I was hoping for EQ3 which would be a rollback of EQ2 to EQ1 but with new content and graphics.
I'll play EQNext but I wish they would've called it something else besides Everquest. Maybe a name like eQuest. That way they could develop a real EQ in the future. Now they've taken the franchise in a completely different direction. The only thing in common being a bit of the EQ lore.
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
JAMMORPG
(Just Another MMORPG)
Out of curiousity, what would make it appeal to "your demographic".
Because from what I see, it's certainly offering a lot more features and changes to conventions than nearly every other AAA MMORPG that's come out in the past decade.
Fully destructible world, Horizontal progression, and the emergent AI system are 3 major things that haven't been done before in a AAA MMORPG. So it can't be "just another MMORPG", but it certainly could be appealing to a "different demographic" in some way.
So what would you change about EQN if you could wave your wand? I'm curious.
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
JAMMORPG
(Just Another MMORPG)
We are at a point where all game are just another one. Way too many for one to be THE ONE. WoW isn't likely to ever happen again. They did clearly state that those who prefer EQ/EQ2 type games will still have them for years to come. As those games aren't played by the majority of the millions upon millions of gamers out there, shouldn't be too surprising that EQN is looking to expand to different players. Luckily for some of us, we can enjoy EQ along with what EQN is showing. I would hate if I limited myself otherwise.
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
JAMMORPG
(Just Another MMORPG)
Out of curiousity, what would make it appeal to "your demographic".
Because from what I see, it's certainly offering a lot more features and changes to conventions than nearly every other AAA MMORPG that's come out in the past decade.
Fully destructible world, Horizontal progression, and the emergent AI system are 3 major things that haven't been done before in a AAA MMORPG. So it can't be "just another MMORPG", but it certainly could be appealing to a "different demographic" in some way.
So what would you change about EQN if you could wave your wand? I'm curious.
I think when people say "demographic" they mean themselves personally like they are important snowflakes that companies have to bow to. SOE Dev "Oh no, Johnny Gamer doesn't like this, quick, lets change it everyone."
Or people still think the small number of folks from early EQ days are still the majority and totally missed the millions of players and games that have come since then that are nothing like older games or the players that enjoyed them.
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
JAMMORPG
(Just Another MMORPG)
Out of curiousity, what would make it appeal to "your demographic".
Because from what I see, it's certainly offering a lot more features and changes to conventions than nearly every other AAA MMORPG that's come out in the past decade.
Fully destructible world, Horizontal progression, and the emergent AI system are 3 major things that haven't been done before in a AAA MMORPG. So it can't be "just another MMORPG", but it certainly could be appealing to a "different demographic" in some way.
So what would you change about EQN if you could wave your wand? I'm curious.
Who cares what I want? This isn't about me, (Except that you are trying to make it so) This is about SOE making some watered down diluted game that is supposed to appeal to everybody and probably won't.
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
JAMMORPG
(Just Another MMORPG)
Out of curiousity, what would make it appeal to "your demographic".
Because from what I see, it's certainly offering a lot more features and changes to conventions than nearly every other AAA MMORPG that's come out in the past decade.
Fully destructible world, Horizontal progression, and the emergent AI system are 3 major things that haven't been done before in a AAA MMORPG. So it can't be "just another MMORPG", but it certainly could be appealing to a "different demographic" in some way.
So what would you change about EQN if you could wave your wand? I'm curious.
Who cares what I want? This isn't about me, (Except that you are trying to make it so) This is about SOE making some watered down diluted game that is supposed to appeal to everybody and probably won't.
I was simply curious because EQN doesn't seem at all "diluted". There's a ton of innovation going on that will add a lot of depth that a lot of MMORPGs lack, and their class/combat system looks like it's targeting hardcore RPG players by giving them endless amounts of swappable classes, skills, passives and gear combinations. Hell they're even giving RPers a lot of love with the SOEmote, facial animations and emote system.
I'm not sure what gives you the impression that the game is "diluted". It seems far more feature rich than anything else on the market / coming out. Could you point me in the direction of a non-diluted game please? I'd be very interested in playing something that offers anywhere near the amount of innovation and customization that EQN is offering.
As far as im concerned,the only Everquest worth a damn was the first.
The 2nd is terrible and Next looks terrible.
So Im not even sure I would want 'Everquest 3" instead.
Ditto.. I was hoping for a modern updated EQ1 with better technology.. I see very little resemblance between EQ1 and EQNext other then just hand written lore.. Can I kite? Can I levitate? Can I charm mobs? Can I use illusions? Can I self/group port? Can I stealth and steal money from the UI? Can I invis or see invis? This list could go on and on, but you get the idea..
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
JAMMORPG
(Just Another MMORPG)
Out of curiousity, what would make it appeal to "your demographic".
Because from what I see, it's certainly offering a lot more features and changes to conventions than nearly every other AAA MMORPG that's come out in the past decade.
Fully destructible world, Horizontal progression, and the emergent AI system are 3 major things that haven't been done before in a AAA MMORPG. So it can't be "just another MMORPG", but it certainly could be appealing to a "different demographic" in some way.
So what would you change about EQN if you could wave your wand? I'm curious.
Who cares what I want? This isn't about me, (Except that you are trying to make it so) This is about SOE making some watered down diluted game that is supposed to appeal to everybody and probably won't.
I was simply curious because EQN doesn't seem at all "diluted". There's a ton of innovation going on that will add a lot of depth that a lot of MMORPGs lack, and their class/combat system looks like it's targeting hardcore RPG players by giving them endless amounts of swappable classes, skills, passives and gear combinations. Hell they're even giving RPers a lot of love with the SOEmote, facial animations and emote system.
I'm not sure what gives you the impression that the game is "diluted". It seems far more feature rich than anything else on the market / coming out. Could you point me in the direction of a non-diluted game please? I'd be very interested in playing something that offers anywhere near the amount of innovation and customization that EQN is offering.
The "diluted" reference comes from the exact list of features you are waiting in earnest for. We just have very different levels of faith in SOE's ability to deliver. I think it's far too ambitious. I still remember the "Manifesto" and all the promises made there. Sure the features were technically present, but the game simply failed to deliver on the experience promised. And ANET is still a far more reputable studio than SOE (IMO). SOE simply has a bad track record. I think Smed is so far out of touch with his players that he needs to go find a whole new demographic to sucker in. I mean look at his comment about H1Z1 being a home for SWG vets. He based this around crafting alone without considering that for SWG vets who were into the crafting of the game, there was an entire meta surrounding crafting and economy.
Now he's saying he wants to deliver a new EQ experience with a list of promises and nothing developed outside of Landmark. While it's better than nothing, you still have no idea how it will all pull together in the end.
If there is one thing I am 100% certain of, it would be this:
If it were possible to collect, catalog, tag and qualify your current "image" or set of expectations you have about what EQN will be, we could take that list and compare it to EQN 90 days post launch, and I'd say that less than 10% of what you think this game is going to be, will actually be there, in the state you currently believe it will be.
And yes, this is ALL subjective on my part. It's my "dartboard" prediction based on what i have seen of this company and what I have seen in the past from both SOE and other studios. I also predict that a lot of people will drop off the bandwagon as time and development marches on and the game starts looking less and less like what many thought it would. I'm sure it will also pick up others as well, that's to be expected too. But as for me, I'm a skeptic but I will wait and see. If I turn out to be wrong, I'll be happy to come back and admit it. I was wrong about a lot of thing about other games that I've admitted to in the past.
P.S.
On the other side of this, I do have something good to say about it. At least those expectations will be able to constantly be re adjusted so they are in line with the reality of the game's progress, since the game will be developed openly.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 Did you really think a company that puts out a zombie mmorpg would do anything unique?
In all fairness, define "unique". Don't we label everything as a WoW clone now? We don't really give cred to any game for its originality anyway, so what's the motivation? Those that do try to be innovative, people simply bitch and whine about.
Talking about Zombie MMOs, I really couldn't name you on off the top of my head, sorry. DayZ? Not released. Everything else is kinda...... not MMORPG is it? Or not worth even playing? Granted the whole Zombie love affair will probably run its course before any of these games actually reach the market, but it's not really like we're flooded with Zombie MMOs (though we've seen our fair share in games in general).
Didn't EQ2 come out almost 3 weeks prior to WoW. So technically everything is a EQ2 Clone.
As far as im concerned,the only Everquest worth a damn was the first.
The 2nd is terrible and Next looks terrible.
So Im not even sure I would want 'Everquest 3" instead.
Ditto.. I was hoping for a modern updated EQ1 with better technology.. I see very little resemblance between EQ1 and EQNext other then just hand written lore.. Can I kite? Can I levitate? Can I charm mobs? Can I use illusions? Can I self/group port? Can I stealth and steal money from the UI? Can I invis or see invis? This list could go on and on, but you get the idea..
I agree. Going through each week with the round table polls was quite a turn off.
I remember when EQ1 was still great rumors of EQN.
But don't worry they will not let you dual wield an ak47.
You do not understand...they want EQ1 with new graphics, updated combat, better engine, modern style economy, and all the good stuff (to them) from modern games...you know just EQ1 not a totally new game.
Originally posted by Horusra You do not understand...they want EQ1 with new graphics, updated combat, better engine, modern style economy, and all the good stuff (to them) from modern games...you know just EQ1 not a totally new game.
Well, if someone were able to capture the heart and soul of Vanilla and TBC WoW, I'd play that. I didn't play EQ1, I tried EQ2, but wasn't really impressed and went back to WoW at the time. However, I imagine, if you add EQ1 to that list, I'm sure I'd enjoy that one as well.
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
JAMMORPG
(Just Another MMORPG)
Out of curiousity, what would make it appeal to "your demographic".
Because from what I see, it's certainly offering a lot more features and changes to conventions than nearly every other AAA MMORPG that's come out in the past decade.
Fully destructible world, Horizontal progression, and the emergent AI system are 3 major things that haven't been done before in a AAA MMORPG. So it can't be "just another MMORPG", but it certainly could be appealing to a "different demographic" in some way.
So what would you change about EQN if you could wave your wand? I'm curious.
Who cares what I want? This isn't about me, (Except that you are trying to make it so) This is about SOE making some watered down diluted game that is supposed to appeal to everybody and probably won't.
Agree. All we seem to be seeing is one sell out after another trying to find the holy grail. This all started with the SWG CU/NGE era and most recently, SWTOR. They spend so much time with trying to be all things to all people, that they miss the passion of the game. It's all about the $$$, hence all the cash shops popping up like heroin dealers. lol
We've lost the depth, the immersion, the risk and the reward. But we have music!
I mean honestly. SWG, VG, EQ, EQ2 were/are great games. Why not make an EQ 3? Stylized graphics for longevity? What does that even mean? Destructible world? Emergent AI? Great? No depth. Not great.
I'm not saying I won't play EQN. I'm just saying I'll probably be done in short time. So expect tons and tons of cash shop items to keep you in game. That's right, soon you'll be able to buy dyes, clothes, boxes, ore, plants, tools, etc... Oh wait; you already can (in Landmark). And the game is still in beta.
First I'll say, I don't know much about this MMO. But the little I do, I don't like it at all. I may be slightly off track on my negatives listed below. But everything about this game turns me off.
- Fully destructible world, I know players are screaming for a change, but this isn't it !
- F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap.
- Few abilities on your bar ?.....I hate this in the more recent mmo's.....Maybe it's just me, but I like versatility in both talent builds and like to choose and be in control of how I play......I like having something to look forward to, More abilities, not just some minor enhancements.
- What's so bad about class roles ? It works and it will always work, it has nothing to do with old style.
- The marketing. Now I know developers like to give long notice about there product. But I don't think SOE even knows much about what they will eventually give us.
I would like to see a real remake of EQ2. Open world and non instanced, Very cool abilities, something never thought of yet. Vanguard had done this, they were innovative, it's just that it ran like dog poo !.....When I first found out about EQ Next, I figured great !....Until I started reading about it.
No offense, but it sounds like you just don't want change. It's fine to enjoy how things used to be, but do you know what happens to companies who don't change? They die.
- I see similar complaints about most IPs on these forums, tbh. And it always seems to come down to the same thing. People wanting reskins of their old favorites. However, it rarely stops there. They want 'new', but they can never describe exactly what that is. They basically want something exactly like game 'X', but not at the same time. So I ask you.
What from the previous EQ game(s) do you want? Do you want it identical to EQ1? If they did that, and barely any people played the game, would you honestly still play it? What's stopping you from enjoying EQ1 / 2 now? Etc. It seems that every new game announced people get ecstatic for, and the second any sort of actual info gets released they immediately do a 180 and label it 'crap'. I just have to wonder how many people here actually think about what their expectations are, and whether or not they are grounded in reality. But, i digress; to answer your bullet points:
1) Fully destructible worlds (and fully constructible ones) are a feature a lot of people have been asking for, for years. Everyone keeps asking for the ability to influence & change the world, and make 'meaningful' change. Destructible environments are part of that equation. You say this isn't the right type of change. Fine, then what is? Games don't get made on negatives. You need to actually have something concrete to build off of.
2) F2P. This is not an SoE invention. Demonize the company all you want, but be real here. F2P has been a recent trend that nearly every company has been getting onboard with. Why? Because it actually has proven to be more profitable than subscription based games. The few sub games that compete in terms of revenue are outliers when you look at them compared to everything else. Like it or not, F2P will be here for a while. Gamers got tired of paying monthly fees for practically no reason. They were justified in the past, by frequent game updates & content. However, when is the last time a sub game has actually delivered on that promise? They almost always provide infrequent (if any) content updates for the sub, and instead just keep charging you even more fees per expansion. I hate bad F2P models as much as the next guy, but bad subscriptions aren't any better.
3) Few abilities. I won't go into too much depth on this, but I'll just say (for the Nth time) that the amount of abilities on your skill bar has nothing to do with versatility, or how you play a character. Having 18 versions of fireball doesn't make a class more versatile. It makes it more redundant. Guild Wars is a perfect example of this. The first game had only 8 skills you could use, and yet it had way more versatility with builds than GW2 does. Even though GW2 gives you at least twice as many skills (sometimes more, depending on class). There are also numerous other games that can serve as examples of how untrue this idea actually is. If you prefer more skills on your skillbar, that's fine. But it doesn't make the combat any better, it's just what you are used to.
4) Class roles. They work because they simplify combat to the lowest common denominator. It's safe, but that doesn't mean it's the only way to design combat. It's comfortable, it's easy to understand, and that's why people like it. I get it. However, it isn't without it's own problems. For starters, certain classes (and I'm talking about the trinity here), are always underplayed in every game that has them. To this day, healers & tanks are always significantly more difficult to find than dps. The latest examples of this being Wildstar, ESO, and FFXIV. Each very different games, all have the same problem, and none of them are that old (which illustrates that not only is it a problem, but it's a problem that happens exponentially more frequently each year). And no one likes to wait around for hours trying to find a healer or a tank. It just isn't fun.
5) The marketing. This is a colossal 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' type of situation. And it makes me /facepalm to no end. I'm still on the fence about this game, but I know enough about it to realize that SOE has been trying (since the beginning) to involve players in the development of this game. Surprise, that means they don't know 100% what the game will end up as, because they are evolving it with the feedback they keep getting. That's how development works. If you think that any MMO ends up with a finished product that is identical to the original plan, well then you've never worked on a video game before. It never works out that way. This is yet another situation in which people have been asking for devs to listen to them, they do it, and then get criticized for it.
I think I've typed enough, but I'll end with this. No game is going to please you if you are constantly trying to compare it to something else entirely. There's a long list of great games that will never get a new paint job or graphics update. That's how the world works. If we kept going back and remaking outdated things we used to like, we'd never have time to try new things. So why not try and step out of your comfort zone, and try something new? Even if it's not EQN, look forward, not back. Play games to have fun, not to relive experiences you had 10-20 years ago.
Originally posted by Horusra You do not understand...they want EQ1 with new graphics, updated combat, better engine, modern style economy, and all the good stuff (to them) from modern games...you know just EQ1 not a totally new game.
Well, if someone were able to capture the heart and soul of Vanilla and TBC WoW, I'd play that. I didn't play EQ1, I tried EQ2, but wasn't really impressed and went back to WoW at the time. However, I imagine, if you add EQ1 to that list, I'm sure I'd enjoy that one as well.
The thing that most people don't seem to understand, is when you update a game like that, it effectively becomes a new game.
Think about it, if you have everything the same, but change / update all the artwork, what happens? You get some people who love the new look, and others that hate it. And thus some people won't play the game, because it's not true to how they remember the older graphics)
If you're also updating the combat, then it's not going to play the same way as the older game. And thus, some people won't play it, because it's not true to how they remembered the old combat.
If you're also updating the engine, then some features may carry over, but others may not. Which means you will have to change certain aspects of the game to fit the new engine. And thus, some people won't play the game, because it's not true to how they remember the original.
If you're also changing the economy, then the market doesn't function the same way that it used to. And thus some people won't play the game, because it's not true to the original.
And when you add it all up, you get a whole lot of somebodies not playing your game, for various reasons. And that's a huge deterrent for most studios trying to stay in business.
Now I know Horusra's post was made in sarcasm, but there's a lot of people (including the OP) who are asking for exactly that. And they don't seem to realize how absurd a request that actually is. Many of these games are still around. There's numerous private servers running WoW-Vanilla. And yet people don't play them. They just expect each new game to copy them. Except do a better job. But not too different a job, because it has to be the same. Oh hell, these stupid developers never know what they're doing, do they...
Originally posted by delete5230- F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap.
As soon as I got to this line I stopped caring, you're furthering the stereotype of F2P all because the western gaming world hasn't done it correct, fair, and just plain right yet.
Originally posted by Horusra You do not understand...they want EQ1 with new graphics, updated combat, better engine, modern style economy, and all the good stuff (to them) from modern games...you know just EQ1 not a totally new game.
Well, if someone were able to capture the heart and soul of Vanilla and TBC WoW, I'd play that. I didn't play EQ1, I tried EQ2, but wasn't really impressed and went back to WoW at the time. However, I imagine, if you add EQ1 to that list, I'm sure I'd enjoy that one as well.
The thing that most people don't seem to understand, is when you update a game like that, it effectively becomes a new game.
Think about it, if you have everything the same, but change / update all the artwork, what happens? You get some people who love the new look, and others that hate it. And thus some people won't play the game, because it's not true to how they remember the older graphics)
If you're also updating the combat, then it's not going to play the same way as the older game. And thus, some people won't play it, because it's not true to how they remembered the old combat.
If you're also updating the engine, then some features may carry over, but others may not. Which means you will have to change certain aspects of the game to fit the new engine. And thus, some people won't play the game, because it's not true to how they remember the original.
If you're also changing the economy, then the market doesn't function the same way that it used to. And thus some people won't play the game, because it's not true to the original.
And when you add it all up, you get a whole lot of somebodies not playing your game, for various reasons. And that's a huge deterrent for most studios trying to stay in business.
Now I know Horusra's post was made in sarcasm, but there's a lot of people (including the OP) who are asking for exactly that. And they don't seem to realize how absurd a request that actually is. Many of these games are still around. There's numerous private servers running WoW-Vanilla. And yet people don't play them. They just expect each new game to copy them. Except do a better job. But not too different a job, because it has to be the same. Oh hell, these stupid developers never know what they're doing, do they...
Exactly this. There are mountains of empty EQ and WoW private servers that emulate that day 1 feel everyone fantasizes about with their rose-tinted glasses on. No one wants that crap.
The "diluted" reference comes from the exact list of features you are waiting in earnest for. We just have very different levels of faith in SOE's ability to deliver. I think it's far too ambitious. I still remember the "Manifesto" and all the promises made there. Sure the features were technically present, but the game simply failed to deliver on the experience promised.
What a crock of shit. Yes it's ambitious, but they've done nothing so far to suggest that it isn't going to make it into the game. They haven't come out on stage and said "Well gee that emergent AI thing didn't pan out like we wanted so we had to cut that". Everything so far is either already visible within landmark (fully destructible world) or a concept that they are still reporting that's going to make it into the game (horizontal progression, multi classing, etc).
And ANET is still a far more reputable studio than SOE (IMO). SOE simply has a bad track record. I think Smed is so far out of touch with his players that he needs to go find a whole new demographic to sucker in. I mean look at his comment about H1Z1 being a home for SWG vets. He based this around crafting alone without considering that for SWG vets who were into the crafting of the game, there was an entire meta surrounding crafting and economy.
Another crock of shit. ANET is just-as reputable as SOE is by any objective standard. SWG players are people who love sandboxes, with rich crafting systems and fun-to-explore open worlds. As a SWG fan myself I can totally see the appeal of H1Z1, so he was right on the money.
Now he's saying he wants to deliver a new EQ experience with a list of promises and nothing developed outside of Landmark. While it's better than nothing, you still have no idea how it will all pull together in the end.
I have a pretty good idea actually.
If there is one thing I am 100% certain of, it would be this:
If it were possible to collect, catalog, tag and qualify your current "image" or set of expectations you have about what EQN will be, we could take that list and compare it to EQN 90 days post launch, and I'd say that less than 10% of what you think this game is going to be, will actually be there, in the state you currently believe it will be.
I think that depends on how wild your imagination is, which would be a personal problem, not something on them.
-I have no doubt at this point that EQN will have a fully destructible world.
- It will have proceedurly generated dungeons and caverns under the world that shift and change.
-It will have a horizontal progression based system that encourages free roaming and adventure while not creating arbitrary community barriers.
-There will be "rallying calls" which will end in changing the world based on our success or failure.
-Players will be able to use a webcam and sync our face to our character's face using SOEmote.
-Heroic movement skills and items will make traveling more active than most/all other MMORPGs.
-The combat will be action based combat.
-Players will have the ability to switch between classes and customize their builds through a rich horizontal based gear system and the multi-class system.
-It will have a crafting system
-Grouping will be a part of the game that is payed attention to and CC is coming back in a major way.
If I like the game, or not, is completely up in the air at this point. They will probably deliver on all these features, and the game may or not hold onto me. However, a "snap shot" of what they've promised with what I think the game will be is probably close to 100% accurate because I don't build it up in my head to be more than what they're saying and what they're showing so far.
The "diluted" reference comes from the exact list of features you are waiting in earnest for. We just have very different levels of faith in SOE's ability to deliver. I think it's far too ambitious. I still remember the "Manifesto" and all the promises made there. Sure the features were technically present, but the game simply failed to deliver on the experience promised.
What a crock of shit. Yes it's ambitious, but they've done nothing so far to suggest that it isn't going to make it into the game. They haven't come out on stage and said "Well gee that emergent AI thing didn't pan out like we wanted so we had to cut that". Everything so far is either already visible within landmark (fully destructible world) or a concept that they are still reporting that's going to make it into the game (horizontal progression, multi classing, etc).
And ANET is still a far more reputable studio than SOE (IMO). SOE simply has a bad track record. I think Smed is so far out of touch with his players that he needs to go find a whole new demographic to sucker in. I mean look at his comment about H1Z1 being a home for SWG vets. He based this around crafting alone without considering that for SWG vets who were into the crafting of the game, there was an entire meta surrounding crafting and economy.
Another crock of shit. ANET is just-as reputable as SOE is by any objective standard. SWG players are people who love sandboxes, with rich crafting systems and fun-to-explore open worlds. As a SWG fan myself I can totally see the appeal of H1Z1, so he was right on the money.
Now he's saying he wants to deliver a new EQ experience with a list of promises and nothing developed outside of Landmark. While it's better than nothing, you still have no idea how it will all pull together in the end.
I have a pretty good idea actually.
If there is one thing I am 100% certain of, it would be this:
If it were possible to collect, catalog, tag and qualify your current "image" or set of expectations you have about what EQN will be, we could take that list and compare it to EQN 90 days post launch, and I'd say that less than 10% of what you think this game is going to be, will actually be there, in the state you currently believe it will be.
I think that depends on how wild your imagination is, which would be a personal problem, not something on them.
-I have no doubt at this point that EQN will have a fully destructible world.
- It will have proceedurly generated dungeons and caverns under the world that shift and change.
-It will have a horizontal progression based system that encourages free roaming and adventure while not creating arbitrary community barriers.
-There will be "rallying calls" which will end in changing the world based on our success or failure.
-Players will be able to use a webcam and sync our face to our character's face using SOEmote.
-Heroic movement skills and items will make traveling more active than most/all other MMORPGs.
-The combat will be action based combat.
-Players will have the ability to switch between classes and customize their builds through a rich horizontal based gear system and the multi-class system.
-It will have a crafting system
-Grouping will be a part of the game that is payed attention to and CC is coming back in a major way.
If I like the game, or not, is completely up in the air at this point. They will probably deliver on all these features, and the game may or not hold onto me. However, a "snap shot" of what they've promised with what I think the game will be is probably close to 100% accurate because I don't build it up in my head to be more than what they're saying and what they're showing so far.
And yes, this is ALL subjective on my part.
Ya that part was pretty clear.
First of all, you are missing what I am saying. I am not claiming that Emergent AI won't be in the game, I'm not saying that the world won't be fully destructable. What I am saying is that these systems will never live up to the level of expectation you have created around them. And quite frankly, I would be very surprised if in the end, it's more gimmick then anything else. All these new mechanics will bring new and unforseen issues that no one can anticipate diminishing the added value of these new systems. Happened in GW2. You don't think it won't happen in EQN?
As for point 2? Again, you missed what I said. I never said ANET wasn't as reputable as SOE. Since SOE isn't reputable at all.
Again, I am not questioning that all the features will be in EQN. What I doubt is their effect, I seriously doubt they will create a better overall MMO experience than anything else out there.
So While you wait for the holy grail of gaming, I am yawning thinking
First of all, you are missing what I am saying. I am not claiming that Emergent AI won't be in the game, I'm not saying that the world won't be fully destructable. What I am saying is that these systems will never live up to the level of expectation you have created around them. And quite frankly, I would be very surprised if in the end, it's more gimmick then anything else. All these new mechanics will bring new and unforseen issues that no one can anticipate diminishing the added value of these new systems. Happened in GW2. You don't think it won't happen in EQN?
As for point 2? Again, you missed what I said. I never said ANET wasn't as reputable as SOE. Since SOE isn't reputable at all.
Again, I am not questioning that all the features will be in EQN. What I doubt is their effect, I seriously doubt they will create a better overall MMO experience than anything else out there.
So While you wait for the holy grail of gaming, I am yawning thinking
EQ?...........NEXT!
No I get what you're saying. I'm simply stating that it's subjective based on your wild imagination. GW2 delivered on everything it said it would. The fact that you liked it or not doesn't mean anything in the context of this conversation. They didn't say something was going to be in the game and then didn't deliver at least what they said it would.
SOE can absolute "live up to my expectations" because I'm not building it up in my head to be more than what they say it will be. So in the end, it will probably be about 95% - 110% of what I expected, based on what they said and what they've shown.
I also have no doubt that there are people like you out there who are never happy with anything. You hear of a concept, you extrapolate on it until, in your mind, it's this insanely wonderful and impossible feature, and then cry foul when they don't live up to your self-made hype and expectations that were already far beyond what they promised.
I get that. Some people are negative Nancy's who can't appreciate anything. You're welcome to that mind set and opinion.
But don't pretend like they're not going to deliver on what they've stated.
Comments
I was hoping for EQ3 which would be a rollback of EQ2 to EQ1 but with new content and graphics.
I'll play EQNext but I wish they would've called it something else besides Everquest. Maybe a name like eQuest. That way they could develop a real EQ in the future. Now they've taken the franchise in a completely different direction. The only thing in common being a bit of the EQ lore.
EQ3 is pretty much never going to happen now.
http://gnomophobia.com
It's clear SOE want's to try to appeal to an entirely new demographic and forget about their current MMO player base. I just don't see this ending any differently than everything else to come along in recent years.
JAMMORPG
(Just Another MMORPG)
Out of curiousity, what would make it appeal to "your demographic".
Because from what I see, it's certainly offering a lot more features and changes to conventions than nearly every other AAA MMORPG that's come out in the past decade.
Fully destructible world, Horizontal progression, and the emergent AI system are 3 major things that haven't been done before in a AAA MMORPG. So it can't be "just another MMORPG", but it certainly could be appealing to a "different demographic" in some way.
So what would you change about EQN if you could wave your wand? I'm curious.
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We are at a point where all game are just another one. Way too many for one to be THE ONE. WoW isn't likely to ever happen again. They did clearly state that those who prefer EQ/EQ2 type games will still have them for years to come. As those games aren't played by the majority of the millions upon millions of gamers out there, shouldn't be too surprising that EQN is looking to expand to different players. Luckily for some of us, we can enjoy EQ along with what EQN is showing. I would hate if I limited myself otherwise.
I think when people say "demographic" they mean themselves personally like they are important snowflakes that companies have to bow to. SOE Dev "Oh no, Johnny Gamer doesn't like this, quick, lets change it everyone."
Or people still think the small number of folks from early EQ days are still the majority and totally missed the millions of players and games that have come since then that are nothing like older games or the players that enjoyed them.
Who cares what I want? This isn't about me, (Except that you are trying to make it so) This is about SOE making some watered down diluted game that is supposed to appeal to everybody and probably won't.
I was simply curious because EQN doesn't seem at all "diluted". There's a ton of innovation going on that will add a lot of depth that a lot of MMORPGs lack, and their class/combat system looks like it's targeting hardcore RPG players by giving them endless amounts of swappable classes, skills, passives and gear combinations. Hell they're even giving RPers a lot of love with the SOEmote, facial animations and emote system.
I'm not sure what gives you the impression that the game is "diluted". It seems far more feature rich than anything else on the market / coming out. Could you point me in the direction of a non-diluted game please? I'd be very interested in playing something that offers anywhere near the amount of innovation and customization that EQN is offering.
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As far as im concerned,the only Everquest worth a damn was the first.
The 2nd is terrible and Next looks terrible.
So Im not even sure I would want 'Everquest 3" instead.
Ditto.. I was hoping for a modern updated EQ1 with better technology.. I see very little resemblance between EQ1 and EQNext other then just hand written lore.. Can I kite? Can I levitate? Can I charm mobs? Can I use illusions? Can I self/group port? Can I stealth and steal money from the UI? Can I invis or see invis? This list could go on and on, but you get the idea..
The "diluted" reference comes from the exact list of features you are waiting in earnest for. We just have very different levels of faith in SOE's ability to deliver. I think it's far too ambitious. I still remember the "Manifesto" and all the promises made there. Sure the features were technically present, but the game simply failed to deliver on the experience promised. And ANET is still a far more reputable studio than SOE (IMO). SOE simply has a bad track record. I think Smed is so far out of touch with his players that he needs to go find a whole new demographic to sucker in. I mean look at his comment about H1Z1 being a home for SWG vets. He based this around crafting alone without considering that for SWG vets who were into the crafting of the game, there was an entire meta surrounding crafting and economy.
Now he's saying he wants to deliver a new EQ experience with a list of promises and nothing developed outside of Landmark. While it's better than nothing, you still have no idea how it will all pull together in the end.
If there is one thing I am 100% certain of, it would be this:
If it were possible to collect, catalog, tag and qualify your current "image" or set of expectations you have about what EQN will be, we could take that list and compare it to EQN 90 days post launch, and I'd say that less than 10% of what you think this game is going to be, will actually be there, in the state you currently believe it will be.
And yes, this is ALL subjective on my part. It's my "dartboard" prediction based on what i have seen of this company and what I have seen in the past from both SOE and other studios. I also predict that a lot of people will drop off the bandwagon as time and development marches on and the game starts looking less and less like what many thought it would. I'm sure it will also pick up others as well, that's to be expected too. But as for me, I'm a skeptic but I will wait and see. If I turn out to be wrong, I'll be happy to come back and admit it. I was wrong about a lot of thing about other games that I've admitted to in the past.
P.S.
On the other side of this, I do have something good to say about it. At least those expectations will be able to constantly be re adjusted so they are in line with the reality of the game's progress, since the game will be developed openly.
Didn't EQ2 come out almost 3 weeks prior to WoW. So technically everything is a EQ2 Clone.
I agree. Going through each week with the round table polls was quite a turn off.
I remember when EQ1 was still great rumors of EQN.
But don't worry they will not let you dual wield an ak47.
SoE had to be drastic or the EQ franchise would be dead in a few short years.
Well, if someone were able to capture the heart and soul of Vanilla and TBC WoW, I'd play that. I didn't play EQ1, I tried EQ2, but wasn't really impressed and went back to WoW at the time. However, I imagine, if you add EQ1 to that list, I'm sure I'd enjoy that one as well.
Agree. All we seem to be seeing is one sell out after another trying to find the holy grail. This all started with the SWG CU/NGE era and most recently, SWTOR. They spend so much time with trying to be all things to all people, that they miss the passion of the game. It's all about the $$$, hence all the cash shops popping up like heroin dealers. lol
We've lost the depth, the immersion, the risk and the reward. But we have music!
I mean honestly. SWG, VG, EQ, EQ2 were/are great games. Why not make an EQ 3? Stylized graphics for longevity? What does that even mean? Destructible world? Emergent AI? Great? No depth. Not great.
I'm not saying I won't play EQN. I'm just saying I'll probably be done in short time. So expect tons and tons of cash shop items to keep you in game. That's right, soon you'll be able to buy dyes, clothes, boxes, ore, plants, tools, etc... Oh wait; you already can (in Landmark). And the game is still in beta.
Cash is King. Passion is dead.
No offense, but it sounds like you just don't want change. It's fine to enjoy how things used to be, but do you know what happens to companies who don't change? They die.
- I see similar complaints about most IPs on these forums, tbh. And it always seems to come down to the same thing. People wanting reskins of their old favorites. However, it rarely stops there. They want 'new', but they can never describe exactly what that is. They basically want something exactly like game 'X', but not at the same time. So I ask you.
What from the previous EQ game(s) do you want? Do you want it identical to EQ1? If they did that, and barely any people played the game, would you honestly still play it? What's stopping you from enjoying EQ1 / 2 now? Etc. It seems that every new game announced people get ecstatic for, and the second any sort of actual info gets released they immediately do a 180 and label it 'crap'. I just have to wonder how many people here actually think about what their expectations are, and whether or not they are grounded in reality. But, i digress; to answer your bullet points:
1) Fully destructible worlds (and fully constructible ones) are a feature a lot of people have been asking for, for years. Everyone keeps asking for the ability to influence & change the world, and make 'meaningful' change. Destructible environments are part of that equation. You say this isn't the right type of change. Fine, then what is? Games don't get made on negatives. You need to actually have something concrete to build off of.
2) F2P. This is not an SoE invention. Demonize the company all you want, but be real here. F2P has been a recent trend that nearly every company has been getting onboard with. Why? Because it actually has proven to be more profitable than subscription based games. The few sub games that compete in terms of revenue are outliers when you look at them compared to everything else. Like it or not, F2P will be here for a while. Gamers got tired of paying monthly fees for practically no reason. They were justified in the past, by frequent game updates & content. However, when is the last time a sub game has actually delivered on that promise? They almost always provide infrequent (if any) content updates for the sub, and instead just keep charging you even more fees per expansion. I hate bad F2P models as much as the next guy, but bad subscriptions aren't any better.
3) Few abilities. I won't go into too much depth on this, but I'll just say (for the Nth time) that the amount of abilities on your skill bar has nothing to do with versatility, or how you play a character. Having 18 versions of fireball doesn't make a class more versatile. It makes it more redundant. Guild Wars is a perfect example of this. The first game had only 8 skills you could use, and yet it had way more versatility with builds than GW2 does. Even though GW2 gives you at least twice as many skills (sometimes more, depending on class). There are also numerous other games that can serve as examples of how untrue this idea actually is. If you prefer more skills on your skillbar, that's fine. But it doesn't make the combat any better, it's just what you are used to.
4) Class roles. They work because they simplify combat to the lowest common denominator. It's safe, but that doesn't mean it's the only way to design combat. It's comfortable, it's easy to understand, and that's why people like it. I get it. However, it isn't without it's own problems. For starters, certain classes (and I'm talking about the trinity here), are always underplayed in every game that has them. To this day, healers & tanks are always significantly more difficult to find than dps. The latest examples of this being Wildstar, ESO, and FFXIV. Each very different games, all have the same problem, and none of them are that old (which illustrates that not only is it a problem, but it's a problem that happens exponentially more frequently each year). And no one likes to wait around for hours trying to find a healer or a tank. It just isn't fun.
5) The marketing. This is a colossal 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' type of situation. And it makes me /facepalm to no end. I'm still on the fence about this game, but I know enough about it to realize that SOE has been trying (since the beginning) to involve players in the development of this game. Surprise, that means they don't know 100% what the game will end up as, because they are evolving it with the feedback they keep getting. That's how development works. If you think that any MMO ends up with a finished product that is identical to the original plan, well then you've never worked on a video game before. It never works out that way. This is yet another situation in which people have been asking for devs to listen to them, they do it, and then get criticized for it.
I think I've typed enough, but I'll end with this. No game is going to please you if you are constantly trying to compare it to something else entirely. There's a long list of great games that will never get a new paint job or graphics update. That's how the world works. If we kept going back and remaking outdated things we used to like, we'd never have time to try new things. So why not try and step out of your comfort zone, and try something new? Even if it's not EQN, look forward, not back. Play games to have fun, not to relive experiences you had 10-20 years ago.
The thing that most people don't seem to understand, is when you update a game like that, it effectively becomes a new game.
Think about it, if you have everything the same, but change / update all the artwork, what happens? You get some people who love the new look, and others that hate it. And thus some people won't play the game, because it's not true to how they remember the older graphics)
If you're also updating the combat, then it's not going to play the same way as the older game. And thus, some people won't play it, because it's not true to how they remembered the old combat.
If you're also updating the engine, then some features may carry over, but others may not. Which means you will have to change certain aspects of the game to fit the new engine. And thus, some people won't play the game, because it's not true to how they remember the original.
If you're also changing the economy, then the market doesn't function the same way that it used to. And thus some people won't play the game, because it's not true to the original.
And when you add it all up, you get a whole lot of somebodies not playing your game, for various reasons. And that's a huge deterrent for most studios trying to stay in business.
Now I know Horusra's post was made in sarcasm, but there's a lot of people (including the OP) who are asking for exactly that. And they don't seem to realize how absurd a request that actually is. Many of these games are still around. There's numerous private servers running WoW-Vanilla. And yet people don't play them. They just expect each new game to copy them. Except do a better job. But not too different a job, because it has to be the same. Oh hell, these stupid developers never know what they're doing, do they...
As soon as I got to this line I stopped caring, you're furthering the stereotype of F2P all because the western gaming world hasn't done it correct, fair, and just plain right yet.
Exactly this. There are mountains of empty EQ and WoW private servers that emulate that day 1 feel everyone fantasizes about with their rose-tinted glasses on. No one wants that crap.
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First of all, you are missing what I am saying. I am not claiming that Emergent AI won't be in the game, I'm not saying that the world won't be fully destructable. What I am saying is that these systems will never live up to the level of expectation you have created around them. And quite frankly, I would be very surprised if in the end, it's more gimmick then anything else. All these new mechanics will bring new and unforseen issues that no one can anticipate diminishing the added value of these new systems. Happened in GW2. You don't think it won't happen in EQN?
As for point 2? Again, you missed what I said. I never said ANET wasn't as reputable as SOE. Since SOE isn't reputable at all.
Again, I am not questioning that all the features will be in EQN. What I doubt is their effect, I seriously doubt they will create a better overall MMO experience than anything else out there.
So While you wait for the holy grail of gaming, I am yawning thinking
EQ?...........NEXT!
No I get what you're saying. I'm simply stating that it's subjective based on your wild imagination. GW2 delivered on everything it said it would. The fact that you liked it or not doesn't mean anything in the context of this conversation. They didn't say something was going to be in the game and then didn't deliver at least what they said it would.
SOE can absolute "live up to my expectations" because I'm not building it up in my head to be more than what they say it will be. So in the end, it will probably be about 95% - 110% of what I expected, based on what they said and what they've shown.
I also have no doubt that there are people like you out there who are never happy with anything. You hear of a concept, you extrapolate on it until, in your mind, it's this insanely wonderful and impossible feature, and then cry foul when they don't live up to your self-made hype and expectations that were already far beyond what they promised.
I get that. Some people are negative Nancy's who can't appreciate anything. You're welcome to that mind set and opinion.
But don't pretend like they're not going to deliver on what they've stated.
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