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The reason WoW is 1 size fits all, and why WoW clones fail. The simple things most developers overl
Abuz0r
Member UncommonPosts: 550
Most MMO games put in guided content to take you from the beginning to the end.
The MMO is their story they present to players who decide to log in on their server and take their journey.
A themepark is a themepark until you over-content. WoW is the definition of over-content and therefore over-success.
Most games have a starting area where you begin, and a quest line to follow. WoW has a starting area for almost every race, and for a long time had more quests than you could do at each area. Making sure you found yourself deleting quests because you had out-leveled before finishing all of them.
This act left you with a feeling of leaving something unfinished. That feeling of having something left unfinished is what keeps you coming back to a MMO.
There are some world PvP areas that you don't ever have to go to, there are also some very busy instanced PvP areas, starting from a very early level, if you like to PvP, it is a viable leveling path. You can get all the way to maximum level and do almost no quests.
Ok you get it, there's tons of stuff, why does that matter. It's not the amount of stuff that matters, it's the amount of stuff you have to do to reach the end. The consistent change of scenery, the giving up on a quest chain simply because you've out-leveled it, the missing out on a dungeon because you didn't have time for it.
Re-play-ability. Most people who play WoW have 6 different characters at maximum level. This isn't because they're an obsessed fan-boy, it's because the game makes it so that it's entertaining to do so, it's the different game you make it each time you play. If this is your third tauren and you've done all the tauren quests, you can go to the undead area and do their quests instead.
You could also just PvP to level up.
The crafting system is incredibly complete. Some other games actually have a more important crafting system than WoW, but WoW has it so that people who craft are needed in end game to perform tasks that would be impossible without their presence. Not just creating some crazy item, but using their craft skills in a dungeon.
I haven't played WoW in over 2 years because I don't like being that addicted to a game.
If other games want to replicate the success, which they've been desperately trying and failing for about 10 years, they need to focus on Re-Play-Ability. Nobody really cares about their long typed out quests dialogues. Nobody really cares about the amazing 6D graphics. "Good" graphics are important to make the game playable to everyone, an option of "Amazing" should be a last priority over the content of the game it-self.
There are a lot of amazing niche games on here, but every MMO developer seems to want to replicate the universal success among almost all gamers that WoW has experienced. You can't create a single story line MMO or even dual story-line MMO and expect to be like WoW.
To sum it up, most MMOs are like a book, maybe a book with 2 or 3 endings. WoW is a "Create-your-own-adventure" with about 500 different endings. Instead of long tedious dialogues, the developers spent their time on sheer amounts of options and alternate paths. Opportunities to veer off the path you're on, and giving you that feeling of missing something down the other road.
Comments
I guess i have played a different WoW than you.. because the sheer amount of options and alternate pathes never showed up.
Though.. i played Vanilla, and couldn't stand it very long. Don't get me wrong, it is well made, very polished, even some funny dialogues.. but what lacked was options. It is basicly either do Quests(Twinking), Raid/Instancing or some Battleground/Arenas..
- I don't like Raiding very much.. or Instance runs for that matter
- Battleground/Arenas is more or less the worst pvp you can get as a pvp.. instead of that i play a MOBA and get more
- and Questing get you only that far...
And on a sidenote.. for non crafters the WoW crafting system can be nice.. but for a crafter not so much.
But a lot of people, as it has proved, do like what WoW offered.. but it is by far not 1 size fits all. It is most probably the pinnacle of themepark gaming(Questing, Raiding, Battleground/Arenas) though, but not more.
I played the same WOW as you, Apraxis. I fought my starting area stuff, then went to crossroads to kill zhevra, kill ostrich, get raptor eggs, Echykee, Mankrik's wife, and blah blah blah... same exact routine, same linear path, same limited progression system.
Definitely a fun game with good replayability, but to suggest it's because of the options is silly. If anything, it's the on-rails gameplay and lack of choice (therefore lack of chance to screw anything up) that made it popular.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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You are complaining about WoW being on rails, but you also claim to be playing ESO, the most on rails game I have ever played.
Wow.
For a theme park WoW has by far the most options for leveling. You don't even have to go to crossroads, ever.
So yeah.
There's always something that needs doing in WoW. Other games have lulls in the pace of content. You'll go from leveling really fast to a snails pace halfway in. In WoW, you get lost in all the things there are to do that you forget that you're leveling. If you get bored of doing quests, there's pet battling, PvP, crafting, exploration (lots of areas that quests don't take you), and even while questing there is a lot of funny moments that Blizzard throws in there. Funniest moment in any game for me was in BC, the first time I had to walk a felhound because he ate the keys to a shredder. Then I had to dig through its poo, to find the keys lol.
Another thing that keeps people playing WoW is nostalgia and there's a feeling of "why play anything else?" This is one reason why I think WoD will do so well. Getting to go to Draenor and see it in a 3D world will be awesome for those, like myself, who've been playing Warcraft for almost 20 years. Even if you didn't get to play WC1, then you still have the nostalgia of going to see what outland used to be.
Just a side note, Blizz will release WoD on Nov 23, it's the 20th anniversary of Warcraft: Orcs & Humans, and the 10th anniversary of WoW. Blizzard is a sentimental company like that, they can't just pass up a date like that without doing something awesome.
last time i went back to wow, there was only one real means of leveling: the dungeon finder.
only time you saw people walking around past level 20ish was folks gathering craftables.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
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The thing that wow vanilla definately did right was creating a sense of a world with number of distinct starting and levelling areas. In that sense it had more choice than most linear themeparks, but it was more like branches in a train track than a free choice.
However, I still remember how epic it felt when you first travelled from the Nelf area to SW. Few games have managed to replicate that feeling.
Note: I haven't really played WOW for any length of time since TBC as it turned into a lobby game.
I am going to disagree in principle, to something mentioned by the first two replies to the OP's thread. They are entitled to their opinion and that is fine, but I am wondering if they only really tried one leveling path. I say that because WoW really does let you start a character in one of several places or swap to the play area of a different race whenever you want.
Anyway, what WoW did reminds me of a science show comparing the basketball player Michael Jordan and Cheetahs. They analyzed what makes them so dominant in their respective environments by breaking down every little strength each had. And each of the strengths were measured to be slightly above average, but it was the total combination of all the strengths in one package that allows them to have long-term success at their professions(playing basketball or chasing down a small kill.)
I bring this up because I think WoW did that in 2005 with all the seemingly little decisions they made. Everything from keeping the graphics low to (increases the size of their audience), to making it super friendly for non MMO gamers, to all the Easter eggs and cultural jokes they put in the game. And I think it was also a little luck with the timing.
Now fast forward to present day and compare all the new MMOs to WoW. A new MMO has to compete with 10 years of content, 4 continents, 2 additional classes (Monk and Death Knight) in a game that already had 6, thousands of quests, fluff systems like battle pets, casual raiding for people who like to solo or don't have a guild (LFR gave me some of the worst experiences of my life). PvP, Arenas, etc... You may not llike WoW which I think is fine but that is quite a competitor to take on for a new product right out of the starting gate.
broken (fixed it)
WoW's philosophy after TBC was that crafting was for leveling and then to take you to the doorstep of endgame but not through the door.
As if that philosophy wasn't bad enough, it didn't work. Problem is that you level too fast to need crafting for leveling purposes. The crafting does not support that process.
Once at cap, there are means that are faster and easier to get better gear that what you can craft. (Timeless Isle) And now with RNG factors where you don't even have any control over the item you create, it's pointless to craft. The only thing you need are the skill points for the min/max factor. You don't need any recipies beyond what it takes to level the craft to get your stat bonuses.
Um... no the reasons are simple.
1.) Nostaligia - Many people have a connection to the game. Having spent a good deal of time playing an MMO, your far more likely to go back to it.
2.) Friends - Those friends who might be revisiting Wow due to those nostaligia feelings will usher others back to play as well even if its just temporary.
3.) Investment- The feeling you have earned a lot on the game and don't want to give it up. People who spent a great deal of time have lots on their account that gives a sense of investment, something making the game far more likely to come back to. Its a feeling granted blizzard has done a good job messing up a bit and taking away this feeling quite a bit, but its still there none the less. Factors a lot into the nostaligia catagory but its a factor that helps influence the need to return.
Those are the main factors. Look at many Old MMos out there. A lot of people still come back to old games people spent much time in back when there weren't hundreds of games popping out daily. Sure they don't have the numbers wow does, but those games manage to have larger communities that actively revisit the games and fill the game to a decent extent.
There aren't any more "new" players in WoW than in any other new MMO. People aren't saying, "Hmm, WoW or Wildstar?" when they decide to play an MMO for the very first time. If you excluded all the people who have played WoW at least 1 expansion or more when WoD is released, the numbers actually trying WoW for the very first time would be on par with any other MMO out there (if not lower because of the level gap).
All you are basically saying is WoW has the most repeat customers. Not new customers. Some people buy Ford just because it's a Ford. Doesn't matter if a Dodge is better or cheaper or whatever. Habit is habit. Is Dodge failing because of Ford? No they coexist.
So in reality, no WoW clone has ever failed. WoW exists, the clones exist. When you see a game shut down, literally turn off the lights, pack up the servers, and move on, then it has failed. Right now, only a very small number of games have done that. True failures.
I've had better crafting experiences in other games for sure. Crafting doesn't make or break a game. Re-play-ability makes games, boredom breaks games.
The #1 thing that kills games and makes people log out permanently is when they reach the point where they want to try a different type of character, create an alt, log in, play 15 minutes. They then realize they are having to completely repeat what they already did and instead of going on an adventure, they're running an obstacle course. An obstacle course they've already beaten. The focus shifts from the adventure to how fast can I zerg through it to get back to where I was.
Most people play the second character for an hour or so then perma-quit. WoW gives you the option of a completely alternate leveling experience. You don't follow the same path each time.
Since we are making comparisons with ESO.
It is a shame that a MMO which released 9 years ago had more alternative paths to level and content compared to a AAA MMO released in 2014.
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WoW is to the MMORPG genre what Facebook is to social media. It's not necessarily the best platform but it is the most popular and people will flock to it just because of that (because my friends play it etc.)
There really has to be a complete overhaul to the genre, like we saw going from EQ to WoW to get people to move away from it. Much like facebook, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I agree with most of your post OP. Except maybe the crafting, as I just felt it was lackluster in execution. The good gear you could make was top heavy, meaning the progression system of crafting was completely pointless as the items and gear on the way to cap weren't worth selling or wearing as questing rewards and xp gain crushed that aspect.
Back to the rest of your post thoug, that I agree with. I've noticed this about older games than WoW, like EQ and FFXI(especially FFXI as I've resubbed to it again) as they also have tons of stuff to do that you are never "done" even at level cap. More so in FFXI where it's one character any job any time with so much to unlock and do it would take years, if it's even been done, to see everything the game has to offer. Funny too, because WoW was modeled after EQ and FFXI was modeled after EQ, they just upgraded graphics and put their own IP/spin on the EQ model and look how well they did. I see a pattern here...
Some games come close but miss out on the sheer volume or variety, not sure which, maybe both. Just another reason for devs to maybe go back and recapture that old magic from those games WoW modeled.
Screw WoW clones. I think ArcheAge will destroy all other (recent) MMOs. It does what WoW did, i.e. take bits of piece of the current MMOs that are good and combined it. ArcheAge takes a bit of ThemePark elements, some sandbox elements and create a truly remarkable MMO.
Only bad thing is that it is in Trion's hands, in the West, and they are taking way, way too long to release it. Shame.
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I agree 100%. Its a real true Open world tons of options quests, nice world, tons of places to visit and experience. Create your own story, game. Thats why games like SWTOR are quite boring. They are like singleplayer games. Not much content. Just enought quests to reach endgame. Story you remember. And then there is not much more to experience. Thats why all people were over with this game in like 2 months. And keep coming back to WoW.
People that created BC and Vanila WoW were masters. They knew how to create a game that can last. Filled their game with little things. That keep you entertained and interested in the world, and keep coming back. LITTLE THINGS, like secret places, quests, items. I remember WoW having more of them than all of the modern MMOS combined.
This days the priority seems to be good graphics and tons of boring voiced dialoges that noone cares about. And then you see games failing over and over again, each year. SAD.
OP, you know your thing
You can't call it a starting area when Wow drops you down in the middle of a normal piece of game map.The difference between starting in a giant city like Freeport or SanDoria is miles more work and effort than what Blizzard does with starting area.
IMO you should start in a city,that is your home town and where an adventure should start,not in the middle of nowhere with no rhyme or reason,that is just a lazy effort by Blizzard.Not only that but Blizzard starts you right at a few npc's with yellow markers and that is the only reason those npc are there just to have a yellow marker over their head to start you on a connect the dots path.
The content in wow never felt overwhelming it carried you directly through that zone in a hand holding fashion.
There is NEVER the feeling of something unfinished because they never feel like a real quest but more so just a pattern following yellow markers around,in reality the npc doesn't even need be there.
An adventure is what you make of it along with some plausible believable game play.Example the more you use your weapon the more you should become skilled with it,not more skilled just because you leveled up.Also if you want to do a quest it should be up to you and NEVER give xp towards your class.
Without going into further because obviously even after all these years so many just don't understand the term MMO and RPG,bottom line is Wow presents a NON mmorpg but more so a railroading effect of following yellow markers around.
Even their instances have nothing to do with Lore or the actual game,they are just mechanics to force players into co-op mode for the reward nothing else than the reward it presents.
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WoW simply offers more than nearly all other MMORPGs.
It has more starting zones than most other MMORPGs. More races and professions. It gives you more choices on where to quest too. The pay to win aspect is much lower than in most other MMORPGs as well.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
In vanilla wow you could grind mobs to level up. I actually did it for some of the levels. You could quest , grind mobs, run dungeons. You also had an absolute minimum of 3 zones per level range sometimes more. That's enough choice if you ask me.
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WoW offers casual PvE content and polish... and that's about it. If you like meaningful PvP, you'd best go elsewhere. Same for crafting, housing, raiding, and dungeons.
WoW's raids/dungeons are tiny, linear, gear based, and instanced. Polished, but still weak content wise.
What WoW offers is big brand name recognition, and the knowledge that Blizzard is taking a nation's worth of wealth and NOT reinvesting it into WoW, because if they were, the game would be on par with Eve by now.
Hooh boy, this is very inaccurate.
First, you're wrong, in Vanilla WoW quests were REQUIRED if you wanted the right gear/to advance at any sane pace. Sure, you CAN mob grind in any MMO, it just takes bout 50 times longer than questing, and you're going to be doing it alone.
In EQ, the grinding at least encouraged you to play with other people and be social, because you all had a better time for it.
The "only difference"? My first MMO was DAoC, and I see WORLDS of difference between EQ and WoW, even though one was based on the other. EQ was just about as far as a themepark could be from "on rails".
I tend to agree with your comment, given what's been happening recently with the exodus due to the content drought. This isn't just players taking a break. This time they are annoyed with Blizzard.
I'd lean towards there only being two reasons why WoW draws players back from newer MMOs.
1) Time committed to ones character
2) The community they are a member of. I can pretty much guarantee not all moved to the other game and they were missed.
It's not hard to find a better MMO than WoW, at the moment.