dunno why there is so much discussion/philosophizing in this thread.
its just the way these things work. this means they are about to roll out their PLANNED F2P conversion, now that they maximized how much money they could out of the 1st wave of customers (unless they try to squeeze out a paid-for expansion before then).
LATHER. RINSE. REPEAT.
this is just the standard cycle of the standard char progression focused MMO.
nothing to see here.
Several reasons:
The fall off of players seems to be rather more abrupt for this game than most mmo's.
The NCSoft quarterly financial report showed that the game was a long way off achieving in revenue even the most conservative estimates of its development cost.
The Carbine President has just stepped down (partly due to health/ family reasons).
NCSoft has a track record of being rather swift with the knife in under-performing games.
While I agree there is a standard life-cycle that essentially consists of making as much money out of the box, then the subscription, then the F2P cash shop and then when it is no longer profitable, shutting down ; I think this might be a rather different case, and if nothing else it makes interesting watching.
Originally posted by Purutzil Depends when you look at a game. You can find any game with "Low" numbers during off hours. Pergo I'm on is still very full and crowded so I've never seen any issues with population.
I mentioned it already that the screenshot was taken at 7 pm. I waited till 12.30 to see if any server would hit medium so that i get an indication about what server to choose to play the domi side. But nope, server status never changed.
But hey whatever floats your bloat. If you think this is all due to off time..then there is nothing i can do to make you face the reality.
Hardcore players really are a minority and are just not important to a games success any longer.
I say good riddance.
Maybe Square Enix will take notice and discontinue treating everyone to sloppy seconds of The Binding Coil of Bahamut just to appease a few hard core players. Of course, they did announce a "savage mode" for Coil, so maybe there is no hope.
Hardcore players really are a minority and are just not important to a games success any longer.
I say good riddance.
Maybe Square Enix will take notice and discontinue treating everyone to sloppy seconds of The Binding Coil of Bahamut just to appease a few hard core players. Of course, they did announce a "savage mode" for Coil, so maybe there is no hope.
well I still hold the position that its the mostly the art style choice that has made most gamers not interested but in all fairness I said the same thing about WoW
It's not the art style that killed it for me. It was the boring grind.
While leveling no need to grind, enough of quests and pretty fun available ... what killed game for me is that 1 toolbar. Same - and only - reason I left permanently also TSW.
Hardcore players really are a minority and are just not important to a games success any longer.
I say good riddance.
Maybe Square Enix will take notice and discontinue treating everyone to sloppy seconds of The Binding Coil of Bahamut just to appease a few hard core players. Of course, they did announce a "savage mode" for Coil, so maybe there is no hope.
Originally posted by keithian Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more....well... Insert adjective here______. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I love me some ESO SON! :P seriously i do!
I agree with Keith regarding review sites. The metacritic score for Wildstar is 82; all this tells me is that these reviews were written long before the initial veneer wore off and the core mechanics shone through, i.e. far too early to have any meaning. I think these reviewers were blinded by all the flashing text and urgent timers.
Most reviews and the pre-release hype articles on sites such as this are overwhelmingly positive where a little objectivity (or at least presenting an alternative viewpoint) would serve the site's users much better. I think the player response to WS certainly shows that a little more objectivity is required.
personally i find most mmo reviews to be a total joke,they make for a good laugh for me tho.I'd rather watch a favorite streamer play the game i would get more info out of that.
starting to think more and more you are correct. For me really it wasn't even about the raids or the fact that the graphics weren't for me...as I know everybody has different tastes. It was that 1/2 the game is PVE and the PVE was such a trivial hub based wall of text boring grindfest that I saw no reason why anyone would want to take a step backwards from more solid questing experiences like SWTOR or ESO or from an already established and polished with endless content world of Azeroth (WOW). Also, drawing way too much of your eyes to combat circles instead of to what was on the screen was a HUGE mistake and I think Bill the reviewer underestimated what happens when the core of the game itself is trivial compared to its established competition.
Originally posted by keithian Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more....well... Insert adjective here______. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I love me some ESO SON! :P seriously i do!
I agree with Keith regarding review sites. The metacritic score for Wildstar is 82; all this tells me is that these reviews were written long before the initial veneer wore off and the core mechanics shone through, i.e. far too early to have any meaning. I think these reviewers were blinded by all the flashing text and urgent timers.
Most reviews and the pre-release hype articles on sites such as this are overwhelmingly positive where a little objectivity (or at least presenting an alternative viewpoint) would serve the site's users much better. I think the player response to WS certainly shows that a little more objectivity is required.
personally i find most mmo reviews to be a total joke,they make for a good laugh for me tho.I'd rather watch a favorite streamer play the game i would get more info out of that.
starting to think more and more you are correct. For me really it wasn't even about the raids or the fact that the graphics weren't for me...as I know everybody has different tastes. It was that 1/2 the game is PVE and the PVE was such a trivial hub based wall of text boring grindfest that I saw no reason why anyone would want to take a step backwards from more solid questing experiences like SWTOR or ESO or from an already established and polished with endless content world of Azeroth (WOW). Also, drawing way too much of your eyes to combat circles instead of to what was on the screen was a HUGE mistake and I think Bill the reviewer underestimated what happens when the core of the game itself is trivial compared to its established competition.
As far as reviewers, it's obvious to me that NCsoft spreads the money around well. Say good things they might throw some money your way.
starting to think more and more you are correct. For me really it wasn't even about the raids or the fact that the graphics weren't for me...as I know everybody has different tastes. It was that 1/2 the game is PVE and the PVE was such a trivial hub based wall of text boring grindfest that I saw no reason why anyone would want to take a step backwards from more solid questing experiences like SWTOR or ESO or from an already established and polished with endless content world of Azeroth (WOW). Also, drawing way too much of your eyes to combat circles instead of to what was on the screen was a HUGE mistake and I think Bill the reviewer underestimated what happens when the core of the game itself is trivial compared to its established competition.
I think every new MMO, and especially those who still use quest texts, are going to be facing that problem. They would really have to distinguish themselves in some way to keep people from wondering why they are playing that game rather than WoW which has vast amounts of content more, or ESO and SWTOR with their fully voice acted and polished storylines.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Originally posted by keithian Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more....well... Insert adjective here______. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I love me some ESO SON! :P seriously i do!
I agree with Keith regarding review sites. The metacritic score for Wildstar is 82; all this tells me is that these reviews were written long before the initial veneer wore off and the core mechanics shone through, i.e. far too early to have any meaning. I think these reviewers were blinded by all the flashing text and urgent timers.
Most reviews and the pre-release hype articles on sites such as this are overwhelmingly positive where a little objectivity (or at least presenting an alternative viewpoint) would serve the site's users much better. I think the player response to WS certainly shows that a little more objectivity is required.
personally i find most mmo reviews to be a total joke,they make for a good laugh for me tho.I'd rather watch a favorite streamer play the game i would get more info out of that.
starting to think more and more you are correct. For me really it wasn't even about the raids or the fact that the graphics weren't for me...as I know everybody has different tastes. It was that 1/2 the game is PVE and the PVE was such a trivial hub based wall of text boring grindfest that I saw no reason why anyone would want to take a step backwards from more solid questing experiences like SWTOR or ESO or from an already established and polished with endless content world of Azeroth (WOW). Also, drawing way too much of your eyes to combat circles instead of to what was on the screen was a HUGE mistake and I think Bill the reviewer underestimated what happens when the core of the game itself is trivial compared to its established competition.
As far as reviewers, it's obvious to me that NCsoft spreads the money around well. Say good things they might throw some money your way.
And the tin hat award goes to ^
It seems that reviewers in general take on a title and play to a relatively low level, get invited by the Devs to run a dungeon or two, and jump to the writing. While it seems like they only 'taste' the game, I'm fairly certain they aren't as neurotic and ADHD prone as most of the crowd here. I've never seen a reviewer rush to end content and pronounce their Epeen-ness in a forum, proclaiming their review to be 'truth' or 'the reason why <insert game> is failing'. I'm also fairly certain that if a reviewer was paid by the Devs, THAT info would get leaked pretty quickly. Tin hat conspiracies are cute though.
The combat system is a clusterfuck. Cartoon graphics. 40 man hardcore raids or gtfo "said by her own developers". Massive grind for attunement. The walking animations are.....dont want to get banned so i wont say it. And they ask a subscription in a world where even tripple A mmo's are struggling to keep players from hopping from mmo to another mmo.
They made their dream mmo alright, but it isnt what people want to play these days.
I tell you this I honestly loved this game The art style was something I honestly enjoyed it went with the whole atmosphere and the jokes were good and I enjoyed reading the quests and playing the game. Yes sometimes there were too many quests but I would just not take some and all that did not bother me. I truly enjoyed reading the quests and the unique mobs.
What I could not take after awhile was the crazy telegraphs and then trying to heal others through it. This really destroyed the game for me. My reaction time sucked. I realised I cannot play this game at a level of skill that I would be proud of and I left. I have left many games over the years but this game I really did not want to and it makes me sad that I was forced to leave because I enjoy dungeons and grouping. I am now playing FFXIV ARR.
It is also my opinion that the game deserved the rating it got at metacritic because it is a good game. NC Soft did not pay for it bcbully and ESO your favourite game got the rating it deserved too in my opinion.
dunno why there is so much discussion/philosophizing in this thread.
its just the way these things work. this means they are about to roll out their PLANNED F2P conversion, now that they maximized how much money they could out of the 1st wave of customers (unless they try to squeeze out a paid-for expansion before then).
LATHER. RINSE. REPEAT.
this is just the standard cycle of the standard char progression focused MMO.
nothing to see here.
Two defining characteristics of avid MMO gamers:
- hope
- ignorant of history
This entire site is testament to that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by keithian Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more....well... Insert adjective here______. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I love me some ESO SON! :P seriously i do!
I agree with Keith regarding review sites. The metacritic score for Wildstar is 82; all this tells me is that these reviews were written long before the initial veneer wore off and the core mechanics shone through, i.e. far too early to have any meaning. I think these reviewers were blinded by all the flashing text and urgent timers.
Most reviews and the pre-release hype articles on sites such as this are overwhelmingly positive where a little objectivity (or at least presenting an alternative viewpoint) would serve the site's users much better. I think the player response to WS certainly shows that a little more objectivity is required.
personally i find most mmo reviews to be a total joke,they make for a good laugh for me tho.I'd rather watch a favorite streamer play the game i would get more info out of that.
starting to think more and more you are correct. For me really it wasn't even about the raids or the fact that the graphics weren't for me...as I know everybody has different tastes. It was that 1/2 the game is PVE and the PVE was such a trivial hub based wall of text boring grindfest that I saw no reason why anyone would want to take a step backwards from more solid questing experiences like SWTOR or ESO or from an already established and polished with endless content world of Azeroth (WOW). Also, drawing way too much of your eyes to combat circles instead of to what was on the screen was a HUGE mistake and I think Bill the reviewer underestimated what happens when the core of the game itself is trivial compared to its established competition.
As far as reviewers, it's obvious to me that NCsoft spreads the money around well. Say good things they might throw some money your way.
And the tin hat award goes to ^
It seems that reviewers in general take on a title and play to a relatively low level, get invited by the Devs to run a dungeon or two, and jump to the writing. While it seems like they only 'taste' the game, I'm fairly certain they aren't as neurotic and ADHD prone as most of the crowd here. I've never seen a reviewer rush to end content and pronounce their Epeen-ness in a forum, proclaiming their review to be 'truth' or 'the reason why is failing'. I'm also fairly certain that if a reviewer was paid by the Devs, THAT info would get leaked pretty quickly. Tin hat conspiracies are cute though.
I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or not...
I don't think anyone believes that devs/publishers pay reviewers directly for a good review. But sites like this one rely on site traffic to generate income from advertising. One way to get site traffic is by having exclusive interviews/previews with devs about upcoming games/expansions etc.
If a site gets known for publishing negative reviews the game publishers will stop offering exclusives. The site won't have anything to publish that we can't get from somewhere else, so we'll stop coming here in favour of those other sites. Site traffic goes down, revenue from advertising goes down and, eventually, site goes down.
Any review site that is reliant on advertising revenue has to keep the game devs/publishers on side or risk a lack of funding.
Unfortunately it's a catch 22 situation. If you start up a review site or you tube channel, to start with you can be totally honest with your opinions as you are not beholden to anyone but yourself. If you become popular you will get noticed by the publishers and they will start offering you freebies: Access to press events and betas etc. These early access pieces will increase your following and, if on You Tube, increase your own revenue from the annoying ads. And now they've got you. You don't want that revenue to drop so you keep the devs happy by saying nice things about their games.
Then of course the fact that all these early access press events are very carefully managed so that the press only see the really good, polished, bug free bits of the game. What is experienced probably is as good as the following article says. Once the game launches though everyone can now see all the un-finished, buggy bollocks that is the rest of the game. But the press now can't put out an honest review as 1) they'll look like idiots for publishing brilliant previews then a crap review and 2) a bad review will block them from any future press events for what could be truly great games.
The only we will ever get an unbiased review site is for someone to start one that doesn't ever take advertising from game publishers or the creators of anything that will ever be reviewed on the site and that is then visited by gamers that don';t mind not getting exclusive previews, articles and interviews with developers.
Now taking bets on how long it will take someone from MMORPG to come along and say that this isn't how they work and they publish what they truly think at the time and yadda yadda yadda...
Honestly the reason I quit was that the combat was taking a horrible toll on my shoulder and elbow joints. It was simply too much ,they need to tone the action stuff down.
How? Can't see how pressing wasd while playing puts any strain on shoulder/elbow.
Sorry to hear that WildStar is faring badly. I was so hyped up for the game but once I got into my first and only beta, I just couldn't take the graphics and eye jarring scenery. I so wanted to like it.
I had quite high hopes for Wildstar, but that all ended abruptly during my first beta weekend. The game just screamed OVERSTIMULATION and didn't let-up for a second. I was sort-of exhausted when I logged-out and just never logged back in again. Ever.
Yet I thought it might appeal to many other people. It seems I was wrong.
The entertainment industry can be brutal. Standing on stage and looking out at row upon row of empty seats must be very depressing. Looking at empty server after empty server equally so.
well I still hold the position that its the mostly the art style choice that has made most gamers not interested but in all fairness I said the same thing about WoW
Its not the art style lol. that is the only thing it has going for it.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Originally posted by Archlyte I hope all games that present a cartoon as their face enjoy this doom. EQNext specifically. Developers should be punished for being fucking foolish.
such mature so adult
The only way they will stop making this mistake is by being punished for it. Every WoW characteristic exaggerated into its own game must die.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
SWTOR is based on maybe the "heaviest" and most iconic IP out there. And this helped a lot in pulling the wagon out of the mud. Wildstar doesn't have this luxury. Carbine is in for a tough job in order to save the game. I hope they succeed.
Comments
Several reasons:
I mentioned it already that the screenshot was taken at 7 pm. I waited till 12.30 to see if any server would hit medium so that i get an indication about what server to choose to play the domi side. But nope, server status never changed.
But hey whatever floats your bloat. If you think this is all due to off time..then there is nothing i can do to make you face the reality.
Maybe Square Enix will take notice and discontinue treating everyone to sloppy seconds of The Binding Coil of Bahamut just to appease a few hard core players. Of course, they did announce a "savage mode" for Coil, so maybe there is no hope.
^ Lol wut?
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
While leveling no need to grind, enough of quests and pretty fun available ... what killed game for me is that 1 toolbar. Same - and only - reason I left permanently also TSW.
Yeaaah im lost too.
starting to think more and more you are correct. For me really it wasn't even about the raids or the fact that the graphics weren't for me...as I know everybody has different tastes. It was that 1/2 the game is PVE and the PVE was such a trivial hub based wall of text boring grindfest that I saw no reason why anyone would want to take a step backwards from more solid questing experiences like SWTOR or ESO or from an already established and polished with endless content world of Azeroth (WOW). Also, drawing way too much of your eyes to combat circles instead of to what was on the screen was a HUGE mistake and I think Bill the reviewer underestimated what happens when the core of the game itself is trivial compared to its established competition.
There Is Always Hope!
As far as reviewers, it's obvious to me that NCsoft spreads the money around well. Say good things they might throw some money your way.
I think every new MMO, and especially those who still use quest texts, are going to be facing that problem. They would really have to distinguish themselves in some way to keep people from wondering why they are playing that game rather than WoW which has vast amounts of content more, or ESO and SWTOR with their fully voice acted and polished storylines.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
And the tin hat award goes to ^
It seems that reviewers in general take on a title and play to a relatively low level, get invited by the Devs to run a dungeon or two, and jump to the writing. While it seems like they only 'taste' the game, I'm fairly certain they aren't as neurotic and ADHD prone as most of the crowd here. I've never seen a reviewer rush to end content and pronounce their Epeen-ness in a forum, proclaiming their review to be 'truth' or 'the reason why <insert game> is failing'. I'm also fairly certain that if a reviewer was paid by the Devs, THAT info would get leaked pretty quickly. Tin hat conspiracies are cute though.
Who dint see that one comming ?
Honestly.....
The combat system is a clusterfuck.
Cartoon graphics.
40 man hardcore raids or gtfo "said by her own developers".
Massive grind for attunement.
The walking animations are.....dont want to get banned so i wont say it.
And they ask a subscription in a world where even tripple A mmo's are struggling to keep players from hopping from mmo to another mmo.
They made their dream mmo alright, but it isnt what people want to play these days.
I tell you this I honestly loved this game The art style was something I honestly enjoyed it went with the whole atmosphere and the jokes were good and I enjoyed reading the quests and playing the game. Yes sometimes there were too many quests but I would just not take some and all that did not bother me. I truly enjoyed reading the quests and the unique mobs.
What I could not take after awhile was the crazy telegraphs and then trying to heal others through it. This really destroyed the game for me. My reaction time sucked. I realised I cannot play this game at a level of skill that I would be proud of and I left. I have left many games over the years but this game I really did not want to and it makes me sad that I was forced to leave because I enjoy dungeons and grouping. I am now playing FFXIV ARR.
It is also my opinion that the game deserved the rating it got at metacritic because it is a good game. NC Soft did not pay for it bcbully and ESO your favourite game got the rating it deserved too in my opinion.
Two defining characteristics of avid MMO gamers:
- hope
- ignorant of history
This entire site is testament to that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or not...
I don't think anyone believes that devs/publishers pay reviewers directly for a good review. But sites like this one rely on site traffic to generate income from advertising. One way to get site traffic is by having exclusive interviews/previews with devs about upcoming games/expansions etc.
If a site gets known for publishing negative reviews the game publishers will stop offering exclusives. The site won't have anything to publish that we can't get from somewhere else, so we'll stop coming here in favour of those other sites. Site traffic goes down, revenue from advertising goes down and, eventually, site goes down.
Any review site that is reliant on advertising revenue has to keep the game devs/publishers on side or risk a lack of funding.
Unfortunately it's a catch 22 situation. If you start up a review site or you tube channel, to start with you can be totally honest with your opinions as you are not beholden to anyone but yourself. If you become popular you will get noticed by the publishers and they will start offering you freebies: Access to press events and betas etc. These early access pieces will increase your following and, if on You Tube, increase your own revenue from the annoying ads. And now they've got you. You don't want that revenue to drop so you keep the devs happy by saying nice things about their games.
Then of course the fact that all these early access press events are very carefully managed so that the press only see the really good, polished, bug free bits of the game. What is experienced probably is as good as the following article says. Once the game launches though everyone can now see all the un-finished, buggy bollocks that is the rest of the game. But the press now can't put out an honest review as 1) they'll look like idiots for publishing brilliant previews then a crap review and 2) a bad review will block them from any future press events for what could be truly great games.
The only we will ever get an unbiased review site is for someone to start one that doesn't ever take advertising from game publishers or the creators of anything that will ever be reviewed on the site and that is then visited by gamers that don';t mind not getting exclusive previews, articles and interviews with developers.
Now taking bets on how long it will take someone from MMORPG to come along and say that this isn't how they work and they publish what they truly think at the time and yadda yadda yadda...
How? Can't see how pressing wasd while playing puts any strain on shoulder/elbow.Pi*1337/100 = 42
Easymode leveling made me quit before level 15.
Didn't even get a chance to judge the endgame..
So sad to see this happen to a game.
I had quite high hopes for Wildstar, but that all ended abruptly during my first beta weekend. The game just screamed OVERSTIMULATION and didn't let-up for a second. I was sort-of exhausted when I logged-out and just never logged back in again. Ever.
Yet I thought it might appeal to many other people. It seems I was wrong.
The entertainment industry can be brutal. Standing on stage and looking out at row upon row of empty seats must be very depressing. Looking at empty server after empty server equally so.
Its not the art style lol. that is the only thing it has going for it.
such matureso adult
Pi*1337/100 = 42
The only way they will stop making this mistake is by being punished for it. Every WoW characteristic exaggerated into its own game must die.
SWTOR is based on maybe the "heaviest" and most iconic IP out there. And this helped a lot in pulling the wagon out of the mud. Wildstar doesn't have this luxury. Carbine is in for a tough job in order to save the game. I hope they succeed.