I have nostalgia for the first games I played, but when I go back to play them I soon remember why I left.
Currently, I am about to jump into ArcheAge, but also hop in and out of GW2, Rift, LOTRO, Eve, EQ2 playing each for 2-6 months at a time, depending on my mood. SWTOR I also like, but havent been back to for a while (I probably should pop back).
As to why I havent found a game that I play exclusively for 4+ years? Because now I have more choice. So, superficially, it can seem like I haven't found "the one", but that is because I realise that there is no "the one" for me, there are many, which I return to again and again, like those favourite series or movies that you keep going back to.
Its not nostalgia or the first time feeling someone is trying to get back, simply put no one MMO since UO or SWG has been able to put all the features that those games had into one game. Developers take parts and pieces of those games and put them in their games but not everything, and what they do bring in is often just a shadow of those games in its complexity.
I honestly don't think developers have the resources to do it, they are too focused on the "screenshot" and "video" aspects of their game, in other words the visual presentation. It just eats up too much of their production time and budget and there is little left for raw feature adds.
there is more diversity in restaurants then in MMOs.
Quantity of the same thing doesnt mean variety.
That's what I meant.
People just had enough of WoW or they didn't like it in the first place, so building more WoW clones with teeny tiny teaks in them won't solve the problem. I would be glad if the industry would at least give us a taco once in a while instead of nothing but the same WoW-burgers wrapped in different coloured boxes.
I'm sick of the defence that it is just the players fault that they are not enjoying all the samey mmos that get pumped out.
there is more diversity in restaurants then in MMOs.
Quantity of the same thing doesnt mean variety.
That's what I meant.
People just had enough of WoW or they didn't like it in the first place, so building more WoW clones with teeny tiny teaks in them won't solve the problem. I would be glad if the industry would at least give us a taco once in a while instead of nothing but the same WoW-burgers wrapped in different coloured boxes.
I'm sick of the defence that it is just the players fault that they are not enjoying all the samey mmos that get pumped out.
exactly.
oh look a fantasy based, combat focused, quest/class focused MMO just what we need!
'yeah but this one is different because it has 5 factions instead of 3.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
We who have played MMOs for 10-15 years always have fond memories when we played in the "old" days and we are all looking for the next big thing that will take us back to that forgotten era, but when a new MMO comes along, we find faults in it.
I think because most new MMOs are nothing like the ones of old
This entire genre was built on the idea of making bigger and better world.
However at a certain point that plateaus, and it becomes nearly impossible to make new giant 'leaps' in progress from the last game. And that's where we're at currently.
Most new games have some type of improvement from previous ones, but it's usually very minor / overlooked. And older, genre veterans look at this and remember fondly at the games they used to play.
It's essentially a combination of nostalgia, comfort (prefering that which you are already used to), and extremely inflated expectations that has brought us to this point. With every new game over the years, our expectation for subsequent games has skyrocketed. Now most studios are struggling to keep up, and indeed many are looking at alternative ways to make a game, without creating a massive flop.
There will always be jaded old gamers, but i suspect over time there will be things to enjoy / look forward to. As well as a new generation of jaded gamers who look back fondly on those games we currently hate.
This entire genre was built on the idea of making bigger and better world.
However at a certain point that plateaus, and it becomes nearly impossible to make new giant 'leaps' in progress from the last game. And that's where we're at currently.
Most new games have some type of improvement from previous ones, but it's usually very minor / overlooked. And older, genre veterans look at this and remember fondly at the games they used to play.
It's essentially a combination of nostalgia, comfort (prefering that which you are already used to), and extremely inflated expectations that has brought us to this point. With every new game over the years, our expectation for subsequent games has skyrocketed. Now most studios are struggling to keep up, and indeed many are looking at alternative ways to make a game, without creating a massive flop.
There will always be jaded old gamers, but i suspect over time there will be things to enjoy / look forward to. As well as a new generation of jaded gamers who look back fondly on those games we currently hate.
couldnt disagree more
how about games without combat? more construction focused games? games like Kerbal Space Program? games without classes? games without quests? games in other genres like the old west.
There is more you can do with video games then you can with movies and yet movies have a larger diversity of content.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
For me the turn off is lack of control. I want more power over my UI, character appearance, crafting and domestic cyber spot. I want to design my own clothes and my own mount. Breed critters. Baring this I just want a heck of a lot of options. The actual fighting seems pointless even in a PvE setting. I have a health bar. It has a health bar. Nothing new there. Jumping around a lot just gets on my nerves. I'm old and spend half my time snoozing, in games or out of them; no jumping.
I keep trying new mmo's because of the people. I want to talk on forums. Read what they say. Meet another drow in game and high five. Laugh at someone's typed Dwarf accent. Just watch people being creative with what they're given. No matter how bad it gets the people still have a way of making it fun.
We who have played MMOs for 10-15 years always have fond memories when we played in the "old" days and we are all looking for the next big thing that will take us back to that forgotten era, but when a new MMO comes along, we find faults in it.
I think because most new MMOs are nothing like the ones of old
We who have played MMOs for 10-15 years always have fond memories when we played in the "old" days and we are all looking for the next big thing that will take us back to that forgotten era, but when a new MMO comes along, we find faults in it.
I think because most new MMOs are nothing like the ones of old
This entire genre was built on the idea of making bigger and better world.
However at a certain point that plateaus, and it becomes nearly impossible to make new giant 'leaps' in progress from the last game. And that's where we're at currently.
Most new games have some type of improvement from previous ones, but it's usually very minor / overlooked. And older, genre veterans look at this and remember fondly at the games they used to play.
It's essentially a combination of nostalgia, comfort (prefering that which you are already used to), and extremely inflated expectations that has brought us to this point. With every new game over the years, our expectation for subsequent games has skyrocketed. Now most studios are struggling to keep up, and indeed many are looking at alternative ways to make a game, without creating a massive flop.
There will always be jaded old gamers, but i suspect over time there will be things to enjoy / look forward to. As well as a new generation of jaded gamers who look back fondly on those games we currently hate.
I don't think that this is the problem. Look at ESO for example. It is a very polished an well made game with a huge budget. It does well what it does. The problem is that the same stuff has been done a hundred times before, so all the effort was wasted.
Imagine all the afford and money had gone into a more sandboxy game that was true to the feel of the Elder Scrolls franchise. The money is there.
I think it is twisting words to call the people who demand innovation jaded. The mmo-genre has stagnated for the last decade and we only want it to live up to its potential. I'm not asking for a recreation of SWG but for a spiritual successor.
The mmo genre has gone trough a bottleneck with the advent of WoW. Maybe it is time look at old ideas again that haven't been tried for a very long time and to do something new with it.
I still have great hopes for EQN, although we need to wait and see what kind of game they are planning to release and if they are going to release anything at all.
We who have played MMOs for 10-15 years always have fond memories when we played in the "old" days and we are all looking for the next big thing that will take us back to that forgotten era, but when a new MMO comes along, we find faults in it.
I think because most new MMOs are nothing like the ones of old
The old ones failed for a reason, you know...
Failed at what ?
Failed to keep players, that's why they all changed and people complained about them. The old-school method failed.
I don't think that this is the problem. Look at ESO for example. It is a very polished an well made game with a huge budget. It does well what it does. The problem is that the same stuff has been done a hundred times before, so all the effort was wasted.
Imagine all the afford and money had gone into a more sandboxy game that was true to the feel of the Elder Scrolls franchise. The money is there.
How do you know that? Certainly there is plenty of money there for more SP Elder Scrolls games, every one that comes out is more successful than the one that came before. For an MMO though? I don't think so, in fact, I always thought ESO was a big mistake because the franchise isn't geared toward multiplayer. I think it's absurd that MMOs try to make EVERYONE the hero. That's what SP games do. It just makes no sense in a multi-player game.
In reality, ESO is just a standard themepark game with "Elder Scrolls" slapped on it. It isn't Elder Scrolls at all.
I think it is twisting words to call the people who demand innovation jaded. The mmo-genre has stagnated for the last decade and we only want it to live up to its potential. I'm not asking for a recreation of SWG but for a spiritual successor.
The mmo genre has gone trough a bottleneck with the advent of WoW. Maybe it is time look at old ideas again that haven't been tried for a very long time and to do something new with it.
I still have great hopes for EQN, although we need to wait and see what kind of game they are planning to release and if they are going to release anything at all.
Yet so many people want the genre to go BACKWARDS. They want to remake games of the past, games that ultimately failed as more people came into the genre from the outside. I agree that the genre has stagnated, but going back to how things used to be, things that changed for a reason because the majority of people playing the games didn't like them, seems rather silly.
People are still clinging to old, sometimes flawed designs when even the classic designers like Garriott have evolved and improved their design philosophies.
Originally posted by jusomdude People are still clinging to old, sometimes flawed designs when even the classic designers like Garriott have evolved and improved their design philosophies.
Perfect not always "good" , you know what make human and what human create interest ?
Failed to keep players, that's why they all changed and people complained about them. The old-school method failed.
I'm not sure whether that is true. SWG was doing fine and its players where not running away. The same is true for EVE. SWG was on par with EQ or DAOC. The mmo-market was rather small back then.
When SWG introduced NGE and pretty much made the game into a themepark, there was a mass exodus.
You have to consider that we are not talking about a one-to-one recreation of SWG or OU with modern graphics, but more of a spiritual successor. And it certainly can't be that kind of super niche PVP-FFA sandbox like Darkfall.
I think the market is there, because the players are starting to get bored with WoW styled themeparks and are looking for something different.
Almost every new MMO has linear questing, voice overs and cut scenes, meaningless crafting, dungeon finder, instanced PvP, very small skill bar, etc.
In addition, even some of the older games have been redesigned towards this model (LotRO, Cabal, WoW, to name few).
I honestly can't find an MMO that suits for me and my playstyle and preferencies.
The games that look promising and have those features i do like, are all about PvP and lack longevity in PvE (Darkfall, ArcheAge, EvE, etc.).
I'd love to like these new games, but one after another i find them nothing more than single player games with an end game that makes you repeat the same content over and over again, and even as such they usually fail to deliver.
I know talking about WoW is getting old, but i still think the original WoW almost nailed it in terms of gameplay. Some minor tweaks and we would have had a perfect MMO, at least for PvE players.
I think for many people it's nostalgia. Reality tends to have a hard time competing with it.
While others fell in love with certain game mechanics/features that have fallen out of favor in today's modern MMOs, because they were too boring, too grindy, forced people to group or GTFO, etc...
I would agree with this except that I still play to this day UO and EVE and still do not enjoy newer mmorpgs. One game however i'll admit was not as good as hyped was SWG. I recently went back and played the emulator and did not find it as fun as the first time around. However, UO to this day is just as fun to me as it once was. Games today i find boring and horrible not because of nostalgia but because they are just frankly crap compared to the games I used to play and still play. Now, i still hold hope there will be some good titles in future we'll see. But im sick of being told my opinions are not validated because these games are too old and i dont know what im talking about anymore. That is horseshit. My opinions are not wrong or false they are just how I feel and they are incredibly recent within the last hour of playing these games. So those people shouting rose tinted glasses at me can kindly stop please.
We who have played MMOs for 10-15 years always have fond memories when we played in the "old" days and we are all looking for the next big thing that will take us back to that forgotten era, but when a new MMO comes along, we find faults in it.
I think because most new MMOs are nothing like the ones of old
The old ones failed for a reason, you know...
Failed at what ?
Failed to keep players, that's why they all changed and people complained about them. The old-school method failed.
UO and EQ are still running, even if they changed it doesn't mean that they failed. They are both the games I played and enjoyed the most. They introduced the mass to the mmo genre and paved the way. Both games were really successfull.
Yet so many people want the genre to go BACKWARDS. They want to remake games of the past, games that ultimately failed as more people came into the genre from the outside. I agree that the genre has stagnated, but going back to how things used to be, things that changed for a reason because the majority of people playing the games didn't like them, seems rather silly.
Most only failed if WoW is the only MMO you define as success. I'd say a failed MMO is one that shuts down after several years (Like Warhammer or Vanguard even though I did like Vanguard) A game that generates enough interest to keep its servers open for 10 or 15 years and make even a small profit isn't a failure.
I don't want people to slavishly copy games of the past. That would be as bad as making yet another WoW clone but developers need to mine these games for the genuinely good ideas they had rather than just write them off as failures. Otherwise it's just trying to invent the wheel over and over again.
Comments
I have nostalgia for the first games I played, but when I go back to play them I soon remember why I left.
Currently, I am about to jump into ArcheAge, but also hop in and out of GW2, Rift, LOTRO, Eve, EQ2 playing each for 2-6 months at a time, depending on my mood. SWTOR I also like, but havent been back to for a while (I probably should pop back).
As to why I havent found a game that I play exclusively for 4+ years? Because now I have more choice. So, superficially, it can seem like I haven't found "the one", but that is because I realise that there is no "the one" for me, there are many, which I return to again and again, like those favourite series or movies that you keep going back to.
Its not nostalgia or the first time feeling someone is trying to get back, simply put no one MMO since UO or SWG has been able to put all the features that those games had into one game. Developers take parts and pieces of those games and put them in their games but not everything, and what they do bring in is often just a shadow of those games in its complexity.
I honestly don't think developers have the resources to do it, they are too focused on the "screenshot" and "video" aspects of their game, in other words the visual presentation. It just eats up too much of their production time and budget and there is little left for raw feature adds.
If I was willing to pay a sub, which I'm not now, I'd play WoW or EVE.
If you want free to play, I'd go SWTOR or Rift. There are a lot of f2p games out there.
http://gnomophobia.com
That's what I meant.
People just had enough of WoW or they didn't like it in the first place, so building more WoW clones with teeny tiny teaks in them won't solve the problem. I would be glad if the industry would at least give us a taco once in a while instead of nothing but the same WoW-burgers wrapped in different coloured boxes.
I'm sick of the defence that it is just the players fault that they are not enjoying all the samey mmos that get pumped out.
exactly.
oh look a fantasy based, combat focused, quest/class focused MMO just what we need!
'yeah but this one is different because it has 5 factions instead of 3.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I think because most new MMOs are nothing like the ones of old
There is more variety in types of games than ever before. More themepark more sandbox queasy based non quest based... than at any other time.
in the MMO world this is incorrect.
having said that I do play Eve and Wurm (wurm being a non-combat focused non-quest focused MMO)
name us 3 MMOs that are not quest focused or class focused or best of all..not combat focused.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
This entire genre was built on the idea of making bigger and better world.
However at a certain point that plateaus, and it becomes nearly impossible to make new giant 'leaps' in progress from the last game. And that's where we're at currently.
Most new games have some type of improvement from previous ones, but it's usually very minor / overlooked. And older, genre veterans look at this and remember fondly at the games they used to play.
It's essentially a combination of nostalgia, comfort (prefering that which you are already used to), and extremely inflated expectations that has brought us to this point. With every new game over the years, our expectation for subsequent games has skyrocketed. Now most studios are struggling to keep up, and indeed many are looking at alternative ways to make a game, without creating a massive flop.
There will always be jaded old gamers, but i suspect over time there will be things to enjoy / look forward to. As well as a new generation of jaded gamers who look back fondly on those games we currently hate.
couldnt disagree more
how about games without combat? more construction focused games? games like Kerbal Space Program? games without classes? games without quests? games in other genres like the old west.
There is more you can do with video games then you can with movies and yet movies have a larger diversity of content.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For me the turn off is lack of control. I want more power over my UI, character appearance, crafting and domestic cyber spot. I want to design my own clothes and my own mount. Breed critters. Baring this I just want a heck of a lot of options. The actual fighting seems pointless even in a PvE setting. I have a health bar. It has a health bar. Nothing new there. Jumping around a lot just gets on my nerves. I'm old and spend half my time snoozing, in games or out of them; no jumping.
I keep trying new mmo's because of the people. I want to talk on forums. Read what they say. Meet another drow in game and high five. Laugh at someone's typed Dwarf accent. Just watch people being creative with what they're given. No matter how bad it gets the people still have a way of making it fun.
The old ones failed for a reason, you know...
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Failed at what ?
I don't think that this is the problem. Look at ESO for example. It is a very polished an well made game with a huge budget. It does well what it does. The problem is that the same stuff has been done a hundred times before, so all the effort was wasted.
Imagine all the afford and money had gone into a more sandboxy game that was true to the feel of the Elder Scrolls franchise. The money is there.
I think it is twisting words to call the people who demand innovation jaded. The mmo-genre has stagnated for the last decade and we only want it to live up to its potential. I'm not asking for a recreation of SWG but for a spiritual successor.
The mmo genre has gone trough a bottleneck with the advent of WoW. Maybe it is time look at old ideas again that haven't been tried for a very long time and to do something new with it.
I still have great hopes for EQN, although we need to wait and see what kind of game they are planning to release and if they are going to release anything at all.
Failed to keep players, that's why they all changed and people complained about them. The old-school method failed.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
How do you know that? Certainly there is plenty of money there for more SP Elder Scrolls games, every one that comes out is more successful than the one that came before. For an MMO though? I don't think so, in fact, I always thought ESO was a big mistake because the franchise isn't geared toward multiplayer. I think it's absurd that MMOs try to make EVERYONE the hero. That's what SP games do. It just makes no sense in a multi-player game.
In reality, ESO is just a standard themepark game with "Elder Scrolls" slapped on it. It isn't Elder Scrolls at all.
Yet so many people want the genre to go BACKWARDS. They want to remake games of the past, games that ultimately failed as more people came into the genre from the outside. I agree that the genre has stagnated, but going back to how things used to be, things that changed for a reason because the majority of people playing the games didn't like them, seems rather silly.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Perfect not always "good" , you know what make human and what human create interest ?
Yes , perfect is good , but flaw is interest .
What we search from games , good or interest ?
I pretty much disagree with everyones reasoning on this thread.
To me its not a matter of tweaks, its a matter of exploring completely and totally different genre's.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'm not sure whether that is true. SWG was doing fine and its players where not running away. The same is true for EVE. SWG was on par with EQ or DAOC. The mmo-market was rather small back then.
When SWG introduced NGE and pretty much made the game into a themepark, there was a mass exodus.
You have to consider that we are not talking about a one-to-one recreation of SWG or OU with modern graphics, but more of a spiritual successor. And it certainly can't be that kind of super niche PVP-FFA sandbox like Darkfall.
I think the market is there, because the players are starting to get bored with WoW styled themeparks and are looking for something different.
Almost every new MMO has linear questing, voice overs and cut scenes, meaningless crafting, dungeon finder, instanced PvP, very small skill bar, etc.
In addition, even some of the older games have been redesigned towards this model (LotRO, Cabal, WoW, to name few).
I honestly can't find an MMO that suits for me and my playstyle and preferencies.
The games that look promising and have those features i do like, are all about PvP and lack longevity in PvE (Darkfall, ArcheAge, EvE, etc.).
I'd love to like these new games, but one after another i find them nothing more than single player games with an end game that makes you repeat the same content over and over again, and even as such they usually fail to deliver.
I know talking about WoW is getting old, but i still think the original WoW almost nailed it in terms of gameplay. Some minor tweaks and we would have had a perfect MMO, at least for PvE players.
I would agree with this except that I still play to this day UO and EVE and still do not enjoy newer mmorpgs. One game however i'll admit was not as good as hyped was SWG. I recently went back and played the emulator and did not find it as fun as the first time around. However, UO to this day is just as fun to me as it once was. Games today i find boring and horrible not because of nostalgia but because they are just frankly crap compared to the games I used to play and still play. Now, i still hold hope there will be some good titles in future we'll see. But im sick of being told my opinions are not validated because these games are too old and i dont know what im talking about anymore. That is horseshit. My opinions are not wrong or false they are just how I feel and they are incredibly recent within the last hour of playing these games. So those people shouting rose tinted glasses at me can kindly stop please.
UO and EQ are still running, even if they changed it doesn't mean that they failed. They are both the games I played and enjoyed the most. They introduced the mass to the mmo genre and paved the way. Both games were really successfull.
How is this worst than about any other threads. People not agreeing with you is hurting your feelings ?
Most only failed if WoW is the only MMO you define as success. I'd say a failed MMO is one that shuts down after several years (Like Warhammer or Vanguard even though I did like Vanguard) A game that generates enough interest to keep its servers open for 10 or 15 years and make even a small profit isn't a failure.
I don't want people to slavishly copy games of the past. That would be as bad as making yet another WoW clone but developers need to mine these games for the genuinely good ideas they had rather than just write them off as failures. Otherwise it's just trying to invent the wheel over and over again.