EVE and Perpetuum Online are the only Sandbox games that I know of. They are the only ones with a decay system. They both rely on PvP for all the decay and you can question the practical nature of that but it's decay.
I don't care what they call it. Without a decay system is has no longevity and is not a sandbox.
I would consider EVE a 'sandbox' as well however most likely the purest form of a sandbox MMO out there would be Wurm, Minecraft and second life (if minecraft can be considered a sandbox)
oh and Xyson
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar A decay system defines a sandbox? That's a new one.
And here I thought it was about the ability to create something. Whether it be building or events or character... you know like a sandbox.
they kind of go hand in hand. If you built a castle ina sandbox and it lasted forever, what would you build tomorrow ?
Decay doesn't mean other players have to be able to destroy it. It just means things players build shouldn't be permanent. SWG for example had durability and every time you repaired it the item lost some of it's max durability. At some point the item became unfixable and the player would have to buy/make a new one. without decay things tend to stagnate after a while.
Funny thing is firefall added a system like that in beta and the players revolted because they didn't want their purple loot to get destroyed!!!! So like sandboxes, the idea sounds great to the masses on paper, but put it in a game and you get...but in wow we didn't have to do that.
Simply put, humans have no idea what they want. The masses have latched on the buzzword "sandbox" and thus it should be. Until of course it happens then all humans do then is gripe, because they really didn't want what they thought they wanted but had no clue what it was until they had it.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar A decay system defines a sandbox? That's a new one.
And here I thought it was about the ability to create something. Whether it be building or events or character... you know like a sandbox.
they kind of go hand in hand. If you built a castle ina sandbox and it lasted forever, what would you build tomorrow ?
Decay doesn't mean other players have to be able to destroy it. It just means things players build shouldn't be permanent. SWG for example had durability and every time you repaired it the item lost some of it's max durability. At some point the item became unfixable and the player would have to buy/make a new one. without decay things tend to stagnate after a while.
Funny thing is firefall added a system like that in beta and the players revolted because they didn't want their purple loot to get destroyed!!!! So like sandboxes, the idea sounds great to the masses on paper, but put it in a game and you get...but in wow we didn't have to do that.
I find it funny when people refer to building and decay systems and do not mention Wurm Online.
lol...the father of building and decay systems for fuck sake
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
That in a nutshell is the depth of the thinking behind it. You don't even need to know what one really is, all you have to do is keep saying it and you'll look like you know and are asking for the right thing.
Pretty much this.
It is just marketing.
Themepark has become a dirty word, on the heels of TOR's "non-success", and disappointing receptions for ESO and other big budget themepark games.
Now they market "sandbox elements" and "non-linear questing" because if they say level based, gear grind, which the game really is, people won't play it.
What many players "want" is a bigger budget sandboxish game with a decent level of polish. The DF/MO/other cheap indie games didn't cut it, and TOR/ESO were obviously not sandboxes.
That leaves AA, which has more or less not been successful in Asia (and has a labor point systems people in the West will HATE), and The Repopulation, which is beset by several design decisions that do not help it much, as well as planning to be F2P/cashshop, which is NOT a good thing in a sandbox game.
So, in other words, people that want a polished sandbox game, are mostly out of luck.
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx It is a trend nothing more. Even though these MMOS are hardly sandbox. I don't even see any true sandbox releases on Horizon.
Landmark will be full sandbox. Not sure it qualifies as an MMO though.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Decay is a separate issue. Some people find that it is important but it us not a needed for a sandbox. It may help though. You can create just as much with it without decay.
Istaria one of the most sandbox games out there did not have decay at all.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Because people want non-linear gameplay. Developers offer alternative paths of leveling, and players think it's actually a sandbox because of it.
I've actually had someone tell me that GW2 was a sandbox because of non-linear leveling. I was in disbelief. lol.
It's really baffling how people can think "sandbox" = alternative leveling/progression, when it should mean user-created content that is generated by in-game tools. Shovel + Bucket + Sand + Box = Sandbox.
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx It is a trend nothing more. Even though these MMOS are hardly sandbox. I don't even see any true sandbox releases on Horizon.
Landmark will be full sandbox. Not sure it qualifies as an MMO though.
It's not an MMO yet, but the dev team is taking it that way. They added stats, treasure, progression, and later they will be adding mobs, pvp, and combat. Landmark had the potential though, to become a full sandbox, to rival Virtual World sandboxes such as SL and OpenSim. It's to be expected though, since they are using LM to develop EQN.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar A decay system defines a sandbox? That's a new one.
And here I thought it was about the ability to create something. Whether it be building or events or character... you know like a sandbox.
they kind of go hand in hand. If you built a castle ina sandbox and it lasted forever, what would you build tomorrow ?
Decay doesn't mean other players have to be able to destroy it. It just means things players build shouldn't be permanent. SWG for example had durability and every time you repaired it the item lost some of it's max durability. At some point the item became unfixable and the player would have to buy/make a new one. without decay things tend to stagnate after a while.
Funny thing is firefall added a system like that in beta and the players revolted because they didn't want their purple loot to get destroyed!!!! So like sandboxes, the idea sounds great to the masses on paper, but put it in a game and you get...but in wow we didn't have to do that.
I find it funny when people refer to building and decay systems and do not mention Wurm Online.
lol...the father of building and decay systems for fuck sake
Yeah you might want to rein in the nutjob fan thing. For one your post is weird and out of no where and.....How is a game the father of building and decay when the example I used is from a game that launched before worm even started development ?
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Decay is a separate issue. Some people find that it is important but it us not a needed for a sandbox. It may help though. You can create just as much with it without decay.
Istaria one of the most sandbox games out there did not have decay at all.
They invent new terms like "sandpark" in order to have their game included in the sandbox discussion.
That's not what the term sandpark is for at all. The point of labeling something a sandpark is to point out that it's _not_ a sandbox, and doesn't have the stereotypical flaws sandboxes have, such as lack of story/quests/npcs and crappy PvE combat.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar A decay system defines a sandbox? That's a new one.
And here I thought it was about the ability to create something. Whether it be building or events or character... you know like a sandbox.
they kind of go hand in hand. If you built a castle ina sandbox and it lasted forever, what would you build tomorrow ?
Decay doesn't mean other players have to be able to destroy it. It just means things players build shouldn't be permanent. SWG for example had durability and every time you repaired it the item lost some of it's max durability. At some point the item became unfixable and the player would have to buy/make a new one. without decay things tend to stagnate after a while.
Funny thing is firefall added a system like that in beta and the players revolted because they didn't want their purple loot to get destroyed!!!! So like sandboxes, the idea sounds great to the masses on paper, but put it in a game and you get...but in wow we didn't have to do that.
I find it funny when people refer to building and decay systems and do not mention Wurm Online.
lol...the father of building and decay systems for fuck sake
Yeah you might want to rein in the nutjob fan thing. For one your post is weird and out of no where and.....How is a game the father of building and decay when the example I used is from a game that launched before worm even started development ?
like i said, in a forum where people are pontificating about building things and decay and refering to games that barely have either its a bit funny.
anyway, you might have gotten in a crossfire I was thinking of Eve specifically which is funny as a game where you can 'build and have decay'. I might have gotten some posts mized up
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Well I dont want "my" game to be a sandbox, I want a hardcore PVE MMO. Start it by using using FFXI as a template. Same mechanics, new world, new awesomeness!!
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Originally posted by toddze Well I dont want "my" game to be a sandbox, I want a hardcore PVE MMO. Start it by using using FFXI as a template. Same mechanics, new world, new awesomeness!!
Multiplayer sandbox games are hugely popular. Far more so than almost any traditional MMORPG. Day Z, 7 days to die, hell, even Garry's mod are all incredibly popular. Some list themselves as MMORPGs, but they aren't what most people here would identify as such. And maybe that's the real issue...
I always wounder what the term "sandbox" really means... I have found two completely different meanings!
1. An MMO where there is no handholding, no quests, etc. However, players can craft almost everything.
2. There are no classes. Instead you have just to maximize your skills via brutal grinding in order to own everybody else in pvp.
Even in your def #1 you're combining two things that don't always go together. Personally I'd say the basic characteristics of a sandbox are an open world which has crafting focused on each player making buildings, storage, appliances, etc. for themselves, rather than gear for other players like in a themepark. They fairly often have some vestigial quests - crafting tutorials and/or a new player starting location which is the only pre-built NPC-populated location in the game world. Players being able to create quests for other players is also an accepted sandbox feature (that themeparks would pretty much never have).
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
Nail 4 4' long 2 x 4's in a square and add some sand. Put in a little water so the sand can be shaped. We've all used a sandbox at one time or another in our lives.
What does a sandbox have to do with MMO's? Nothing.
Minecraft is the closest thing to a sandbox I know of. It actually has something similar to sand.
Originally posted by toddze Well I dont want "my" game to be a sandbox, I want a hardcore PVE MMO. Start it by using using FFXI as a template. Same mechanics, new world, new awesomeness!!
+1
I never played 11, but one of the guys I used to work with did and he'd probably "QFT" this post.
We had a few discussions about the games we played, back then it was TBC WoW, but he'd bring up how he was always thinking about returning to 11.
I think sandbox is a term come to mean anything NOT themepark; ie: not focused on level adaptable areas. Sandbox is really a magical word culminating our dreams that one day someone will make an mmo that isn't f*ass boring. To be a player that says my game is sandbox you are saying I'm not leveling but having a blast playing. To be a game corp to say your game is sandbox means you've added a few playing options that don't require level grinding (and you're probably a liar but sales is god). MINECRAFT is the only sandbox I know of.
Comments
I would consider EVE a 'sandbox' as well however most likely the purest form of a sandbox MMO out there would be Wurm, Minecraft and second life (if minecraft can be considered a sandbox)
oh and Xyson
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
they kind of go hand in hand. If you built a castle ina sandbox and it lasted forever, what would you build tomorrow ?
Decay doesn't mean other players have to be able to destroy it. It just means things players build shouldn't be permanent. SWG for example had durability and every time you repaired it the item lost some of it's max durability. At some point the item became unfixable and the player would have to buy/make a new one. without decay things tend to stagnate after a while.
Funny thing is firefall added a system like that in beta and the players revolted because they didn't want their purple loot to get destroyed!!!! So like sandboxes, the idea sounds great to the masses on paper, but put it in a game and you get...but in wow we didn't have to do that.
I find it funny when people refer to building and decay systems and do not mention Wurm Online.
lol...the father of building and decay systems for fuck sake
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Pretty much this.
It is just marketing.
Themepark has become a dirty word, on the heels of TOR's "non-success", and disappointing receptions for ESO and other big budget themepark games.
Now they market "sandbox elements" and "non-linear questing" because if they say level based, gear grind, which the game really is, people won't play it.
What many players "want" is a bigger budget sandboxish game with a decent level of polish. The DF/MO/other cheap indie games didn't cut it, and TOR/ESO were obviously not sandboxes.
That leaves AA, which has more or less not been successful in Asia (and has a labor point systems people in the West will HATE), and The Repopulation, which is beset by several design decisions that do not help it much, as well as planning to be F2P/cashshop, which is NOT a good thing in a sandbox game.
So, in other words, people that want a polished sandbox game, are mostly out of luck.
Landmark will be full sandbox. Not sure it qualifies as an MMO though.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Theme Park has gotten a bad rap because of bad games, not because of Theme Parks.
Not exactly sure of the top 10 in order, but I'd probably be surprised if WoW, SWTOR and FFXIV weren't in the top 10.
All 3 are follow the same traditional Theme Park model. All three are very successful.
I think there is more than enough evidence to show that the WoW format still works.........Assuming the game is done right.
Istaria one of the most sandbox games out there did not have decay at all.
Because people want non-linear gameplay. Developers offer alternative paths of leveling, and players think it's actually a sandbox because of it.
I've actually had someone tell me that GW2 was a sandbox because of non-linear leveling. I was in disbelief. lol.
It's really baffling how people can think "sandbox" = alternative leveling/progression, when it should mean user-created content that is generated by in-game tools. Shovel + Bucket + Sand + Box = Sandbox.
It's not an MMO yet, but the dev team is taking it that way. They added stats, treasure, progression, and later they will be adding mobs, pvp, and combat. Landmark had the potential though, to become a full sandbox, to rival Virtual World sandboxes such as SL and OpenSim. It's to be expected though, since they are using LM to develop EQN.
Yeah you might want to rein in the nutjob fan thing. For one your post is weird and out of no where and.....How is a game the father of building and decay when the example I used is from a game that launched before worm even started development ?
Ok successful ones would need it :P
That's not what the term sandpark is for at all. The point of labeling something a sandpark is to point out that it's _not_ a sandbox, and doesn't have the stereotypical flaws sandboxes have, such as lack of story/quests/npcs and crappy PvE combat.
like i said, in a forum where people are pontificating about building things and decay and refering to games that barely have either its a bit funny.
anyway, you might have gotten in a crossfire I was thinking of Eve specifically which is funny as a game where you can 'build and have decay'. I might have gotten some posts mized up
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I always wounder what the term "sandbox" really means... I have found two completely different meanings!
1. An MMO where there is no handholding, no quests, etc. However, players can craft almost everything.
2. There are no classes. Instead you have just to maximize your skills via brutal grinding in order to own everybody else in pvp.
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
+1
Multiplayer sandbox games are hugely popular. Far more so than almost any traditional MMORPG. Day Z, 7 days to die, hell, even Garry's mod are all incredibly popular. Some list themselves as MMORPGs, but they aren't what most people here would identify as such. And maybe that's the real issue...
Even in your def #1 you're combining two things that don't always go together. Personally I'd say the basic characteristics of a sandbox are an open world which has crafting focused on each player making buildings, storage, appliances, etc. for themselves, rather than gear for other players like in a themepark. They fairly often have some vestigial quests - crafting tutorials and/or a new player starting location which is the only pre-built NPC-populated location in the game world. Players being able to create quests for other players is also an accepted sandbox feature (that themeparks would pretty much never have).
Nail 4 4' long 2 x 4's in a square and add some sand. Put in a little water so the sand can be shaped. We've all used a sandbox at one time or another in our lives.
What does a sandbox have to do with MMO's? Nothing.
Minecraft is the closest thing to a sandbox I know of. It actually has something similar to sand.
http://gnomophobia.com
I never played 11, but one of the guys I used to work with did and he'd probably "QFT" this post.
We had a few discussions about the games we played, back then it was TBC WoW, but he'd bring up how he was always thinking about returning to 11.