Originally posted by fansede Whats everyones thoughts about the game economy? I had 122 plat at lvl 2. The only money sinks I saw were some spell components, some potions, some food/drink at the bar and occasional armor repair. Cheers
When you gain access to the shops to each of the cities houses you can buy magic items that cost 10,000 - 20,000 - 30,000 - etc gold... Also the pawn shops have high priced items also. Plus players sell items directly to other players for various amounts.
1 plat = 10 gold
As you get better gear the repair costs sky-rocket, so does the better food for when you have more hp/sp and don't want to sit in an inn for a bit.
Edit spelling
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Originally posted by Nomad40 First off to the OP- I am glad you like it. I felt the same way...at first.
Been in since the Alpha. I have reported bugs galore for them to fix, offered feedback on their questing, combat,etc and tried to remain objective in how they decided to present the game. I think most of the game just needs some tweaking. The grouping system is a LOT better than it used to be.
This is a group centric game, sadly if you can't be social this isn't the game for you.
Currently I have boiled down all my objections to one sentance uttered by Ken Troop and its impact on the state of the game.
Ken Troop There are 130+ dungeons/quests in DDO right now. As others have pointed out, many of those quests are far longer and more elaborate than what is typically defined as a quest in other online games.
This is, roughly, the same number of dungeons/quests we had when Alpha began. We've spent our entire time over the last few months reviewing/polishing/and bugfixing existing content. Our content is our gold standard. It has to be the best. And until it was polished to our satisfaction we didn't want to make a ton more of it. Post-launch, however, our main focus, certainly for the design team, is more content. Speaking from personal experience on AC1, it is far easier to create quality content for an existing game, with existing tools pipeline and existing game systems, than it is to create quality content while you're still juggling all the different development balls you need to to create a MMP today. Hence the need to spend so much time post-creation on getting the content to where we want it to be. We also will be looking at more randomness in the content. A large part of the lack of randomness in DDO is deliberate. Our philosophy has typically been very "anti-random". Personally, I have a very hard time caring or enjoying content that is either completely random, or scaled in difficulty based on, say, the size of my party. Where is the challenge? Where is the learnable/masterable experience? (Some of my best memories of early online MUD play are playing an area over and over again, learning how to succeed, learning how to master it -- if an experience is endlessly mutable, that thrill of mastery is gone). That said, we did recognize the value of some randomness within the more static context ...we just haven't emphasized it as much compared to other elements of the content. One of the strongest takeaways I have from the last few months of Beta feedback has been to increase our use of randomness in our future dungeon efforts. Another relevant factor for us recently is getting good factual data about xp advancement rates and availability. Now that we have this data and have analyzed it, we will be likely increasing the xp for certain dungeons in order to make sure that the amount of time a player *has* to replay a dungeon (assuming completion of Normal, Hard, and Elite) in order to advance is kept to a minimum. As I've said before in various other posts, and I will keep on saying it --> - There are some players out there who don't enjoy or understand DDO. We didn't think this game would appeal to everyone; unsurprisingly, we were right We're glad that there are so many other online games that might be more their cup of tea. Our future plans for this game are continuing the course we're on. We're very happy with the game and we're gratified to see so many other people happy with it, too. - There are some players out there who like DDO a lot, like what we're doing, but just wish there was a lot more of it. We agree. We know that for some players it is the most significant factor in whether they choose to subscribe to DDO. Just to be very clear -- What you see in DDO today in terms of content scope is what you will see when DDO launches. But it's not going to be what you see a month+ out from DDO launch. There's a lot of content that was either nearing completion or half-way through completion that we've kept back because we needed to focus on launch, in addition to completely new content some of the team will be working on soon. We will continue to be aggressive in pumping out content regularly post-launch. - There are some players out there who are unconditionally (mostly )happy -- thanks We do appreciate it. We're very excited about continuing to improve and grow this game. Thanks, Rabb1t, for taking the time to post, and to everyone else for all the replies...the feedback is invaluable. Ken Troop
For those of you lacking the fortitude to read the entire thing, it boils down to Ken saying his vision (what he loves) is running the same dungeon over and over. And mastering it.
Mastering a dungeon?
This guy is so NOT a DnD geek.
My issues is that I like mastering my CHARACTER.
He will have you run the same mission on EASY/MEDIUM/HARD. The traps are in the same place. The mobs are in the same place. Everything is in the same place. The mobs have more HP and the treasure drops are better.
Can you say DIABLO?
This one issue is IMHO going to make this game get a big initial response and then people will leave.
It is boring to grind the same dungeon (which you need to do to level enough to go get the other content dungeons/quests)
The game that promised no grinding? Comes with a lot of it.
That makes me sad as a big fan of the franchise. To have so little actually given with the game (no crafting, housing, world exploring, etc) I had hope for much more than this.
this is the most misunderstood and misrepresented quote ever. all anyone ever sees is Ken Troops one opinion. and NOT the line right above that says MORE RANDOM CONTENT it's right there first line of paragraph 4. he explained his view then on line 7 of paragraph 4 explains that they recognize the need for randomness and that they have taken note of what beta testers have said and will be paying more attention to the random element.
the static dungeons in beta are like this on purpose for whatever reason and again is explained in the post.
Originally posted by ashantieaton I've been waiting for this game as long many others, almost a year of checking the the forum for updates every couple weeks. I'm a major fan of the P&P game I played as a child and loved it. Couldn't wait to play. Got into the beta a week ago. This game is instanced and I LOVE that. As a former 2 year SWG player I'm so tired of having to spend hour after hour camping a boss for the one in six chance of being the one who gets to loot the body for the best loot. The game is focused on groups but its easy as piss to get in one. The players are older and mature and the conversations are fun and the play is good. The central world is large enough to explore and allows you to move around with all the other players and talk and chat and have fun. I dont see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where I'm going.
Does the word Massive mean anything to you? Because it is a Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game, you don't think travel should take a long time in a Massive world?
Devs really piss me off, bending the genre just to make mass amounts of cash off people who are used to singleplayer games. "I don't see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where i'm going in a Massively multiplayer game."
Once, there was a time when the devs at turbine cared about making a massive and interesting world. They had portal loops that would take you where you needed to go, and a run skill so at higher levels, getting places would be less tedious. honestly what the fuck? Against travelling in a fucking MASSIVELY multiplayer online roleplaying game. If the world is created right, travelling shouldn't be so tedious, it should be interesting. Fuck these stupid watered down versions of MMORPG's...
Originally posted by ashantieaton I've been waiting for this game as long many others, almost a year of checking the the forum for updates every couple weeks. I'm a major fan of the P&P game I played as a child and loved it. Couldn't wait to play. Got into the beta a week ago. This game is instanced and I LOVE that. As a former 2 year SWG player I'm so tired of having to spend hour after hour camping a boss for the one in six chance of being the one who gets to loot the body for the best loot. The game is focused on groups but its easy as piss to get in one. The players are older and mature and the conversations are fun and the play is good. The central world is large enough to explore and allows you to move around with all the other players and talk and chat and have fun. I dont see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where I'm going.
Does the word Massive mean anything to you? Because it is a Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game, you don't think travel should take a long time in a Massive world?
Devs really piss me off, bending the genre just to make mass amounts of cash off people who are used to singleplayer games. "I don't see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where i'm going in a Massively multiplayer game."
Once, there was a time when the devs at turbine cared about making a massive and interesting world. They had portal loops that would take you where you needed to go, and a run skill so at higher levels, getting places would be less tedious. honestly what the fuck? Against travelling in a fucking MASSIVELY multiplayer online roleplaying game. If the world is created right, travelling shouldn't be so tedious, it should be interesting. Fuck these stupid watered down versions of MMORPG's...
Pretty sure the Massive in MMORPG stands for massive amounts of people NOT massive amounts of land.
Originally posted by c-tray Originally posted by ScottcOriginally posted by ashantieatonI've been waiting for this game as long many others, almost a year of checking the the forum for updates every couple weeks. I'm a major fan of the P&P game I played as a child and loved it. Couldn't wait to play. Got into the beta a week ago.This game is instanced and I LOVE that. As a former 2 year SWG player I'm so tired of having to spend hour after hour camping a boss for the one in six chance of being the one who gets to loot the body for the best loot. The game is focused on groups but its easy as piss to get in one. The players are older and mature and the conversations are fun and the play is good.The central world is large enough to explore and allows you to move around with all the other players and talk and chat and have fun. I dont see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where I'm going.Does the word Massive mean anything to you? Because it is a Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game, you don't think travel should take a long time in a Massive world? Devs really piss me off, bending the genre just to make mass amounts of cash off people who are used to singleplayer games. "I don't see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where i'm going in a Massively multiplayer game." Once, there was a time when the devs at turbine cared about making a massive and interesting world. They had portal loops that would take you where you needed to go, and a run skill so at higher levels, getting places would be less tedious. honestly what the fuck? Against travelling in a fucking MASSIVELY multiplayer online roleplaying game. If the world is created right, travelling shouldn't be so tedious, it should be interesting. Fuck these stupid watered down versions of MMORPG's...Pretty sure the Massive in MMORPG stands for massive amounts of people NOT massive amounts of land.
The massive includes everything, players, content (which includes items, area's to explore, dungeons, etc).
Originally posted by ashantieatonI've been waiting for this game as long many others, almost a year of checking the the forum for updates every couple weeks. I'm a major fan of the P&P game I played as a child and loved it. Couldn't wait to play. Got into the beta a week ago.This game is instanced and I LOVE that. As a former 2 year SWG player I'm so tired of having to spend hour after hour camping a boss for the one in six chance of being the one who gets to loot the body for the best loot. The game is focused on groups but its easy as piss to get in one. The players are older and mature and the conversations are fun and the play is good.The central world is large enough to explore and allows you to move around with all the other players and talk and chat and have fun. I dont see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where I'm going. Does the word Massive mean anything to you? Because it is a Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game, you don't think travel should take a long time in a Massive world? Devs really piss me off, bending the genre just to make mass amounts of cash off people who are used to singleplayer games. "I don't see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where i'm going in a Massively multiplayer game." Once, there was a time when the devs at turbine cared about making a massive and interesting world. They had portal loops that would take you where you needed to go, and a run skill so at higher levels, getting places would be less tedious. honestly what the fuck? Against travelling in a fucking MASSIVELY multiplayer online roleplaying game. If the world is created right, travelling shouldn't be so tedious, it should be interesting. Fuck these stupid watered down versions of MMORPG's... Pretty sure the Massive in MMORPG stands for massive amounts of people NOT massive amounts of land.
The massive includes everything, players, content (which includes items, area's to explore, dungeons, etc).
In my personal experience (EQ, EQII, CoH, Guild Wars), there has never been an MMO where exploration was fun or practical. In EQII, which had pretty good graphics, you would run around and look at cool things only to run into a mob 20 levels higher than you that would instantly kill you (EQ was the same with less nice graphics, CoH had nothing cool to look at but had the same problem and Guild Wars I didn't play enough to know for sure). Then your body would be stuck in the middle of no where and you had to remember how to get there to get your stuff back. Maybe I was "exploring" wrong, but staying to the area where I could safely kill the mobs or get back to the safe zones if I got in trouble didn't give me a whole lot of space. Basically, you were trying to level so you could move into a new zone or area and see something cool. Also keep in mind, for players with limited time to play, spending time "exploring" to find a dungeon entrance or a quest NPC is not fun at all (this unfortunately contributes to my point about instant gratification, see below).
Let me preface the rest of my comment by saying that I haven't yet played DDO, but plan on participating in the preview this weekend. What I have heard about DDO, is that your exploration comes from the variations in the dungeon environments. Some for example are outside, in sewers, etc. So one can look at exploring a new dungeon like exploring a new zone with loot, traps and puzzles in it for you and your group to find without worrying about a mob randomly popping in your location and slaughtering you. Granted, I have also heard that the dungeons in DDO are not as big as zones, nor do they change if you repeat a quest on a different difficulty level.
One thing I whole-heartedly agree with you on, is that the MMOs coming out now are watered-down. Particularly when it comes to difficulty. While I don't like a super high level mob popping on me and killing me in one blow as I'm trying to get to an area of my level, I read an article (which I obviously agree with) that makes the point that PC Games in general (not just MMOs, but MMOs in particular) are catering to an audience who wants instant gratification. From what I've heard WoW is the most guilty of this among the MMOs and happens to be the most popular MMO out (surprise,surprise). Mobs are too easy to kill and its too easy to level. You never really struggle for anything and the game never tries to force you to. I have heard that DDO is challenging, that you can't solo it or even duo some quests which I think is great, but only time will tell with that. If you have time on your hands to run your character around a game, then I suggest you find a different one, that's all. I hear that Vanguard is supposed to be more like the original EQ in difficulty and size.
----------------------------- "I find this... distasteful."
Originally posted by McBane6267 Originally posted by ScottcOriginally posted by c-trayOriginally posted by ScottcOriginally posted by ashantieatonI've been waiting for this game as long many others, almost a year of checking the the forum for updates every couple weeks. I'm a major fan of the P&P game I played as a child and loved it. Couldn't wait to play. Got into the beta a week ago.This game is instanced and I LOVE that. As a former 2 year SWG player I'm so tired of having to spend hour after hour camping a boss for the one in six chance of being the one who gets to loot the body for the best loot. The game is focused on groups but its easy as piss to get in one. The players are older and mature and the conversations are fun and the play is good.The central world is large enough to explore and allows you to move around with all the other players and talk and chat and have fun. I dont see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where I'm going. Does the word Massive mean anything to you? Because it is a Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game, you don't think travel should take a long time in a Massive world? Devs really piss me off, bending the genre just to make mass amounts of cash off people who are used to singleplayer games. "I don't see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where i'm going in a Massively multiplayer game."Once, there was a time when the devs at turbine cared about making a massive and interesting world. They had portal loops that would take you where you needed to go, and a run skill so at higher levels, getting places would be less tedious. honestly what the fuck? Against travelling in a fucking MASSIVELY multiplayer online roleplaying game. If the world is created right, travelling shouldn't be so tedious, it should be interesting. Fuck these stupid watered down versions of MMORPG's... Pretty sure the Massive in MMORPG stands for massive amounts of people NOT massive amounts of land.The massive includes everything, players, content (which includes items, area's to explore, dungeons, etc).In my personal experience (EQ, EQII, CoH, Guild Wars), there has never been an MMO where exploration was fun or practical. In EQII, which had pretty good graphics, you would run around and look at cool things only to run into a mob 20 levels higher than you that would instantly kill you (EQ was the same with less nice graphics, CoH had nothing cool to look at but had the same problem and Guild Wars I didn't play enough to know for sure). Then your body would be stuck in the middle of no where and you had to remember how to get there to get your stuff back. Maybe I was "exploring" wrong, but staying to the area where I could safely kill the mobs or get back to the safe zones if I got in trouble didn't give me a whole lot of space. Basically, you were trying to level so you could move into a new zone or area and see something cool. Also keep in mind, for players with limited time to play, spending time "exploring" to find a dungeon entrance or a quest NPC is not fun at all (this unfortunately contributes to my point about instant gratification, see below). Let me preface the rest of my comment by saying that I haven't yet played DDO, but plan on participating in the preview this weekend. What I have heard about DDO, is that your exploration comes from the variations in the dungeon environments. Some for example are outside, in sewers, etc. So one can look at exploring a new dungeon like exploring a new zone with loot, traps and puzzles in it for you and your group to find without worrying about a mob randomly popping in your location and slaughtering you. Granted, I have also heard that the dungeons in DDO are not as big as zones, nor do they change if you repeat a quest on a different difficulty level. One thing I whole-heartedly agree with you on, is that the MMOs coming out now are watered-down. Particularly when it comes to difficulty. While I don't like a super high level mob popping on me and killing me in one blow as I'm trying to get to an area of my level, I read an article (which I obviously agree with) that makes the point that PC Games in general (not just MMOs, but MMOs in particular) are catering to an audience who wants instant gratification. From what I've heard WoW is the most guilty of this among the MMOs and happens to be the most popular MMO out (surprise,surprise). Mobs are too easy to kill and its too easy to level. You never really struggle for anything and the game never tries to force you to. I have heard that DDO is challenging, that you can't solo it or even duo some quests which I think is great, but only time will tell with that. If you have time on your hands to run your character around a game, then I suggest you find a different one, that's all. I hear that Vanguard is supposed to be more like the original EQ in difficulty and size.
You should try Asheron's Call, they had it so perfectly where you could explore without worrying about getting your head chopped off in one hit. It should still be like that, I never could stand EQ or EQ2 where I was limited to zones as I leveled up....
You should try Asheron's Call, they had it so perfectly where you could explore without worrying about getting your head chopped off in one hit. It should still be like that, I never could stand EQ or EQ2 where I was limited to zones as I leveled up....
Thanks, I'll check it out.
----------------------------- "I find this... distasteful."
I've been waiting for this game as long many others, almost a year of checking the the forum for updates every couple weeks. I'm a major fan of the P&P game I played as a child and loved it. Couldn't wait to play. Got into the beta a week ago. This game is instanced and I LOVE that. As a former 2 year SWG player I'm so tired of having to spend hour after hour camping a boss for the one in six chance of being the one who gets to loot the body for the best loot. The game is focused on groups but its easy as piss to get in one. The players are older and mature and the conversations are fun and the play is good. The central world is large enough to explore and allows you to move around with all the other players and talk and chat and have fun. I dont see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where I'm going. Granted they may be beautiful but I'm always about getting going and doing more action and trading or chatting to players, not just sitting in a vehicle waiting to get to the mission. I ABSOLUTELY agree tho that it would be very cool to be able to plant castles at higher levels, etc. and have your own shops, etc. This was something that was amazing in the P&P game and is lacking here. But these games can't launch as the end all be all for everyone straight away. The missions could use slightly more variety in their traps and environments but Im also a rather low level so imagine these will come in. I am also a big fan of PVP but the P&P game is not really about PVP but playing as a group on a common mission and I like that. I also like that the developers will spend more time developing cooler missions rather than trying to keep player vs player balancing going. The levelling is also at a good pace. After you get the swing of things you move up one rank in about an hour or two at most so your constantly getting new benefits. I've played about 15 hours and I'm still interested and enjoying it and the community thats playing seems to as well for the most part, even tho all these forums are showing people not happy, it doesn't seem that way on the beta servers. I'm looking forward to the live version! Martin - Majere Naj
I've been waiting for this game as long many others, almost a year of checking the the forum for updates every couple weeks. I'm a major fan of the P&P game I played as a child and loved it. Couldn't wait to play. Got into the beta a week ago. This game is instanced and I LOVE that. As a former 2 year SWG player I'm so tired of having to spend hour after hour camping a boss for the one in six chance of being the one who gets to loot the body for the best loot. The game is focused on groups but its easy as piss to get in one. The players are older and mature and the conversations are fun and the play is good. The central world is large enough to explore and allows you to move around with all the other players and talk and chat and have fun. I dont see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where I'm going. Granted they may be beautiful but I'm always about getting going and doing more action and trading or chatting to players, not just sitting in a vehicle waiting to get to the mission. I ABSOLUTELY agree tho that it would be very cool to be able to plant castles at higher levels, etc. and have your own shops, etc. This was something that was amazing in the P&P game and is lacking here. But these games can't launch as the end all be all for everyone straight away. The missions could use slightly more variety in their traps and environments but Im also a rather low level so imagine these will come in. I am also a big fan of PVP but the P&P game is not really about PVP but playing as a group on a common mission and I like that. I also like that the developers will spend more time developing cooler missions rather than trying to keep player vs player balancing going. The levelling is also at a good pace. After you get the swing of things you move up one rank in about an hour or two at most so your constantly getting new benefits. I've played about 15 hours and I'm still interested and enjoying it and the community thats playing seems to as well for the most part, even tho all these forums are showing people not happy, it doesn't seem that way on the beta servers. I'm looking forward to the live version! Martin - Majere Naj
If you are a big fan of the P&P game you need to go back and play a little more. This game is missing "Core Classes and Races"! You can't label somthing D&D without putting at least the core classes and races in. Even some of the more lame D&D games have the core races and classes.
Oh and your little SWG battle system can be kept in SWG. This is not ment for MMO's. It's ment for the single player type game.
If you are a big fan of the P&P game you need to go back and play a little more. This game is missing "Core Classes and Races"! You can't label somthing D&D without putting at least the core classes and races in. Even some of the more lame D&D games have the core races and classes.
Oh and your little SWG battle system can be kept in SWG. This is not ment for MMO's. It's ment for the single player type game.
I think the combat belongs right where it is, in DDO I wouldn't go back to any other combat system. timing block and attack is alot more fun then select and auto attack then push a few skill buttons and pretty much just watch the fight.
its obvious you won't be playing this game so what do you care?
the combat feels nothing like SWG so I don't even no what your griping about anyways.
Peoples gripes are mainly about DnD online´s combat beeing the most watered down combat system i have seen, nothing even remotly like true DnD combat, the baldurs gate realtime combat system would have been the best choice to implement here.
Basicly, DnD is melee hack and slash, mages/sorcerers just spam their most powerfull spell till their mana pool is empty... mana pools in DnD *sigh*
Archery has been nerfed to the point that its useless now, so whats left? yeah, spam click left/right mouse button, realy... its a revolution in gameplay /sarcasm
Originally posted by Kem0sabe Peoples gripes are mainly about DnD online´s combat beeing the most watered down combat system i have seen, nothing even remotly like true DnD combat, the baldurs gate realtime combat system would have been the best choice to implement here. Basicly, DnD is melee hack and slash, mages/sorcerers just spam their most powerfull spell till their mana pool is empty... mana pools in DnD *sigh* Archery has been nerfed to the point that its useless now, so whats left? yeah, spam click left/right mouse button, realy... its a revolution in gameplay /sarcasm
How is point-click-n-wait better than what they have now?
This game has the best combat of any MMO and almost as good as SP sword fighting game ( Demon Stone and the Lotr games come to mind). If you have no appriciation for games that have action oriented combat I feel sorry for you.
In the preview my ranger was owning everyone (and I mean everyone) in terms of kills per mission (and yes, he was using a bow).
At least in the current mmorpg combat system, we have some measure of strategy besides just hacking and slashing your way trough a dungeon, you have more spells, more skills, more choices on what to do, can you say the same about DnD?
Its beyond me how spamming 2/3 spells for 10 levels as a sorcerer/mage is fun, have no doubt about one thing tho, this is a melee game from strat to finish, every other class is an aftertought.
Originally posted by Kem0sabe Peoples gripes are mainly about DnD online´s combat beeing the most watered down combat system i have seen, nothing even remotly like true DnD combat, the baldurs gate realtime combat system would have been the best choice to implement here. Basicly, DnD is melee hack and slash, mages/sorcerers just spam their most powerfull spell till their mana pool is empty... mana pools in DnD *sigh* Archery has been nerfed to the point that its useless now, so whats left? yeah, spam click left/right mouse button, realy... its a revolution in gameplay /sarcasm
well I'm glad they went the root they did. I hate the bulders gate style of combat. it's boring. there was a post in the developers guide about how they tried to have memorized spells but it just did not work. the spell casters would be out of spells 1/10th of the way through the dungeon. It was WoTC that suggested and approved of the spellpoint system. I beleive its an optional rule from The Unearthed Arcana rule book. archery has not been nerfed its been improved. I suggest you login and try your your ranger or whoever is using bow.
Its for sure things can be unbalaced its normal that things will balance themselves out over time. I see nothing but improvements in game as it nears release.
Originally posted by Kem0sabe At least in the current mmorpg combat system, we have some measure of strategy besides just hacking and slashing your way trough a dungeon, you have more spells, more skills, more choices on what to do, can you say the same about DnD? Its beyond me how spamming 2/3 spells for 10 levels as a sorcerer/mage is fun, have no doubt about one thing tho, this is a melee game from strat to finish, every other class is an aftertought.
who's fault is it if players aren't creative enough to use there wizard/sorceror any other way then to spam damage spells. i for one found my other ways to play mine.
some spells are not implemented properly this is a known fact and will get fixed as time goes on welcome to beta.
Originally posted by Kem0sabe Peoples gripes are mainly about DnD online´s combat beeing the most watered down combat system i have seen, nothing even remotly like true DnD combat, the baldurs gate realtime combat system would have been the best choice to implement here. Basicly, DnD is melee hack and slash, mages/sorcerers just spam their most powerfull spell till their mana pool is empty... mana pools in DnD *sigh* Archery has been nerfed to the point that its useless now, so whats left? yeah, spam click left/right mouse button, realy... its a revolution in gameplay /sarcasm
I totally agree with what you say here. Playing DnD Is all about careful planning of the situation and being able to react to what happens. This hack and slash crap has nothing to do with DnD. It should be like Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights.
Originally posted by Kem0sabe Peoples gripes are mainly about DnD online´s combat beeing the most watered down combat system i have seen, nothing even remotly like true DnD combat, the baldurs gate realtime combat system would have been the best choice to implement here. Basicly, DnD is melee hack and slash, mages/sorcerers just spam their most powerfull spell till their mana pool is empty... mana pools in DnD *sigh* Archery has been nerfed to the point that its useless now, so whats left? yeah, spam click left/right mouse button, realy... its a revolution in gameplay /sarcasm
I totally agree with what you say here. Playing DnD Is all about careful planning of the situation and being able to react to what happens. This hack and slash crap has nothing to do with DnD. It should be like Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights.
these games alreasy exit and they are making a neverwinter nights 2 why go the same route. those who like slow turn based combat can play any of these games.
Dungeons and Dragons is about hack and slash, your a fighter or wizard seeking treasure, you fight things thats the premise of the game. granted strategy comes into play. DDO offers the ability to think and plan how you will tackle certain dungeons but it also offers the choice to just run in and spam cast and hack and slash your way through aswell. players choose the later. Its tough to come in and judge the game during 10 trial or stress test players get in and there first instinct is how much xp can i get and how fast. they run through the quests at break neck speeds and then complain there is no immersion. Slow down and play the game.
if click to swing and blocking are not your thing fine nwn2 will be out soon enough everyone can have something they like.
My beta just ended and I played the game probably 6 or 7 days out of my 10 day beta, but had some pretty long game days and ended up at 4.5 level. Does anyone know if the experience was boosted for the beta and will drop down after launch. Its certainly pretty easy to level up to 4. After the launch if the experience stays the same level 4 is reachable in just a few days of medium play, but I can see how once you get to level 6 and 7 it takes considerably longer.
As to the whole hack and slash. I definitely disagree. When I brought a group of level 3's into a level 3 dungeon and played it on hard there is absolutely NO WAY you could take the dungeon by just running around and hitting everything. If you didn't stay organized, used defense spells and had healers working right the entire group would rarely make it through. I also especially like the ambushing creatures in treasure barrels. I only saw it a few times but think it is absolutely the best thing. You think you can keep hacking away and collecting gold from any barrel until you smack one and a fire elemental comes out and starts ripping up your group.
I was also a wizard with 21 intelligence so had a pretty good mana pool but i still had to be smart about when i cast spells and what they were, the harder dungeons had more spread out shrines and getting stuck without any was not uncommon.
I still think the game is really fun. It was cool to get into the marketplace and start doing missions like ravensfall? its outdoors with loads of giants, the creature diversity is really cool. i do wonder about content tho as i started to notice i was doing the same mission a few times because they were offering 4-7x the experience for the same period as other missions. This needs to be spread out more to encourage people to do all the various missions. But balancing is something they'll do I'm sure. I also think they'd better get on opening up levels 10-20 within the first six months or theyre gonna lose high end players. All the pre-order betas like me and the testers before us will rip up to level 10 in the first month or two and then start to bore i think if they don't add them.
I think your thinking of Redwillow in house jerasco. and yes this quest gets run way to many times because the xp reward offered is higher then most other quests. I completely agree if your going to start running quests on hard or elite for sure you need a tight team.
my favorite quest line in the game is Delera's Tomb which is located in the graveyard of house jerasco, although there are great quests all over the place. three barrel cove and shadowdusk isle are great places to adventure.
I guess my comment was that I notice alot of groups I join have trouble slowing down and doing the dungeons at a more enjoyable pace for me. and things have gotten alot tougher in beta 4.5. in 4.0 (which was the beta build of just 2 weeks ago) you could run through the dungeons. many players complained the game was too easy and turbine listened and definately did alot of toughening up aswell as improving the AI. you often could exploit mobs and jump up on a box and range a mob to death and it would do nothing. now most mobs with either throw something at you or climb up on the boxes themselves which is a great improvement. I was very surprised on day one of the 4.5 build when i was fighting a losing battle agianst a perticuly tough troll in redfang, I tried to get so releif so jumped up 3 flights of boxes stacked in the room only to have this huge troll start climbing up after me. great stuff.
Yeah. I totally agree about the pace. The beta testers I tended to group with had done the mission 3, 4 maybe even 5 times. They knew where everything was and I was kinda just along for the ride. There were some SPECTACULAR caves but I'm jumping through them so fast to keep up I'm not really enjoying it. I agree with that completely. And yep, redwillow, your right. Very fun. I did the delera's tomb mission, quite good. I think if they spread the experience around it would be a lot better so your excited to keep doing other quests.
Originally posted by Kem0sabe At least in the current mmorpg combat system, we have some measure of strategy besides just hacking and slashing your way trough a dungeon, you have more spells, more skills, more choices on what to do, can you say the same about DnD? Its beyond me how spamming 2/3 spells for 10 levels as a sorcerer/mage is fun, have no doubt about one thing tho, this is a melee game from strat to finish, every other class is an aftertought.
In all fairness to the game, you can't mindlessly zerg your way through the game any more. With the 4.5 build they just recently implemented, if you go rushing in with your clicky finger, you're going to get your ass handed to you. They seriously upped the challenge and improved AI on many of the enemies.
I played the preorder this weekend. I'm just a casual MMO gamer who plays on the weekend and maybe 1-2 hrs. M-F. I have played WoW, COH, COV, AO(briefly), SWG, etc. I like games simple, interesting and above all, fun. Each game is different, has a strength and weakness. I can determine if I like a game after about 30 minutes. WoW is fun because of the landscape, the storyline and the somewhat simple gameplay. COV and COH have a really cool character creation system. I did not care much for AO, it just seemed a bit above my head and too involved. Thats not to say it's not a good game, just not for me. SWG, well, I love the movies but just could'nt get into the game. DDO, is a game I think I will enjoy. A bit different from WoW in that all quests are dungeons and grouping is almost a must. As soon as I began playing the beta, I knew I would buy the game. I'm just a regular dude who hates reading directions, so if it's possible I learn as I progress in the game. I'm also 40, so I remember the old 80's pnp D&D. I don't recall playing it much, but I did play a few times. My point is, if it's fun without being tedious, the I like it. It's that simple for me.
Comments
When you gain access to the shops to each of the cities houses you can buy magic items that cost 10,000 - 20,000 - 30,000 - etc gold... Also the pawn shops have high priced items also. Plus players sell items directly to other players for various amounts.
1 plat = 10 gold
As you get better gear the repair costs sky-rocket, so does the better food for when you have more hp/sp and don't want to sit in an inn for a bit.
Edit spelling
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
For those of you lacking the fortitude to read the entire thing, it boils down to Ken saying his vision (what he loves) is running the same dungeon over and over. And mastering it.
Mastering a dungeon?
This guy is so NOT a DnD geek.
My issues is that I like mastering my CHARACTER.
He will have you run the same mission on EASY/MEDIUM/HARD. The traps are in the same place. The mobs are in the same place. Everything is in the same place. The mobs have more HP and the treasure drops are better.
Can you say DIABLO?
This one issue is IMHO going to make this game get a big initial response and then people will leave.
It is boring to grind the same dungeon (which you need to do to level enough to go get the other content dungeons/quests)
The game that promised no grinding? Comes with a lot of it.
That makes me sad as a big fan of the franchise. To have so little actually given with the game (no crafting, housing, world exploring, etc) I had hope for much more than this.
this is the most misunderstood and misrepresented quote ever. all anyone ever sees is Ken Troops one opinion. and NOT the line right above that says MORE RANDOM CONTENT it's right there first line of paragraph 4. he explained his view then on line 7 of paragraph 4 explains that they recognize the need for randomness and that they have taken note of what beta testers have said and will be paying more attention to the random element.
the static dungeons in beta are like this on purpose for whatever reason and again is explained in the post.
Devs really piss me off, bending the genre just to make mass amounts of cash off people who are used to singleplayer games. "I don't see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where i'm going in a Massively multiplayer game."
Once, there was a time when the devs at turbine cared about making a massive and interesting world. They had portal loops that would take you where you needed to go, and a run skill so at higher levels, getting places would be less tedious. honestly what the fuck? Against travelling in a fucking MASSIVELY multiplayer online roleplaying game. If the world is created right, travelling shouldn't be so tedious, it should be interesting. Fuck these stupid watered down versions of MMORPG's...
Devs really piss me off, bending the genre just to make mass amounts of cash off people who are used to singleplayer games. "I don't see the benefit in riding around for 15 minutes across landscapes waiting to get where i'm going in a Massively multiplayer game."
Once, there was a time when the devs at turbine cared about making a massive and interesting world. They had portal loops that would take you where you needed to go, and a run skill so at higher levels, getting places would be less tedious. honestly what the fuck? Against travelling in a fucking MASSIVELY multiplayer online roleplaying game. If the world is created right, travelling shouldn't be so tedious, it should be interesting. Fuck these stupid watered down versions of MMORPG's...
Pretty sure the Massive in MMORPG stands for massive amounts of people NOT massive amounts of land.
In my personal experience (EQ, EQII, CoH, Guild Wars), there has never been an MMO where exploration was fun or practical. In EQII, which had pretty good graphics, you would run around and look at cool things only to run into a mob 20 levels higher than you that would instantly kill you (EQ was the same with less nice graphics, CoH had nothing cool to look at but had the same problem and Guild Wars I didn't play enough to know for sure). Then your body would be stuck in the middle of no where and you had to remember how to get there to get your stuff back. Maybe I was "exploring" wrong, but staying to the area where I could safely kill the mobs or get back to the safe zones if I got in trouble didn't give me a whole lot of space. Basically, you were trying to level so you could move into a new zone or area and see something cool. Also keep in mind, for players with limited time to play, spending time "exploring" to find a dungeon entrance or a quest NPC is not fun at all (this unfortunately contributes to my point about instant gratification, see below).
Let me preface the rest of my comment by saying that I haven't yet played DDO, but plan on participating in the preview this weekend. What I have heard about DDO, is that your exploration comes from the variations in the dungeon environments. Some for example are outside, in sewers, etc. So one can look at exploring a new dungeon like exploring a new zone with loot, traps and puzzles in it for you and your group to find without worrying about a mob randomly popping in your location and slaughtering you. Granted, I have also heard that the dungeons in DDO are not as big as zones, nor do they change if you repeat a quest on a different difficulty level.
One thing I whole-heartedly agree with you on, is that the MMOs coming out now are watered-down. Particularly when it comes to difficulty. While I don't like a super high level mob popping on me and killing me in one blow as I'm trying to get to an area of my level, I read an article (which I obviously agree with) that makes the point that PC Games in general (not just MMOs, but MMOs in particular) are catering to an audience who wants instant gratification. From what I've heard WoW is the most guilty of this among the MMOs and happens to be the most popular MMO out (surprise,surprise). Mobs are too easy to kill and its too easy to level. You never really struggle for anything and the game never tries to force you to. I have heard that DDO is challenging, that you can't solo it or even duo some quests which I think is great, but only time will tell with that. If you have time on your hands to run your character around a game, then I suggest you find a different one, that's all. I hear that Vanguard is supposed to be more like the original EQ in difficulty and size.
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"I find this... distasteful."
You should try Asheron's Call, they had it so perfectly where you could explore without worrying about getting your head chopped off in one hit. It should still be like that, I never could stand EQ or EQ2 where I was limited to zones as I leveled up....
You should try Asheron's Call, they had it so perfectly where you could explore without worrying about getting your head chopped off in one hit. It should still be like that, I never could stand EQ or EQ2 where I was limited to zones as I leveled up....
Thanks, I'll check it out.
-----------------------------
"I find this... distasteful."
DELETED
Always do the right thing
Always do the right thing
If you are a big fan of the P&P game you need to go back and play a little more. This game is missing "Core Classes and Races"! You can't label somthing D&D without putting at least the core classes and races in. Even some of the more lame D&D games have the core races and classes.
If you are a big fan of the P&P game you need to go back and play a little more. This game is missing "Core Classes and Races"! You can't label somthing D&D without putting at least the core classes and races in. Even some of the more lame D&D games have the core races and classes.
I think the combat belongs right where it is, in DDO I wouldn't go back to any other combat system. timing block and attack is alot more fun then select and auto attack then push a few skill buttons and pretty much just watch the fight.
its obvious you won't be playing this game so what do you care?
the combat feels nothing like SWG so I don't even no what your griping about anyways.
Peoples gripes are mainly about DnD online´s combat beeing the most watered down combat system i have seen, nothing even remotly like true DnD combat, the baldurs gate realtime combat system would have been the best choice to implement here.
Basicly, DnD is melee hack and slash, mages/sorcerers just spam their most powerfull spell till their mana pool is empty... mana pools in DnD *sigh*
Archery has been nerfed to the point that its useless now, so whats left? yeah, spam click left/right mouse button, realy... its a revolution in gameplay /sarcasm
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
How is point-click-n-wait better than what they have now?
This game has the best combat of any MMO and almost as good as SP sword fighting game ( Demon Stone and the Lotr games come to mind). If you have no appriciation for games that have action oriented combat I feel sorry for you.
In the preview my ranger was owning everyone (and I mean everyone) in terms of kills per mission (and yes, he was using a bow).
At least in the current mmorpg combat system, we have some measure of strategy besides just hacking and slashing your way trough a dungeon, you have more spells, more skills, more choices on what to do, can you say the same about DnD?
Its beyond me how spamming 2/3 spells for 10 levels as a sorcerer/mage is fun, have no doubt about one thing tho, this is a melee game from strat to finish, every other class is an aftertought.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
well I'm glad they went the root they did. I hate the bulders gate style of combat. it's boring. there was a post in the developers guide about how they tried to have memorized spells but it just did not work. the spell casters would be out of spells 1/10th of the way through the dungeon. It was WoTC that suggested and approved of the spellpoint system. I beleive its an optional rule from The Unearthed Arcana rule book. archery has not been nerfed its been improved. I suggest you login and try your your ranger or whoever is using bow.
Its for sure things can be unbalaced its normal that things will balance themselves out over time. I see nothing but improvements in game as it nears release.
who's fault is it if players aren't creative enough to use there wizard/sorceror any other way then to spam damage spells. i for one found my other ways to play mine.
some spells are not implemented properly this is a known fact and will get fixed as time goes on welcome to beta.
these games alreasy exit and they are making a neverwinter nights 2 why go the same route. those who like slow turn based combat can play any of these games.
Dungeons and Dragons is about hack and slash, your a fighter or wizard seeking treasure, you fight things thats the premise of the game. granted strategy comes into play. DDO offers the ability to think and plan how you will tackle certain dungeons but it also offers the choice to just run in and spam cast and hack and slash your way through aswell. players choose the later. Its tough to come in and judge the game during 10 trial or stress test players get in and there first instinct is how much xp can i get and how fast. they run through the quests at break neck speeds and then complain there is no immersion. Slow down and play the game.
if click to swing and blocking are not your thing fine nwn2 will be out soon enough everyone can have something they like.
My beta just ended and I played the game probably 6 or 7 days out of my 10 day beta, but had some pretty long game days and ended up at 4.5 level. Does anyone know if the experience was boosted for the beta and will drop down after launch. Its certainly pretty easy to level up to 4. After the launch if the experience stays the same level 4 is reachable in just a few days of medium play, but I can see how once you get to level 6 and 7 it takes considerably longer.
As to the whole hack and slash. I definitely disagree. When I brought a group of level 3's into a level 3 dungeon and played it on hard there is absolutely NO WAY you could take the dungeon by just running around and hitting everything. If you didn't stay organized, used defense spells and had healers working right the entire group would rarely make it through. I also especially like the ambushing creatures in treasure barrels. I only saw it a few times but think it is absolutely the best thing. You think you can keep hacking away and collecting gold from any barrel until you smack one and a fire elemental comes out and starts ripping up your group.
I was also a wizard with 21 intelligence so had a pretty good mana pool but i still had to be smart about when i cast spells and what they were, the harder dungeons had more spread out shrines and getting stuck without any was not uncommon.
I still think the game is really fun. It was cool to get into the marketplace and start doing missions like ravensfall? its outdoors with loads of giants, the creature diversity is really cool. i do wonder about content tho as i started to notice i was doing the same mission a few times because they were offering 4-7x the experience for the same period as other missions. This needs to be spread out more to encourage people to do all the various missions. But balancing is something they'll do I'm sure. I also think they'd better get on opening up levels 10-20 within the first six months or theyre gonna lose high end players. All the pre-order betas like me and the testers before us will rip up to level 10 in the first month or two and then start to bore i think if they don't add them.
I think your thinking of Redwillow in house jerasco. and yes this quest gets run way to many times because the xp reward offered is higher then most other quests. I completely agree if your going to start running quests on hard or elite for sure you need a tight team.
my favorite quest line in the game is Delera's Tomb which is located in the graveyard of house jerasco, although there are great quests all over the place. three barrel cove and shadowdusk isle are great places to adventure.
I guess my comment was that I notice alot of groups I join have trouble slowing down and doing the dungeons at a more enjoyable pace for me. and things have gotten alot tougher in beta 4.5. in 4.0 (which was the beta build of just 2 weeks ago) you could run through the dungeons. many players complained the game was too easy and turbine listened and definately did alot of toughening up aswell as improving the AI. you often could exploit mobs and jump up on a box and range a mob to death and it would do nothing. now most mobs with either throw something at you or climb up on the boxes themselves which is a great improvement. I was very surprised on day one of the 4.5 build when i was fighting a losing battle agianst a perticuly tough troll in redfang, I tried to get so releif so jumped up 3 flights of boxes stacked in the room only to have this huge troll start climbing up after me. great stuff.