Originally posted by azzamasin You're confusing what Pay to Win actually means. P2W is when you buy power or items that are stronger then what can be acquired in the game through normal means. Buying quality of life improvements or cosmetic features are not B2W no matter how much you want it to be. You spent $150 to get early access to the game and to get a few items to boot.
paying for more storage space in this game is a pay to win aspect. So is labor points.
HOWEVER!...the price point does matter. So if the price point for labor points + storage space + subscription comes out to around $15 a month then is fine because that model is just designed to attract people who are not commited to the game because they want to try it out a bit. having said that, I would prefer a simple 30 day trial.
30 day trial? What mmo offers that? I'm curious to hear. Also, how in the world is storage space P2W? lol.
Because...well i tried to find a reason.
Here you go, reasons since this seems so complicated.
With more storage space I can...
Hold out for more money by storing items until it's favorable to sell them instead of because my inventory is full or deleting them completely to add space.
Loot more when I'm crafting/grinding before having to return to a different place reducing my travel time in turn or secure my position.
Store rarer items like events that only come yearly or once in the lifetime of the game. Again, if these items are ever tradeable, I can sell them long after the event is over for good cash since other people can't get them that weren't playing the game then.
Craft/purchase consumables or supplies ahead of time making yourself a kit for future encounters without having to stop to gather items/purchase them right before a time when they will be of use.
Allows you to have more mounts/pets/gear/transport items stored.
Quest items take up bag space - per reddit and someone noted up to 5 slots needed for a quest to collect four items then combine them into one.
Craft more because I can store more goods - this is a sandbox right?
C'mon guys, no one can figure out how inventory aids someone in an MMO game - no one - I call shenanigans. There's no reason to be obtuse if you want honest discussion.
What you are talking about it's a commodity not a necessity. You want commodities? Pay for them. Also with scrolls it's much cheaper to get the bag extension. Before it scaled 50s, 1g, 5g, 10g, 25g, 50g. Now on the ah it's like 5-6g each. You lose 3.5g for the first 2 expansions compared to before...that's so p2w indeed! How dare they take my precious 3g and make me save 70g.
Chryos - After dropping 150 for the game, and paying for a monthly subscription, do I have access to the full game? Or am I going to still have to spend more money via micro-transactions to buy extra features that should be included if you purchased the game?
I'll be pretty disappointed if my 150 and a monthly sub is not enough. That's my concern and will determine if I will sub the game after my 3 months is up.
Jahlon - There will be micro-transactions you have to conduct (inventory expansion, character expansions, etc.).
In case you don't realize there are quite a few MMOs out now that have you pay for character expansions and inventory expansions, so this isn't new and is kinda normal.
FYI...GW2 & SWTOR to name 2 make you pay for both.
Again, not an issue, move along.
So GW2 has no Sub i think you can move along with this quote.
Originally posted by xAPOCx Im sitting here reading these posts and cant help but think that you are the very people we have to thank for this payment problem we have today. We had a good system back in the good old days. Bought the game, payed your 15 a month, and went about your way. Not anymore. Now we have a slew of piece meal pricing. Its like the dollar menu at McDonalds. You have no one but yourselves to blame for the current state of MMOs.
While I agree with you to a degree, it's not entirely the players fault. Too many half-assed MMOs have been released under that old payment model and simply were not a good value for that money. Much of the state of our payment options now stem from publishers trying to recover from their own failures.
Originally posted by xAPOCx Im sitting here reading these posts and cant help but think that you are the very people we have to thank for this payment problem we have today. We had a good system back in the good old days. Bought the game, payed your 15 a month, and went about your way. Not anymore. Now we have a slew of piece meal pricing. Its like the dollar menu at McDonalds. You have no one but yourselves to blame for the current state of MMOs.
While I agree with you to a degree, it's not entirely the players fault. Too many half-assed MMOs have been released under that old payment model and simply were not a good value for that money. Much of the state of our payment options now stem from publishers trying to recover from their own failures.
Leave grandpa Apoc alone...he's still upset people do not think his tastes are relevant anymore. He will go on and on and on even though the era of P2P died when devs plugged people into skinner boxes and unplugged them from virtual words ( so since EQ1 and WoW pretty much signaling the death of P2P ).
Oh and do not mention esports around him cause he will go on in length about how they shouldn't even be called sports.
Originally posted by xAPOCx Im sitting here reading these posts and cant help but think that you are the very people we have to thank for this payment problem we have today. We had a good system back in the good old days. Bought the game, payed your 15 a month, and went about your way. Not anymore. Now we have a slew of piece meal pricing. Its like the dollar menu at McDonalds. You have no one but yourselves to blame for the current state of MMOs.
While I agree with you to a degree, it's not entirely the players fault. Too many half-assed MMOs have been released under that old payment model and simply were not a good value for that money. Much of the state of our payment options now stem from publishers trying to recover from their own failures.
Leave grandpa Apoc alone...he's still upset people do not think his tastes are relevant anymore. He will go on and on and on even though the era of P2P died when devs plugged people into skinner boxes and unplugged them from virtual words ( so since EQ1 and WoW pretty much signaling the death of P2P ).
Oh and do not mention esports around him cause he will go on in length about how they shouldn't even be called sports.
You can make all the snide comments you want Dihour but you cant say that the payment models we have today are better then what they used to be. The content within this very thread is proof of that. Offer me a deal where i can attain everything in game for 15 a month or piece meal me items over and over again with cash shop candy.
Oh and esports are not sports. if that is a sport then eating contests are considered sports.
Originally posted by xAPOCx Im sitting here reading these posts and cant help but think that you are the very people we have to thank for this payment problem we have today. We had a good system back in the good old days. Bought the game, payed your 15 a month, and went about your way. Not anymore. Now we have a slew of piece meal pricing. Its like the dollar menu at McDonalds. You have no one but yourselves to blame for the current state of MMOs.
While I agree with you to a degree, it's not entirely the players fault. Too many half-assed MMOs have been released under that old payment model and simply were not a good value for that money. Much of the state of our payment options now stem from publishers trying to recover from their own failures.
Leave grandpa Apoc alone...he's still upset people do not think his tastes are relevant anymore. He will go on and on and on even though the era of P2P died when devs plugged people into skinner boxes and unplugged them from virtual words ( so since EQ1 and WoW pretty much signaling the death of P2P ).
Oh and do not mention esports around him cause he will go on in length about how they shouldn't even be called sports.
You can make all the snide comments you want Dihour but you cant say that the payment models we have today are better then what they used to be. The content within this very thread is proof of that. Offer me a deal where i can attain everything in game for 15 a month or piece meal me items over and over again with cash shop candy.
Oh and esports are not sports. is that is a sport then eating contests are considered sports.
The only thing that is better with this generation of payment models is that I can get a feel for the games before I buy them. Although most of them are exactly what I expect them to be........crap.
But I think that the payment models are the symptom of poor game quality, not the other way around.
Originally posted by xAPOCx Im sitting here reading these posts and cant help but think that you are the very people we have to thank for this payment problem we have today. We had a good system back in the good old days. Bought the game, payed your 15 a month, and went about your way. Not anymore. Now we have a slew of piece meal pricing. Its like the dollar menu at McDonalds. You have no one but yourselves to blame for the current state of MMOs.
While I agree with you to a degree, it's not entirely the players fault. Too many half-assed MMOs have been released under that old payment model and simply were not a good value for that money. Much of the state of our payment options now stem from publishers trying to recover from their own failures.
Leave grandpa Apoc alone...he's still upset people do not think his tastes are relevant anymore. He will go on and on and on even though the era of P2P died when devs plugged people into skinner boxes and unplugged them from virtual words ( so since EQ1 and WoW pretty much signaling the death of P2P ).
Oh and do not mention esports around him cause he will go on in length about how they shouldn't even be called sports.
You can make all the snide comments you want Dihour but you cant say that the payment models we have today are better then what they used to be. The content within this very thread is proof of that. Offer me a deal where i can attain everything in game for 15 a month or piece meal me items over and over again with cash shop candy.
Oh and esports are not sports. is that is a sport then eating contests are considered sports.
The only thing that is better with this generation of payment models is that I can get a feel for the games before I buy them. Although most of them are exactly what I expect them to be........crap.
But I think that the payment models are the symptom of poor game quality, not the other way around.
We all have our theories as to why the quality of MMOs has gone in the crapper. The one im a subscriber to is the theory that the vast majority of the people that play MMOs dont infact want to play MMOs. They want twitch style combat with cut scene after cut scene thrown in every 15 mins of game play.
All while they ding lvl after lvl as quick as they can to get the next hot piece of gear/weapon/skill lvl to blast through more lvls to the same end till they beat the game. And they want the best of the best graphics and A list star voice overs with amazing combat animations, and they want it for free. The never ending free preview. So how do companies make they money back? Cash shops.
The poor game quality came from the need of gaming companies to capitalize on the influx of "new" people to the genre and to that end started pumping out copies of the same popular style of game play (wow) that brought these new players into the genre.
Yep. What could have been a cash cow is pretty much being turned into a cash grab.
I sincerely doubt that the game is good to a point where you'll be happy to pay for patron status along with shelling out massive bucks for the cash shop labor pots. Even if it is for some people, they will be a minority that will NOT be able to compensate for the masses that won't be cool with being treated like second class while paying for patron status. The current outrage, I think, while limited in scope (not a whole lot of us complaining, and just as many defending Trion) will only have the capacity to grow if and when the game is out with current systems in place.
I bet so many people don't even know or realize how bad this is. But they will find out. And when that realization kicks in we'll just slip into a massive yet steady suscriber bleed, content droughts and making "why AA failed" articles.
We don't play mmo's so people with crazy amounts of money to burn can show how better they are than everyone. Enogh of that in the real world.
Nicely said.
As for the main thread, AA is not becoming P2W it is from the start. Can say a lot of things ,but facts speak for them self :
- F2P players cant play at all. For 5 h online you get 300 LP which u spent in 10 min gardening. So what f2p players can do the other 4h and 50 min, jump around in main cities of course or do all the things you can do in every other game.
- Subscriber is nice i can have a house ,a garden and a lot of LP . But wait again , lets say i want to do only things like fishing, farming, crafting etc. If i play 5 h per day even i pay a fee per month i still lack LP to do the things i want ! And then what? Answer - spent more $ at cash shop for lp pots every day. But mommy i already payed for that game!
So no, this is really not P2W game , it is pay to us every day game or you cant play. Made some calculations for my self and 30 euros per month is what i have to pay to play normally. And finally if you decide to take a break for a month it is pointless to come back cos house , farm every thing will be gone and i must start all over again.
As for the main thread, AA is not becoming P2W it is from the start. Can say a lot of things ,but facts speak for them self :
- F2P players cant play at all. For 5 h online you get 300 LP which u spent in 10 min gardening. So what f2p players can do the other 4h and 50 min, jump around in main cities of course or do all the things you can do in every other game.
- Subscriber is nice i can have a house ,a garden and a lot of LP . But wait again , lets say i want to do only things like fishing, farming, crafting etc. If i play 5 h per day even i pay a fee per month i still lack LP to do the things i want ! And then what? Answer - spent more $ at cash shop for lp pots every day. But mommy i already payed for that game!
So no, this is really not P2W game , it is pay to us every day game or you cant play. Made some calculations for my self and 30 euros per month is what i have to pay to play normally. And finally if you decide to take a break for a month it is pointless to come back cos house , farm every thing will be gone and i must start all over again.
Paying again and again.
Very good summary. This is the problem. The game is not F2P, not P2P and not even P2W. It is optimized for extracting the maximum amount of cash from the player base.
As for the main thread, AA is not becoming P2W it is from the start. Can say a lot of things ,but facts speak for them self :
- F2P players cant play at all. For 5 h online you get 300 LP which u spent in 10 min gardening. So what f2p players can do the other 4h and 50 min, jump around in main cities of course or do all the things you can do in every other game.
- Subscriber is nice i can have a house ,a garden and a lot of LP . But wait again , lets say i want to do only things like fishing, farming, crafting etc. If i play 5 h per day even i pay a fee per month i still lack LP to do the things i want ! And then what? Answer - spent more $ at cash shop for lp pots every day. But mommy i already payed for that game!
So no, this is really not P2W game , it is pay to us every day game or you cant play. Made some calculations for my self and 30 euros per month is what i have to pay to play normally. And finally if you decide to take a break for a month it is pointless to come back cos house , farm every thing will be gone and i must start all over again.
Paying again and again.
Very good summary. This is the problem. The game is not F2P, not P2P and not even P2W. It is optimized for extracting the maximum amount of cash from the player base.
If you don't like the pay model move on. You will feel better. There is lots of other games out there....and they are free.
Yep. What could have been a cash cow is pretty much being turned into a cash grab.
I sincerely doubt that the game is good to a point where you'll be happy to pay for patron status along with shelling out massive bucks for the cash shop labor pots. Even if it is for some people, they will be a minority that will NOT be able to compensate for the masses that won't be cool with being treated like second class while paying for patron status. The current outrage, I think, while limited in scope (not a whole lot of us complaining, and just as many defending Trion) will only have the capacity to grow if and when the game is out with current systems in place.
I bet so many people don't even know or realize how bad this is. But they will find out. And when that realization kicks in we'll just slip into a massive yet steady suscriber bleed, content droughts and making "why AA failed" articles.
We don't play mmo's so people with crazy amounts of money to burn can show how better they are than everyone. Enogh of that in the real world.
Nicely said.
As for the main thread, AA is not becoming P2W it is from the start. Can say a lot of things ,but facts speak for them self :
- F2P players cant play at all. For 5 h online you get 300 LP which u spent in 10 min gardening. So what f2p players can do the other 4h and 50 min, jump around in main cities of course or do all the things you can do in every other game.
- Subscriber is nice i can have a house ,a garden and a lot of LP . But wait again , lets say i want to do only things like fishing, farming, crafting etc. If i play 5 h per day even i pay a fee per month i still lack LP to do the things i want ! And then what? Answer - spent more $ at cash shop for lp pots every day. But mommy i already payed for that game!
So no, this is really not P2W game , it is pay to us every day game or you cant play. Made some calculations for my self and 30 euros per month is what i have to pay to play normally. And finally if you decide to take a break for a month it is pointless to come back cos house , farm every thing will be gone and i must start all over again.
Paying again and again.
Oh know, I am in an mmo and I have run out of labor points to do my gardening what shall I do now?
Let's see, try playing the game and do other things that don't take labor points. What a concept!
Sometimes people just dont understand some facts in a f2p game. Why do you think f2p players aka freeloader exist for? They exist so that you have people to play with, yes they do not contribute much or even non at all to the game financially but what do you need most in a mmo game? Players!!! They form your population... People to interact with, pvp with, instance or raid with, guild war with. Why do you think so many games shut down due to low population.
I agree you cannot give everything to them for free. But there must be a reasonable way for those players to continue playing that game. If you make a game pay system where they have no way to continue playing with progression ingame. There is only 2 solutions: move on to other games / subscribe to the game. And if they were the type who would subscribe they would have done so long ago, why go thru the torture. And go check which subscription game is doing fantastically well now with the exception for WoW due to its branding and legacy left behind.
And like previous post, u can burn thru LP in mins farming, item drops and quest rewards items need LP to identify from what some said. What are those players left to do?
Yep. What could have been a cash cow is pretty much being turned into a cash grab.
I sincerely doubt that the game is good to a point where you'll be happy to pay for patron status along with shelling out massive bucks for the cash shop labor pots. Even if it is for some people, they will be a minority that will NOT be able to compensate for the masses that won't be cool with being treated like second class while paying for patron status. The current outrage, I think, while limited in scope (not a whole lot of us complaining, and just as many defending Trion) will only have the capacity to grow if and when the game is out with current systems in place.
I bet so many people don't even know or realize how bad this is. But they will find out. And when that realization kicks in we'll just slip into a massive yet steady suscriber bleed, content droughts and making "why AA failed" articles.
We don't play mmo's so people with crazy amounts of money to burn can show how better they are than everyone. Enogh of that in the real world.
Nicely said.
As for the main thread, AA is not becoming P2W it is from the start. Can say a lot of things ,but facts speak for them self :
- F2P players cant play at all. For 5 h online you get 300 LP which u spent in 10 min gardening. So what f2p players can do the other 4h and 50 min, jump around in main cities of course or do all the things you can do in every other game.
- Subscriber is nice i can have a house ,a garden and a lot of LP . But wait again , lets say i want to do only things like fishing, farming, crafting etc. If i play 5 h per day even i pay a fee per month i still lack LP to do the things i want ! And then what? Answer - spent more $ at cash shop for lp pots every day. But mommy i already payed for that game!
So no, this is really not P2W game , it is pay to us every day game or you cant play. Made some calculations for my self and 30 euros per month is what i have to pay to play normally. And finally if you decide to take a break for a month it is pointless to come back cos house , farm every thing will be gone and i must start all over again.
Paying again and again.
Oh know, I am in an mmo and I have run out of labor points to do my gardening what shall I do now?
Let's see, try playing the game and do other things that don't take labor points. What a concept!
Wait...what? What logic is this? A person is playing an MMO until they run headlong into a paywall and can go no further. So your answer is to play the game? Wasn't that what they were doing when they ran into the paywall?
Yea I think the people saying its not P2W have never even played this game or dont understand what the term means.
In my mind, being able to buy labor points is completely pay to win. Labor points=gold, gold=gear, better gear=p2w. Pretty simple math.
And if you have not played archeage, the best gear in the game is VERY hard to obtain, it requires a ton of gold, and being able to buy labor points is a huge advantage in getting this gear. It's not like wow where the pvp gear is just some stuff you buy with honor and everyones equal basically cause of caps/etc, in this game the best gear comes from crafting which requires an insane amount of labor points+an insane amount of gold.
Pretty sad about this cash shop -.-. There any many f2p games out there that are not pay to win, path of exile being the best example. You can only buy cosmetics/storage space/character slots etc. This is how archeage should have been. Even the xp boosts/etc are a bit stupid to me but I could live with that, but being able to just basically freely buy labor points is just another story.
Yea I think the people saying its not P2W have never even played this game or dont understand what the term means.
In my mind, being able to buy labor points is completely pay to win. Labor points=gold, gold=gear, better gear=p2w. Pretty simple math.
And if you have not played archeage, the best gear in the game is VERY hard to obtain, it requires a ton of gold, and being able to buy labor points is a huge advantage in getting this gear. It's not like wow where the pvp gear is just some stuff you buy with honor and everyones equal basically cause of caps/etc, in this game the best gear comes from crafting which requires an insane amount of labor points+an insane amount of gold.
Pretty sad about this cash shop -.-. There any many f2p games out there that are not pay to win, path of exile being the best example. You can only buy cosmetics/storage space/character slots etc. This is how archeage should have been. Even the xp boosts/etc are a bit stupid to me but I could live with that, but being able to just basically freely buy labor points is just another story.
Hope to see some changes in the future.
Exactly, people in this thread who says that AA isn't P2W because there's no weapons/armors in the CS are retarded and never played the game. Labor potions are op as fuck at the moment. You can get around 12k labor points a day with those potions because they are not restrict account wide but by character. Limit of character: 4 per server and a total of 6. 6*2LP=12 000 labor points a day. And what people don't understand is EVERYTHING cost labor in this game. Opening armors set? Labor. Opening bags? Labors. Crafting gears? Labor. Farming, planting, gathering? Labor.
So if you have 12k labor to spend per day and the regular guy have 5k per 2-3 days, who's gonna be better prepared to fuck you up in pvp?
Originally posted by RaZKaLz Originally posted by FearTHeFroYea I think the people saying its not P2W have never even played this game or dont understand what the term means.In my mind, being able to buy labor points is completely pay to win. Labor points=gold, gold=gear, better gear=p2w. Pretty simple math.And if you have not played archeage, the best gear in the game is VERY hard to obtain, it requires a ton of gold, and being able to buy labor points is a huge advantage in getting this gear. It's not like wow where the pvp gear is just some stuff you buy with honor and everyones equal basically cause of caps/etc, in this game the best gear comes from crafting which requires an insane amount of labor points+an insane amount of gold.Pretty sad about this cash shop -.-. There any many f2p games out there that are not pay to win, path of exile being the best example. You can only buy cosmetics/storage space/character slots etc. This is how archeage should have been. Even the xp boosts/etc are a bit stupid to me but I could live with that, but being able to just basically freely buy labor points is just another story.Hope to see some changes in the future.
Exactly, people in this thread who says that AA isn't P2W because there's no weapons/armors in the CS are retarded and never played the game. Labor potions are op as fuck at the moment. You can get around 12k labor points a day with those potions because they are not restrict account wide but by character. Limit of character: 4 per server and a total of 6. 6*2LP=12 000 labor points a day. And what people don't understand is EVERYTHING cost labor in this game. Opening armors set? Labor. Opening bags? Labors. Crafting gears? Labor. Farming, planting, gathering? Labor.
So if you have 12k labor to spend per day and the regular guy have 5k per 2-3 days, who's gonna be better prepared to fuck you up in pvp?
I read this entire thread but your post is the bottom line on why this current design is a pay to win.
I will make a prediction here that is 6 months the most powerful guild on any server will be the one with the most subscriber members and those that use the cash shop to get minor boosts.
Not only will they be the most powerful but they will also have the most influence on developers content.
The reason is that they are paying the most to keep the servers running.
It happened already.
Yes, it is P2W but players are blinded because the advantages are not quite so visible.
Originally posted by FearTHeFroYea I think the people saying its not P2W have never even played this game or dont understand what the term means.In my mind, being able to buy labor points is completely pay to win. Labor points=gold, gold=gear, better gear=p2w. Pretty simple math.And if you have not played archeage, the best gear in the game is VERY hard to obtain, it requires a ton of gold, and being able to buy labor points is a huge advantage in getting this gear. It's not like wow where the pvp gear is just some stuff you buy with honor and everyones equal basically cause of caps/etc, in this game the best gear comes from crafting which requires an insane amount of labor points+an insane amount of gold.Pretty sad about this cash shop -.-. There any many f2p games out there that are not pay to win, path of exile being the best example. You can only buy cosmetics/storage space/character slots etc. This is how archeage should have been. Even the xp boosts/etc are a bit stupid to me but I could live with that, but being able to just basically freely buy labor points is just another story.Hope to see some changes in the future.
Exactly, people in this thread who says that AA isn't P2W because there's no weapons/armors in the CS are retarded and never played the game. Labor potions are op as fuck at the moment. You can get around 12k labor points a day with those potions because they are not restrict account wide but by character. Limit of character: 4 per server and a total of 6. 6*2LP=12 000 labor points a day. And what people don't understand is EVERYTHING cost labor in this game. Opening armors set? Labor. Opening bags? Labors. Crafting gears? Labor. Farming, planting, gathering? Labor.
So if you have 12k labor to spend per day and the regular guy have 5k per 2-3 days, who's gonna be better prepared to fuck you up in pvp?
I read this entire thread but your post is the bottom line on why this current design is a pay to win.
I will make a prediction here that is 6 months the most powerful guild on any server will be the one with the most subscriber members and those that use the cash shop to get ‘minor’ boosts.
Not only will they be the most powerful but they will also have the most influence on developers content.
The reason is that they are paying the most to keep the servers running.
It happened already.
Yes, it is P2W but players are blinded because the advantages are not quite so visible.
Can you explain how its pay to play? What advantage does paying get you that a person who doesnt pay cant get?
Originally posted by FearTHeFroYea I think the people saying its not P2W have never even played this game or dont understand what the term means.In my mind, being able to buy labor points is completely pay to win. Labor points=gold, gold=gear, better gear=p2w. Pretty simple math.And if you have not played archeage, the best gear in the game is VERY hard to obtain, it requires a ton of gold, and being able to buy labor points is a huge advantage in getting this gear. It's not like wow where the pvp gear is just some stuff you buy with honor and everyones equal basically cause of caps/etc, in this game the best gear comes from crafting which requires an insane amount of labor points+an insane amount of gold.Pretty sad about this cash shop -.-. There any many f2p games out there that are not pay to win, path of exile being the best example. You can only buy cosmetics/storage space/character slots etc. This is how archeage should have been. Even the xp boosts/etc are a bit stupid to me but I could live with that, but being able to just basically freely buy labor points is just another story.Hope to see some changes in the future.
Exactly, people in this thread who says that AA isn't P2W because there's no weapons/armors in the CS are retarded and never played the game. Labor potions are op as fuck at the moment. You can get around 12k labor points a day with those potions because they are not restrict account wide but by character. Limit of character: 4 per server and a total of 6. 6*2LP=12 000 labor points a day. And what people don't understand is EVERYTHING cost labor in this game. Opening armors set? Labor. Opening bags? Labors. Crafting gears? Labor. Farming, planting, gathering? Labor.
So if you have 12k labor to spend per day and the regular guy have 5k per 2-3 days, who's gonna be better prepared to fuck you up in pvp?
I read this entire thread but your post is the bottom line on why this current design is a pay to win.
I will make a prediction here that is 6 months the most powerful guild on any server will be the one with the most subscriber members and those that use the cash shop to get ‘minor’ boosts.
Not only will they be the most powerful but they will also have the most influence on developers content.
The reason is that they are paying the most to keep the servers running.
It happened already.
Yes, it is P2W but players are blinded because the advantages are not quite so visible.
Can you explain how its pay to play? What advantage does paying get you that a person who doesnt pay cant get?
- Ability to use scarecrow to claim farms,
- Ability to claim land and have house,
- Twice as much online labor point regeneration,
- Labor point regeneration while offline,
- Increased labor point limit,
- 10% experience bonus,
- Ability to post items on auction house.
Whoa, that was just patron (subscription) stuff. Funny things are just starting, these are highlights from cash shop:
- Vocation potion (experience gained from vocation activities + 100% for 1h, again progress),
- Tax certificates (used to pay tax for house/farm, this is straight up in-game gold since you don't have to spend your resources to craft them on your own),
- Tonics for reducing infamy/crime points,
- Expansion scrolls for bank/bags,
- Building appraisal - ability to sell your land,
- Mount food (gives 50k exp),
Of course that's not all, there is more stuff available for $$$.
I'm happy with my subscription game currently. All these f2p, hybrids, with their cash shops and strange way to pay for this and that. People telling you what is and what isn't P2W. New content that is mainly for random crap on the store.
I just want to pay a sub and play the damn game.
Aye just pay your sub and you have everything
It seems that the people who just want everything for free are now saying we are wallet warriors and pay to win scrubs
I have been in alpha and checked the cash shop and dint find a single pay to win item.
Labor pots have a 12 hour cooldown and thats the only thing i could find :P
Yet i keep seeing these threads pop up with Pay to Win / Its not a sandpark / sandbox / generic questing / yadayadayada
Its 1 persistent world with zero loading screens and you can build tons of stuff.
The moment you created you char you can cross your continent the ocean and the other continent without a SINGLE loading screen.
You can build a farm / build your house / build your boat / build a castle
I stopped questing at level 30 and gained 20 levels on my farm !
I also have 4 sites bookmarked with spreadsheets so i can check up tons of stuff for playing the market and gather mats for cool stuff and wich products gives the most worms for fishing !
It aint Eve Online but its 100x better then Darkfall from Turbine who doesnt have a clue how to design their game.
I fell in love with this mmo months ago and the future of Archeage only brings more sandbox elements into the game.
Cant wait for the option to create your own faction and the Dwarfs !
This game is something tons of people have been waiting for
Yea I think the people saying its not P2W have never even played this game or dont understand what the term means.
In my mind, being able to buy labor points is completely pay to win. Labor points=gold, gold=gear, better gear=p2w. Pretty simple math.
And if you have not played archeage, the best gear in the game is VERY hard to obtain, it requires a ton of gold, and being able to buy labor points is a huge advantage in getting this gear. It's not like wow where the pvp gear is just some stuff you buy with honor and everyones equal basically cause of caps/etc, in this game the best gear comes from crafting which requires an insane amount of labor points+an insane amount of gold.
Pretty sad about this cash shop -.-. There any many f2p games out there that are not pay to win, path of exile being the best example. You can only buy cosmetics/storage space/character slots etc. This is how archeage should have been. Even the xp boosts/etc are a bit stupid to me but I could live with that, but being able to just basically freely buy labor points is just another story.
Hope to see some changes in the future.
Exactly, people in this thread who says that AA isn't P2W because there's no weapons/armors in the CS are retarded and never played the game. Labor potions are op as fuck at the moment. You can get around 12k labor points a day with those potions because they are not restrict account wide but by character. Limit of character: 4 per server and a total of 6. 6*2LP=12 000 labor points a day. And what people don't understand is EVERYTHING cost labor in this game. Opening armors set? Labor. Opening bags? Labors. Crafting gears? Labor. Farming, planting, gathering? Labor.
So if you have 12k labor to spend per day and the regular guy have 5k per 2-3 days, who's gonna be better prepared to fuck you up in pvp?
I guess I would agree if I actually cared. You can't really expect a f2p gamer to compete toe-to-toe with someone that can afford to spend money. From my experience the trend for all if not most f2p games is to give paying players a time advantage. Is this p2w? labor points do just that..provide a time advantage. The question than is whose time is worth more to trion? the guy that spends money or the guy that wants everything and wants it for free? My only gripe is that f2p gamers should be able to regen lp while offline even if its 1/min. Other than that the cash shop seems pretty consistent with things you'd find in most cash shops.
Comments
What you are talking about it's a commodity not a necessity. You want commodities? Pay for them. Also with scrolls it's much cheaper to get the bag extension. Before it scaled 50s, 1g, 5g, 10g, 25g, 50g. Now on the ah it's like 5-6g each. You lose 3.5g for the first 2 expansions compared to before...that's so p2w indeed! How dare they take my precious 3g and make me save 70g.
So GW2 has no Sub i think you can move along with this quote.
While I agree with you to a degree, it's not entirely the players fault. Too many half-assed MMOs have been released under that old payment model and simply were not a good value for that money. Much of the state of our payment options now stem from publishers trying to recover from their own failures.
I agree with the OP
PAY 2 Win .. or slightly have an advantage... you might still lose if you bad!
Leave grandpa Apoc alone...he's still upset people do not think his tastes are relevant anymore. He will go on and on and on even though the era of P2P died when devs plugged people into skinner boxes and unplugged them from virtual words ( so since EQ1 and WoW pretty much signaling the death of P2P ).
Oh and do not mention esports around him cause he will go on in length about how they shouldn't even be called sports.
You can make all the snide comments you want Dihour but you cant say that the payment models we have today are better then what they used to be. The content within this very thread is proof of that. Offer me a deal where i can attain everything in game for 15 a month or piece meal me items over and over again with cash shop candy.
Oh and esports are not sports. if that is a sport then eating contests are considered sports.
The only thing that is better with this generation of payment models is that I can get a feel for the games before I buy them. Although most of them are exactly what I expect them to be........crap.
But I think that the payment models are the symptom of poor game quality, not the other way around.
We all have our theories as to why the quality of MMOs has gone in the crapper. The one im a subscriber to is the theory that the vast majority of the people that play MMOs dont infact want to play MMOs. They want twitch style combat with cut scene after cut scene thrown in every 15 mins of game play.
All while they ding lvl after lvl as quick as they can to get the next hot piece of gear/weapon/skill lvl to blast through more lvls to the same end till they beat the game. And they want the best of the best graphics and A list star voice overs with amazing combat animations, and they want it for free. The never ending free preview. So how do companies make they money back? Cash shops.
The poor game quality came from the need of gaming companies to capitalize on the influx of "new" people to the genre and to that end started pumping out copies of the same popular style of game play (wow) that brought these new players into the genre.
Nicely said.
As for the main thread, AA is not becoming P2W it is from the start. Can say a lot of things ,but facts speak for them self :
- F2P players cant play at all. For 5 h online you get 300 LP which u spent in 10 min gardening. So what f2p players can do the other 4h and 50 min, jump around in main cities of course or do all the things you can do in every other game.
- Subscriber is nice i can have a house ,a garden and a lot of LP . But wait again , lets say i want to do only things like fishing, farming, crafting etc. If i play 5 h per day even i pay a fee per month i still lack LP to do the things i want ! And then what? Answer - spent more $ at cash shop for lp pots every day. But mommy i already payed for that game!
So no, this is really not P2W game , it is pay to us every day game or you cant play. Made some calculations for my self and 30 euros per month is what i have to pay to play normally. And finally if you decide to take a break for a month it is pointless to come back cos house , farm every thing will be gone and i must start all over again.
Paying again and again.
Need to take the word "officially" out of the title.
It is no such thing until Trion makes it so.
Thank you.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
Very good summary. This is the problem. The game is not F2P, not P2P and not even P2W. It is optimized for extracting the maximum amount of cash from the player base.
If you don't like the pay model move on. You will feel better. There is lots of other games out there....and they are free.
Oh know, I am in an mmo and I have run out of labor points to do my gardening what shall I do now?
Let's see, try playing the game and do other things that don't take labor points. What a concept!
Sometimes people just dont understand some facts in a f2p game. Why do you think f2p players aka freeloader exist for? They exist so that you have people to play with, yes they do not contribute much or even non at all to the game financially but what do you need most in a mmo game? Players!!! They form your population... People to interact with, pvp with, instance or raid with, guild war with. Why do you think so many games shut down due to low population.
I agree you cannot give everything to them for free. But there must be a reasonable way for those players to continue playing that game. If you make a game pay system where they have no way to continue playing with progression ingame. There is only 2 solutions: move on to other games / subscribe to the game. And if they were the type who would subscribe they would have done so long ago, why go thru the torture. And go check which subscription game is doing fantastically well now with the exception for WoW due to its branding and legacy left behind.
And like previous post, u can burn thru LP in mins farming, item drops and quest rewards items need LP to identify from what some said. What are those players left to do?
Wait...what? What logic is this? A person is playing an MMO until they run headlong into a paywall and can go no further. So your answer is to play the game? Wasn't that what they were doing when they ran into the paywall?
Yea I think the people saying its not P2W have never even played this game or dont understand what the term means.
In my mind, being able to buy labor points is completely pay to win. Labor points=gold, gold=gear, better gear=p2w. Pretty simple math.
And if you have not played archeage, the best gear in the game is VERY hard to obtain, it requires a ton of gold, and being able to buy labor points is a huge advantage in getting this gear. It's not like wow where the pvp gear is just some stuff you buy with honor and everyones equal basically cause of caps/etc, in this game the best gear comes from crafting which requires an insane amount of labor points+an insane amount of gold.
Pretty sad about this cash shop -.-. There any many f2p games out there that are not pay to win, path of exile being the best example. You can only buy cosmetics/storage space/character slots etc. This is how archeage should have been. Even the xp boosts/etc are a bit stupid to me but I could live with that, but being able to just basically freely buy labor points is just another story.
Hope to see some changes in the future.
Exactly, people in this thread who says that AA isn't P2W because there's no weapons/armors in the CS are retarded and never played the game. Labor potions are op as fuck at the moment. You can get around 12k labor points a day with those potions because they are not restrict account wide but by character. Limit of character: 4 per server and a total of 6. 6*2LP=12 000 labor points a day. And what people don't understand is EVERYTHING cost labor in this game. Opening armors set? Labor. Opening bags? Labors. Crafting gears? Labor. Farming, planting, gathering? Labor.
So if you have 12k labor to spend per day and the regular guy have 5k per 2-3 days, who's gonna be better prepared to fuck you up in pvp?
So if you have 12k labor to spend per day and the regular guy have 5k per 2-3 days, who's gonna be better prepared to fuck you up in pvp?
I read this entire thread but your post is the bottom line on why this current design is a pay to win.
I will make a prediction here that is 6 months the most powerful guild on any server will be the one with the most subscriber members and those that use the cash shop to get minor boosts.
Not only will they be the most powerful but they will also have the most influence on developers content.
The reason is that they are paying the most to keep the servers running.
It happened already.
Yes, it is P2W but players are blinded because the advantages are not quite so visible.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Can you explain how its pay to play? What advantage does paying get you that a person who doesnt pay cant get?
- Ability to use scarecrow to claim farms,
- Ability to claim land and have house,
- Twice as much online labor point regeneration,
- Labor point regeneration while offline,
- Increased labor point limit,
- 10% experience bonus,
- Ability to post items on auction house.
Whoa, that was just patron (subscription) stuff. Funny things are just starting, these are highlights from cash shop:
- Labor potions (1k labor points/12h CD, that's effectively 16h 40 minutes of free player's progress),
- Vocation potion (experience gained from vocation activities + 100% for 1h, again progress),
- Tax certificates (used to pay tax for house/farm, this is straight up in-game gold since you don't have to spend your resources to craft them on your own),
- Tonics for reducing infamy/crime points,
- Expansion scrolls for bank/bags,
- Building appraisal - ability to sell your land,
- Mount food (gives 50k exp),
Of course that's not all, there is more stuff available for $$$.
Aye just pay your sub and you have everything
It seems that the people who just want everything for free are now saying we are wallet warriors and pay to win scrubs
I have been in alpha and checked the cash shop and dint find a single pay to win item.
Labor pots have a 12 hour cooldown and thats the only thing i could find :P
Yet i keep seeing these threads pop up with Pay to Win / Its not a sandpark / sandbox / generic questing / yadayadayada
Its 1 persistent world with zero loading screens and you can build tons of stuff.
The moment you created you char you can cross your continent the ocean and the other continent without a SINGLE loading screen.
You can build a farm / build your house / build your boat / build a castle
I stopped questing at level 30 and gained 20 levels on my farm !
I also have 4 sites bookmarked with spreadsheets so i can check up tons of stuff for playing the market and gather mats for cool stuff and wich products gives the most worms for fishing !
It aint Eve Online but its 100x better then Darkfall from Turbine who doesnt have a clue how to design their game.
I fell in love with this mmo months ago and the future of Archeage only brings more sandbox elements into the game.
Cant wait for the option to create your own faction and the Dwarfs !
This game is something tons of people have been waiting for
I guess I would agree if I actually cared. You can't really expect a f2p gamer to compete toe-to-toe with someone that can afford to spend money. From my experience the trend for all if not most f2p games is to give paying players a time advantage. Is this p2w? labor points do just that..provide a time advantage. The question than is whose time is worth more to trion? the guy that spends money or the guy that wants everything and wants it for free? My only gripe is that f2p gamers should be able to regen lp while offline even if its 1/min. Other than that the cash shop seems pretty consistent with things you'd find in most cash shops.