Exactly why I don't play Square Enix games. Clueless publisher.
You would think with all the negative publicity they have had the past two years they would try to avoid more, but no, clueless as always.
What negative publicity? As far as I am aware, FF is doing great. Tomb Raider sold out and Nosgoth is killing it.
Some guy broke the law and you take their side. Funny, if they were patient by ONE day, they would have their, LEGITIMIT, copy of the game, localized for them.
Where have you been? FFIV flopped and was only just recently rereleased. That almost destroyed any reputation they had.
As to be illegal, depends on how you look at it and from what country you are viewing it. After the disaster with FFIV I would not touch one of their titles with a 10 fool pole.
I am guessing you mean XIV and in september it will have been around a hole year and yes 1.0 damaged their reputation. However they over the last year have done a very good job of rebounding from that. No copy right is law and they broke it. It's not greed to not want people to steal the product you made.
Just going to point out something, to my knowledge there was no theft. The team made an English patch, a mod which you must add to the actual game that will translate the content from Japanese to English. It's essentially no different from any other mods modifying content or settings of some video games, like the DSFix and DSMouse fix for Dark Souls PC which allowed a wider range of resolutions and settings as well as better mouse support that went beyond what the PC port supported.
True, but then people would either pirate the Japanese version of the game, or purchase it for a price lower than the English-translated version being released, thereby costing Square sales.
If the people who worked on the patch simply released it without being contacted by Square beforehand, then I might feel a bit more sympathy for them. However, they were told to stop before work was complete, refused to do so and arrogantly taunted Square ("We're in Spain you can't stop us, nyah nyah!"). IMO they got what they deserved. You don't thumb your nose at a madman holding a machine gun unless you've got some damn good body armor, and the rather silly belief that a multinational company for some reason can't act beyond the borders of its home nation doesn't count.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Just going to point out something, to my knowledge there was no theft. The team made an English patch, a mod which you must add to the actual game that will translate the content from Japanese to English. It's essentially no different from any other mods modifying content or settings of some video games, like the DSFix and DSMouse fix for Dark Souls PC which allowed a wider range of resolutions and settings as well as better mouse support that went beyond what the PC port supported.
True, but then people would either pirate the Japanese version of the game, or purchase it for a price lower than the English-translated version being released, thereby costing Square sales.
If the people who worked on the patch simply released it without being contacted by Square beforehand, then I might feel a bit more sympathy for them. However, they were told to stop before work was complete, refused to do so and arrogantly taunted Square ("We're in Spain you can't stop us, nyah nyah!"). IMO they got what they deserved. You don't thumb your nose at a madman holding a machine gun unless you've got some damn good body armor, and the rather silly belief that a multinational company for some reason can't act beyond the borders of its home nation doesn't count.
But let's not forget that there were no signs whatsoever of SE publishing that game outside of Japan. It did not cost SE any sales as there were no sales outside of Japan to begin with. If anything, the possibility of an English patch simply raised more publicity and interest in FF Type-0 and likely why SE has finally decided to announce the game outside of Japan, albeit a day after the English patch was released.
It's the same thing with Phantasy Star Online 2 by SEGA which has yet to see the light in NA, but thanks to an English patch, NA players can play on the JP version and some players are even spending money on it (albeit after having to go through certain loops). Still, if a company shows no signs of releasing a game outside of Japan when the interest is clearly there, people will find a way around it. SE could've handled the situation with the modders much better.
So, I was pissed at the fact that they suckered me into $80 the first time and are basically screwing me over again. I then contact the Better Business Bureau who then proceed to contact Square Enix -- and all this time, I'm simply asking for the trial time I'm due, a mere 12 days of gametime. Still Square Enix refuses saying it's not their policy.
Funny thing about the BBB, they have no actual power. They keep things in a file, and contact the company in question, but ultimately, they cannot force a company to do anything. 99% of the time the things a company does to piss you off you agreed to in their Terms of Service, so pretty much no one can do anything. The best I can recommend is thoroughly read a Terms of Service before agreeing to it, especially if money is involved. Otherwise, you can find yourself holding the short end of a stick.
That attempt by Sky team was a blatant abuse of copyright and a no brainer and should not be argued in favor of ever because it breaks the law.
Okay - what law exactly? Please be specific because it has never been considered against the law (any law) to write a mod as far as I am aware?
You can't simply say i don't live in your country so i don't abide by your rules then allow those very countries where the rules exist to download your stolen product.
What are you talking about exactly? The Mod? The mod is not a stolen product. If players are using the mod on pirated copies of the game then the piracy is illegal sure... but the mod is a separate issue.
That is why we often see online content videos that state content is not allowed in your region or country.
Er... no. That's about control. It is in fact a 'restrictive trade practice' and is in itself illegal in some countries. It has been challenged successfully in court. Why? Supposing I own a Playstation (brought legally) and live in Australia. I take a holiday to the USA. While there I buy Playstation games (legally). Shouldn't I be able to take those games home and play them?
We live in a digital world now. Regional coding and staggered releases are outdated. The only reason USA developers still support them is because under US law people cannot return software under the 'shrink wrap' agreements once they open the box. This allows devs to release buggy games in the US and patch them later - while the consumer has no recourse. The problem is in many european (and other) countries they cannot get away with that. Consumers CAN return buggy software. Which is why I believe we still see staggered releases.
I sometimes do side with projects using other's content but ONLY if it is not trying to break the law or twist the law for monetary value or trying to mask itself as being a great idea when in reality made to cheat.A perfect example is add ons,a lot of the time they are simple cheats or ways to have an advantage on other players.
That's a whole other discussion and AFAIK nothing to do with this.
That attempt by Sky team was a blatant abuse of copyright and a no brainer and should not be argued in favor of ever because it breaks the law.
Okay - what law exactly? Please be specific because it has never been considered against the law (any law) to write a mod as far as I am aware?
Its called breach of copyright, and they were warned from the start that they were not allowed to do it. They ignored the warning and suffered the result of breaching copyright laws.
You can't simply say i don't live in your country so i don't abide by your rules then allow those very countries where the rules exist to download your stolen product.
What are you talking about exactly? The Mod? The mod is not a stolen product. If players are using the mod on pirated copies of the game then the piracy is illegal sure... but the mod is a separate issue.
the mod is an illegal product, using stolen IP in effect as they did not have permission of the IP's owners to make it. So yes, it is effectively theft.
That is why we often see online content videos that state content is not allowed in your region or country.
Er... no. That's about control. It is in fact a 'restrictive trade practice' and is in itself illegal in some countries. It has been challenged successfully in court. Why? Supposing I own a Playstation (brought legally) and live in Australia. I take a holiday to the USA. While there I buy Playstation games (legally). Shouldn't I be able to take those games home and play them?
We live in a digital world now. Regional coding and staggered releases are outdated. The only reason USA developers still support them is because under US law people cannot return software under the 'shrink wrap' agreements once they open the box. This allows devs to release buggy games in the US and patch them later - while the consumer has no recourse. The problem is in many european (and other) countries they cannot get away with that. Consumers CAN return buggy software. Which is why I believe we still see staggered releases.
Yes we live in an increasingly digitised world, but that just means that laws have had to be broadened to prevent such breaches of copyright, the fact that despite the 'modders' claims otherwise, they were prosecuted for breach of copyright etc. is a case in point.
I sometimes do side with projects using other's content but ONLY if it is not trying to break the law or twist the law for monetary value or trying to mask itself as being a great idea when in reality made to cheat.A perfect example is add ons,a lot of the time they are simple cheats or ways to have an advantage on other players.
That's a whole other discussion and AFAIK nothing to do with this.
My comments in Blue
Piracy is piracy, and when you breach copyright and attempt to flaunt the law, you have to be prepared for the consequences. Being Spanish doesnt apparently, make you immune from prosecution.
Hi, resident pirate (political party) here. Although I disagree with Square-Enix objectively, there is something you guys are missing here. So I will clarify the one thing I think you are all missing here:
For the Japanese, this goes beyond simple copyright laws, in their culture, this is about honor. That is also why in the steam versions of many games, the graphics are barely improved, because they don't want to offend the original artist by replacing his art. We must respect cultural differences and trust that evolution will deal away with the weakest link.
Which is not to say that I endorse piracy, quite the contrary, but piracy thrives on companies placing roadblocks preventing people from enjoying what they want to enjoy. In this day and age of digital download and increased accessibility, I find it hard to believe that these companies have a hard time translating games to release to other countries, citing uncertainty with sales potential, when a handful of modders in their basement can release an English patch of decent quality and then have their patch downloaded by 100,000 people in 4 days with word of mouth alone.
The harder they work on preventing piracy, the harder it is to play the game, the more people will pirate. Hell "pirates" already finish half the Ubisoft games by the time the legit consumer can actually play the game duo to server downtimes...on single player games
Originally posted by tabarjack
For the Japanese, this goes beyond simple copyright laws, in their culture, this is about honor. That is also why in the steam versions of many games, the graphics are barely improved, because they don't want to offend the original artist by replacing his art. We must respect cultural differences and trust that evolution will deal away with the weakest link.
In my culture this is not that big of a problem. So why should I adept and respect there culture instead of them mine?
Exactly why I don't play Square Enix games. Clueless publisher.
You would think with all the negative publicity they have had the past two years they would try to avoid more, but no, clueless as always.
What negative publicity? As far as I am aware, FF is doing great. Tomb Raider sold out and Nosgoth is killing it.
Some guy broke the law and you take their side. Funny, if they were patient by ONE day, they would have their, LEGITIMIT, copy of the game, localized for them.
Where have you been? FFIV flopped and was only just recently rereleased. That almost destroyed any reputation they had.
As to be illegal, depends on how you look at it and from what country you are viewing it. After the disaster with FFIV I would not touch one of their titles with a 10 fool pole.
I am guessing you mean XIV and in september it will have been around a hole year and yes 1.0 damaged their reputation. However they over the last year have done a very good job of rebounding from that. No copy right is law and they broke it. It's not greed to not want people to steal the product you made.
translating a game isnt breaking the law downloading the a game for free is
That attempt by Sky team was a blatant abuse of copyright and a no brainer and should not be argued in favor of ever because it breaks the law.
Okay - what law exactly? Please be specific because it has never been considered against the law (any law) to write a mod as far as I am aware?
Its called breach of copyright, and they were warned from the start that they were not allowed to do it. They ignored the warning and suffered the result of breaching copyright laws.
You can't simply say i don't live in your country so i don't abide by your rules then allow those very countries where the rules exist to download your stolen product.
What are you talking about exactly? The Mod? The mod is not a stolen product. If players are using the mod on pirated copies of the game then the piracy is illegal sure... but the mod is a separate issue.
the mod is an illegal product, using stolen IP in effect as they did not have permission of the IP's owners to make it. So yes, it is effectively theft.
...
My comments in Blue
Piracy is piracy, and when you breach copyright and attempt to flaunt the law, you have to be prepared for the consequences. Being Spanish doesnt apparently, make you immune from prosecution.
my comments in yellow ...
I figured you guys were aiming at the Copyright angle.
Well, you may be wrong. In this case, how copyright would apply would be as a derivative work. That is; someone has done something based on the original work and changed it some how.
If it was to end up on a court, factors that would be considered would be how much of their own work Sky's team put into the project, what they did and why, along with how much money they intend to make and how much money Square Enix stand to lose.
In fact, Sky's Mod is probably copyright to him and his team as a work in its own right.
There is also a thing called "fair use" in the US. There have been a couple of interesting decisions relating specifically to computer games. Is a mod to make a game playable 'fair use'?
Breach of copyright is not the same thing as piracy in this case either.
It gets really complicated. Certainly not something you can simply say "breach of copyright" to and get a slam dunk win.
Not to mention the fact that copyright laws do vary from country to country.
Personally, I am disappointed this one didn't go to court. It would have been very interesting to see the result.
Edit:
the mod is an illegal product, using stolen IP in effect as they did not have permission of the IP's owners to make it. So yes, it is effectively theft.
I should add here that my understanding is that the Mod works with the original game. By itself - the Mod does nothing.
It is not a stand alone product making money of the IP claiming to be a product based on the IP in its own right.
Edit x 2 (my underlining)
Yes we live in an increasingly digitised world, but that just means that laws have had to be broadened to prevent such breaches of copyright, the fact that despite the 'modders' claims otherwise, they were prosecuted for breach of copyright etc. is a case in point.
In fact: it seems the blog posts were taken down voluntarily - based on threats by Square Enix. There was no prosecution.
So the legality is still undecided. Or do you have a link?
Actually this discussion of copyright violations is meaningless. A mod does not violate the copyright. Any legal eagle can tell you that.
What the mod does violate is the user agreement you sign when you play the game. Blizzard successfully took some modders to court because of violation of this and won. They did not sue for copyright reasons because they knew they had no case in that respect.
I really wish this guy had let Square Enix take him to court (although I understand why he didn't - lot of hassle)
EULAs are not universal law. In fact there are terms in many EULAs which are not even legal outside the USA. And I notice that some companies now have dual EULAs attached to their products - one for the US and one for the UK. I guess they figure that covers most of the market anyway?
But he may have breached copyright (he cannot claim 'fair use' for a translation) IF Square Enix can show that they had a continuing interest in the project and were going to release their own English translation version in the near future.
That's where the whole Mod release / E3 announcement timing gets interesting.
The original game was release Q4, 2011. So the fact that there was no western release for 2 + years is pretty critical to whether Sky and his team can claim no breach of copyright. Because, by releasing the mod, he has effectively undercut sales of any future (English) release.
Had he released the mod in Q1 of 2012 - he would have been in trouble. Square Enix could have said "we were planning a release" and it seems they had been working on it. Even the voice acting was done.
But 2 1/2 years later?
So then the issue becomes whether Sky and Square Enix discussed the possibility of an English release and what was said?
If Sky released the mod the day before E3 because he knew of a planned English release (and Square Enix can prove it!) - then he is in trouble.
However, if he didn't know, Square Enix could have trouble.
The fact that Square Enix made an announcement at E3 the day after could have been planned but could also be them trying to establish that they had a 'continuing interest' in the project.
Statements like this
I’d like to start this out by thanking everyone who let us know how badly you wanted this game to come to North America. Ever since the original PlayStation Portable release in Japan, you guys have never given up on it, raising your voices in an effort to see this title come to North America and Europe. Well, I’m here to tell you that it’s coming and it’s going to be in HD.
would suggest that they were interested... but if it went to court they could be required to prove it: showing 'recent 'work. That would be interesting.
I guess we won't know exactly since it will not be going to court.
But it will be interesting to see where "Stay tuned for more details in the future" goes?
If it turns into a "we have decided to discontinue the project at this time..." then Square Enix will be left looking dirty... that's if anyone besides Sky cares or even remembers by then. Gamers tend to have very short attention spans - maybe that's what Square Enix is working on?
When a publisher decides to withhold products that could easily be available just because they have the strength to manipulate consumers, it's natural for consumers to produce their own solutions.
Shame on SE for withholding the product this long, they could have easily ported it as a digital product functional on PS3, PSP, PS4, Vita and even 360 if they wanted to. Stating they plan to deliver 3 years after Japanese release, the day after the mod goes live is just a cheap excuse to justify their claim.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
So, I was pissed at the fact that they suckered me into $80 the first time and are basically screwing me over again. I then contact the Better Business Bureau who then proceed to contact Square Enix -- and all this time, I'm simply asking for the trial time I'm due, a mere 12 days of gametime. Still Square Enix refuses saying it's not their policy.
Funny thing about the BBB, they have no actual power. They keep things in a file, and contact the company in question, but ultimately, they cannot force a company to do anything. 99% of the time the things a company does to piss you off you agreed to in their Terms of Service, so pretty much no one can do anything. The best I can recommend is thoroughly read a Terms of Service before agreeing to it, especially if money is involved. Otherwise, you can find yourself holding the short end of a stick.
Yup, you are right. BBB was a waste of time. But I'm still shocked at SE's stubbornness in that instance. It's not like I was asking for the world, just 12 days of game time that I lost due to their error.
I'd wager that 9 out of 10 MMO companies would be like, "Yeah, we apologize! That technical issue was on our end, so our bad. Here is the gametime to make up for it."
Not SE though, they are like, "Oh we fudged up?! Oh, that sucks! Sorry about your bad luck."
Comments
True, but then people would either pirate the Japanese version of the game, or purchase it for a price lower than the English-translated version being released, thereby costing Square sales.
If the people who worked on the patch simply released it without being contacted by Square beforehand, then I might feel a bit more sympathy for them. However, they were told to stop before work was complete, refused to do so and arrogantly taunted Square ("We're in Spain you can't stop us, nyah nyah!"). IMO they got what they deserved. You don't thumb your nose at a madman holding a machine gun unless you've got some damn good body armor, and the rather silly belief that a multinational company for some reason can't act beyond the borders of its home nation doesn't count.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
But let's not forget that there were no signs whatsoever of SE publishing that game outside of Japan. It did not cost SE any sales as there were no sales outside of Japan to begin with. If anything, the possibility of an English patch simply raised more publicity and interest in FF Type-0 and likely why SE has finally decided to announce the game outside of Japan, albeit a day after the English patch was released.
It's the same thing with Phantasy Star Online 2 by SEGA which has yet to see the light in NA, but thanks to an English patch, NA players can play on the JP version and some players are even spending money on it (albeit after having to go through certain loops). Still, if a company shows no signs of releasing a game outside of Japan when the interest is clearly there, people will find a way around it. SE could've handled the situation with the modders much better.
Funny thing about the BBB, they have no actual power. They keep things in a file, and contact the company in question, but ultimately, they cannot force a company to do anything. 99% of the time the things a company does to piss you off you agreed to in their Terms of Service, so pretty much no one can do anything. The best I can recommend is thoroughly read a Terms of Service before agreeing to it, especially if money is involved. Otherwise, you can find yourself holding the short end of a stick.
My comments in Blue
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Piracy is piracy, and when you breach copyright and attempt to flaunt the law, you have to be prepared for the consequences. Being Spanish doesnt apparently, make you immune from prosecution.
my comments in yellow ...
Hi, resident pirate (political party) here. Although I disagree with Square-Enix objectively, there is something you guys are missing here. So I will clarify the one thing I think you are all missing here:
For the Japanese, this goes beyond simple copyright laws, in their culture, this is about honor. That is also why in the steam versions of many games, the graphics are barely improved, because they don't want to offend the original artist by replacing his art. We must respect cultural differences and trust that evolution will deal away with the weakest link.
The harder they work on preventing piracy, the harder it is to play the game, the more people will pirate. Hell "pirates" already finish half the Ubisoft games by the time the legit consumer can actually play the game duo to server downtimes...on single player games
In my culture this is not that big of a problem. So why should I adept and respect there culture instead of them mine?
translating a game isnt breaking the law downloading the a game for free is
I figured you guys were aiming at the Copyright angle.
Well, you may be wrong. In this case, how copyright would apply would be as a derivative work. That is; someone has done something based on the original work and changed it some how.
If it was to end up on a court, factors that would be considered would be how much of their own work Sky's team put into the project, what they did and why, along with how much money they intend to make and how much money Square Enix stand to lose.
In fact, Sky's Mod is probably copyright to him and his team as a work in its own right.
There is also a thing called "fair use" in the US. There have been a couple of interesting decisions relating specifically to computer games. Is a mod to make a game playable 'fair use'?
Breach of copyright is not the same thing as piracy in this case either.
It gets really complicated. Certainly not something you can simply say "breach of copyright" to and get a slam dunk win.
Not to mention the fact that copyright laws do vary from country to country.
Personally, I am disappointed this one didn't go to court. It would have been very interesting to see the result.
Edit:
the mod is an illegal product, using stolen IP in effect as they did not have permission of the IP's owners to make it. So yes, it is effectively theft.
I should add here that my understanding is that the Mod works with the original game. By itself - the Mod does nothing.
It is not a stand alone product making money of the IP claiming to be a product based on the IP in its own right.
Edit x 2 (my underlining)
Yes we live in an increasingly digitised world, but that just means that laws have had to be broadened to prevent such breaches of copyright, the fact that despite the 'modders' claims otherwise, they were prosecuted for breach of copyright etc. is a case in point.
In fact: it seems the blog posts were taken down voluntarily - based on threats by Square Enix. There was no prosecution.
So the legality is still undecided. Or do you have a link?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Actually this discussion of copyright violations is meaningless. A mod does not violate the copyright. Any legal eagle can tell you that.
What the mod does violate is the user agreement you sign when you play the game. Blizzard successfully took some modders to court because of violation of this and won. They did not sue for copyright reasons because they knew they had no case in that respect.
So much for all the highlighted nonsense.
Again - it depends.
I really wish this guy had let Square Enix take him to court (although I understand why he didn't - lot of hassle)
EULAs are not universal law. In fact there are terms in many EULAs which are not even legal outside the USA. And I notice that some companies now have dual EULAs attached to their products - one for the US and one for the UK. I guess they figure that covers most of the market anyway?
But he may have breached copyright (he cannot claim 'fair use' for a translation) IF Square Enix can show that they had a continuing interest in the project and were going to release their own English translation version in the near future.
That's where the whole Mod release / E3 announcement timing gets interesting.
The original game was release Q4, 2011. So the fact that there was no western release for 2 + years is pretty critical to whether Sky and his team can claim no breach of copyright. Because, by releasing the mod, he has effectively undercut sales of any future (English) release.
Had he released the mod in Q1 of 2012 - he would have been in trouble. Square Enix could have said "we were planning a release" and it seems they had been working on it. Even the voice acting was done.
But 2 1/2 years later?
So then the issue becomes whether Sky and Square Enix discussed the possibility of an English release and what was said?
If Sky released the mod the day before E3 because he knew of a planned English release (and Square Enix can prove it!) - then he is in trouble.
However, if he didn't know, Square Enix could have trouble.
The fact that Square Enix made an announcement at E3 the day after could have been planned but could also be them trying to establish that they had a 'continuing interest' in the project.
Statements like this
I’d like to start this out by thanking everyone who let us know how badly you wanted this game to come to North America. Ever since the original PlayStation Portable release in Japan, you guys have never given up on it, raising your voices in an effort to see this title come to North America and Europe. Well, I’m here to tell you that it’s coming and it’s going to be in HD.
Stay tuned for more details in the future
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/06/10/final-fantasy-type-0-hd-coming-to-ps4/
would suggest that they were interested... but if it went to court they could be required to prove it: showing 'recent 'work. That would be interesting.
I guess we won't know exactly since it will not be going to court.
But it will be interesting to see where "Stay tuned for more details in the future" goes?
If it turns into a "we have decided to discontinue the project at this time..." then Square Enix will be left looking dirty... that's if anyone besides Sky cares or even remembers by then. Gamers tend to have very short attention spans - maybe that's what Square Enix is working on?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Shame on SE for withholding the product this long, they could have easily ported it as a digital product functional on PS3, PSP, PS4, Vita and even 360 if they wanted to. Stating they plan to deliver 3 years after Japanese release, the day after the mod goes live is just a cheap excuse to justify their claim.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Yup, you are right. BBB was a waste of time. But I'm still shocked at SE's stubbornness in that instance. It's not like I was asking for the world, just 12 days of game time that I lost due to their error.
I'd wager that 9 out of 10 MMO companies would be like, "Yeah, we apologize! That technical issue was on our end, so our bad. Here is the gametime to make up for it."
Not SE though, they are like, "Oh we fudged up?! Oh, that sucks! Sorry about your bad luck."
BBB is pretty useless. I really wonder why people still approach them when they're no better than approaching the company's customer service.
I suppose one highlight about this is that the game finally gets some attention from SE (other than the sequels)
"Removes fan translation*
*Announces their translation*
*Is surprised when people call BS*
Oh Square Enix, just stick to Japan and your ecchi mobile game cash ins...