My signature states my largest grievance with MMORPGs today. It is all too common in these games today. In a nutshell: MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I never did reply serious to this, so here it goes:
Factions.
In PvE: Nothing grinds my gears more than having a predetermined faction that limits my interactions with anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 of the population of the server. My pool of available people to play with, talk to and have general interaction with is greatly reduced because... why? Some story plot says I'm not supposed to like them?
In PvP: I find that more often than not the people I REALLY want to PK are on my faction. I'm limited to killing only those on the opposite side of the fence, and when one of "my own" go nuts and start being a dick, there is jack all I can do about it. Highly aggravating.
I much prefer systems that allow me to choose my allegiance, or have no allegiance at all and we all just do our thing. But the idea that I am trapped in this single faction, especially if that faction has an aesthetic I like but nothing else? Man... can't stand that crap.
The feature I dislike most is when the whole world is a slave to the player. Everything revolves around the player. NPCs don't go about their business. They stand neatly on the same spot, rain or shine, day or night, waiting for you to help them with their little problem.
What I hate the most is fast/instant travel. It makes the world seem so small. Let's look at ffxiv compared to ffxi.
FFXIV has instant travel all over the world. It has a port to every map in the world. Everyone can use it for barely any money. No restrictions for fast traveling. It's immediately accessed upon just touching the aetherite to access.
FFXIV's boats and airships are also instant. Airships you have a Cut Scene, while boats don't have anything, just black screen, then pop your there.
FFXI on the other hand, had some forms of fast travel, but it was a lot more limited. For one, in order to get the outpost warp, your home nation would have to control the region. Then you would need to do a supply run to access it. Also if the beastmen controlled that region you wouldn't be able to warp there at all.
FFXI the airships took like 4 minutes to travel in real time, could just chill out on the deck and enjoy the sky, or stay in the room. The boats took like 12 minutes to travel. You could stay in the room or go out onto the deck and enjoy the ocean. You could fish on the boat. Even notorious monsters would sometimes spawn on you, along with regular sea monsters you could fight. Could even fish up monsters.
FFXI also had tele crystal spread out really well, only a few and a really huge world. In order to fast travel to those, you would either need to be a whm or get a whm player to tele you. I really enjoyed teleing people around back then.
In ffXI BLM's could d2 (warp 2) players, which would warp a player to hes/her home point. The reason that was usefull is because people didn't wanna death warp because you would loose quite abit of xp, and It took awhile to get that back. Plus you could even down level, and literally loose some weapons and gear, until you gained that level back.
That's why I much prefer the way traveling was in ffxi over ffxiv's.
Achievements : An artificial way to have players do certain content.
Once people get their achievements, they leave the game. They did not have fun getting the achievements, they just wanted to check everything of the list.
A little example:
WoW Vanilla did not have achievements. You wanted the wintersaber mount, you worked for it. A few people working together. It was a real trophy item you could show off to friends and the server. I remember our guild doing all kinds of selfmade challenges. See how many bosses we could kill simultaneous in Molten Core. If we could make an healer only Onyxia kill.
My signature states my largest grievance with MMORPGs today. It is all too common in these games today. In a nutshell: MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
Its sad but its also true.
Some businesmans are even making tools for people who dont like MMOs,they lack skills to communicate with other people so theres tools like automated grouping ,team finders etc.For peeps who hate other players theres Instanced harvesting nodes ,shared loot,rewards for losing etc etc.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
In a broad sense, it's the handholding. GPS-style maps. Mini-maps. Everything tabulated and calculated for you. Everything is designed to streamline things as much as possible. And in the quest to do so, exploration and immersion are tossed completely out.
While there are plenty of things that can be praised about the strides games have made the past 5-10 years, not all changes have been for the better. What are some features or systems in MMORPGs that you absolutely loathe?
For me: Daily quests that are mandatory for progression.
I am not the type of person to read a novel, watch a movie, or play a game more than once-- so I hate when an MMO asks me to do the same quest chain over and over again. I would rather mindlessly kill a monster 100x then have to repeat a quest multiple times.
The forced questline.
IT BLOWS MY MIND that so many folks have no idea that this is not at all necessary. IT BLOWS MY MIND that so many folks feel that they are in an mmo when they solo quest one grind after another.
You want to build a community? Get 8 people in a group (developers MUST reward each slot taken in a group with 10% bonus exp), and go blow up mobs - especially in a open world pvp zone (for even more xp) or give other rewards for a pve zone (plus the xp).
This type of leveling (a) teaches you how to really use your character in a group (b) builds knowledge of other players around you, i.e., community (c) is plain fun.
But but, says the developers, you group for dungeons! Wonderful, I say, now make it possible to group for the level grind as well and watch your community explode.
While there are plenty of things that can be praised about the strides games have made the past 5-10 years, not all changes have been for the better. What are some features or systems in MMORPGs that you absolutely loathe?
For me: Daily quests that are mandatory for progression.
I am not the type of person to read a novel, watch a movie, or play a game more than once-- so I hate when an MMO asks me to do the same quest chain over and over again. I would rather mindlessly kill a monster 100x then have to repeat a quest multiple times.
The forced questline.
IT BLOWS MY MIND that so many folks have no idea that this is not at all necessary. IT BLOWS MY MIND that so many folks feel that they are in an mmo when they solo quest one grind after another.
You want to build a community? Get 8 people in a group (developers MUST reward each slot taken in a group with 10% bonus exp), and go blow up mobs - especially in a open world pvp zone (for even more xp) or give other rewards for a pve zone (plus the xp).
This type of leveling (a) teaches you how to really use your character in a group (b) builds knowledge of other players around you, i.e., community (c) is plain fun.
But but, says the developers, you group for dungeons! Wonderful, I say, now make it possible to group for the level grind as well and watch your community explode.
I agree that I like this type of leveling much more than solo quest grinding, but I do gotta to say this- it needs to be optional, and not the only way to level.
I say this because solo play is absolutely necessary for an MMO to age well. This I learned the hard way from experience. I have started a handful of MMOs that had only group based questing, where solo was close to impossible, that I joined into a little past their prime. The result was that I had no one to group with. It wasn't a lack of desire to find people to group with, but a lack of people my level. They were all much higher level by that point, and new players were starting to become few and far between.
Between solo questing and this style of group play, I'd choose the group play any day. BUT, if I find myself wanting to start a new game that might be struggling with a small low level population, I'd like to be able to have an option to catch up to where everyone is at, and not get stuck waiting for more new players.
i miss a proper death penalty. make death hurt, make it something to be feared again. who these days is too worried when their character dies just to be resurected with a few dents in their gear and no real loss of xp or skills.
vg might have died and been slagged off, but it did have a death penalty that could hurt you. Asheron's call was another game you had to worry about a death penalty. yet these days you get killed and you just shrug it off.
another thing which is not exactly a feature (even though it seems to be at times) is those players who join a game and play it for a few mins and then yell out in region chat "this is not as good as World of Wankers" to which there's also usualy an automatic "go back to wow then"
who can judge a game after a short time without experiencing all it's highs and lows? yet you get these players turn up in every game.
Originally posted by cerulean2012 Most of the stuff that people have said they disliked can be ignored in games.LFG/Group finder....don't use itFast Travel/teleportation nodes...don't use themMounts...don't use themQuests....don't do themSee easy to fix.
Some of these features I have no trouble NOT using. LFG snd Fast Travel are easily avoidable.
But... Why buy the game in the first place? Don't do quests? Really? I'll just load up some FPS/TPS to just go out and kill things, thankyouverymuch. How about MMOs that will not allow the player to advance without them?
Really, I am looking for an equal gameplay experience as others playing the Massively Multiplayer Online game. I don't want other players using fast travel to beat me to a spawn spot if I choose not to use fast travel. I don't want other players stuck in a random group so they cannot answer my summons to form a group.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
Correction ... MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like OLD MMORPGs. They like them now, otherwise why would there be a big market.
Narus, not so sure they like the new ones. I see AAA MMORPG, some based on gigantic IP's, come and go like a French escort. Only very few have had staying power, and most of those had the old design element of open world (EQ1, EVE, Minecraft).
If you don' t like the new ones, why even spend a min in them? They obviously like them enough to spend time (or even money).
We can debate how much and how many like the new ones .. but clearly most don't like the old ones.
Really, I am looking for an equal gameplay experience as others playing the Massively Multiplayer Online game. I don't want other players using fast travel to beat me to a spawn spot if I choose not to use fast travel. I don't want other players stuck in a random group so they cannot answer my summons to form a group.
Well, you don't get to dictate how others enjoy their games. This is the fallacy of depending on others to have fun.
If others don't want to answer your summon, and want to LFD into random groups, there is really little you can do. Other players have no obligation to play the way you like.
Really, I am looking for an equal gameplay experience as others playing the Massively Multiplayer Online game. I don't want other players using fast travel to beat me to a spawn spot if I choose not to use fast travel. I don't want other players stuck in a random group so they cannot answer my summons to form a group.
Well, you don't get to dictate how others enjoy their games. This is the fallacy of depending on others to have fun.
If others don't want to answer your summon, and want to LFD into random groups, there is really little you can do. Other players have no obligation to play the way you like.
Of course you can dictate how others enjoy their game, just sign up for a game with YOUR desired ruleset in mind so everyone playing that game is on an even playing field. You cant just go to WoW and bitch about others having fast travel while you can join other games without that feature.
MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
Correction ... MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like OLD MMORPGs. They like them now, otherwise why would there be a big market.
Narus, not so sure they like the new ones. I see AAA MMORPG, some based on gigantic IP's, come and go like a French escort. Only very few have had staying power, and most of those had the old design element of open world (EQ1, EVE, Minecraft).
If you don' t like the new ones, why even spend a min in them? They obviously like them enough to spend time (or even money).
We can debate how much and how many like the new ones .. but clearly most don't like the old ones.
Like the alcoholic will drink Aqua Velva aftershave, the mmorpg-a-holic will try any new MMO that comes out. But both hope for what they really want, not the fix of the moment.
Here we go, that insulting attitude again.
And what if those people really enjoy the games they are playing? Then, it makes you a rude arrogant "better than thou" person... and that is kindly said.
THis^
People go see movies, listen to music, and play games they enjoy, there's far too many options in these departments to not seek out exactly what you want or like.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
Correction ... MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like OLD MMORPGs. They like them now, otherwise why would there be a big market.
Narus, not so sure they like the new ones. I see AAA MMORPG, some based on gigantic IP's, come and go like a French escort. Only very few have had staying power, and most of those had the old design element of open world (EQ1, EVE, Minecraft).
If you don' t like the new ones, why even spend a min in them? They obviously like them enough to spend time (or even money).
We can debate how much and how many like the new ones .. but clearly most don't like the old ones.
Like the alcoholic will drink Aqua Velva aftershave, the mmorpg-a-holic will try any new MMO that comes out. But both hope for what they really want, not the fix of the moment.
Here we go, that insulting attitude again.
And what if those people really enjoy the games they are playing? Then, it makes you a rude arrogant "better than thou" person... and that is kindly said.
THis^
People go see movies, listen to music, and play games they enjoy, there's far too many options in these departments to not seek out exactly what you want or like.
While I agree many of the modern MMOs are successful with solo-friendly progression and quest hubs, I highly doubt that they are so successful that MMO developers no longer want to innovate or present different flavors.
It would be a sad day when developers quit trying anything new and simply reskin current MMOs while attempting only to polish existing systems and present bigger-budget visual and audio presentation.
I'm with those that have said levels are the worst thing to happen to MMO's over the last decade. The best games I've ever played were more based on skills than levels. Levels inevitably lead to a grind for "cap" and make the rest of the content something to pass by. If there were no levels, then the whole concept of "end game" becomes less important. In pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies it was easy to sit back and enjoy gaining new skills. It wasn't as much about "getting to endgame" as it was developing your character to make your mark on the world. It was fun, you weren't the "chosen one", and if an area was too difficult for you, all you had to do was gather some friends or come back after you learned some new skills or got a better weapon. Levels are the bane of the MMORPG.
MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
Correction ... MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like OLD MMORPGs. They like them now, otherwise why would there be a big market.
Narus, not so sure they like the new ones. I see AAA MMORPG, some based on gigantic IP's, come and go like a French escort. Only very few have had staying power, and most of those had the old design element of open world (EQ1, EVE, Minecraft).
If you don' t like the new ones, why even spend a min in them? They obviously like them enough to spend time (or even money).
We can debate how much and how many like the new ones .. but clearly most don't like the old ones.
Like the alcoholic will drink Aqua Velva aftershave, the mmorpg-a-holic will try any new MMO that comes out. But both hope for what they really want, not the fix of the moment.
Here we go, that insulting attitude again.
And what if those people really enjoy the games they are playing? Then, it makes you a rude arrogant "better than thou" person... and that is kindly said.
THis^
People go see movies, listen to music, and play games they enjoy, there's far too many options in these departments to not seek out exactly what you want or like.
This x 2
How many are "addicted" to just one game and one game only? Players play many video games ... and i highly doubt they are "forced" to play anything that is not fun to them (particularly when there are so many choices).
Even alchoholics can choose the booze they like .. they don't have to drink beer all the time.
Comments
My signature states my largest grievance with MMORPGs today. It is all too common in these games today. In a nutshell:
MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like MMORPGs."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I never did reply serious to this, so here it goes:
Factions.
In PvE: Nothing grinds my gears more than having a predetermined faction that limits my interactions with anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 of the population of the server. My pool of available people to play with, talk to and have general interaction with is greatly reduced because... why? Some story plot says I'm not supposed to like them?
In PvP: I find that more often than not the people I REALLY want to PK are on my faction. I'm limited to killing only those on the opposite side of the fence, and when one of "my own" go nuts and start being a dick, there is jack all I can do about it. Highly aggravating.
I much prefer systems that allow me to choose my allegiance, or have no allegiance at all and we all just do our thing. But the idea that I am trapped in this single faction, especially if that faction has an aesthetic I like but nothing else? Man... can't stand that crap.
Everything revolves around the player.
NPCs don't go about their business. They stand neatly on the same spot, rain or shine, day or night, waiting for you to help them with their little problem.
What I hate the most is fast/instant travel. It makes the world seem so small. Let's look at ffxiv compared to ffxi.
FFXIV has instant travel all over the world. It has a port to every map in the world. Everyone can use it for barely any money. No restrictions for fast traveling. It's immediately accessed upon just touching the aetherite to access.
FFXIV's boats and airships are also instant. Airships you have a Cut Scene, while boats don't have anything, just black screen, then pop your there.
FFXI on the other hand, had some forms of fast travel, but it was a lot more limited. For one, in order to get the outpost warp, your home nation would have to control the region. Then you would need to do a supply run to access it. Also if the beastmen controlled that region you wouldn't be able to warp there at all.
FFXI the airships took like 4 minutes to travel in real time, could just chill out on the deck and enjoy the sky, or stay in the room. The boats took like 12 minutes to travel. You could stay in the room or go out onto the deck and enjoy the ocean. You could fish on the boat. Even notorious monsters would sometimes spawn on you, along with regular sea monsters you could fight. Could even fish up monsters.
FFXI also had tele crystal spread out really well, only a few and a really huge world. In order to fast travel to those, you would either need to be a whm or get a whm player to tele you. I really enjoyed teleing people around back then.
In ffXI BLM's could d2 (warp 2) players, which would warp a player to hes/her home point. The reason that was usefull is because people didn't wanna death warp because you would loose quite abit of xp, and It took awhile to get that back. Plus you could even down level, and literally loose some weapons and gear, until you gained that level back.
That's why I much prefer the way traveling was in ffxi over ffxiv's.
Achievements : An artificial way to have players do certain content.
Once people get their achievements, they leave the game. They did not have fun getting the achievements, they just wanted to check everything of the list.
A little example:
WoW Vanilla did not have achievements. You wanted the wintersaber mount, you worked for it. A few people working together. It was a real trophy item you could show off to friends and the server. I remember our guild doing all kinds of selfmade challenges. See how many bosses we could kill simultaneous in Molten Core. If we could make an healer only Onyxia kill.
Its sad but its also true.
Some businesmans are even making tools for people who dont like MMOs,they lack skills to communicate with other people so theres tools like automated grouping ,team finders etc.For peeps who hate other players theres Instanced harvesting nodes ,shared loot,rewards for losing etc etc.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
nah ... it is a MMO trying to be a single player game and succeeding.
Correction ... MMORPGs are now made for players who do not like OLD MMORPGs. They like them now, otherwise why would there be a big market.
The forced questline.
IT BLOWS MY MIND that so many folks have no idea that this is not at all necessary. IT BLOWS MY MIND that so many folks feel that they are in an mmo when they solo quest one grind after another.
You want to build a community? Get 8 people in a group (developers MUST reward each slot taken in a group with 10% bonus exp), and go blow up mobs - especially in a open world pvp zone (for even more xp) or give other rewards for a pve zone (plus the xp).
This type of leveling (a) teaches you how to really use your character in a group (b) builds knowledge of other players around you, i.e., community (c) is plain fun.
But but, says the developers, you group for dungeons! Wonderful, I say, now make it possible to group for the level grind as well and watch your community explode.
I agree that I like this type of leveling much more than solo quest grinding, but I do gotta to say this- it needs to be optional, and not the only way to level.
I say this because solo play is absolutely necessary for an MMO to age well. This I learned the hard way from experience.
I have started a handful of MMOs that had only group based questing, where solo was close to impossible, that I joined into a little past their prime. The result was that I had no one to group with. It wasn't a lack of desire to find people to group with, but a lack of people my level. They were all much higher level by that point, and new players were starting to become few and far between.
Between solo questing and this style of group play, I'd choose the group play any day. BUT, if I find myself wanting to start a new game that might be struggling with a small low level population, I'd like to be able to have an option to catch up to where everyone is at, and not get stuck waiting for more new players.
i miss a proper death penalty. make death hurt, make it something to be feared again. who these days is too worried when their character dies just to be resurected with a few dents in their gear and no real loss of xp or skills.
vg might have died and been slagged off, but it did have a death penalty that could hurt you. Asheron's call was another game you had to worry about a death penalty. yet these days you get killed and you just shrug it off.
another thing which is not exactly a feature (even though it seems to be at times) is those players who join a game and play it for a few mins and then yell out in region chat "this is not as good as World of Wankers" to which there's also usualy an automatic "go back to wow then"
who can judge a game after a short time without experiencing all it's highs and lows? yet you get these players turn up in every game.
i look this wrecked because i've got GIST.
Whats your excuse?
http://deadmanrambling.com/
But... Why buy the game in the first place? Don't do quests? Really? I'll just load up some FPS/TPS to just go out and kill things, thankyouverymuch. How about MMOs that will not allow the player to advance without them?
Really, I am looking for an equal gameplay experience as others playing the Massively Multiplayer Online game. I don't want other players using fast travel to beat me to a spawn spot if I choose not to use fast travel. I don't want other players stuck in a random group so they cannot answer my summons to form a group.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
If you don' t like the new ones, why even spend a min in them? They obviously like them enough to spend time (or even money).
We can debate how much and how many like the new ones .. but clearly most don't like the old ones.
Well, you don't get to dictate how others enjoy their games. This is the fallacy of depending on others to have fun.
If others don't want to answer your summon, and want to LFD into random groups, there is really little you can do. Other players have no obligation to play the way you like.
grinding for gear, to be able to grind for better gear, to be able to grind for better gear
Of course you can dictate how others enjoy their game, just sign up for a game with YOUR desired ruleset in mind so everyone playing that game is on an even playing field. You cant just go to WoW and bitch about others having fast travel while you can join other games without that feature.
Ill agree with the others
the worst part of MMOs is the community
THis^
People go see movies, listen to music, and play games they enjoy, there's far too many options in these departments to not seek out exactly what you want or like.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
While I agree many of the modern MMOs are successful with solo-friendly progression and quest hubs, I highly doubt that they are so successful that MMO developers no longer want to innovate or present different flavors.
It would be a sad day when developers quit trying anything new and simply reskin current MMOs while attempting only to polish existing systems and present bigger-budget visual and audio presentation.
This x 2
How many are "addicted" to just one game and one game only? Players play many video games ... and i highly doubt they are "forced" to play anything that is not fun to them (particularly when there are so many choices).
Even alchoholics can choose the booze they like .. they don't have to drink beer all the time.