However, it doesn't make DF a good game. It's got the worst melee combat in any game I've ever experienced. Oblivion had better melee and that's saying a lot.
If they had implemented something more like DCUO's weapon combos, blocking, and dodging I'd probably still be playing the game and would be willing to overlook many of the other faults I have with it.
Like the economy, the huge grind, the massive disparity between newer players and older players, the prep laces housing and castles, and magic banks that allow you to access items anywhere in the world and results in a shallow economy. These are just a few things, that along with the god awful melee, makes DF no better than ESO and not really a worthy substitute for a real ES MMO.
BTW, mortal online is far more like an ES game than DF, and if they had had ESO's budget and a team of devs who knew what they were doing it would have been a great game.
i think the conversation is not about if Darkfall is a good game or not. The conversation is on how its more like ES then ESO is.
You would be correct if the OP wasn't also pitching the game as a substitute for ESO, for those people looking for an ES MMO and found ESO lacking.
You can read the whole thing like I did, or just skip to the very end.
well true.
I think given the sensitivity of the subject he should have made two seperate threads so the point doesnt get confused.
Pretty sure the point of the OP is that DF is more like ES than ESO and so you should try it if you're looking for something more like ES.
Quality shouldn't be disregarded just because its more similar.
Rat is more like beef than tofu is, but I wouldn't eat either if what I want is a steak.
In the same vein, if I wanted a game that was more like an ES game, I wouldn't play either DF or ESO, I'd just go play an ES game. Neither are worthy substitutes.
However, if I was going to recommend an MMO that was most similar to ES it wouldn't be darkfall, it would be mortal online. You also don't have to spend a penny to find out that MO lacks quality.
To be clear I played DF1 for 4 years.
For me DF1 was a great game. ESO doesnt have a feature list I give two f8cks about.
Is DF1 exactly like ES? no, is it the closest thing out there in the MMO space? yes
Is DF1 fun? to me it was a blast.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
PS: comparing DF to EVE is an insult to CCP and EVE online. Just because they both have FFA PvP doesn't make them similar. DF is full loot that doesn't really have that much of a benefit to the economy. EVE has destruction which is integral to the economy of the game.
So does Darkfall. Did you know that there is a durability loss upon gank? Low dura gear will break and disappear. The economy balance thread did a lot to the game. It got people out actively farming and more rewarding than semi=afk harvesting. Still a ways to go though and AV will openly admit that.
Its still not really comparable though. The items still persist after death, and it takes a good bit for them to break.
Losing things in DF should be a non issue, you should have a bank full of gear to replace what you might lose.
If I lose my freighter in EVE, I'm looking at a significant loss, that freighter cost me 1.5 billion and isn't easily replaced.
I kind of think there is more to Elder Scrolls games, at least from Morrowind on (possibly Daggerfall, still playing and having technical difficulties) than just skill based and open world.
there needs to be an interesting and compelling world where the players can explore.
If you were to take pvp out of Darkfall would the remaining content be compelling/interesting?
However, it doesn't make DF a good game. It's got the worst melee combat in any game I've ever experienced. Oblivion had better melee and that's saying a lot.
If they had implemented something more like DCUO's weapon combos, blocking, and dodging I'd probably still be playing the game and would be willing to overlook many of the other faults I have with it.
Like the economy, the huge grind, the massive disparity between newer players and older players, the prep laces housing and castles, and magic banks that allow you to access items anywhere in the world and results in a shallow economy. These are just a few things, that along with the god awful melee, makes DF no better than ESO and not really a worthy substitute for a real ES MMO.
BTW, mortal online is far more like an ES game than DF, and if they had had ESO's budget and a team of devs who knew what they were doing it would have been a great game.
i think the conversation is not about if Darkfall is a good game or not. The conversation is on how its more like ES then ESO is.
You would be correct if the OP wasn't also pitching the game as a substitute for ESO, for those people looking for an ES MMO and found ESO lacking.
You can read the whole thing like I did, or just skip to the very end.
well true.
I think given the sensitivity of the subject he should have made two seperate threads so the point doesnt get confused.
Pretty sure the point of the OP is that DF is more like ES than ESO and so you should try it if you're looking for something more like ES.
Quality shouldn't be disregarded just because its more similar.
Rat is more like beef than tofu is, but I wouldn't eat either if what I want is a steak.
In the same vein, if I wanted a game that was more like an ES game, I wouldn't play either DF or ESO, I'd just go play an ES game. Neither are worthy substitutes.
However, if I was going to recommend an MMO that was most similar to ES it wouldn't be darkfall, it would be mortal online. You also don't have to spend a penny to find out that MO lacks quality.
To be clear I played DF1 for 4 years.
For me DF1 was a great game. ESO doesnt have a feature list I give two f8cks about.
Is DF1 exactly like ES? no, is it the closest thing out there in the MMO space? yes
Is DF1 fun? to me it was a blast.
I know Sean. We played at the same time.
PS: and I disagree. As far as an MMO that is most like an ES game goes, that would be Mortal Online.
PS: comparing DF to EVE is an insult to CCP and EVE online. Just because they both have FFA PvP doesn't make them similar. DF is full loot that doesn't really have that much of a benefit to the economy. EVE has destruction which is integral to the economy of the game.
So does Darkfall. Did you know that there is a durability loss upon gank? Low dura gear will break and disappear. The economy balance thread did a lot to the game. It got people out actively farming and more rewarding than semi=afk harvesting. Still a ways to go though and AV will openly admit that.
Its still not really comparable though. The items still persist after death, and it takes a good bit for them to break.
Losing things in DF should be a non issue, you should have a bank full of gear to replace what you might lose.
If I lose my freighter in EVE, I'm looking at a significant loss, that freighter cost me 1.5 billion and isn't easily replaced.
No, they increased the durability loss in the recent economy patch. During PVP use the weapon will degrade a lot faster now and upon gank you will lose 10% durability (I think, not sure I remember).
Also like EvE, Darkfall has more expensive higher end weapons and armour, so if you are going to compare the two, use the right comparison.
PS: comparing DF to EVE is an insult to CCP and EVE online. Just because they both have FFA PvP doesn't make them similar. DF is full loot that doesn't really have that much of a benefit to the economy. EVE has destruction which is integral to the economy of the game.
So does Darkfall. Did you know that there is a durability loss upon gank? Low dura gear will break and disappear. The economy balance thread did a lot to the game. It got people out actively farming and more rewarding than semi=afk harvesting. Still a ways to go though and AV will openly admit that.
Its still not really comparable though. The items still persist after death, and it takes a good bit for them to break.
Losing things in DF should be a non issue, you should have a bank full of gear to replace what you might lose.
If I lose my freighter in EVE, I'm looking at a significant loss, that freighter cost me 1.5 billion and isn't easily replaced.
No, they increased the durability loss in the recent economy patch. During PVP use the weapon will degrade a lot faster now and upon gank you will lose 10% durability (I think, not sure I remember).
Also like EvE, Darkfall has more expensive higher end weapons and armour, so if you are going to compare the two, use the right comparison.
I want to jump in here and tell you guys (as a developer) that some of the differences you guys are talking about is something that can be changed in an XML file in about 30 seconds.
I know you are talking about the differences between Eve and Darkfall in a forum that really is about something else but I did want to add a point of perspective.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No, they increased the durability loss in the recent economy patch. During PVP use the weapon will degrade a lot faster now and upon gank you will lose 10% durability (I think, not sure I remember).
Also like EvE, Darkfall has more expensive higher end weapons and armour, so if you are going to compare the two, use the right comparison.
There are not too many big ticket items a person can loose in Darkfall. Right now it will be Ship of the Line, probably a wonder city. Hopefully the siege engine introduction will change all that.
I kind of think there is more to Elder Scrolls games, at least from Morrowind on (possibly Daggerfall, still playing and having technical difficulties) than just skill based and open world.
there needs to be an interesting and compelling world where the players can explore.
If you were to take pvp out of Darkfall would the remaining content be compelling/interesting?
Nope. This (along with admittedly pretty terrible combat) is what really breaks it for me. The landscapes and architecture are colossal and sometimes awe-inspiring, but there is no substance to it. I get the idea of trying to make the players generate the reason to play, but I've just felt (since DF1) that there needs to be something more.
The original Darkfall had the potential to be a sandbox version look a like skyrim but tghen they destroyed it with UW. Its a shell now and and now its a big arena for epeen pvp.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Yes full loot blah blah. In Skyrim you always have more armor than you know what to do with. In Skyrim you end up leaving armor on corpses constantly just because it's not worth the bag weight to carry it away. Darkfall too!
Check out these similarities:
Full loot: Every time you kill something, you can loot it's entire bag, not just a coin or something stupid like that. Sure you end up leaving a lot of stuff on corpses, but you did in Skyrim too right?
Open world, with a couple instances.
Free Progression: Stay with me, in Darkfall, instead of earning levels, you earn "Prowess Points" some achievements (kill 160 of this type of mob (humanoid etc), craft an entire cloth set, ETC) give a nice batch of prowess points, most beginner monsters give 1 or 2 points, harder monsters give more and more and more. - Instead of leveling up, you spend your on skills. You can put them into a harvesting skill, a weapon skill, a magic spell, your STRENGTH or INTELLIGENCE. As you level up a skill with prowess points, the next level of the skill slowly increases in cost, not steeply, but consistently. - Not a grinder? No big deal, run around and do things you want to do, trivial tasks give small amounts of prowess too. Using harvesting skills, crafting skills, fishing, boating, all give prowess.
Any Gear Any Time: If I'm a magic user, sure I can put on plate armor, I can even chase you around with a huge battle axe. I'll be somewhat limited in my performance unless I've put some points into STR and Polearms, but I could chase you with it none-the-less. Maybe even kill you. I could also pull out my Staff and start casting spells on you, the armor being worn has impacts on the weapon / spell damage. Wearing cloth armor with a 2 hander is viable, you do a lot more damage that way, but you also sacrifice your defenses - In melee range :X
Limited health pools: Players don't have 1920305 HP. I think the maximum you can have with all the available skills being combined that help HP is about 450. The game is more about learning to parry, block, and evade, than how to run in the middle of a fight and run back out when you get to 80%. If you run into the front of a fight, you're probably going to die, you only need to hope you get resurrected before someone gets brave enough to also come to the front and try to loot you.
Endless progression: I think Skyrim stopped at level 80 something because that was the level that you had 100 in everything? That's how Darkfall is, except without the levels. You could ultimately put 100 in every skill, every STAT, every craft, you can be 100 at everything. It would be an incredibly long journey to accomplish, but it is possible. You would not be almighty from this either, if you did something foolish, you'd die just like the rest of us.
MISCONCEPTIONS:
"I'm going to lose everything when I die!!!"
The rule of thumb in Darkfall is to not leave town with anything that you're not willing to lose. This doesn't mean you can't wear your best armor, it just means don't wear your best armor unless you've already got a back-up set in case you lose it.
You have a bank, it has 'seemingly unlimited' capacity. Not truly unlimited, but for all intensive purposes, you can put as much crap as you want in it.
To elaborate, all items are craftable in this game. I have 5 sets of my cloth armor that I am currently wearing, along with 2 sets of 'elegant' cloth armor that is substantially more expensive because it requires more mats to craft. I don't go out alone wearing my elegant, I go out with my clan wearing it because I know if I get killed there's a strong chance I can be revived before I get ganked. I've lost a set of my elegant cloth before, and a Selentine Staff that I have 3 more of in the bank. I did not have a strong emotional reaction to the loss because I know I simply have / can create more.
There's a lot better crafted weapons, and a lot better crafted armor than the stuff I'm using, but I'm not willing to lose it, so I'm not willing to invest in it. The differences in what people are willing to lose in this game varies greatly from one player to the next. Some of the best items I own came from corpses I looted on the battlefield. Best by my standards.
GEAR DOESN'T MAKE or BREAK THE GAME. Being naked is bad, but wearing a poor set of plate armor compared to an expensive set is appropriately nerfing. You can make an informed decision about if you want to go to this giant castle siege with your best or your worst gear.
GANKFEST!!! - Kind of. I've been killed by people I had no chance against in combat, while minding my own business. I'd say a good 80% of people that have killed me appreciated my willingness to try to fight back and revived me instead of picking through my worthless gear. I've also been looted a couple of times, usually because I was farming a highly contested mob that drops an expensive crafting material regularly. I returned to my corpse and found it only looted of the material and managed to recover the rest of my gear.
The games are a lot more similar than I can sit here and explain. As a Skyrim fan, I abandoned ESO after several hours of guided questing. Skyrim had a lot of quests, but it was never the primary focus of the entire game, it was the focus of the story, but not of the game. - In MMorrowind I never even realized there was a quest until I had hundreds of hours in.
I avoided playing Darkfall because of all the bitterness about it I had seen at it's prolonged and delayed release. I really am frustrated I hadn't tried it sooner. It's got the freedom of progression only found in that terrible MMO called runescape. However it pulls it together with the graphics of a modern MMO.
PVP on Land & Sea, you can actually chop trees, refine wood and other materials. Build parts, create a siege weapon, or create a battle ship complete with cannons. You can make a fishing boat and take it out on the ocean and catch fish. You can cook the fish. If you're careless: someone can board your ship, murder you, and steal it and all it's cargo.
When you want to siege a castle, a siege stone is laid, all players are given 22 hours notice of the siege. This gives the opportunity for players to pick sides, or to decide to avoid the area. Once the siege has been won, the victorious alliance now controls the castle / town, vendors, crafting stations, and bank (common to other banks).
The gates of a town can only be opened by someone in the alliance, and the vendors / crafting stations are only usable to them. That doesn't stop a brave soul from finding a way to gain access to the city either by blasting himself over a wall, or finding a way to climb in. - He will probably get killed unless he's amazing though.
Come give the game a try if you were disappointed with Skyrim, it might not be for you, but you're only out the $15 sub fee if it isn't. The game has no box price just the sub fee, find it on Steam.
You pretty much just described Archeage... I'll stick with that thanks
You're just not using the english language properly.
Not even closEST.
It's easily one the closest games to EvE. Not to mention the pvp in Darkfall is 100x better. Don't get me wrong. EvE is a great game but I just think DF is much better.
Originally posted by Badaboom It's easily one the closest games to EvE. Not to mention the pvp in Darkfall is 100x better. Don't get me wrong. EvE is a great game but I just think DF is much better.
EVE might be considered closest to Darkfall but not the other way round.
Il just say it that way, DF Is more like Elder scroll than ESO will ever be, but in DF, you have to bear in mind that you're as much of a victim as a bandit who's not only gonna get killed, but full stripped as well.
Then they say we, DF players, we probably used to be bullies or losers so we just want to take it all up on a game to ruin someone else's day. Not at all, that's the total opposite.
In general, games are used to escape reality. You kill and you get no penalties in return. Even if you die, you return 1 step backward which is nothing. Nothing like oldschool games where you used to have only 3 lives and it was it. Games were not used to entirely escape reality since the penalties were just as severe.
DF's penalties are just as severe as reality and hardcore games. Every other games are the ones made for bullies and losers who only want to win and never lose no matter what.
You're just not using the english language properly.
Not even closEST.
It's easily one the closest games to EvE. Not to mention the pvp in Darkfall is 100x better. Don't get me wrong. EvE is a great game but I just think DF is much better.
when DF implements its alignment system (assuming it's good) and deepens crafting a lot, then, to me it will be as good as eve.its not there yet... eve is one hell of a game.
however, (and i was there!!) DF at age 1 and a half is way ahead of where eve was at age 1 and a half
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
"The Elder Scrolls is a series of action role-playing open world fantasy video games" - From the wikipedia article on Elder Scrolls...
ESO is not an open world game... The way that it takes you by the hand and leads you through the canned storyline makes it extremely difficult to role play in... Suspicion is that ESO is an elder scrolls game in name only.
I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.
I kind of think there is more to Elder Scrolls games, at least from Morrowind on (possibly Daggerfall, still playing and having technical difficulties) than just skill based and open world.
there needs to be an interesting and compelling world where the players can explore.
If you were to take pvp out of Darkfall would the remaining content be compelling/interesting?
yep. there are a ton of people clamouring for PVE servers. the game would be BIG if it had some.
even tho it doesn't, there are quite a few pure PVE players (like the long posts earlier in this thread) that are willing to risk ganks in order to try to get just the PVE experience.
I kind of think there is more to Elder Scrolls games, at least from Morrowind on (possibly Daggerfall, still playing and having technical difficulties) than just skill based and open world.
there needs to be an interesting and compelling world where the players can explore.
If you were to take pvp out of Darkfall would the remaining content be compelling/interesting?
Not a bit.
nice way to discredit yourself. good luck getting people to put any weight on anything you say in DF threads
Comments
To be clear I played DF1 for 4 years.
For me DF1 was a great game. ESO doesnt have a feature list I give two f8cks about.
Is DF1 exactly like ES? no, is it the closest thing out there in the MMO space? yes
Is DF1 fun? to me it was a blast.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Its still not really comparable though. The items still persist after death, and it takes a good bit for them to break.
Losing things in DF should be a non issue, you should have a bank full of gear to replace what you might lose.
If I lose my freighter in EVE, I'm looking at a significant loss, that freighter cost me 1.5 billion and isn't easily replaced.
Not a bit.
I know Sean. We played at the same time.
PS: and I disagree. As far as an MMO that is most like an ES game goes, that would be Mortal Online.
No, they increased the durability loss in the recent economy patch. During PVP use the weapon will degrade a lot faster now and upon gank you will lose 10% durability (I think, not sure I remember).
Also like EvE, Darkfall has more expensive higher end weapons and armour, so if you are going to compare the two, use the right comparison.
I want to jump in here and tell you guys (as a developer) that some of the differences you guys are talking about is something that can be changed in an XML file in about 30 seconds.
I know you are talking about the differences between Eve and Darkfall in a forum that really is about something else but I did want to add a point of perspective.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
He said it's the closEST thing. You said it's not. So what's closer? What's closer to being a fantasy eve?
As I said...nothing can be considered close.
EVE Online is just too different from any game to be compared to.
There are not too many big ticket items a person can loose in Darkfall. Right now it will be Ship of the Line, probably a wonder city. Hopefully the siege engine introduction will change all that.
Nope. This (along with admittedly pretty terrible combat) is what really breaks it for me. The landscapes and architecture are colossal and sometimes awe-inspiring, but there is no substance to it. I get the idea of trying to make the players generate the reason to play, but I've just felt (since DF1) that there needs to be something more.
The original Darkfall had the potential to be a sandbox version look a like skyrim but tghen they destroyed it with UW. Its a shell now and and now its a big arena for epeen pvp.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
You pretty much just described Archeage... I'll stick with that thanks
You're just not using the english language properly.
Not even closEST.
It's easily one the closest games to EvE. Not to mention the pvp in Darkfall is 100x better. Don't get me wrong. EvE is a great game but I just think DF is much better.
EVE might be considered closest to Darkfall but not the other way round.
Il just say it that way, DF Is more like Elder scroll than ESO will ever be, but in DF, you have to bear in mind that you're as much of a victim as a bandit who's not only gonna get killed, but full stripped as well.
Then they say we, DF players, we probably used to be bullies or losers so we just want to take it all up on a game to ruin someone else's day. Not at all, that's the total opposite.
In general, games are used to escape reality. You kill and you get no penalties in return. Even if you die, you return 1 step backward which is nothing. Nothing like oldschool games where you used to have only 3 lives and it was it. Games were not used to entirely escape reality since the penalties were just as severe.
DF's penalties are just as severe as reality and hardcore games. Every other games are the ones made for bullies and losers who only want to win and never lose no matter what.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
when DF implements its alignment system (assuming it's good) and deepens crafting a lot, then, to me it will be as good as eve.its not there yet... eve is one hell of a game.
however, (and i was there!!) DF at age 1 and a half is way ahead of where eve was at age 1 and a half
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
^^
i cant understand why ppl still or even try to think like that...ESO was never sopose to be like skyrim lol
which I think is why nobody is interested.
I am glad to see ESO fans saying that it was not the plan rather than not possible. That is a huge improvement
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"The Elder Scrolls is a series of action role-playing open world fantasy video games" - From the wikipedia article on Elder Scrolls...
ESO is not an open world game... The way that it takes you by the hand and leads you through the canned storyline makes it extremely difficult to role play in... Suspicion is that ESO is an elder scrolls game in name only.
I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.
yep. there are a ton of people clamouring for PVE servers. the game would be BIG if it had some.
even tho it doesn't, there are quite a few pure PVE players (like the long posts earlier in this thread) that are willing to risk ganks in order to try to get just the PVE experience.
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Corpus Callosum
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nice way to discredit yourself. good luck getting people to put any weight on anything you say in DF threads
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Corpus Callosum
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