Holy Trinity is a band aid to cover up poor AI. Which is pretty much SOE's #1 secret sauce element for EQN. If the AI is crap, yes it won't be too exciting, but if it is as good as they hype, trinity is not needed at all and wouldn't work even.
Pretty sure the trinity is from traditional PnP RPG's, not something created as a stopgap until better technology was invented.
Holy Trinity is a band aid to cover up poor AI. Which is pretty much SOE's #1 secret sauce element for EQN. If the AI is crap, yes it won't be too exciting, but if it is as good as they hype, trinity is not needed at all and wouldn't work even.
Pretty sure the trinity is from traditional PnP RPG's, not something created as a stopgap until better technology was invented.
Could you point this out to be in D&D/AD&D or another game? From my experience with PnP (not much I admit), players resembled a much more fluid system like MOBA and what EQN seems to be shooting for. This is assuming that "Holy Trinity" is reference to combat that revolves around Taunt, Threat, Heal Spams, DPS Spams, etc.
GMs tailored games around the players, not the other way around. Didn't have a "Tank", you didn't call it a night and go home. Certain campaigns or whatever might be favored for certain classes/roles, but I do not remember any sort of strict ruleset resembling what later became a requirement in online gaming. Even MUDs did not have the "Holy Trinity".
While I doubt EQN's AI will resemble GMs and human intelligence, it can lead to a much more fluid system where players have options on how to tackle a challenge. Instead of 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 2 DPS, or don't bother.
Originally posted by goozmania If you think this "action" combat, p2w single player mmo is the last hope, you should be giving up right now.
This game is going to bomb.
Sadly, I have every reason to believe this is correct. FPS style combat doesn't exactly facilitate conversation. Social bonds won't form.
Though gooz might be a bit more ngeative about it, hes likely not gonna be wrong. Action combat and limiting skills to only a handful can get dull faster (imo) than tab targeting. Like Arc said action combat removes the chance to chat, so unless they have some great built in voice that comes on with partys/raids..ect. its gonna end up like most of these new MMOs where its just flash on your screen and silence in the chat. When people arent constant chatting, there is barely a community, which (imo) is one of the biggest parts of making an MMO work in and out of game.
I also doubt this will keep some of the older EQ fans since its going (especially in combat terms) away from what 1 and 2 were like. Put on top of that the F2P design from the start and your going to scare off plenty (reguardless if its p2w or completely fair)
People may not love the slower combat of the older MMOs, but they by far tend to have the best communitys (my example being FFXI vs FFXIV, making everything more action like and more solo oriented takes away from needing to talk or be part of the community) I can bet this game will start some new trends like rift with its pop up events, but i can't see it being as big as everyone wants it to be.
I'm playing an action combat MOBA game right now, and can chat just fine. Actually, as this game has grown over time, i've noticed people chatting more and more. Obviously, if there is constant action 24/7, it would be harder to chat, but unlike a MOBA, an MMORPG will have combat downtime (naturally), which means the window of opportunity to communicate is widened because you're not in a constant battle 24/7.
Also, with the evolution of MMO's and games in general, i'd imagine more intricate communication systems, including voice, predefined commands like "follow me", "attack enemy X", "heal me" etc. WOW didn't have VOIP built in during Vanilla, but it does now. I'm sure SOE realize just how important the design and evolution of communication in MMO's is for success, both in creating and nurturing social interactions, and improving the atmosphere of the game.
Originally posted by goozmania If you think this "action" combat, p2w single player mmo is the last hope, you should be giving up right now.
This game is going to bomb.
Sadly, I have every reason to believe this is correct. FPS style combat doesn't exactly facilitate conversation. Social bonds won't form.
I'll ignore goozmania's troll attempt, but how do you see this as a FPS game? Beyond the obvious it isn't first person or a shooter. Anything that requires a bit of eye hand coordination and doesn't rely on standing still is a FPS?
Originally posted by zanfire
Though gooz might be a bit more ngeative about it, hes likely not gonna be wrong. Action combat and limiting skills to only a handful can get dull faster (imo) than tab targeting. Like Arc said action combat removes the chance to chat, so unless they have some great built in voice that comes on with partys/raids..ect. its gonna end up like most of these new MMOs where its just flash on your screen and silence in the chat. When people arent constant chatting, there is barely a community, which (imo) is one of the biggest parts of making an MMO work in and out of game.
I do like the chat ability of slower combat, but SOE's VOIP isn't terrible and it is supposed to be better for EQN. Not as popular in mmorpg, VOIP of some form has become pretty important in more active gamesgenres. Same can be said for guilds/clans and more high end raiding in mmorpgs. If you want to be social, typing isn't the only option. Personally think VOIP is much more social than typing in emotionless text. Everyone doesn't own a MIC, but they are pretty cheap these days (game being F2P is bound to save people a few bucks initially) and they have voice alteration for those that don't like their voice.
40+ classes with at least 12 skills each (most likely more due to Tier progression) isn't very limiting. If you don't take advantage of what the devs have created, only dull thing is the player.
I also doubt this will keep some of the older EQ fans since its going (especially in combat terms) away from what 1 and 2 were like. Put on top of that the F2P design from the start and your going to scare off plenty (reguardless if its p2w or completely fair)
For everyone that says they won't play, two more will end up playing. EQ fans that haven't/won't play other games are also a tiny fraction of the gaming community. Sucks that they are close minded, but it's there loss. SOE has already said that EQ/EQ2 will still be around for those that prefer them. To me it would be a huge mistake to not give it a try though. Especially with EQN's F2P model will probably be better then what EQ/EQ2 currently have.
People may not love the slower combat of the older MMOs, but they by far tend to have the best communitys (my example being FFXI vs FFXIV, making everything more action like and more solo oriented takes away from needing to talk or be part of the community) I can bet this game will start some new trends like rift with its pop up events, but i can't see it being as big as everyone wants it to be.
Time will tell. Again, depending on how VOIP works out, could be the start of a much more connected community. Also, "community" usually takes place outside of combat. Players don't go to the middle of a dungeon to start up a deep conversation with strangers that only typing can facilitate. They do that in towns, taverns, trade hubs, guild halls, etc. "Hold up guys, I need to copy and paste this long RP story I've been working on" don't attack anything for a while.
To each their own. Glad SOE is moving forward and planning for the future. All I know is that VOIP has given me much more fun times then typing ever did. Laughing for real instead of LOL/ROLF and speaking naturally without having to add /s or anything artificial. Also makes playing much more straight forward, don't have to type and type and type what to do. VOIP allows for combat to go faster and combat going faster makes more fun times possible.
Remembering back to the painful days of early EQ raiding compared to when Team Speak, Vent and other programs came out is just night and day. Never going back.
While I didn't start with the original Everquest I did know about it's existence while I was playing Asheron's Call the same year both released. While I didn't find anything I would consider "my thing" about original EQ, it did 10 times better in numbers then my beloved AC. It also ushered in the great MMO genre beginings, seeing as it was the first commercial success and relative household name.
I hope this same history will work with its newest MMO. As a huge proponent of Innovation and uniqueness in the Genre It is damn refreshing to see EQN go away from the EQ/WoW model that has stymied this genre for far to damn long.
Here's hoping the EQN Revolution ushers in a new game changing, genre defining MMO. Because sadly if it doesn't I can almost assuredly see me never looking into this genre again. For me this is the last hope and the final nail in the coffin. I have been without an MMO for far too long and I couldn't take another failed MMO.
Get it Right SOE!
I thought GW2 was the last hope? what happened?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
It's weird...I wonder if this is how everyone who cut their MMO teeth on EQ feels. I know I'm really really hoping they bring back the magic that once captivated me with EQ. IMHO it was simply the best Mmorpg ever, everything else compared has been garbage, save a few close contenders (SWG and DAoC).
In any case, I'm not going to get my hopes up. Too many recent letdowns has jaded me.
EDIT: FFXIV:ARR and WS are recent non-garbage games, to be fair. But something is still missing from them when compared to my rose-tinted memories of EQ.
EDIT AGAIN: And WoW, yes it was successful. It was a polished, dumbed-down, EQ clone, how could it not be?
Neverwinter is an amzing game for the uber rich or the super casual. What it does it does well. While I no longer play Neverwinter Iconsider it to have the best combat in the genre. One I wish was used more often instead of this quasi-combat crap that plagues games like Wildstar, ESO and GW2.
For the record I am super touched that you follow my posting patterns and know about what former posts I've made. E-Stalker alert LOL.
I only remember two of your posts, the general gist was:
1. Neverwinter will be the sleeper hit of the year.
2. I'm not playing Neverwinter anymore because the cash shops too much.
The 2nd one was kinda obvious with a little research, the first was laughable. So you see when you start saying something similar, in similar hyperbolic fashion, it's jars a memory.
Hey and if you don't want to get, 'stalked', (cute), don't get overexcited and make ludicrous predictions. Enjoying something is one thing making outlandish epoch defining statements is another..
Nothing wrong with predictions. I still think it would of been a sleeper hit if it wasn't produced by Perfect World. Secondly I never said the cash shop was too much. I spent over $600 in NWO but the reason I quit was my guild fell apart mostly because they refused to spend money and were stuck in mediocre enchantments.
None of what I said about it was hyperbolic. Nothing I made in this post is hyperbolic. It is how I feel. You may disagree with my statements and it's your right to do so and disagree, but these are my feelings and I have plenty of past MMO failures (FOR ME) to prove it.
I suppose I need to preface every statement I make from here on with (for me). The average person can see someone's statement and differentiate between opinion or not. And sure my entire argument is filled with opinions, but I sir, am still entitled to them.
None of this makes any sense and is contradictory to what you've written before, but I'm assuming your a very emotional person that expects others to feel exactly the same about your game of choice.
You may think I will critise you for that but..fair enough, I honestly hope EQN works out for you and you find other who share your passion, in that and maybe other games
Seriously if you have that amount of hope for something considering this industry...well I think that's admirable, it's not me, but good on you
Comments
Pretty sure the trinity is from traditional PnP RPG's, not something created as a stopgap until better technology was invented.
Could you point this out to be in D&D/AD&D or another game? From my experience with PnP (not much I admit), players resembled a much more fluid system like MOBA and what EQN seems to be shooting for. This is assuming that "Holy Trinity" is reference to combat that revolves around Taunt, Threat, Heal Spams, DPS Spams, etc.
GMs tailored games around the players, not the other way around. Didn't have a "Tank", you didn't call it a night and go home. Certain campaigns or whatever might be favored for certain classes/roles, but I do not remember any sort of strict ruleset resembling what later became a requirement in online gaming. Even MUDs did not have the "Holy Trinity".
While I doubt EQN's AI will resemble GMs and human intelligence, it can lead to a much more fluid system where players have options on how to tackle a challenge. Instead of 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 2 DPS, or don't bother.
I'm playing an action combat MOBA game right now, and can chat just fine. Actually, as this game has grown over time, i've noticed people chatting more and more. Obviously, if there is constant action 24/7, it would be harder to chat, but unlike a MOBA, an MMORPG will have combat downtime (naturally), which means the window of opportunity to communicate is widened because you're not in a constant battle 24/7.
Also, with the evolution of MMO's and games in general, i'd imagine more intricate communication systems, including voice, predefined commands like "follow me", "attack enemy X", "heal me" etc. WOW didn't have VOIP built in during Vanilla, but it does now. I'm sure SOE realize just how important the design and evolution of communication in MMO's is for success, both in creating and nurturing social interactions, and improving the atmosphere of the game.
I'll ignore goozmania's troll attempt, but how do you see this as a FPS game? Beyond the obvious it isn't first person or a shooter. Anything that requires a bit of eye hand coordination and doesn't rely on standing still is a FPS?
To each their own. Glad SOE is moving forward and planning for the future. All I know is that VOIP has given me much more fun times then typing ever did. Laughing for real instead of LOL/ROLF and speaking naturally without having to add /s or anything artificial. Also makes playing much more straight forward, don't have to type and type and type what to do. VOIP allows for combat to go faster and combat going faster makes more fun times possible.
Remembering back to the painful days of early EQ raiding compared to when Team Speak, Vent and other programs came out is just night and day. Never going back.
OP really? "The last great hope for the MMO Genre."?
While I hope it is a very good/great game when it comes out I do hope there will be other great games in the future.
So I am not hoping that EQN will be the last great hope for the MMO Genre.
I thought GW2 was the last hope? what happened?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
It's weird...I wonder if this is how everyone who cut their MMO teeth on EQ feels. I know I'm really really hoping they bring back the magic that once captivated me with EQ. IMHO it was simply the best Mmorpg ever, everything else compared has been garbage, save a few close contenders (SWG and DAoC).
In any case, I'm not going to get my hopes up. Too many recent letdowns has jaded me.
EDIT: FFXIV:ARR and WS are recent non-garbage games, to be fair. But something is still missing from them when compared to my rose-tinted memories of EQ.
EDIT AGAIN: And WoW, yes it was successful. It was a polished, dumbed-down, EQ clone, how could it not be?
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
None of this makes any sense and is contradictory to what you've written before, but I'm assuming your a very emotional person that expects others to feel exactly the same about your game of choice.
You may think I will critise you for that but..fair enough, I honestly hope EQN works out for you and you find other who share your passion, in that and maybe other games
Seriously if you have that amount of hope for something considering this industry...well I think that's admirable, it's not me, but good on you
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!