths, no wipes, etc. Make the rewards better for groups who succeed, but don't make it impossible for casuals or first timers. Save that kind of difficulty for endgame (where all of the elitist/hardcore people will make it to eventually anyway). Right now they are just scaring people off, including myself. If they got rid of the Trinity system , that would be another idea. I wouldn't mind tackling a dungeon in the current difficulty for 1-2 hours if I thought we could easily replace people who leave group.
3. Combat: Not much they can change here, but I have come to realize I prefer free aiming such as used with TERA and ESO to the telegraph system. I actually think Tab Target could work in this game, though I am sure it won't happen. In PvP I often feel like I want to tab target a player and get into a pure ability war with them rather then this jumping around, left/right aiming war.
4. PvP is fun, no real issues here. I wanted to try warplots but I doubt I will make it that far.
5. Leveling Options: It all comes back to Questing. You can PvP to level but this slows down later in the game, and also you do need to do your path missions which require quests. Dungeons are not a viable way to level currently which is a shame. I loved leveling Alts in WoW just by pure dungeon running, I wish WS was the same. Big turnoff here for me.
6. Graphics/Optimization: I like the Cartoon art style, although I didn't think I would. I think the game needs to run better, but not a gamebreaker by any means. Telegraphs are ugly though, and I find myself looking at the ground more often then I would like and the floor is filled with telegraphs much of the time.
7. Housing: its cool, I wish it wasn't semi-required though. Housing is never a selling point for me on any MMO.
8 Crafting, I don't do it, so I can't comment.
That is my review/commentary. I hope this game survives, but I personally won't play unless a few of these are changed. I think the game is a great start, but I worry about its lasting power.
Do you know what, class act for stating straight away by confirming this is your opinion rather than trying to spout things off as fact. Consumers need as much knowledge as possible before deciding on a purchase and although our opinions differ (as I am still very much enjoying myself) It was decent of you not to steer this is troll-ville.
As such, I would like to remark on the things you said, as this is indeed a forum for discussion.
1) I feel personally cut-scenes are fine and they do work well in Wildstar, a lot of people do complain about immersion, I offen find that these are the same type of people that skip reading quest details. But hey, that's what they choose to moan about. Fun thing about the cutscenes is that you can skip out of them, if you do you will see the events of the cutscene take place real time rather than a cinema view-point. So, skip if you wish, the cinematography is to bring you into the world, not take you out.
2) Dungeons do not need nerfing, by god no. The dungeons are the most fun I have had in an MMO for the longest of times. The difficulty when I first went in was refreshing and defeating a boss was it's own reward. As such, the rewards on offer are typical dungeon loot, gear pieces mostly. However uniques do drop, from the first dungeon I got myself an epic quality statue for my home. So, the incentive is there for people depending on what your flavour is.
I would also say the difficulty is fine for casuals or first timers, i think the issue here is your communication. I work full-time, I seldom get much time to play these days. Due to my play time alone I am deemed a casual these days. But, guess what I did the dungeon a couple of times, fumbled our way through it. Had a blast. I then added them to my friends and now I have fun people to play with to do the content. The trouble really in place here is not difficulty in a traditional sense, but difficulty with breaking people out of their agrophobic shell they have donned since WoW became a more casual friendly game.
Answer being, dungeons are hard. They are meant to be. They are meant to make you feel like you are playing a computer game. Like all video games (as they should be) playing with other people means you speak to them, form relationships and bonds to groom your way to success and lasting companionship. If you can't communicate, if you can't make friends, if you just want to play the game all alone and use other players as NPC's to gratify your own drives, then, MMO's aren't for you. This is not directed just to OP, but to anyone who falls into that category.
3) This is more an opinion than any real guidance to others. Wildstar is its own game, do not be disillusioned the game has made itself abundantly clear how its combat works, its featured heavily in all their videos. But their system is different to others. IT is more frantic, but also has a level of complexity and skill to it as you climb the ladder. You might prefer traditional MMO combat, this... is something different and although in your opinion you do not like it, does not make it a bad system. I'm enjoying it a lot as are many others.
4) Oddly just did my first PvP match today, had to capture masks. I had more fun than I thought I would, not being a PvP centric player. I think its because it felt like I had more control, that a person wasn't just able to hit me because they were in range and had me targetted.
5) You make an obscene amount of experience in a dungeon, they are viable. I assume you say they aren't because of the difficulty you mentioned earlier. Yes, if they take you a long time to complete then they wouldn't be. But if you make friends, play with others who know what to do or even help coach someone new then you make out like a bandit in dungeons. You have other ways to level, PvP like you say, the questing is varied also. I am not sure as to what others ways you are looking to level. Its an MMO its going to have the usual tropes in place.
6) Do you know what its like when you watch a sub-titled movie, you read the sub-titles but after a while your brain absorbs the information whilst you are watching it? Thats how Telegraphs are. I think its an alien concept for you, hooked on the tradition MMO mechanics you prior enjoyed. That is fine, but it doesn't put this game at fault because of them.
7) Actually Housing IS a selling point for games, people do tend to play MMO's that have housing in place. Its why people flocked back to RIFT its the reason Final Fantasy 14 up-coming private housing is anticipated. Housing is not required, not sure what you mean there. It provides conveinance to some and a whole another level of personal customization and dedication for others. Its a win/ win deal for all.
8) Crafting is fun, indepth, met with its own talent tree and unlockables. It is a great addition to the game. I am a dedicated crafter, I love gathering and crafting and the systems in place, allowing you to tweak stats and get intimate with the items you make is fantastic. As is the salvage system.
Anyhow, like I said our opinions differ, I am also quite tired so lots of spelling/grammar mistakes. I do hope you change your mind in the future and come back to the game. Part of me feels like you are trying to play the game in a way you want but getting annoyed you can't rather than trying to accept and play the game as intended. It is filled with depth and you just need to get there.
Still playing and riding out my 30 days! I am not a very social person in-game, but I like the idea of MMOs, I guess I like feeling apart of an online world, but my persona is sort of lone-ranger. I do enjoy getting to max as quick as possible on my first character in these themeparks, as I work full time as well and can't commit much time to them, which is why I prefer dungeon leveling.
That being said, you're right, I am trying to make this game work for me, instead of working at the game so to speak. But I do have to decide on paying a $15 sub.. if it was free and I could hop on at any time, I would definitely be less critical.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I believe you are on a 7 day trial as on another thread you say world bosses that need 20 people are soloable. I doubt you bought the game or will play it as a subscriber as evidenced by the sentence above my post.
3. Combat: Not much they can change here, but I have come to realize I prefer free aiming such as used with TERA and ESO to the telegraph system. I actually think Tab Target could work in this game, though I am sure it won't happen. In PvP I often feel like I want to tab target a player and get into a pure ability war with them rather then this jumping around, left/right aiming war.
This part makes no sense.
with Wildstar and TERA having NEARLY identical play styles with their combat.
ESO is literally a 'smart target' tab target game, like Age of Conan or Star Trek online before it.
So I'm very confused... or maybe you are? You say you prefer free aiming, like TERA (and this game) then you say you wish this game had tab targeting? Like ESO...
Yeah, very confusing.
Having played both TERA and Wildstar, the only identicality in combat is no tab target. Everything else is like day and night if I had to describe how combat feels and plays from one to another. Basicaly TERA requires you to think strategicaly due to movement limitations while executing most skills which are very very easy to miss and very punishing if executed at wrong time.
In WIldstar you just need to move non stop and spamm rotations while there's no chance in hell to miss all those aoe cones.
I'd say the confusion's on you.
Actually moving non-stop is really not much use. This is part of the "fake action" nature of the game.
The "dash" move is the not the same as a dodge of typical action game. It's just a way to quickly cover ground. Moving around, for example circle strafing, can make a telegraph sometimes easier to get out of.
BUT and this is a big "but", a) you can never avoid the significant amount of auto damage via moving unless you are range kiting and the auto-attack is melee and b) you really are better served to NOT move and concentrate on the telegraph so you can dodge immmediately.
Also their telegraph detection is not that great and I suspect when you stand still the visual cues are more accurate.
Finally at least one class, esper, is actively encouraged to be immobile.
This is part of the fakeness of the system. People used to PvP and typical action games initially fall into the idea that constant movement is a good thing, at the very least slightly beneficial on telegraph angles.
In point of fact it doesn't matter at all. You merely need to react to the telegraph. And you will never avoid a large portion of damage without a fairly significant amount of CC and ranged kiting.
There is no real melee avoidance without stacking stats for deflect. In medium range (melee classes and medic). You might as well actually stand still easily 50% of the time. Sadly there is nothing tactical to these standstill moments like there are in TERA.
Basically in TERA every attack was avoidable and only very particular extremely cheesy mobs had guaranteed damage. In Wildstar all mobs have guaranteed to be unavoidable by skill damage and some of them have significant amount of it.
The auto-attack on a 5-man mob can hit for well over 1000hp at level 20 this will kill you in something like 10 hits depending on class. Many BAM in TERA can be completely flawlessly killed if you are extremely skilled/lucky. Of course you almost always make mistakes in TERA, so that doesn't really happen, I am merely pointing out what is possible not plausible.
In TERA you are also constantly moving when not in the throes of an attack or defense animation. This movement is of key importance for guiding the BAM to a position or setting yourself up for you next attack or to avoid an possible special move. This is not true really in Wildstar although you are initially inclined to believe it is.
The telegraph system is nice in that it adds another dimension to things in that not only do you need to "get out of the AoE" but it forces you to get out of the AoE IN A PARTICULAR WAY. So dashing back is the righjt answer in some cases and the wrong answer in others. It can be a star pattern or have piece scattered around etc. Thus not only do you need to get out you need to quickly solve the puzzle of HOW to get out. This is a good thing IMO.
But it nothing anywhere close to a real action game where you are constantly moving to force the mob to move to a favorable palce or facing. This only exists in WS in people minds. Try not doing it and you will see.
1. I disagree. This is more of a personal preference though. I don't care to waste time on cutscenes or voice acting. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a cutscene here or there but not every time I talk to someone or as much as it is in FFXIV. I lost interest in Elder Scrolls after Daggerfall because of this as well. "Rift still holds the crown in terms of bringing the people in a zone together for a common cause" but you can also do this playing solo and it doesn't bring community together where Wildstar actually does. I find myself talking to people more in Wildstar and banding together because of unknown reasons which is awesome and what you should do in an MMORPG. Even you put "public events" in quotations because even though they are public, they are still solo.
2. NO! Just no. Get better or understand that you shouldn't be given a reward for simply doing something. The one thing that killed WoW and most other MMO's for me is the "no child left behind" mentality the community AND devs have come to adopt. I want to earn my gear, achievements, and place in Nexus with my blood, sweat, and tears. I don't want it given to me just because I put in the time or simply choose to play the game. I'm better than you and I want you to know it! This goes the other way too, I want better players than me to be able to hold me to that standard as well.
3. You can take off telegraphs in the options. BUT, doing this is the complete opposite of what you want in your previous complaint about nerfing dungeons. The telegraph system is there because otherwise, we would all be dying over and over until we learn each and every single monster.
4. YAY!
5. You mentioned TESO earlier which is geared towards ONLY questing to level up. Wildstar is an MMORPG so to level, you either quest or you grind. PERIOD. That's the way it was with Everquest (although it was more about grinding) and now because people don't want to put in time and effort, it's all about questing. Questing is fastest and most efficient, everything else you can still do but it's not as good. So what? it's there; you can do the less efficient way if you want but you just want it to be on par with questing. Well, it's not like that.
This also goes back to your #1 complaint about lore/voice acting/cutscenes. If you want all that, you get it through questing. Doing PvP to level or dungeon runs gives you none of that so now it just sounds like you can't make up your mind on what you want.
6. Take off the telegraphs if you don't like them. I personally think this game is beautifully done.
7. Housing is great!
8. Crafting is great!
So, to sum it up: You (and a lot of other people complaining about whatever MMO) want a game that has all voice acting/cutscenes, different ways to level your character each equally as efficient as the other, action style gameplay without any indication of where attacks are going to be or what is coming up next except by memorizing the monster's animation, no housing, no crafting, realistic graphics (which is always changing every few years), easy tasks that give big rewards just for participating, and public events you can play solo and never have to talk to fellow players.
If that's what you want, Wildstar is not the game for you and I hope they don't make it that game ever because I finally found my community. I hope the devs increase the difficulty of the game, nerf rewards, and continue doing what they are doing because I love it!
Thanks for your detailed response! Even though it was a bit biased and you *just a little* did not fully consider the points I was making. No offense, but if anyone thinks WS is without flaws, or couldn't possibly improve are fooling themselves. I do appreciate feedback.
1. Public Events don't have to be "solo" events. Make them hard, make grouping required. Scale to the number of players, make people communicate. Just because Rift did easymode World events, doens't mean that is how they have to be. I like to immerse myself in Lore as well, of which WS has none, or better doesn't really showcase it well.
2. I am not saying make the dungeons easymode express either...
3. Yeah telegraphs.. sigh
5. I don't care if that is what everquest did or any other MMO, I prefer alternate modes of leveling. TESO actually did solo questing very well and dungeons were fun (albeit pointless), getting a group was challenging though.
But yeah, people like the game, so I guess I am the odd man out. playing Blade & Soul CN right now, Looking forward to maybe trying Archeage and Black Desert, so I will call it a $60 loss and move on.
You're welcome We don't have to fight each other just because we disagree. I was just as biased about loving this game as you are about not enjoying it. We are just on opposite sides of the spectrum. I don't think WS is without flaws either, there is no perfect game and there never will be because it is the vision of the creators.
1. I agree that public events don't have to be solo events. Best case scenario for me would be putting an impossibly hard mob in the middle (or roaming) each map. It doesn't have to be a "public event", it should be something the community bands together to kill just because the community wants to. I don't believe games need to tell me what to do, especially if it's supposed to be open world. I want to make those decisions for myself. The term "open world" is a joke to me in modern day video games in general because everything is handed to the player whether it's tutorials, direction, a map, etc.
2. Dungeons, raids, anything that requires a group should be extremely difficult, long, and grueling. When people have to come together to accomplish something, it should take every ounce of effort. I shouldn't sit here and be able to watch tv, read a magazine, take a phone call, or do anything else when I'm in a dungeon. It doesn't matter if I'm level 5 or level 100...unless I'm beyond the level required for that dungeon, it should be a challenge.
3. Just play Monster Hunter
5. I think you just don't like leveling in general. It's like getting promoted at a job. You have to do stuff over and over and stuff you don't necessarily like to do to get that promotion. Stay the course, see rewards!
It's not that your the odd man out, it's that developers are making games too easy for players. We as players say we want one thing and when we get it, we don't want it or we say it's executed poorly. It's only because we are so used to high rewards/low risk we have the false sense of being "leet" when in actuality we suck; we finally get a game that makes us work and we don't have the patience for it. I know what I want and so far for me, WIldstar has it.
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Wise decision
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OP I know those are your opinions and you are entitled to them, but here is my opinion...You are a lazy fuck and you shouldn't play more casual mmo's. I hear Hello Kitty has one that should be easy enough for you.
Wildstar launched with so much to do. If you don't like to quest you can pvp. And the dungeons/adventures are great the way they are. You are suppose to wipe, its hard, but very rewarding when you finally make it through. Also dropping the holy trinity sounds like something a dps main would say. You want better que times then role a healer or a tank. All of your reasons for leaving really just makes me think that you didn't even try to play this game. It was too hard and you bailed, and am now looking for validation for being a pussy. Like I said hello kitty island adventure sounds like your dream game
Some of the content for gold/silver rewards has been made harder. Tower defence at lvl 50 os now 95% for gold instead of 90%
There doing a fix for war of the wilds adventure also making it harder for gold silver come next week.
The dev's posted we have no intention of nerfing anything very recently.
I Don't think you will get those options here OP.
My advice join a guild or a decent circle of peeps to get the most out of it.
You will be waiting a long time.
This is not a real action game. Its an MMORPG with action stuff put on top. When you do the math about how much damage you take from unavoidable, un-telegraphed "auto-attacks" you realize the game is every bit as gear dependent as and not skill-dependent as many of these other games.
This game is not like TERA and a good warrior solo-ing a BAM. The telegraph system adds some interesting input into positioning for a 3d real time game. But its not a skill-based system like a Dark Souls game where you can kill stuff naked if you really really good with immunity frames.
In Wildstar you are required to take damage. The only question is can you out-heal or out kill what you are fighting. Sometimes the getting hit by telegraphs matters in that equation. Sometimes you might as well face tank something and kill it as fast possible and not waste time moving instead of putting out damage, because the white damage is too high.
They do a pretty good job of faking it. You don't realize it until later. But it all mostly a shell game. The telegraphs are still fairly interesting. It allows for some very novel and less predictable AoE shapes.
Having played both TERA and Wildstar, the only identicality in combat is no tab target. Everything else is like day and night if I had to describe how combat feels and plays from one to another. Basicaly TERA requires you to think strategicaly due to movement limitations while executing most skills which are very very easy to miss and very punishing if executed at wrong time.
In WIldstar you just need to move non stop and spamm rotations while there's no chance in hell to miss all those aoe cones.
I'd say the confusion's on you.
After reading this thread again I had to come back to this statement I want to PUG it. Well this is not a pug friendly game nor should it be. Dungeons are something you should do with friends or guild members that talk to each other. How many times have people joined pug and no one will say anything other than to throw blame when something goes wrong. They wanted to make a game that was difficult it was in there mission statement basically. The only thing that was stated in the whole argument is maybe make sure at least one loot item drops for each person, so better looting, but keep it to one item guarantee no more.
Adventures are pug friendly so there is that. They are scaled down to make them easier.
This in not a solo players game, I love solo play but not everything should, nor everyone be able to solo everything. That is all nerfing does is make something more mind numbing. Enjoy the challenge as you probably want see it in the future of theme park games.
WildStar as a sub MMO isn't going to last, and the reasons are extremely simple. Some are in denial, some are fanboys, whatever it doesnt matter but heres the short version of facts IMO
Its a WoW clone. The questing is god awful at best. It's just a mind numbing "go collect X and go turn on that" quest hub grind.
The dungeons are harder and so are the raids, but other then turning up the NPC's dmg and health to make it twice as hard there is zero innovation in game.
The PVP is good, but its not good enough to save this game.
IF anyone cares to disagree i point to RIFT. The last WoW clone Raiding endgame MMO. It had ALOT more going for it then WS did with dynamic events, zone invasions and world invasions and raids that were actually quite hard (I still have nighmares about Infernal Dawn) and they put out MORE CONTENT then any MMO in history to date, and that still couldn't save it going Fail to play.
WS is heading the same way.
When I wake up, the real nightmare begins
Do you know what, class act for stating straight away by confirming this is your opinion rather than trying to spout things off as fact. Consumers need as much knowledge as possible before deciding on a purchase and although our opinions differ (as I am still very much enjoying myself) It was decent of you not to steer this is troll-ville.
As such, I would like to remark on the things you said, as this is indeed a forum for discussion.
1) I feel personally cut-scenes are fine and they do work well in Wildstar, a lot of people do complain about immersion, I offen find that these are the same type of people that skip reading quest details. But hey, that's what they choose to moan about. Fun thing about the cutscenes is that you can skip out of them, if you do you will see the events of the cutscene take place real time rather than a cinema view-point. So, skip if you wish, the cinematography is to bring you into the world, not take you out.
2) Dungeons do not need nerfing, by god no. The dungeons are the most fun I have had in an MMO for the longest of times. The difficulty when I first went in was refreshing and defeating a boss was it's own reward. As such, the rewards on offer are typical dungeon loot, gear pieces mostly. However uniques do drop, from the first dungeon I got myself an epic quality statue for my home. So, the incentive is there for people depending on what your flavour is.
I would also say the difficulty is fine for casuals or first timers, i think the issue here is your communication. I work full-time, I seldom get much time to play these days. Due to my play time alone I am deemed a casual these days. But, guess what I did the dungeon a couple of times, fumbled our way through it. Had a blast. I then added them to my friends and now I have fun people to play with to do the content. The trouble really in place here is not difficulty in a traditional sense, but difficulty with breaking people out of their agrophobic shell they have donned since WoW became a more casual friendly game.
Answer being, dungeons are hard. They are meant to be. They are meant to make you feel like you are playing a computer game. Like all video games (as they should be) playing with other people means you speak to them, form relationships and bonds to groom your way to success and lasting companionship. If you can't communicate, if you can't make friends, if you just want to play the game all alone and use other players as NPC's to gratify your own drives, then, MMO's aren't for you. This is not directed just to OP, but to anyone who falls into that category.
3) This is more an opinion than any real guidance to others. Wildstar is its own game, do not be disillusioned the game has made itself abundantly clear how its combat works, its featured heavily in all their videos. But their system is different to others. IT is more frantic, but also has a level of complexity and skill to it as you climb the ladder. You might prefer traditional MMO combat, this... is something different and although in your opinion you do not like it, does not make it a bad system. I'm enjoying it a lot as are many others.
4) Oddly just did my first PvP match today, had to capture masks. I had more fun than I thought I would, not being a PvP centric player. I think its because it felt like I had more control, that a person wasn't just able to hit me because they were in range and had me targetted.
5) You make an obscene amount of experience in a dungeon, they are viable. I assume you say they aren't because of the difficulty you mentioned earlier. Yes, if they take you a long time to complete then they wouldn't be. But if you make friends, play with others who know what to do or even help coach someone new then you make out like a bandit in dungeons. You have other ways to level, PvP like you say, the questing is varied also. I am not sure as to what others ways you are looking to level. Its an MMO its going to have the usual tropes in place.
6) Do you know what its like when you watch a sub-titled movie, you read the sub-titles but after a while your brain absorbs the information whilst you are watching it? Thats how Telegraphs are. I think its an alien concept for you, hooked on the tradition MMO mechanics you prior enjoyed. That is fine, but it doesn't put this game at fault because of them.
7) Actually Housing IS a selling point for games, people do tend to play MMO's that have housing in place. Its why people flocked back to RIFT its the reason Final Fantasy 14 up-coming private housing is anticipated. Housing is not required, not sure what you mean there. It provides conveinance to some and a whole another level of personal customization and dedication for others. Its a win/ win deal for all.
8) Crafting is fun, indepth, met with its own talent tree and unlockables. It is a great addition to the game. I am a dedicated crafter, I love gathering and crafting and the systems in place, allowing you to tweak stats and get intimate with the items you make is fantastic. As is the salvage system.
Anyhow, like I said our opinions differ, I am also quite tired so lots of spelling/grammar mistakes. I do hope you change your mind in the future and come back to the game. Part of me feels like you are trying to play the game in a way you want but getting annoyed you can't rather than trying to accept and play the game as intended. It is filled with depth and you just need to get there.
Hahahah, what an ass.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Still playing and riding out my 30 days! I am not a very social person in-game, but I like the idea of MMOs, I guess I like feeling apart of an online world, but my persona is sort of lone-ranger. I do enjoy getting to max as quick as possible on my first character in these themeparks, as I work full time as well and can't commit much time to them, which is why I prefer dungeon leveling.
That being said, you're right, I am trying to make this game work for me, instead of working at the game so to speak. But I do have to decide on paying a $15 sub.. if it was free and I could hop on at any time, I would definitely be less critical.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
And there we have it...
Actually moving non-stop is really not much use. This is part of the "fake action" nature of the game.
The "dash" move is the not the same as a dodge of typical action game. It's just a way to quickly cover ground. Moving around, for example circle strafing, can make a telegraph sometimes easier to get out of.
BUT and this is a big "but", a) you can never avoid the significant amount of auto damage via moving unless you are range kiting and the auto-attack is melee and b) you really are better served to NOT move and concentrate on the telegraph so you can dodge immmediately.
Also their telegraph detection is not that great and I suspect when you stand still the visual cues are more accurate.
Finally at least one class, esper, is actively encouraged to be immobile.
This is part of the fakeness of the system. People used to PvP and typical action games initially fall into the idea that constant movement is a good thing, at the very least slightly beneficial on telegraph angles.
In point of fact it doesn't matter at all. You merely need to react to the telegraph. And you will never avoid a large portion of damage without a fairly significant amount of CC and ranged kiting.
There is no real melee avoidance without stacking stats for deflect. In medium range (melee classes and medic). You might as well actually stand still easily 50% of the time. Sadly there is nothing tactical to these standstill moments like there are in TERA.
Basically in TERA every attack was avoidable and only very particular extremely cheesy mobs had guaranteed damage. In Wildstar all mobs have guaranteed to be unavoidable by skill damage and some of them have significant amount of it.
The auto-attack on a 5-man mob can hit for well over 1000hp at level 20 this will kill you in something like 10 hits depending on class. Many BAM in TERA can be completely flawlessly killed if you are extremely skilled/lucky. Of course you almost always make mistakes in TERA, so that doesn't really happen, I am merely pointing out what is possible not plausible.
In TERA you are also constantly moving when not in the throes of an attack or defense animation. This movement is of key importance for guiding the BAM to a position or setting yourself up for you next attack or to avoid an possible special move. This is not true really in Wildstar although you are initially inclined to believe it is.
The telegraph system is nice in that it adds another dimension to things in that not only do you need to "get out of the AoE" but it forces you to get out of the AoE IN A PARTICULAR WAY. So dashing back is the righjt answer in some cases and the wrong answer in others. It can be a star pattern or have piece scattered around etc. Thus not only do you need to get out you need to quickly solve the puzzle of HOW to get out. This is a good thing IMO.
But it nothing anywhere close to a real action game where you are constantly moving to force the mob to move to a favorable palce or facing. This only exists in WS in people minds. Try not doing it and you will see.
You're welcome
We don't have to fight each other just because we disagree. I was just as biased about loving this game as you are about not enjoying it. We are just on opposite sides of the spectrum. I don't think WS is without flaws either, there is no perfect game and there never will be because it is the vision of the creators.
1. I agree that public events don't have to be solo events. Best case scenario for me would be putting an impossibly hard mob in the middle (or roaming) each map. It doesn't have to be a "public event", it should be something the community bands together to kill just because the community wants to. I don't believe games need to tell me what to do, especially if it's supposed to be open world. I want to make those decisions for myself. The term "open world" is a joke to me in modern day video games in general because everything is handed to the player whether it's tutorials, direction, a map, etc.
2. Dungeons, raids, anything that requires a group should be extremely difficult, long, and grueling. When people have to come together to accomplish something, it should take every ounce of effort. I shouldn't sit here and be able to watch tv, read a magazine, take a phone call, or do anything else when I'm in a dungeon. It doesn't matter if I'm level 5 or level 100...unless I'm beyond the level required for that dungeon, it should be a challenge.
3. Just play Monster Hunter
5. I think you just don't like leveling in general. It's like getting promoted at a job. You have to do stuff over and over and stuff you don't necessarily like to do to get that promotion. Stay the course, see rewards!
It's not that your the odd man out, it's that developers are making games too easy for players. We as players say we want one thing and when we get it, we don't want it or we say it's executed poorly. It's only because we are so used to high rewards/low risk we have the false sense of being "leet" when in actuality we suck; we finally get a game that makes us work and we don't have the patience for it. I know what I want and so far for me, WIldstar has it.