I wouldn't. I prefer quality (more fun) than quantity (longer game).
I've had the privilege of finding both in the same game on two separate occasions. I got ya beat.
Oh, i don't dispute random luck will sometimes get you both .. but why bother why there are so many short quality games to enjoy?
I prefer to play 2 shorter quality games than one long one .... because i get variety on top of quality.
Here's a hint: it's not one or the other; just because I play some games long term, doesn't mean I do not indulge in the "lite" disposable variety as well.
Gaming is a big buffet, no reason whatsoever to spend all your dinner time at the salad bar
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I wouldn't. I prefer quality (more fun) than quantity (longer game).
I've had the privilege of finding both in the same game on two separate occasions. I got ya beat.
Oh, i don't dispute random luck will sometimes get you both .. but why bother why there are so many short quality games to enjoy?
I prefer to play 2 shorter quality games than one long one .... because i get variety on top of quality.
Here's a hint: it's not one or the other; just because I play some games long term, doesn't mean I do not indulge in the "lite" disposable variety as well.
Gaming is a big buffet, no reason whatsoever to spend all your dinner time at the salad bar
Exactly .. no reason whatsoever to eat just steak day in and day out even if it is good ... a sample of steak, lobster, shrimp, .. heck .. even different cuts of steak will be better (for me).
I wouldn't. I prefer quality (more fun) than quantity (longer game).
I've had the privilege of finding both in the same game on two separate occasions. I got ya beat.
Oh, i don't dispute random luck will sometimes get you both .. but why bother why there are so many short quality games to enjoy?
I prefer to play 2 shorter quality games than one long one .... because i get variety on top of quality.
Here's a hint: it's not one or the other; just because I play some games long term, doesn't mean I do not indulge in the "lite" disposable variety as well.
Gaming is a big buffet, no reason whatsoever to spend all your dinner time at the salad bar
Exactly .. no reason whatsoever to eat just steak day in and day out even if it is good ... a sample of steak, lobster, shrimp, .. heck .. even different cuts of steak will be better (for me).
I'm confused, is steak the genre? Meaning sirloin would be, say, TOR? Or are we going with lobster is the TOR? Would the mashed potatoes be crafting? Green beans, PvP?
By giving me content and stuff to chase in varying features to make me keep coming back and then when a year passes launching an expansion that adds to it and increases the cap giving even more to chase and progress through on multiple areas.
An example of this, in a game that is still alive and kicking, is FFXI. I literally have a plethora of things/goals to chase/tackle on a daily basis:
1. Leveling up your job/class - a given, but then being able to level any and all on one character instead of the other way around.
2. Unique combat role per class that grows through all of it's leveling.
3. Tie in Weapon Skills per weapon that need to be skilled up and unlocked, as well as some quested for at cap.
4. Side quests that build reputation and give interesting items and money and maps.
5. Maps, some bought, some found, some quested, but not having one makes the game a huge challenge.
6. Make zones dangerous and alive.
7. Put awesome main storylines in that also help progress your character with money, and gates to other areas.
8. Unlocking other jobs/classes via quests.
9. Crafting with it's multitude of quests and recipes and milestones.
10. Unlocking waypoints and faster travel options yet still making it difficult to get to certain areas, very remote areas, keeping the dangerous feel of the world alive.
11. Housing and the vast amount of collection options that also enhance other gameplay a la xp increase, money increase, placing trophies, adding gardening to it, etc.
12. Class/job quests for specific weapons and gear.
13. Unique and multiple party style content from major story boss fights, to smaller party bossfights, to dungeons to raids and so on.
I'm going to stop because I could literally keep going, that's how deep FFXI is and is why I think it's still around. Granted, I would change some things, add quality of life things, modernize it, add colections like EQ2 has or Rift's artifacts. Add minions and mounts to collect, achievments to chase with substantial rewards(again, Rift does this well) PVP in many various forms from arena to battlegrounds to large scale. Add public quests/events or roaming events like rift has, so many things, so many ways to grow the game through the years and keep people invested and coming back.
I look at what I just wrote and then consider current games like Wildstar or ESO and I see them being very one dimensional. Quest or PVP to cap and then run raids or dungeons for gear with some crafting and maybe housing thrown in. Where is my investment and living in a world? Where is my immersion and multitude of progression paths to choose to tackle on any given day?
Simple: Hire more programmers than developpers. Developpers make it look great, but great looks last for a few hours at best. Then it is all programming ability in refreshing the user experience. So for each new zone with a developper game, users go "WOW THIS IS GREAT"... but after 2 hours they need to be moving on, or else! With programmers, the experience is refreshed and that can happen basically in between fights.
Programmers can create things that will keep the user engaged with the game. Addons, APIs, Custom Items, etc. Once a group blows through designer content, after 5 runs, it gets boring fast. WoW is still working mainly because when faced with quitting, users can refresh their experience with addons. The main negative with WoW is that players are forced to find competent players to play with because their "bosses" are nothing more than synchronised dancing, but there once was a time when you had to pay attention to everything! If a game uses numbers as a difficulty setting, it will stale. Now for WoW these problems only really started mid-BC, but for most games, including new releases, they are their defining factor, so they really are giving themselves no chance to succeed.
Furthermore, programmers can actually enable more classes and more mechanics in a game. That too will refresh the user experience. Just different roles arent enough and if it is problematic to respec, then people will get bummed out having to start over. If a game could make it so that each class felt different without being gimped and useless compared to others, then they would get an instant loyal following just because players could refresh their whole experience with a click if they allowed characters to change class.
So what I would do: Fire a lot of people, especially those so-called leads. Those idiots are killing MMO gaming. Sadly, you better get used to cash shops, that's what eyecandy rakes in and businesses need to make money and bad apples will get as much money as soon as possible to save their jobs.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
I personally like "Fresh" servers, e.g., fresh economy, no twinks, no reputation, the feeling of "launch", etc. I'd like to see a MMO do something similar to the old Diablo 2 Ladder system, where they ultimately cycle and refresh one of their two servers.
Server A is the main server. Server B starts up. After 6m-1y, Server B characters are transferred to Server A. Server B then resets and is now a completely new and fresh server again.
7. Put awesome main storylines in that also help progress your character with money, and gates to other areas.
You had some good points, but have to disagree with this one. You're either in a story or a world, not both.
Really? Because the game I gave as an example has both and it does it astoundingly well. Real life has both. Not sure why you think it can't have both in a virtual one...
Why do people usually drop a regular MMO after 3 to 4 months? The answer is they've burned through everything the game has to offer by then, and/or the core logistics of the tasks/events that someone can do in the MMO is identical to nearly every other MMO out there. So either you need to keep blasting out new content for them to munch through (at a rate that will drive you into the dirt very quickly), or give them the tools they need to make a LOT of content for themselves at will that isn't just isolated fluff...it has to have a real impact on the rest of the game world. You'll have to give them those kinds of tools for it to really last.
May be because most players like to play new games? They don't have to burn through all the content to leave and try something new.
Keep in mind, when I say "content" I don't mean every possible level and every possible raid. I'm talking about the core set of activities that an MMO offers.
For most themepark MMOs, within 3 to 4 months nearly every semi-regular player will have tried most if not all of the various types of PvE (regular levelling, raids, grouping etc), PvP of all types, crafting and guild mechanics, whether they got to the max character level or not. They have seen all of the core content, all of the ideas that the MMO has brought to the table, so any more gameplay for them will be pure repetition of the same thing just with different visuals and everyone will be at higher levels. So they leave to go to a new MMO and see if it brings any new kinds of ideas to the table (which they usually don't).
7. Put awesome main storylines in that also help progress your character with money, and gates to other areas.
You had some good points, but have to disagree with this one. You're either in a story or a world, not both.
Really? Because the game I gave as an example has both and it does it astoundingly well. Real life has both. Not sure why you think it can't have both in a virtual one...
Canned story lines just don't do it in a MMORPG. In fact, they limit the immersion, interaction, and meaningfulness of gameplay.
Now, this is not to say "meta-stories" cannot work. For example, you could have a time when there is some kind of Dark Elf invasion across the realm, and as long as everyone shares the same reality, be they in the same time and place, this is just fine.
Make no mistake, lore, meta-story, faction, etc... are great, and important ingredients to an MMORPG.
Personal, pre-fabricated storyline paths, however, have sent many a AAA MMORPG to the bargain bin, and for good reason. Personal storylines are for single player RPG's, and rather canned and meaningless even in those.
I completely disagree due to the fact that every MMO I've ever played that I didn't enjoy, it wasn't due to the story. Ever. Matter of fact, I can't even find that argument anywhere on the internet either for a game not succeeding or tanking. It's always about the gameplay or lack there of. You might argue that focusing on story detracted from the gameplay development, but I would blame bad development and design as opposed to blaming the actual stories.
Not to mention the fact that I presented story as just one facet of many that has to be present in an MMORPG in order to make it last. Not by itself but in conjunction with all the other aspects and features I mentioned.
Sandbox : that is the only answer. create a massive hidden grind, allow players to host player driven events and players will login every single day like suckers without even realizing they are being duped.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
7. Put awesome main storylines in that also help progress your character with money, and gates to other areas.
You had some good points, but have to disagree with this one. You're either in a story or a world, not both.
I will say ditch the world, and focus on the story then.
Then you might as well punch you ticket and report to some single player RPG forum. MMORPG's are not for you.
nah .. MMORPGs are like single player RPGs nowadays and i play them as such. For example, i enjoyed marvel heroes for 96 hours as a ARPG with marvel characters, and I haven't grouped even once yet.
I am here pecisely because MMORPGs are more like single player RPGs. Otherwise, you think I would have come back to the genre?
Comments
Here's a hint: it's not one or the other; just because I play some games long term, doesn't mean I do not indulge in the "lite" disposable variety as well.
Gaming is a big buffet, no reason whatsoever to spend all your dinner time at the salad bar
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Exactly .. no reason whatsoever to eat just steak day in and day out even if it is good ... a sample of steak, lobster, shrimp, .. heck .. even different cuts of steak will be better (for me).
I'm confused, is steak the genre? Meaning sirloin would be, say, TOR? Or are we going with lobster is the TOR? Would the mashed potatoes be crafting? Green beans, PvP?
By giving me content and stuff to chase in varying features to make me keep coming back and then when a year passes launching an expansion that adds to it and increases the cap giving even more to chase and progress through on multiple areas.
An example of this, in a game that is still alive and kicking, is FFXI. I literally have a plethora of things/goals to chase/tackle on a daily basis:
1. Leveling up your job/class - a given, but then being able to level any and all on one character instead of the other way around.
2. Unique combat role per class that grows through all of it's leveling.
3. Tie in Weapon Skills per weapon that need to be skilled up and unlocked, as well as some quested for at cap.
4. Side quests that build reputation and give interesting items and money and maps.
5. Maps, some bought, some found, some quested, but not having one makes the game a huge challenge.
6. Make zones dangerous and alive.
7. Put awesome main storylines in that also help progress your character with money, and gates to other areas.
8. Unlocking other jobs/classes via quests.
9. Crafting with it's multitude of quests and recipes and milestones.
10. Unlocking waypoints and faster travel options yet still making it difficult to get to certain areas, very remote areas, keeping the dangerous feel of the world alive.
11. Housing and the vast amount of collection options that also enhance other gameplay a la xp increase, money increase, placing trophies, adding gardening to it, etc.
12. Class/job quests for specific weapons and gear.
13. Unique and multiple party style content from major story boss fights, to smaller party bossfights, to dungeons to raids and so on.
I'm going to stop because I could literally keep going, that's how deep FFXI is and is why I think it's still around. Granted, I would change some things, add quality of life things, modernize it, add colections like EQ2 has or Rift's artifacts. Add minions and mounts to collect, achievments to chase with substantial rewards(again, Rift does this well) PVP in many various forms from arena to battlegrounds to large scale. Add public quests/events or roaming events like rift has, so many things, so many ways to grow the game through the years and keep people invested and coming back.
I look at what I just wrote and then consider current games like Wildstar or ESO and I see them being very one dimensional. Quest or PVP to cap and then run raids or dungeons for gear with some crafting and maybe housing thrown in. Where is my investment and living in a world? Where is my immersion and multitude of progression paths to choose to tackle on any given day?
If you have to add a new expansion every 6 months then the game is fundamentally flawed.
As Wizardry and elocke said, FFXI got a few things right.
Simple: Hire more programmers than developpers. Developpers make it look great, but great looks last for a few hours at best. Then it is all programming ability in refreshing the user experience. So for each new zone with a developper game, users go "WOW THIS IS GREAT"... but after 2 hours they need to be moving on, or else! With programmers, the experience is refreshed and that can happen basically in between fights.
Programmers can create things that will keep the user engaged with the game. Addons, APIs, Custom Items, etc. Once a group blows through designer content, after 5 runs, it gets boring fast. WoW is still working mainly because when faced with quitting, users can refresh their experience with addons. The main negative with WoW is that players are forced to find competent players to play with because their "bosses" are nothing more than synchronised dancing, but there once was a time when you had to pay attention to everything! If a game uses numbers as a difficulty setting, it will stale. Now for WoW these problems only really started mid-BC, but for most games, including new releases, they are their defining factor, so they really are giving themselves no chance to succeed.
Furthermore, programmers can actually enable more classes and more mechanics in a game. That too will refresh the user experience. Just different roles arent enough and if it is problematic to respec, then people will get bummed out having to start over. If a game could make it so that each class felt different without being gimped and useless compared to others, then they would get an instant loyal following just because players could refresh their whole experience with a click if they allowed characters to change class.
So what I would do: Fire a lot of people, especially those so-called leads. Those idiots are killing MMO gaming. Sadly, you better get used to cash shops, that's what eyecandy rakes in and businesses need to make money and bad apples will get as much money as soon as possible to save their jobs.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
I personally like "Fresh" servers, e.g., fresh economy, no twinks, no reputation, the feeling of "launch", etc. I'd like to see a MMO do something similar to the old Diablo 2 Ladder system, where they ultimately cycle and refresh one of their two servers.
Server A is the main server. Server B starts up. After 6m-1y, Server B characters are transferred to Server A. Server B then resets and is now a completely new and fresh server again.
I will say ditch the world, and focus on the story then.
Really? Because the game I gave as an example has both and it does it astoundingly well. Real life has both. Not sure why you think it can't have both in a virtual one...
Keep in mind, when I say "content" I don't mean every possible level and every possible raid. I'm talking about the core set of activities that an MMO offers.
For most themepark MMOs, within 3 to 4 months nearly every semi-regular player will have tried most if not all of the various types of PvE (regular levelling, raids, grouping etc), PvP of all types, crafting and guild mechanics, whether they got to the max character level or not. They have seen all of the core content, all of the ideas that the MMO has brought to the table, so any more gameplay for them will be pure repetition of the same thing just with different visuals and everyone will be at higher levels. So they leave to go to a new MMO and see if it brings any new kinds of ideas to the table (which they usually don't).
Where's the any key?
If you have played MMORPGs for more than a year its up to the player to use their creativity to create content.
But we all know that for most of the current MMO player base they all sit around and wait for other to do it for them.
You see this when people complain about not being to find a group when they could form the group themselves.
People have choices, but many just choose to QQ and blame the company.
I completely disagree due to the fact that every MMO I've ever played that I didn't enjoy, it wasn't due to the story. Ever. Matter of fact, I can't even find that argument anywhere on the internet either for a game not succeeding or tanking. It's always about the gameplay or lack there of. You might argue that focusing on story detracted from the gameplay development, but I would blame bad development and design as opposed to blaming the actual stories.
Not to mention the fact that I presented story as just one facet of many that has to be present in an MMORPG in order to make it last. Not by itself but in conjunction with all the other aspects and features I mentioned.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
nah .. MMORPGs are like single player RPGs nowadays and i play them as such. For example, i enjoyed marvel heroes for 96 hours as a ARPG with marvel characters, and I haven't grouped even once yet.
I am here pecisely because MMORPGs are more like single player RPGs. Otherwise, you think I would have come back to the genre?
Just treat them as single player RPGs. Problem solved.