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Labor points system is stupid, patron or not
Why? Because it's there purely to limit your in game activities and encourage(or rather force?) you to use the cash shop for extra LP. Think about it, what does it actually take to gather or to craft anything in AA? A single click, that's it. You don't have to hone your gathering skill or crafting skill because it needs none, just a click. Her grandmother can do that, his cat can do that and I can even do that with my toe. Same with trade run. The most crucial point of a trade run is to safely bring the trade pack to the gold trader NPC, fighting off other players trying to rob it from you. Now that takes some PVP skill. But no, before even thinking about that you need 60 LP to craft a trade pack, another 60 for the NPC to accept it. That's a whooping 120 LP. What's the point? If you really want to prevent players to 1up the whole game then put in a stamina system where it takes stamina to do stuff. When you're out of stamina you can rest/eat/sleep to recover it. Sound a little archaic but I'd take that with a sub over the LP wholeheartedly.
Edit: bleh, let me summarize my points:
- For crafting and gathering: it's as brainless as it can get. click and done. You may have to check it occasionally to do extra click but that's it. It takes no skill/practice whatsoever, not even mini-games like FFXIV. If you really want to limit players from flooding the market with uber gears, make it hard/skillful to craft/gather. The higher grade the resource/product the harder to craft. Everybody can craft cheap stuff but only a very few dedicated crafters can make high end gear instead of a LP barrier for all.
- Same for trade run: what really matters is protecting your pack from other players, not clicking on the NPC to turn it in. If it has to take LP, then why not have players spend LP on transporting the pack? You can choose the longer but safer road. Less PVP involved but takes more LP then subsequently less profit(maybe?). Or you can do a guild run/paid run and make a beeline for the destination. Less LP spent and more profit.
- And finally patron with LP pot > patron - dont even mention F2P players here, 1k extra LP is not game breaking but it DOES make the difference. P2W or not, it's up to you to decide.
Comments
Pffft....
Stupid game...
Stupid.
Let's see, with the stamina you talk about and having to rest to regain it, well you also regain LP just resting or even doing others things.
Sounds like the same thing....maybe game isn't for you.
I like the LP system and look at it from the point of view that AA is trying to implement a sandbox game world and not just another gear factory. In order to achieve this, the game world is presented in as realistic fashion as is possible within the framework of a video game.
I don't know about you, but in a realistic setting there is definitely a limit to the amount of trees I could cut down in one day, or mineral nodes I could mine in one day, or treasure chests I coudl break open in one day....at some point I would be exhausted. So in that sense, the LP system does reflect a kind of stamina system and it does regen...kind of like you suggested.
I think the LP system adds a nice layer of micro management to the game.
The other way I look at it is the LP mechanic prevents people crafting 500000000 of something in one sitting and damaging the economy.
I am not sure how you conclude that you are FORCED to spend real money in the cash shop? You pay your sub and get a max quota of LP, this regens both in game and whilst you are offline which matches your ananlogy of going to bed somewhat?
The only way I can rationalise your view that you are FORCED to spend real money in the cash shop if if you are playing for free and expect the same amount of LP as a paying player. In that sense you might have to buy more LP with real money to keep up. But thats the way it SHOULD be if you are playing for free imo. Nothing wrong with that.
Well I agree with your point but the way LP's currently working is so forced to me. Back to my trade run example. Why does it takes nothing for me to kill the robbers but it takes LP for me to turn in the trade pack. Shouldn't fighting off other players cost the most LP?
And I really love to see your yellow part works. Too bad, out of LP? Cash shop with unlimited supply is waiting for you. It's practically only 1 step behind pay to win. Because with more LP you can do more trade runs, plant or gather(steal from other) more then craft more, bringing you closer to that 500000000 breaking point. If people can drop $150 for just an alpha access I doubt they hesitate to pay for extra LP.
Clearly you don't ACTUALLY read and explore the game, and prefer to jump to conclusions. So let me clue you in.
Patron status grants you max LP (5k) which I have yet to actually consume completely even whilst planting/gathering/building a house and a ship, along with some furniture. Also, you can in fact pay to rest at an inn at the capital to restore (last I checked) 25% of your LP. This is paid for with in-game currency and is available to all players once per day. Also, The cash shop LP potion has a twelve hour cooldown. So no, you cannot pour money into the game and stack LP. LP is meant only to deter people from doing NOTHING but gathering and crafting the entire time they're playing. In order to avoid ruining the market and stagnating the PvP content into a 3D farmville.
Please take the time to explore and research what you're talking about, or risk looking like a raging, impatient, and entitled child.
i think the labor point system is up for debat, talking about the amount labor points you get each tick, from the official forums..
the thing im kinda sad about in AA.. is the amount currently of labor points, both on korea and russia its very different..
Loot from questing needs to be opened with LP points
Wallets from drops needs to be opened with LP points.
I think they need adjust it
Well let me say this this game is defo no P2W, but the system is almost maxed about earning money from players..
I would simply rather see a sub based model P2P then these retarded systems..
Patron will costs around 15 dollar orso..
+
you can buy credits ingame on top of that..( no price info about credits)
Its pretty milking money is ask me
these systems wil defo lose them alot of players
I like the LP system in AA, we can discuss if limit is low or high or if the amount of regen is low or high but the basic idea of LP is correct imo.
When played i had to managed my LP and managed means i need other players wich makes the AH much more healthy and economy works. Everthing sells in AH thanks to LP system. For example:
- There is ppl that spend all LP in minning then sell ores in AH.
- There is ppl only craft and buy ore in AH.
- There is ppl only farming and then sell mats in AH
- There is ppl making trade packs and buy mats from AH, dont waste LP in farming.
- Etc, etc...
LP system doesnt only works for those who want to do everthing alone.
So many ppl allready mentioned, this is not a solo mmo, can be ofc but its not design that way.
Note: and my experience was with only with 5lp/5min on or off, seems here is 10 while on.
Well said. It's ridiculous how many people come here with the usual "LP is bad" complaint without playing 5 mins of the game.
Unlimited LP in the cash shop?
As I understand it, you can purchase a LP pot from the cash shop which has a 12 hour cooldown.
Not exactly the P2W unlimited LP you describe???
Anyone who buys the maximum amount of Labour Potions form the Cash Shop every day is a total moron.
It is FAR, FAR cheaper to just pay for Patron status on 2 or 3 accounts !
Currently, you can have a maximum of 4 characters per server. Each one can consume a Labour pot every 12 hours (this could be a bug and could be reduced to 1 potion per account per 12 hours). So 8K extra LP per day on that account, but at a current cost of SIXTEEN DOLLARS PER DAY !!!
So to force the 8K extra labour on that 1 account for 1 day costs as much as Patron status for a WHOLE MONTH !!?
Why would anyone do that for even 1 day when a Patron sub gets 43.2K LP per month (without even logging in) for just $15 ??
The Cash Shop Labour Potions are clearly intended as a way for players to get extra LP in "emergencies". If it was a blatant cash grab, why put a daily limit (max 2 per day) on the item ?
Nice post, very informative thanks
There is so much mis-information flying around about the game with people jumping on the indignation bandwagon it's nice to hear soem actual facts about how the system works.
The more facts I hear, the LP system becomes less and less of an issue.
Well said...
Scared of a little item decay?
#filthycasual
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
My other system...NOT USING A LABOR SYSTEM or GEAR DECAY!!
Not very tuff there was it?
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
And you missed the entire reason of the LP then.
How else do you think we can keep gears super RARE then? By incredible amounts of daily grinding? Without LP points, people will just grind 24/7 and you will have to make the grind extremely tedious to make gears super rare.
Or do you want each and every rare gears to be directly handed to you so that you can come here and complain later on that there is nothing to do in AA now.
Oh sorry, my bad for forgetting that 12 hours CD of the LP potion. But still, that's an instant extra 1k LP for you. You get around 2k if you stay online 8 hours per day as a patron and an AFK timer is coming soon. Non-patron? Dont even dream about it. You can say that you can save up LP by doing nothing but killing stuff. Seriously? So the barrier to the sandbox side of this game is nothing but an artifical monetized barrier. It's not like the crafting/gathering is skill-consuming or anything. It's all about a click away(with LP).
And of course I can't come up with any new, innovative ground breaking game design because I'm a consumer duh. It's the developer's job.
You're right, it's always easier to criticize and tear down than it is to think of "new, innovative ground breaking game designs" !
As for LP being an "artificial" barrier, all the rules in any MMO are "artificial barriers". They usually exist to regulate game play in a way that the game designer intended. It's not unusual for players to refer to the rules as "stupid" when they don't like the rules.
I think the labor point system is in place largely to stop bots farming 24/7 but they need to make major changes to the system as has been tested in the first two beta tests before it will work. Fortunately, from various things the Trion people have said, I believe that's likely to happen when they receive the next patch from XL Games.
However, for the time being, the reason you get two very different viewpoints on the labor point system in forum threads like this one is because it has very different effects on different play styles. Archeage is supposed to be a sandboxy game where people are free to choose their own path and yet for people who mainly want to quest and PvP, the labor points have hardly any adverse effect at all. On the other hand, for people like myself, who are not at all interested in questing or PvP and are only in the game for the farming/crafting/trading/fishing/gathering/mining etc. content, the game is just about unplayable in the beta, even as a patron.
I've been in the alpha stage since May and since we currently get Labor regen at double the rate beta players get, have only rarely run out of LP's, mostly when baitworm fishing. When I got started in CBT1, I found myself running out of LP's every day. and that's purely by gathering and processing the resources I needed to work towards a clipper and a couple of farms. I couldn't even have contemplated doing any other LP heavy activities such as crafting or fishing. Initially, I used my allocation of credits to buy extra LP pots in the cash shop but having done that three days running, I realised that would be unsustainable in the live game.
So, for CBT2 I bought a second founders pack and used the character on that account to do a lot of the resource processing such as making lumber, linen, iron ingots etc. I also left both PC's running Archeage 24/7 so I would get the higher regen rate for being online. In that test, I was able to manage without running out but when the game goes live I'm unlikely to be willing to pay out $30 per month in subs and leave two PC's running the game twenty four hours a day just to play the crafting and trading game I want to play.
I think there are certain to be major changes to the labor system before launch, so I'm not overly pessimistic at the moment but if there aren't, I may not be sticking around after my patron bonuses expire.
Not that i have a side in this, But i think thats the point being made, why have a system to maintain control just so people can pay to get trough it and break the rules? While other games do have a barrier they don't allow people to pay an bypass it. Espically if you got a sub in place, even WoW doesn't allow you gain more valor or honor point via the shop.
That IS just the point, the potions in the shop still regulate the gameplay, because their use is severely limited by a timer (2 per day). That "2 per day" limit was not arbitrary, it would be included in the economic design. If it was purely a cash-grabbing mechanic with no thought to the economic impact, why not simply allow people to buy 50, 100 or unlimited numbers per day ?
Anyone who wanted to "bypass the rules" could simply sub to multiple accounts, which is waaaay cheaper than abusing the cash shop potions, and effectively doubles your LP per day with just 2 accounts. If you're thinking about chugging Labour pots, rather buy multiple accounts.
But multiple accounts is something that can be done in any game, it's not unique to AA. In old SWG (back in 2004) you were limited to ONE character per server. I had 2 accounts, of course, just as I did in EVE-Online for 6 years...
There is a significant difference between mechanics and monetization. The issue people have isn't that the rules are a barrier to their gameplay, it's that cash is a barrier to their gameplay. You expressed this same concern when awaiting Wildstar, so I'm not getting your lack of understanding/empathy here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Artificial limits on activities in a supposed "sandbox". Ooookaayy. Doesn't sound like a very sandboxy thing at all to me.
I honestly don't think it's a blatant cash grab, it's just a good opportunity for one. Lots of Asian games have similar crap in them. It's some kind of weird counter to the fact that Asians like grind in their games I guess.
I've read the argument that LP keeps the gear "rare". If that was the case, why not just attach it to gear? Instead it's attached to the trade runs, the farming, the fishing...etc, etc. So that kind of sounds like a bullsh!t apologist rationalization to me.
I have also read the argument that if you pay a sub then you don't even notice it. Okay....So why have them in the game at all then? Seriously, if you can easily bypass the system with multiple paid accounts then it does no good to anyone anyway.
I was thinking about it last night and I honestly believe that a system like this brings NO positive benefits to a game at all. It just limits parts of the game for people for no reason other than. "We don't want you to be able to do what you want ALL day. " That would be crazy!
Just ask yourselves this. If LP were removed from the game. Would you actually say, "Man it was so much better when I had to wait and passivly generate LP to do the stuff I wanted to do." Probably not.
I don't get it.
If you are a subscriber you get a higher cap on LP, you get online regen, you get offline regen, you can spend some in game gold once a day to rest at a tavern and regen 25% of your LP in one go. If you subscribe then the LP factor becomes a non issue as has been illustrated in previous posts.
If you are playing the game as a F2P player then cash SHOULD be a barrier to your gameplay. Thats what F2P is....
You don't see the difference between my complaint regarding "usual Cash Shop monetization strategies" and the situation in AA ? Quite simply then, in AA my sub gets me what I want, whereas in most F2P games that is not the case. Hence no complaints about AA in that regard.
I take issue with the fact that many people are accusing the game design of being purely a money-grab. They refuse to acknowledge that it could be strongly motivated by the need to curb goldsellers, which would be rampant in AA if the F2P accounts had free access to everything. These curbs are only effective if backed by a dedicated publisher who monitors and polices game activity, which does not appear to be the case in Russia (?).
The most common complaint hinges on the fact that players can't do stuff "fast enough". They are frustrated and angry because they can't powerlevel their crafting professions to 70K in the first week after launch. That is the "modern way" in the west, and any game that dares to run against that expectation is immediately labeled as a "monumental asian grinder"...