as many others have said, the poll is woefully short on options.
to me:
if someone plays a f2p game as a big hunk of their weekly entertainment, and they CAN afford a few bucks to the cash shop or to a free/mium sub-like thing, but they choose not to, they might be deemed cheap or a freeloader. I have no problem paying a few bucks if i'm getting 15 hours a week using a service and i dont know why anyone else would. again this is for those who can afford but dont pay.
if someone can't afford a sub, and are playing a ftp game free because they cant really afford the free/mium sub or cash shop items, then that's fine with me and i hope they manage to get more money soon.
if someone pays over-the-top amounts of cash on a game (whales) then they might be better off with a subscription game that will hopefully only tap them for 15 a month. otherwise i have no problem with them. if they're doing it to exploit a p2w system however then not only are they asses, but the game is ass too... we are so beyond p2w!!
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
The only folks that annoy me are those who think they are gracing us with their presence and don't feel they should pay anything to play a MMORPG, regardless of payment model.
Those are real "freeloaders" in my book and yes, I am critical of them.
Why bother? If devs .. owners ... of the games don't mind freeloaders, and let them free-load. Why do you care?
I believe if devs actually had a crystal ball and could accurately predict who would never spend a dime on their game, most would kick them in a minute as a waste of bandwidth.
Unfortunately they have to let these folks leech in the hopes that some might eventually become payers.
No one in the world works for charity, people should be willing to pay for services rendered, its the right thing to do.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only folks that annoy me are those who think they are gracing us with their presence and don't feel they should pay anything to play a MMORPG, regardless of payment model.
Those are real "freeloaders" in my book and yes, I am critical of them.
Why bother? If devs .. owners ... of the games don't mind freeloaders, and let them free-load. Why do you care?
I believe if devs actually had a crystal ball and could accurately predict who would never spend a dime on their game, most would kick them in a minute as a waste of bandwidth.
Unfortunately they have to let these folks leech in the hopes that some might eventually become payers.
No one in the world works for charity, people should be willing to pay for services rendered, its the right thing to do.
I'm not advocating not paying but, if a paying player groups with a free player and they both have fun the company still wins in the end because the paying player keeps paying because they're having fun. Free players can serve as content in that way.
I still agree that people should pay for what they use so the game can improve, etc but I just wanted to point out that free players are a tool for the devs and not just a drain. Doesn't mean they should be proud of that fact :P
I also agree that the poll is too narrow. What if I want to be a scary giant pink water buffalo with lipstick on, or a gerbil who wears overalls? I hate limited polls.
If there's a situation where someone within the game is paying in-game currency to another player for cash shop currency, are you counting that as only the second person paying? Because both are contributing to getting cash to the game's owners.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
All people want is B2P. Just sell us the damn game and let us play it at OUR convenience. If your game is good, we'll buy your expansion, if not, we won't.
This is the way most computer games were before MMOs and DLC - I agree with this statement in part. Make a good game, sell it, make an expansion. Don't DLC me to death. Would this method work on an MMO platform? Maybe. Don't expect content updates at regular intervals, major fixes or tweaks etc to the game. You'll have to wait for the next expansion. That's roughly what I imagine our piddly $15 goes towards preventing. Waiting for things. - Wait, you feel that should be fixed for free? Devs don't think so, that was a major change, for the better, or worse. Not something that was broke and needed to be fixed. I think the sub model is fine. There are those who like it and those who don't.
It's just plain stupid to pay a sub fee for a game that isn't worthy of playing 24/7 365 days a year. Most games are worthy of the box price... not much more.
This is where I have issues with today's MMOs and those crying for F2P B2P and a lot of things in between. An MMO is supposed to be a living world that a player is a part of. These worlds need constant attention from both it's creators and players. Thus making the sub fee an acceptable part of being part of said world. MMOs fail to do this more recently. When was the last time you felt like you were somewhere else? Felt like you were your character? Felt like your choices mattered? I know some of this comes off as RPG ish, but are not most MMOs, MMORPGs? No matter how many quests I read, how much lore I track down, outside sources I delve into, some of today's games are no longer a story you can get involved with. This needs to change in order to make the MMO strong again. I understand and accept that I am playing a part in someone else's story, be it large or small. Stop making one million hero's with the exact same story line. -Save us %t , you're our only hope-
F2P just proves that even the DEVELOPERS know their game isn't worthy of a sub free. The fact that some fools think buying some items in the cash shop is going to get them one step closer to the Publisher's Clearance House Million Dollar Prize Award doesn't mean that it is so. If the game wasn't F2P... it would be a literal ghost town in a heart beat. What does that tell you? The game lacks, and lacks in a very big way. Sell it as a B2P game, you get your money, we get our game. Life goes on.
This, so much this. Should many of these games be B2P? Sure. Would I want to play them? Not really. As I mentioned about an MMORPG should be a massive living world. Most are currently a main town or a lobby where you gather your group, go do your task and head back to your lobby to rinse and repeat. Make a world. Make it worth being in and you can rest assured your game will be worth the box price plus the monthly fee.
Rinse/repeat.
In the end, he is not wrong. Make these games worth the fees you're asking. The rest, give us the box fee and try to make your extra content worth the time/money. Hell, half these so called MMOs today are just glorified single player games.
Welcome to 2014 and beyond. This is just the way it is.
Developers are still responsible for game-breaking bug fixes just as they are now... otherwise they won't sell the box. That's the funny thing, you think your $15 is going towards bug fixes, but it's not. They are obligated to fix those if they expect to sell more boxes. Now content updates, no, they are not obligated to do those between expansions. In fact, few do now, even those with sub fees. Most of the content they push out was already ready before release, they just held it back. it's not like on July 17th one second after a game is released they say to themselves, okay boys, time to get cracking on some new content for our subscribers. ROFL. It's already there, maybe not fully tested, but it's basically done.
Sure there is development time in expansions and all, but no way in hell does it involve your subscription fees. That's just pure profit on the game you already bought. You're going to be paying for the expansion just like everyone else. If you want to believe that sub is paying for an expansion in advance, well congratulations, your expansion just cost you $256 instead of $30. Was it worth $256? I highly doubt it.
You are right, the world is what we make of it... that doesn't mean what the developers decide to give us next. If it's not there already and we can't do anything different than we did the first go around, there's really nothing there to begin with. People seem to think content updates are a good thing... I see it as a sign of a game that severely lacks replayability without them. If you're crying for something to do 1 month in, that content update they're about to push isn't going to keep you going for that much longer than the whole game did before it was pushed. The world should offer us things to do, not tell us what to do... that's the problem with the MMOs now... it's all about checking off some item on a shopping list. Rare mount... check. 1 gazillion gold achievement... check. Wind 20 duels while naked achievement... check. Expose the entire map... check. We should be discovering things to do all on our very own... call them easter eggs if you want to... way to much go here and do this and you will get x achievements. Why not skin 12 rabbits just for the sake of skinning 12 rabbits? We don't need a damn achievement for it. We don't need to be told there is a rare this or that to be had... let us discover that on our own. These games are too led by the nostrils as it is. Time for them to return to their roots where things just happened because some player decided to do it.
There are lots of debates going about the Pay To Play and Free To Play models... But I still see a lot of hate against the F2P model (and for very understandable reasons too).
An argument we hear against the F2P model is that F2P games are in fact more expensive in the long run for the average player (as opposed to P2P where you will only be paying a set amount every month).
But proponents of the P2P model also say that F2P players are freeloaders.
There is definitely a contradiction here, as the average F2P player can either pay more or less than a P2P player.
So which is it?
I do not believe that the two are mutually exclusive. Why can't a freeloader be skilled? Most people with more money than sense can get themselves all the goodies in a game but that doesn't mean they know the first thing about what the hell they are doing. I am sure I am not the only one who has had a new guildie who obviously bought their toon off ebay or some other thing....
Originally posted by Nasa If i recall correctly most studies show that only 5-10% pay in F2P games. They are called whales (also in casinos), as they spend a lot of mony and actually pay for all.That is why the poll is too narrow
Months ago, someone here posted the results of a log file where he asked in channel, how much $ players were paying per month. Of those who responded, I'd say about 30% were paying $60 or more a month. Ya it was a hell of a lot more people and more $ than you might think. Humans like to consume.
Now, for a brand new game where everyone tries, I'm sure the % is a lot lower.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Nasa If i recall correctly most studies show that only 5-10% pay in F2P games. They are called whales (also in casinos), as they spend a lot of mony and actually pay for all.
That is why the poll is too narrow
Months ago, someone here posted the results of a log file where he asked in channel, how much $ players were paying per month. Of those who responded, I'd say about 30% were paying $60 or more a month. Ya it was a hell of a lot more people and more $ than you might think. Humans like to consume.
Now, for a brand new game where everyone tries, I'm sure the % is a lot lower.
That is the problem. You think most free players will bother to answer someone asking questions in channel?
You can find a real number unless you go to the company's data, or run a scientific survey.
Gamers playing F2P games are generally freeloaders. That does not mean it is bad. Just that the gamers have no commitments to the games with no money spent.
Eventually, a group of gamers who like particular games so much, they will spend money on the games and be "partially loyal" to the games. This subset will become the better payers for the games, to substain the games so other freeloaders can enjoy the games. Wee~~~~~
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
I have some games which are now f2p/sub and whilst I used to sub them now I tend to leave them on whatever the status is for ex subs and just either buy what I need or sub for a month now and then.
A couple I have on LTS so those I don't have to worry about and still get the monthly benefit, eve is subbed mind you and I might give eso a shot again at some point in the future.
It really depends on the player and on the game, if they make it to easy for f2p to get to the end un-aided then most will go along free but way to many moan at the slightest inconvenience when playing free and not on equal footing so that may be the problem.
I've raided in top guilds, I've goofed off in casual guilds. I've paid box+sub in some games I've paid subs in free games, I've paid nothing in other free games.
There isn't any classification someone could try and put me into that I don't have lots of examples of expections to their rules. I'm sure just about every other gamer could say the same thing.
There is no such thing as a f2p player or a p2p player because each game is handled on a case by case situation. Just because someone says they'll never do something today doesn't mean tomorrow they wont change their mind. All gamers should like playing games and people need to stop trying to lable others to feel better about the choices they make.
+1
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am a F2P person and I'll gladly admit I am a freeloader. The problem is the games I F2P are usually Cash Shop P2W and I will not Cash Shop. I REFUSE to Cash Shop. If they would offer me an all content subscription on the games I do F2P then I would be MORE than willing but even those games that do offer a subscription of some kind don't open the sub model to EVERYTHING they open up the sub model to more than F2P and then still try and get even subbers into the Cash Shop with things like boosts and other types of items not obtainable by subbing alone.
I will NOT play the game how the developers are trying to make me play it by nickel and diming me. I will play it how I best enjoy the game.
I'm a b2p guy. I like paying for something and receiving what I paid for. I like being able to support a developer when I feel that they deserve it, when I can afford it, and with the precise product that I want in return. It is the perfect model.
I do NOT like being exploited by a badly done f2p model and I DEFINITELY do not like paying for nothing every month. Seriously. What would I be paying for in a subscription game? Patches? That's to be expected and I get those from f2p and b2p titles with the same frequency and quality. Servers? Don't make me laugh. Expansions? Oh wait, they usually charge for that on top of the subscription fee. Guess I'm at a loss then.
I think rather than the current herd of run to F2P that they seem to be doing .. I'd prefer being given the option to go for a lifetime sub. Sure it could go like TSW but I still get get benefits each month etc so no need to pay for anything still.
If more games did that then they would have more who were effectively sub players and then since paid up ages ago had spare cash to spend if they rent F2P and added a shop, meaning on top of whatever sub benefits you got, you'd have monthly cash shop allowance plus whatever you added to gain an extra boost on top of that.
Free to play always ends up costing me a lot more.
Because I have far more cash then I have self-control, and that is a bad combo.
But after opening up a couple of hundred dollars worth of "lucky bag" or whatever the hell they call them in such games I feel kind of unclean.
I never gamble, but in these games I kind of do, because they turn them into casinos, that do not even pay in cash.
And when you realize that, immersion dies fast, and you leave.
But you have paid something like 2 years worth of subs in 2 months.
Yes they are MMO's.
Mo Money Online.
I do not like them but yes, in my case F2P is way better payers!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a gamer first and foremost and pay models have as little relevance to me as a screw is to a hammer. :P
I'll play those games I am interested in and pay as needed. The game aspects are more important to me than how much is needed to play. I'll pay sub until I feel the game has nothing left to offer me.
As for the poll, it's flawed by the premise of the question.
I'm With you whisperwynd. I really do not care about the pay model. I only ask if it's fun and if I'mwilling to pay what is required for me to have fun.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
There are players that are usually be taunted as content locust, they consume a bit of the content, then skip out before the end game starts. They don't want to socialize or beat a game, but just kill their boredom for a few hours without putting any effort into it, then move on to the next free thing. Kind of like switching through the tv channels because you got nothing else to do - and it's free.
And there are player that want to play the game for real - and those ofc have to pay for the content locusts, too.
Content locusts are usually play the game super hard, as far as I understand. The guys that consume any content within a day or two of it being released and then sit around moaning that they are bored. These are the guys that are making the industry move somewhat over to sandbox elements.
I think what you are talking about would be better described as casual tourists.
Even though this could turn into a troll thread I will post my reply. I have been on both sides of this battle as a subscriber/patron, and a F2P member.
There are some pay to play people who think F2P players are freeloaders. But that cant be further from the truth. Most of the F2P players that I know including myself tend to spend a lot more then $15 dollars a month on the games we play. The cash shops is usually where F2P players spend their money. The snobish attitude of some subscribers these days has made this turn into a major issue.
There are 2 kinds of F2P players and it depends on the game, subs, and store.
Freeloaders: F2P players who never spend a dime in the game or no more then $5 one time in a games life. Example is like SWTOR, pay $5 and get preferred status that gives you as much as possible w/o a sub be you play 1 month or 5 years. They take up game assets, they crowd areas, they flood the markets, and they don't pay to help support new content that they still expect access to.
Non freeloaders: They don't have a sub, maybe F2P in those games have full access to the same content Subs get but minus a few other perks (Rift as example). Yet they pay for cash shop things only as needed but spend a regular amount maybe $5-10 a month while a Sub probably gets $5 worth of store credits a month for their $15+ a month. The F2P spends less and probably plays less so it makes a bit more sense. They are contributing financially to the game through the store at regular intervals but are paying more for the stuff they want and paying less then Subs.
To me I see most F2P players are the freeloader type, but not all are. But like I said, it depends also on the games model. Is a Sub really not something of solid worth and/or does the game push people into having to make store purchases to really advance and move in a game?
I personally hate the F2P model, not because I hate F2P players but because F2P games more and more force players into spending far more then a Sub would cost to access a lot of content in games, like Neverwinter Online where simple things like bagspace is $10 for another bag. Also though many F2P act as welfare queens. They demand and demand but never put a dime in to give them a right to demand. This has made F2P a form of gamer welfare system. The good aspect is F2P is just being able to try a new game to a reasonable point to see if its worthwhile, but a simple 14 day free trial could solve that.
I personally hate the F2P model, not because I hate F2P players but because F2P games more and more force players into spending far more then a Sub would cost to access a lot of content in games, like Neverwinter Online where simple things like bagspace is $10 for another bag. Also though many F2P act as welfare queens. They demand and demand but never put a dime in to give them a right to demand. This has made F2P a form of gamer welfare system. The good aspect is F2P is just being able to try a new game to a reasonable point to see if its worthwhile, but a simple 14 day free trial could solve that.
The issue for the current years are - gamers who no longer are willing to play for a sub, and very young gamers who do not have access to credit cards, but has unlimited internet bandwidth. There may be others, but mainly it is these two.
One thing I wish to highlight is Neverwinter, while it is highly catered to P2W gamers, does not require of spending any money, and yet allows gamers to access all the game's content. It is just that gamers who are willing to pay real money for stuff, get their items much faster than those who slave away to grind for Astral Diamonds (in-game currency mainly for auction).
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
I do of course understand any analogy involving freebies being freeloaders but how does it ever become a "better player"?
Being a better player has imo 3 proponents of which each can be argued.
These are what i believe are the 3 proponents of being a better player.
1 SERIOUS,gets things done,always wants to win and be the best.
2 A great team player,always helpful,tries to never get mad,patient and willing to listen.
3 A player who knows only FUN,doesn't matter if he and the team dies as long as he/she is having fun that is all that matters
You can even add a 4th proponent of which would be a player who carries some of each category.So you can see there is no set definition of BETTER player,everyone would have a different opinion.
IMO what should be argued is which of the two "freeloader" or "paid player" are using more common sense or intelligence.
This again carries several proponents,example a player with little to no money to spend would be foolish if spending what he doesn't really have,example Credit Card use.If a player has tons of money to waste he can spend foolishly which in turn can ruin an entire design because of a developer sees easy money targets they "might" abuse them ruining it for everyone else.
Bottom line is it comes down to trust,know your developer.Is the developer one who just takes as much money as it can get and gives nothing back,are the ya developer who is always listening or trying to be fair.A Perfect example is SOE,they are not listening nor are they fair and they have proven this over several games and how they conduct their business.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
as many others have said, the poll is woefully short on options.
to me:
if someone plays a f2p game as a big hunk of their weekly entertainment, and they CAN afford a few bucks to the cash shop or to a free/mium sub-like thing, but they choose not to, they might be deemed cheap or a freeloader. I have no problem paying a few bucks if i'm getting 15 hours a week using a service and i dont know why anyone else would. again this is for those who can afford but dont pay.
if someone can't afford a sub, and are playing a ftp game free because they cant really afford the free/mium sub or cash shop items, then that's fine with me and i hope they manage to get more money soon.
if someone pays over-the-top amounts of cash on a game (whales) then they might be better off with a subscription game that will hopefully only tap them for 15 a month. otherwise i have no problem with them. if they're doing it to exploit a p2w system however then not only are they asses, but the game is ass too... we are so beyond p2w!!
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
I believe if devs actually had a crystal ball and could accurately predict who would never spend a dime on their game, most would kick them in a minute as a waste of bandwidth.
Unfortunately they have to let these folks leech in the hopes that some might eventually become payers.
No one in the world works for charity, people should be willing to pay for services rendered, its the right thing to do.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not advocating not paying but, if a paying player groups with a free player and they both have fun the company still wins in the end because the paying player keeps paying because they're having fun. Free players can serve as content in that way.
I still agree that people should pay for what they use so the game can improve, etc but I just wanted to point out that free players are a tool for the devs and not just a drain. Doesn't mean they should be proud of that fact :P
Developers are still responsible for game-breaking bug fixes just as they are now... otherwise they won't sell the box. That's the funny thing, you think your $15 is going towards bug fixes, but it's not. They are obligated to fix those if they expect to sell more boxes. Now content updates, no, they are not obligated to do those between expansions. In fact, few do now, even those with sub fees. Most of the content they push out was already ready before release, they just held it back. it's not like on July 17th one second after a game is released they say to themselves, okay boys, time to get cracking on some new content for our subscribers. ROFL. It's already there, maybe not fully tested, but it's basically done.
Sure there is development time in expansions and all, but no way in hell does it involve your subscription fees. That's just pure profit on the game you already bought. You're going to be paying for the expansion just like everyone else. If you want to believe that sub is paying for an expansion in advance, well congratulations, your expansion just cost you $256 instead of $30. Was it worth $256? I highly doubt it.
You are right, the world is what we make of it... that doesn't mean what the developers decide to give us next. If it's not there already and we can't do anything different than we did the first go around, there's really nothing there to begin with. People seem to think content updates are a good thing... I see it as a sign of a game that severely lacks replayability without them. If you're crying for something to do 1 month in, that content update they're about to push isn't going to keep you going for that much longer than the whole game did before it was pushed. The world should offer us things to do, not tell us what to do... that's the problem with the MMOs now... it's all about checking off some item on a shopping list. Rare mount... check. 1 gazillion gold achievement... check. Wind 20 duels while naked achievement... check. Expose the entire map... check. We should be discovering things to do all on our very own... call them easter eggs if you want to... way to much go here and do this and you will get x achievements. Why not skin 12 rabbits just for the sake of skinning 12 rabbits? We don't need a damn achievement for it. We don't need to be told there is a rare this or that to be had... let us discover that on our own. These games are too led by the nostrils as it is. Time for them to return to their roots where things just happened because some player decided to do it.
I do not believe that the two are mutually exclusive. Why can't a freeloader be skilled? Most people with more money than sense can get themselves all the goodies in a game but that doesn't mean they know the first thing about what the hell they are doing. I am sure I am not the only one who has had a new guildie who obviously bought their toon off ebay or some other thing....
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Months ago, someone here posted the results of a log file where he asked in channel, how much $ players were paying per month. Of those who responded, I'd say about 30% were paying $60 or more a month. Ya it was a hell of a lot more people and more $ than you might think. Humans like to consume.
Now, for a brand new game where everyone tries, I'm sure the % is a lot lower.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
That is the problem. You think most free players will bother to answer someone asking questions in channel?
You can find a real number unless you go to the company's data, or run a scientific survey.
Gamers playing F2P games are generally freeloaders. That does not mean it is bad. Just that the gamers have no commitments to the games with no money spent.
Eventually, a group of gamers who like particular games so much, they will spend money on the games and be "partially loyal" to the games. This subset will become the better payers for the games, to substain the games so other freeloaders can enjoy the games. Wee~~~~~
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
I have some games which are now f2p/sub and whilst I used to sub them now I tend to leave them on whatever the status is for ex subs and just either buy what I need or sub for a month now and then.
A couple I have on LTS so those I don't have to worry about and still get the monthly benefit, eve is subbed mind you and I might give eso a shot again at some point in the future.
It really depends on the player and on the game, if they make it to easy for f2p to get to the end un-aided then most will go along free but way to many moan at the slightest inconvenience when playing free and not on equal footing so that may be the problem.
Developers who cave in to easily
+1
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am a F2P person and I'll gladly admit I am a freeloader. The problem is the games I F2P are usually Cash Shop P2W and I will not Cash Shop. I REFUSE to Cash Shop. If they would offer me an all content subscription on the games I do F2P then I would be MORE than willing but even those games that do offer a subscription of some kind don't open the sub model to EVERYTHING they open up the sub model to more than F2P and then still try and get even subbers into the Cash Shop with things like boosts and other types of items not obtainable by subbing alone.
I will NOT play the game how the developers are trying to make me play it by nickel and diming me. I will play it how I best enjoy the game.
the problem with this poll is that you are dealing with absolutes. "are f2p players this or that"? is the wrong question
you have to view this in percentages.
and afaik the most widely acepted percentage for this industry is:
70% are complete freeloaders
20% fall in the range between [much worse, equal] payers
10% fall in the range between [better, whale] payers
I'm a b2p guy. I like paying for something and receiving what I paid for. I like being able to support a developer when I feel that they deserve it, when I can afford it, and with the precise product that I want in return. It is the perfect model.
I do NOT like being exploited by a badly done f2p model and I DEFINITELY do not like paying for nothing every month. Seriously. What would I be paying for in a subscription game? Patches? That's to be expected and I get those from f2p and b2p titles with the same frequency and quality. Servers? Don't make me laugh. Expansions? Oh wait, they usually charge for that on top of the subscription fee. Guess I'm at a loss then.
I think rather than the current herd of run to F2P that they seem to be doing .. I'd prefer being given the option to go for a lifetime sub. Sure it could go like TSW but I still get get benefits each month etc so no need to pay for anything still.
If more games did that then they would have more who were effectively sub players and then since paid up ages ago had spare cash to spend if they rent F2P and added a shop, meaning on top of whatever sub benefits you got, you'd have monthly cash shop allowance plus whatever you added to gain an extra boost on top of that.
Free to play always ends up costing me a lot more.
Because I have far more cash then I have self-control, and that is a bad combo.
But after opening up a couple of hundred dollars worth of "lucky bag" or whatever the hell they call them in such games I feel kind of unclean.
I never gamble, but in these games I kind of do, because they turn them into casinos, that do not even pay in cash.
And when you realize that, immersion dies fast, and you leave.
But you have paid something like 2 years worth of subs in 2 months.
Yes they are MMO's.
Mo Money Online.
I do not like them but yes, in my case F2P is way better payers!
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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I'm a gamer first and foremost and pay models have as little relevance to me as a screw is to a hammer. :P
I'll play those games I am interested in and pay as needed. The game aspects are more important to me than how much is needed to play. I'll pay sub until I feel the game has nothing left to offer me.
As for the poll, it's flawed by the premise of the question.
Content locusts are usually play the game super hard, as far as I understand. The guys that consume any content within a day or two of it being released and then sit around moaning that they are bored. These are the guys that are making the industry move somewhat over to sandbox elements.
I think what you are talking about would be better described as casual tourists.
Even though this could turn into a troll thread I will post my reply. I have been on both sides of this battle as a subscriber/patron, and a F2P member.
There are some pay to play people who think F2P players are freeloaders. But that cant be further from the truth. Most of the F2P players that I know including myself tend to spend a lot more then $15 dollars a month on the games we play. The cash shops is usually where F2P players spend their money. The snobish attitude of some subscribers these days has made this turn into a major issue.
There are 2 kinds of F2P players and it depends on the game, subs, and store.
Freeloaders: F2P players who never spend a dime in the game or no more then $5 one time in a games life. Example is like SWTOR, pay $5 and get preferred status that gives you as much as possible w/o a sub be you play 1 month or 5 years. They take up game assets, they crowd areas, they flood the markets, and they don't pay to help support new content that they still expect access to.
Non freeloaders: They don't have a sub, maybe F2P in those games have full access to the same content Subs get but minus a few other perks (Rift as example). Yet they pay for cash shop things only as needed but spend a regular amount maybe $5-10 a month while a Sub probably gets $5 worth of store credits a month for their $15+ a month. The F2P spends less and probably plays less so it makes a bit more sense. They are contributing financially to the game through the store at regular intervals but are paying more for the stuff they want and paying less then Subs.
To me I see most F2P players are the freeloader type, but not all are. But like I said, it depends also on the games model. Is a Sub really not something of solid worth and/or does the game push people into having to make store purchases to really advance and move in a game?
I personally hate the F2P model, not because I hate F2P players but because F2P games more and more force players into spending far more then a Sub would cost to access a lot of content in games, like Neverwinter Online where simple things like bagspace is $10 for another bag. Also though many F2P act as welfare queens. They demand and demand but never put a dime in to give them a right to demand. This has made F2P a form of gamer welfare system. The good aspect is F2P is just being able to try a new game to a reasonable point to see if its worthwhile, but a simple 14 day free trial could solve that.
The issue for the current years are - gamers who no longer are willing to play for a sub, and very young gamers who do not have access to credit cards, but has unlimited internet bandwidth. There may be others, but mainly it is these two.
One thing I wish to highlight is Neverwinter, while it is highly catered to P2W gamers, does not require of spending any money, and yet allows gamers to access all the game's content. It is just that gamers who are willing to pay real money for stuff, get their items much faster than those who slave away to grind for Astral Diamonds (in-game currency mainly for auction).
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
I do of course understand any analogy involving freebies being freeloaders but how does it ever become a "better player"?
Being a better player has imo 3 proponents of which each can be argued.
These are what i believe are the 3 proponents of being a better player.
1 SERIOUS,gets things done,always wants to win and be the best.
2 A great team player,always helpful,tries to never get mad,patient and willing to listen.
3 A player who knows only FUN,doesn't matter if he and the team dies as long as he/she is having fun that is all that matters
You can even add a 4th proponent of which would be a player who carries some of each category.So you can see there is no set definition of BETTER player,everyone would have a different opinion.
IMO what should be argued is which of the two "freeloader" or "paid player" are using more common sense or intelligence.
This again carries several proponents,example a player with little to no money to spend would be foolish if spending what he doesn't really have,example Credit Card use.If a player has tons of money to waste he can spend foolishly which in turn can ruin an entire design because of a developer sees easy money targets they "might" abuse them ruining it for everyone else.
Bottom line is it comes down to trust,know your developer.Is the developer one who just takes as much money as it can get and gives nothing back,are the ya developer who is always listening or trying to be fair.A Perfect example is SOE,they are not listening nor are they fair and they have proven this over several games and how they conduct their business.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.