Originally posted by DMKanoOP - SoE is not going to spend 100mil to recreate something that has less than 100-200k players even interested in, the active playerbase after a month would most likely be around 50k players.Expensive MMO projects need a huge playerbase.Can't compare that to a small budge game.
to be honest....f8ck sony.No longer are the days where millions of players are needed to fund a game we like.extreemly small teams (like 10 or less developers) are creating games in mass that people want. Such small budget games do not need millions of players to cover the cost.Its a great day for gaming, a bad day for large gaming companies
+1, Bravo, CHEERS!Seriously this is the point, big companys are starting to be overshadowed by the little guys. If Divinty Devs can make a game based off a Turn-Based RPG genre that was popular in 90-fucking-5, there is no reason we can see Classic MMO gaming make the rise once more. Leave out the fact Im in love with the idea of a modern EQ and just think of making a game Liken to that, and you have a perfect niche game with a proven fanbase. And please, dont cite Pantheon as an excuse to why this wouldnt work out. Panth is headed by Brad Mcquaid, who since Vanguard has had a bullseye on his back and a cloud over his head to the gaming world. Some sad individuals will never let that man rest *cough ReROLLED cough*.If there was a game being made like classic EQ right now it would sell, it would turn a profit, and the fact that SOE doesnt realize that further shows their lack of knowledge about their fanbase, old and new.
Your comparing apples to oranges and as already pointed out in EQ's case your math simply doesn't add up. As to Brad how many breaks does the man need? He names his own salary, decided when he'll get advances took 40% of the developement fund for Pantheon to pay hiself without telling anyone else on the team till they found out he had gutted the games funding and there was nothing left. Seriously though you want EQ new so keep sending your money to Brad, I wish you best of luck.
a game where all you do is drive a truck in the mud picking up wood sold 100,000 copies in something like 6 weeks.
and this game where you drive a truck through mud to pick up wood is a subscription game like EQ1? If not then how are you not comparing apples to oranges.
if as you are saying the smart AAA companies are paying attention then the indies will be in trouble as the AAA companies should be able to produce the same quality game far quicker and cheaper then the indies. However since big companies also generally look for HUGE profit margins I'm guessing the indies that are happy with a million in profit are safe fro the triple A companies that want at least 50 million in profit, (just MO)
Extrapolation
and you are just selecting what you want out of the story. You are not adding that its made by something like 3 people, that it had no advertising and that its only 6 weeks.
discard stories like this if you want and continue to play the games you love.
I know I will
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
A well done game which features challenging open world gameplay would be profitable. The business 101 bean counters who believe there isn't a large enough audience for such a game have forgotten that this genre is a form of art. Genius has the power to create and expand markets.
Hopefully the "money people" will learn how to let the artists work.
Vanguard was EQ1 with better graphics - it was a great game (I played it almost 2 years) - but it didn't have many players interested in it.
The point is ANY EQ1 type mmorpg with *better* graphics than EQ1 is going to cost over 40million today - and it's going to take a small dev team 5+ years to get it completed.
Do I believe that there is a market for EQ1 classic game - YES - 100%
Do I believe that it can be made for a profit - nope - and that's the problem.
Again comparing Divinity with an actual MMORPG like EQ1 - night and day, one can be made by a small dev team on a tight budget, the other cannot (especially with decent graphics)
It didn't have many players because all the cool features were so disjointed from the game it didn't feel right to play.
One word CLUNKY!
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Divinity: Origional Sin is awesome.. one of the best rpgs I have played in a very very long time.. remids me a lot of baldur's gate series..
But its a lot more than baldur's gate with jsut new graphics there are a ton of new gameplay features in this as well so it not only brings back the old school feeling but also improves upon it with modern features but in donig so does not lose anything.
So its not just an old school clone.. so saying maknig EQ with new graphics = win is just wrong.
Some old things are good, some old things are bad, some new things are good, some new things are bad... If one retro(ish) game is successful, that doesn't mean all of them will be or should be. I, for one, am really pleased classic WRPGs have made a comeback, but am not particularly interested in an EQ clone. Based on my observations, I'm far from the only one who thinks this way.
Some old things are good, some old things are bad, some new things are good, some new things are bad... If one retro(ish) game is successful, that doesn't mean all of them will be or should be. I, for one, am really pleased classic WRPGs have made a comeback, but am not particularly interested in an EQ clone. Based on my observations, I'm far from the only one who thinks this way.
I'd say you are not only one of the people thinking an updated EQ1 is a bad idea. I would say that the majority of MMO players would agree. An updated EQ1 would be a niche title at best. Once people took off their rose colored glasses, they would understand why. Good luck doing all the things people "loved" in the old days like constant grouping and grinding for days. I'm sure the new generation of mmos players would give the game 5 mins and uninstall it. If the mmo could survive on 50k-80k subs, then so be it. But, I doubt anyone making an mmo wants that low of a number. I'm not saying they all want to have WoW numbers, but I'm sure SWTOR numbers are not far fetched as an expectation.
Selling a game, and convincing people to keep playing said game are two VERY different things. I already have heard from several people who bought Divinity that it's gotten very boring and slow as they go on they find less desire to keep playing. Translate that into an MMO and it spells DOOM.
Single player games have a much much much easier task. They need only convince a player to buy the game, then their job is largely done. MMOs need to sell the game and convince you to keep playing for a long time if not forever!
Some old things are good, some old things are bad, some new things are good, some new things are bad... If one retro(ish) game is successful, that doesn't mean all of them will be or should be. I, for one, am really pleased classic WRPGs have made a comeback, but am not particularly interested in an EQ clone. Based on my observations, I'm far from the only one who thinks this way.
I'd say you are not only one of the people thinking an updated EQ1 is a bad idea. I would say that the majority of MMO players would agree. An updated EQ1 would be a niche title at best. Once people took off their rose colored glasses, they would understand why. Good luck doing all the things people "loved" in the old days like constant grouping and grinding for days. I'm sure the new generation of mmos players would give the game 5 mins and uninstall it. If the mmo could survive on 50k-80k subs, then so be it. But, I doubt anyone making an mmo wants that low of a number. I'm not saying they all want to have WoW numbers, but I'm sure SWTOR numbers are not far fetched as an expectation.
Yeah, people easily forget. It was all so new back then and that was where most of the excitement came from. There are very good reasons why things changed. So many people wanted to solo back then, it was a constant topic. People didn't want down time, that too was a constant complaint. People wanted to ADVENTURE and not sit in one spot killing the same mobs as they spawn over and over until you out level them and move on.
I'm not saying the new MMOs are perfect, far from it and there are certainly some concepts we should go back to. But EQ1 with better graphics would absolutely not be fun for me to play anymore, nor for a lot of people.
OP - SoE is not going to spend 100mil to recreate something that has less than 100-200k players even interested in, the active playerbase after a month would most likely be around 50k players.
Expensive MMO projects need a huge playerbase.
Can't compare that to a small budge game.
to be honest....f8ck sony.
No longer are the days where millions of players are needed to fund a game we like.
extreemly small teams (like 10 or less developers) are creating games in mass that people want. Such small budget games do not need millions of players to cover the cost.
Its a great day for gaming, a bad day for large gaming companies
+1, Bravo, CHEERS!
Seriously this is the point, big companys are starting to be overshadowed by the little guys. If Divinty Devs can make a game based off a Turn-Based RPG genre that was popular in 90-fucking-5, there is no reason we can see Classic MMO gaming make the rise once more.
Leave out the fact Im in love with the idea of a modern EQ and just think of making a game Liken to that, and you have a perfect niche game with a proven fanbase.
And please, dont cite Pantheon as an excuse to why this wouldnt work out. Panth is headed by Brad Mcquaid, who since Vanguard has had a bullseye on his back and a cloud over his head to the gaming world. Some sad individuals will never let that man rest *cough ReROLLED cough*.
If there was a game being made like classic EQ right now it would sell, it would turn a profit, and the fact that SOE doesnt realize that further shows their lack of knowledge about their fanbase, old and new.
Some old things are good, some old things are bad, some new things are good, some new things are bad... If one retro(ish) game is successful, that doesn't mean all of them will be or should be. I, for one, am really pleased classic WRPGs have made a comeback, but am not particularly interested in an EQ clone. Based on my observations, I'm far from the only one who thinks this way.
I'd say you are not only one of the people thinking an updated EQ1 is a bad idea. I would say that the majority of MMO players would agree. An updated EQ1 would be a niche title at best. Once people took off their rose colored glasses, they would understand why. Good luck doing all the things people "loved" in the old days like constant grouping and grinding for days. I'm sure the new generation of mmos players would give the game 5 mins and uninstall it. If the mmo could survive on 50k-80k subs, then so be it. But, I doubt anyone making an mmo wants that low of a number. I'm not saying they all want to have WoW numbers, but I'm sure SWTOR numbers are not far fetched as an expectation.
Yeah, people easily forget. It was all so new back then and that was where most of the excitement came from. There are very good reasons why things changed. So many people wanted to solo back then, it was a constant topic. People didn't want down time, that too was a constant complaint. People wanted to ADVENTURE and not sit in one spot killing the same mobs as they spawn over and over until you out level them and move on.
I'm not saying the new MMOs are perfect, far from it and there are certainly some concepts we should go back to. But EQ1 with better graphics would absolutely not be fun for me to play anymore, nor for a lot of people.
If you remember, what makes you think that other people don't ? I remember perfectly well the game I was playing back then, and most of EQ mechanics is what I am looking for in a game now.
Even if I have less time to play, it doesn't mean that everything I do have to be trivial.
Yet a game that is essentially EQ Classic with better graphics is out of the question, wont sell well...
MMO Fan Logic wins again!
How much did the game cost to make? Two million dollars? I'm not knocking the game, it looks awesome, but at that development cost "paying for itself" isn't that big a deal.
I would like to see a really good isometric with moveable camera MMORPG though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Selling a game, and convincing people to keep playing said game are two VERY different things. I already have heard from several people who bought Divinity that it's gotten very boring and slow as they go on they find less desire to keep playing. Translate that into an MMO and it spells DOOM.
Really? I was thinking of giving the game a try.
I guess i would stick to ARPGs like incredible adv of van helsing 2 instead.
Comments
Extrapolation
and you are just selecting what you want out of the story. You are not adding that its made by something like 3 people, that it had no advertising and that its only 6 weeks.
discard stories like this if you want and continue to play the games you love.
I know I will
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
A well done game which features challenging open world gameplay would be profitable. The business 101 bean counters who believe there isn't a large enough audience for such a game have forgotten that this genre is a form of art. Genius has the power to create and expand markets.
Hopefully the "money people" will learn how to let the artists work.
It didn't have many players because all the cool features were so disjointed from the game it didn't feel right to play.
One word CLUNKY!
Divinity: Origional Sin is awesome.. one of the best rpgs I have played in a very very long time.. remids me a lot of baldur's gate series..
But its a lot more than baldur's gate with jsut new graphics there are a ton of new gameplay features in this as well so it not only brings back the old school feeling but also improves upon it with modern features but in donig so does not lose anything.
So its not just an old school clone.. so saying maknig EQ with new graphics = win is just wrong.
played game now 80+ hour and still cant stop playing game. hook me harder then skyrim.
hope they make some money with sales:)
Some old things are good, some old things are bad, some new things are good, some new things are bad... If one retro(ish) game is successful, that doesn't mean all of them will be or should be. I, for one, am really pleased classic WRPGs have made a comeback, but am not particularly interested in an EQ clone. Based on my observations, I'm far from the only one who thinks this way.
I'd say you are not only one of the people thinking an updated EQ1 is a bad idea. I would say that the majority of MMO players would agree. An updated EQ1 would be a niche title at best. Once people took off their rose colored glasses, they would understand why. Good luck doing all the things people "loved" in the old days like constant grouping and grinding for days. I'm sure the new generation of mmos players would give the game 5 mins and uninstall it. If the mmo could survive on 50k-80k subs, then so be it. But, I doubt anyone making an mmo wants that low of a number. I'm not saying they all want to have WoW numbers, but I'm sure SWTOR numbers are not far fetched as an expectation.
I bought it and all I don't like is the turn based combat,ill never buy a turn based combat game again its boring.
its not strategy its boring.
Selling a game, and convincing people to keep playing said game are two VERY different things. I already have heard from several people who bought Divinity that it's gotten very boring and slow as they go on they find less desire to keep playing. Translate that into an MMO and it spells DOOM.
Single player games have a much much much easier task. They need only convince a player to buy the game, then their job is largely done. MMOs need to sell the game and convince you to keep playing for a long time if not forever!
Yeah, people easily forget. It was all so new back then and that was where most of the excitement came from. There are very good reasons why things changed. So many people wanted to solo back then, it was a constant topic. People didn't want down time, that too was a constant complaint. People wanted to ADVENTURE and not sit in one spot killing the same mobs as they spawn over and over until you out level them and move on.
I'm not saying the new MMOs are perfect, far from it and there are certainly some concepts we should go back to. But EQ1 with better graphics would absolutely not be fun for me to play anymore, nor for a lot of people.
Amen brother !! preach it !
If you remember, what makes you think that other people don't ? I remember perfectly well the game I was playing back then, and most of EQ mechanics is what I am looking for in a game now.
Even if I have less time to play, it doesn't mean that everything I do have to be trivial.
How much did the game cost to make? Two million dollars? I'm not knocking the game, it looks awesome, but at that development cost "paying for itself" isn't that big a deal.
I would like to see a really good isometric with moveable camera MMORPG though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Really? I was thinking of giving the game a try.
I guess i would stick to ARPGs like incredible adv of van helsing 2 instead.