When gamers are screaming for f2p and these games give you that they still have to make money. Most players are like hit and run drivers so asking them to spend out of the feeling that the game is deserving of some cash is naive and stupid. So they find ways to make you spend the money you should be spending supporting them. However when it includes games where I am also paying a subscription that is damn low unless it is cosmetic or everything available in cash shop is also in game. Well you know what they say about be afraid of getting what you asked for. Here is the future of MMORPG.
Yep, that's the main issue. Archeage isn't actually F2P. Well, you can TRY playing it F2P but good luck with that. You really have to subscribe to get anywhere.
Part of the reason lots of people are so pissed about this is because you have to subscribe AND there's some P2Win aspects in the cash shop on top of that.
When gamers are screaming for f2p and these games give you that they still have to make money. Most players are like hit and run drivers so asking them to spend out of the feeling that the game is deserving of some cash is naive and stupid. So they find ways to make you spend the money you should be spending supporting them. However when it includes games where I am also paying a subscription that is damn low unless it is cosmetic or everything available in cash shop is also in game. Well you know what they say about be afraid of getting what you asked for. Here is the future of MMORPG.
Keep in mind I absolutely hate f2p, but I'll never understand why people think profiting from f2p is impressive or impacting the future of the industry. For example, swtor is viewed by many to be a hit because of the money they've made from their cash shop after the massive p2p flop, but fail to understand that the cash shop consumer base is based entirely around hungry individuals that will throw their money at the screen for additional enjoyment. Those are the people that they are trying to target with stuff like this. However, this is not the future of MMORPG. The whole reason they have to target the cash shop spenders is because they're not enough people that would be loyal to the sub model for these games.
I have concluded that as a casual subscription player you will benefit from cash shop. I work and my best times in gaming were had in fairly deep mmo systems similar to what ArcheAge seems to be.
What all this means to me is...I get plenty of labor points for my 90 minute to 3 hour sessions. If I have several days off and want to spend a day on crafting I can always purchase labor point potions to allow me an extra long session. If I can't play for a week and feel I have fallen behind RL friends or guildmates I can buy labor point potions and gain some ground again.
I don't really think any subscribers would pay the kind of money to keep labor points on tilt for months...there is just no economic sense there.
That being said there may be a few e-peen types that really are obsessed and go overboard the first month.
So what......
It's not going to effect me. I will do my own thing and have fun with the subscription model and may grab something once in a while from the shop if it is beneficial and priced right.
I have concluded that as a casual subscription player you will benefit from cash shop. I work and my best times in gaming were had in fairly deep mmo systems similar to what ArcheAge seems to be.
What all this means to me is...I get plenty of labor points for my 90 minute to 3 hour sessions. If I have several days off and want to spend a day on crafting I can always purchase labor point potions to allow me an extra long session. If I can't play for a week and feel I have fallen behind RL friends or guildmates I can buy labor point potions and gain some ground again.
I don't really think any subscribers would pay the kind of money to keep labor points on tilt for months...there is just no economic sense there.
That being said there may be a few e-peen types that really are obsessed and go overboard the first month.
So what......
It's not going to effect me. I will do my own thing and have fun with the subscription model and may grab something once in a while from the shop if it is beneficial and priced right.
Woah there! There is no place here for that kind of logic Karble =P I agree play the game that makes you happy.
This thread alone is proof positive you don't need to spend one red cent on marketing... word of mouth is free and there's plenty of it. The more threads that open up, the more people will hear about ArcheAge. The servers are going to be packed even more so than they already are right now come launch.
I like the current model for the game. People that can afford to pay can do so. I like spending money on MMO's. It is my hobby. F2P players can upgrade via APEX. F2P players that put in a bit of effort can end up with all the benefits of subscribers.
I don't know enough about this title to make a fair judgement. Can someone please explain to me how these changes will impact the game in a way that will make it Pay to Win? I'm genuinely curious as I've been interested in the title but holding off on getting too much info to avoid pre-launch hype/burnout.
Here is what Community Manager also stated (Scapes)
"For more details, here's the Archeum Supply Crate tooltip: "Includes a variety of consumables, components, and regrade items, with a bonus chance of archeum. Rumor has it the legendary pack-donkey, Carrot Dash, can occasionally be found within!""
To be perfectly honest, I'm not seeing much P2W at all. They have the one item that has a chance at dropping a rare crafting material. It's still something that can be obtained in game, even with a low drop rate. So it's more of a P2PotentiallyShortcutSomeGrinding.
Even if you made all of the best gear first, your advantage would fade with time as more and more people obtained the best gear as well.
It's a grindy game. This has been known since launch in Korea. Trion seems to have very little creative control over most of the game features. So, nothing should really be surprising at this point.
* The drop rate of Sunlight Archeum has been increased, and we will be evaluating the levels of Sunlight, Moonlight, and Starlight Archeum for further drop rate adjustments.
People should undestand one thing: ¨MMOs are not free¨, ¨Games are not free¨. Companies and Devs create games to EARN money, thats how the MMO world Works and F2P games are the best way to do that, where the guy who spend more money will have more things and faster that you.
Yes games need to make money. The problem (in my opinion) is when a game sets up a cash shop where EVEN IF you are paying them a monthly fee (which I am), you are still at a major disadvantage compared to people burning cash in the cash shop.
It should be "Free to play with cash shop purchases" OR "Patron status"....it shouldn't be "Pay us 15 bucks a month, oh and spend more money in the cash shop in order to level up and gear up faster!". That is just being greedy.
Are People really suprised? After what they did to Defiance? With Dick Trempsy in charge? Bait and Switch is his motto!
These gamble boxes are just the beginning.
And now the sudden reduction on labor pot cooldowns from 12 to 4 hours! Are People still that utterly naive and still believe the Labor Point system is there to "protect" the economy?
Come on now. You really don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. The labor Point system is there as Cash Grab. Pure and Simple.
I am actually suprised people are already waking up now. Didn't expect it until after release. lol.
But hey. TRION couldn't care less. They already made a jitload of money on these $150 founder packs.
As far as im concerned this pack is tradeable within the game, so i don't exactly know how is that p2w.
I define p2w as the following: The shop provides items that can't be acquired by other means, besides real money.
At the other hand i don't know a lot of things about the game. But i know it very well, every soingle F2P mmo offers stuff in their shop that gives you advantage over the rest. The question is, if you can acquire it from someone for ingame cash.
And since someone mentioned DOTA2 as a game that sells only skins in the shop.
I play smite, i can get anything with the ingame currency that you can get from the shop for real money.
The difference is the time it takes to get where paying customers. Now how is that fair, someone has access to all the gods within the game cause he purchased all of them from the shop, and i must work to get them all.
It's not fair, life is not fair, and i accept that i have to work more to achieve the same if i don't want to invest.
And im prety sure it's similiar in DOTA.
All the qq i see about AA is basically this: omagawd the dude with thick wallet gets to max lvl faster and will have stuff faster than i do. And i don't want to spend real money, and i ignore the fact i can buy these with ingame currency as well.
Its like this, in every single mmo, everyone should have gotten used to it by now.
But i could have said, don't play it if you don't like it.
As a side note, no, im not planning to spend any real cash besides patron.
.....Are People really suprised? After what they did to Defiance? With Dick Trempsy in charge?
These gamble boxes are just the beginning.
And now the sudden reduction on labor pot cooldowns from 12 to 4 hours! Are People still that utterly naive and still believe the Labor Point system is there to "protect" the economy?
You do realize you can still get WAAAYYY more labor for you dollar merely by buying a 2nd subscription?
But don't let me get in the way of a good rant, it's therapeutic!
Come on now. You really don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. The labor Point system is there as Cash Grab. Pure and Simple.
I am actually suprised people are already waking up now. Didn't expect it until after release. lol.
But hey. TRION couldn't care less. They already made a jitload of money on these $100 founder packs.
I think that labor pots should still have 12 hr cooldowns, but Good lord people, just play the game and fork over some cash every once in awhile to support the game and you'll be fine...
I work and have a life outside of games, it is going to take me awhile to max my crafts. A long while. Maybe I want to buy some Labor Pots or subscribe for awhile to give me a boost and keep AA in business so that Free players can play 8-9 hours a day to be right where I am without spending a dime.
It is a game, not real life, if you are having fun, then that should be winning for you.
When I see the high ilevel items on the cash shop, then I will be worried. When I see that the money I have spent subscribing for a year is more useful being spent in the cash shop, then I will be worried. Some labor points and a chance at Archeum dust, no that is not P2W, those are boosts available in every Free to Play game ever released.
Cosmetics don't bring home the bacon. They do in MOBAs yes because there are no other outfits in the game. I mean you could make it so all the gear is horrid looking except the ones for real $$? would that be better? You could make classes only available for real $$. Is that better? no.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
As far as im concerned this pack is tradeable within the game, so i don't exactly know how is that p2w.
I define p2w as the following: The shop provides items that can't be acquired by other means, besides real money.
At the other hand i don't know a lot of things about the game. But i know it very well, every soingle F2P mmo offers stuff in their shop that gives you advantage over the rest. The question is, if you can acquire it from someone for ingame cash.
And since someone mentioned DOTA2 as a game that sells only skins in the shop.
I play smite, i can get anything with the ingame currency that you can get from the shop for real money.
The difference is the time it takes to get where paying customers. Now how is that fair, someone has access to all the gods within the game cause he purchased all of them from the shop, and i must work to get them all.
It's not fair, life is not fair, and i accept that i have to work more to achieve the same if i don't want to invest.
And im prety sure it's similiar in DOTA.
All the qq i see about AA is basically this: omagawd the dude with thick wallet gets to max lvl faster and will have stuff faster than i do. And i don't want to spend real money, and i ignore the fact i can buy these with ingame currency as well.
Its like this, in every single mmo, everyone should have gotten used to it by now.
But i could have said, don't play it if you don't like it.
As a side note, no, im not planning to spend any real cash besides patron.
Until i can earn it from ingame cash.
Wake up man! TRION has become a horrible Company in recent time. Especially when they let in Dick Trempsy! /facepalm
They pretty much pulled a bait and switch on everyone here.
Didn't they tell that the cash shop would be pure cosmetic?
Didn't they tell that the Labor Point system was to protect the economy?
How is suddenly changing the cooldown on Labor Pots in the store from 12 hours to 4 hours going to help the economy huh?
Someone with a big fat wallet can now rake in 6000 LP per day, compared to 2000ish LP via offline regen with Patron status.
They said F2P cannot own land, because they cannot pay taxes. This was another benefit of Patron status.
Now they suddenly put Tax certs in the cash shop.
And lo and behold..... these stupid evil lootboxes have finally arrived! With chance to contain ultra rare materials.
Bait and switch! Pure and simple. Keep telling People A.... rake in tons of cash via $150 founder packs, then do B and laugh down your customers. /facepalm
Well Dota 2 is quite strictly competitive natured, arena style game. There it is important, and even beneficial to Valve, to keep people on even ground. Direct comparison doesn't work here, in my opinion.
Just hoping they don't mess this game up with silly items on market. The annying thing is with these F2P games that all it takes is single small update once in game's life to mess it up completely, and players who invest their time and money into the game have no chance of predicting such.
I and many others never said this wasn't a good business decision. In fact, history has shown that this is likely a VERY GOOD business decision.
Still bad for the integrity of the game and still a really jerk move when the game is already subscription-based (in practice)
But hey, you only need to hook one whale and that'll make up for like, a thousand+ subscribers or more, so from a business sense, it makes perfect sense to say "Screw those guys. Maybe they'll keep playing despite being second class citizens anyways which is more money for me! Or maybe they won't and they'll just leave but if that happens, it's fine because I gots me a whale!"
Oh yes, and there WILL be whales. My own experience with F2P games has shown me that there WILL be crazy guys who will spend THOUSANDS on these boxes and any other remotely pay to win features (EVERY F2P I've seen has them. Even the bad F2P's!), and likely "win" (for some given definition of winning) because of it over guys who tried to earn that through play time alone. And Trion's bottom line will be all the happier for it.
I think that labor pots should still have 12 hr cooldowns, but Good lord people, just play the game and fork over some cash every once in awhile to support the game and you'll be fine...
I work and have a life outside of games, it is going to take me awhile to max my crafts. A long while. Maybe I want to buy some Labor Pots or subscribe for awhile to give me a boost and keep AA in business so that Free players can play 8-9 hours a day to be right where I am without spending a dime.
It is a game, not real life, if you are having fun, then that should be winning for you.
It's about principles and ethics! Something that went straight out of the door at TRION when Dick Trempsy came in!
I can't do business with a company I cannot trust. I cannot trust TRION. They lost it with Defiance. And what they doing now with Archeage just confirms it even more. In what company they have become.
How such a deeply respected and highly regarded company could fall so low. Very dissapointing.
You expect these kind of practices with your run of the mill eastern F2P Companies putting out new trash every 6 months. Not from a company like TRION. Such a shame.
Well Dota 2 is quite strictly competitive natured, arena style game. There it is important, and even beneficial to Valve, to keep people on even ground. Direct comparison doesn't work here, in my opinion.
Just hoping they don't mess this game up with silly items on market. The annying thing is with these F2P games that all it takes is single small update once in game's life to mess it up completely, and players who invest their time and money into the game have no chance of predicting such.
I dislike comparisons to MOBAs where the only semblance of individuality you have is what suit the character you decided to play today is wearing. players would be pissed if the only good outfits available in AA were available for real $$.
You can also buy heroes in MOBAs. But if AA restricted certain trees to people who payed real $$, people would be pissed. If a game isn't completely free and not-for-profit, then players will be pissed.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Comments
Yep, that's the main issue. Archeage isn't actually F2P. Well, you can TRY playing it F2P but good luck with that. You really have to subscribe to get anywhere.
Part of the reason lots of people are so pissed about this is because you have to subscribe AND there's some P2Win aspects in the cash shop on top of that.
Keep in mind I absolutely hate f2p, but I'll never understand why people think profiting from f2p is impressive or impacting the future of the industry. For example, swtor is viewed by many to be a hit because of the money they've made from their cash shop after the massive p2p flop, but fail to understand that the cash shop consumer base is based entirely around hungry individuals that will throw their money at the screen for additional enjoyment. Those are the people that they are trying to target with stuff like this. However, this is not the future of MMORPG. The whole reason they have to target the cash shop spenders is because they're not enough people that would be loyal to the sub model for these games.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
I have concluded that as a casual subscription player you will benefit from cash shop. I work and my best times in gaming were had in fairly deep mmo systems similar to what ArcheAge seems to be.
What all this means to me is...I get plenty of labor points for my 90 minute to 3 hour sessions. If I have several days off and want to spend a day on crafting I can always purchase labor point potions to allow me an extra long session. If I can't play for a week and feel I have fallen behind RL friends or guildmates I can buy labor point potions and gain some ground again.
I don't really think any subscribers would pay the kind of money to keep labor points on tilt for months...there is just no economic sense there.
That being said there may be a few e-peen types that really are obsessed and go overboard the first month.
So what......
It's not going to effect me. I will do my own thing and have fun with the subscription model and may grab something once in a while from the shop if it is beneficial and priced right.
My day is getting better and better.
Keep up the the good work Human nature !
It's getting worse by the month.
Woah there! There is no place here for that kind of logic Karble =P I agree play the game that makes you happy.
I don't know enough about this title to make a fair judgement. Can someone please explain to me how these changes will impact the game in a way that will make it Pay to Win? I'm genuinely curious as I've been interested in the title but holding off on getting too much info to avoid pre-launch hype/burnout.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer.
Steam: Neph
Here is what Community Manager also stated (Scapes)
"For more details, here's the Archeum Supply Crate tooltip: "Includes a variety of consumables, components, and regrade items, with a bonus chance of archeum. Rumor has it the legendary pack-donkey, Carrot Dash, can occasionally be found within!""
To be perfectly honest, I'm not seeing much P2W at all. They have the one item that has a chance at dropping a rare crafting material. It's still something that can be obtained in game, even with a low drop rate. So it's more of a P2PotentiallyShortcutSomeGrinding.
Even if you made all of the best gear first, your advantage would fade with time as more and more people obtained the best gear as well.
It's a grindy game. This has been known since launch in Korea. Trion seems to have very little creative control over most of the game features. So, nothing should really be surprising at this point.
This was also part of the patch today as well:
* The drop rate of Sunlight Archeum has been increased, and we will be evaluating the levels of Sunlight, Moonlight, and Starlight Archeum for further drop rate adjustments.
Are People really suprised? After what they did to Defiance? With Dick Trempsy in charge? Bait and Switch is his motto!
These gamble boxes are just the beginning.
And now the sudden reduction on labor pot cooldowns from 12 to 4 hours! Are People still that utterly naive and still believe the Labor Point system is there to "protect" the economy?
Come on now. You really don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. The labor Point system is there as Cash Grab. Pure and Simple.
I am actually suprised people are already waking up now. Didn't expect it until after release. lol.
But hey. TRION couldn't care less. They already made a jitload of money on these $150 founder packs.
As far as im concerned this pack is tradeable within the game, so i don't exactly know how is that p2w.
I define p2w as the following: The shop provides items that can't be acquired by other means, besides real money.
At the other hand i don't know a lot of things about the game. But i know it very well, every soingle F2P mmo offers stuff in their shop that gives you advantage over the rest. The question is, if you can acquire it from someone for ingame cash.
And since someone mentioned DOTA2 as a game that sells only skins in the shop.
I play smite, i can get anything with the ingame currency that you can get from the shop for real money.
The difference is the time it takes to get where paying customers. Now how is that fair, someone has access to all the gods within the game cause he purchased all of them from the shop, and i must work to get them all.
It's not fair, life is not fair, and i accept that i have to work more to achieve the same if i don't want to invest.
And im prety sure it's similiar in DOTA.
All the qq i see about AA is basically this: omagawd the dude with thick wallet gets to max lvl faster and will have stuff faster than i do. And i don't want to spend real money, and i ignore the fact i can buy these with ingame currency as well.
Its like this, in every single mmo, everyone should have gotten used to it by now.
But i could have said, don't play it if you don't like it.
As a side note, no, im not planning to spend any real cash besides patron.
Until i can earn it from ingame cash.
You do realize you can still get WAAAYYY more labor for you dollar merely by buying a 2nd subscription?
But don't let me get in the way of a good rant, it's therapeutic!
I think that labor pots should still have 12 hr cooldowns, but Good lord people, just play the game and fork over some cash every once in awhile to support the game and you'll be fine...
I work and have a life outside of games, it is going to take me awhile to max my crafts. A long while. Maybe I want to buy some Labor Pots or subscribe for awhile to give me a boost and keep AA in business so that Free players can play 8-9 hours a day to be right where I am without spending a dime.
It is a game, not real life, if you are having fun, then that should be winning for you.
When I see the high ilevel items on the cash shop, then I will be worried. When I see that the money I have spent subscribing for a year is more useful being spent in the cash shop, then I will be worried. Some labor points and a chance at Archeum dust, no that is not P2W, those are boosts available in every Free to Play game ever released.
Cosmetics don't bring home the bacon. They do in MOBAs yes because there are no other outfits in the game. I mean you could make it so all the gear is horrid looking except the ones for real $$? would that be better? You could make classes only available for real $$. Is that better? no.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Wake up man! TRION has become a horrible Company in recent time. Especially when they let in Dick Trempsy! /facepalm
They pretty much pulled a bait and switch on everyone here.
Didn't they tell that the cash shop would be pure cosmetic?
Didn't they tell that the Labor Point system was to protect the economy?
How is suddenly changing the cooldown on Labor Pots in the store from 12 hours to 4 hours going to help the economy huh?
Someone with a big fat wallet can now rake in 6000 LP per day, compared to 2000ish LP via offline regen with Patron status.
They said F2P cannot own land, because they cannot pay taxes. This was another benefit of Patron status.
Now they suddenly put Tax certs in the cash shop.
And lo and behold..... these stupid evil lootboxes have finally arrived! With chance to contain ultra rare materials.
Bait and switch! Pure and simple. Keep telling People A.... rake in tons of cash via $150 founder packs, then do B and laugh down your customers. /facepalm
Well Dota 2 is quite strictly competitive natured, arena style game. There it is important, and even beneficial to Valve, to keep people on even ground. Direct comparison doesn't work here, in my opinion.
Just hoping they don't mess this game up with silly items on market. The annying thing is with these F2P games that all it takes is single small update once in game's life to mess it up completely, and players who invest their time and money into the game have no chance of predicting such.
I and many others never said this wasn't a good business decision. In fact, history has shown that this is likely a VERY GOOD business decision.
Still bad for the integrity of the game and still a really jerk move when the game is already subscription-based (in practice)
But hey, you only need to hook one whale and that'll make up for like, a thousand+ subscribers or more, so from a business sense, it makes perfect sense to say "Screw those guys. Maybe they'll keep playing despite being second class citizens anyways which is more money for me! Or maybe they won't and they'll just leave but if that happens, it's fine because I gots me a whale!"
Oh yes, and there WILL be whales. My own experience with F2P games has shown me that there WILL be crazy guys who will spend THOUSANDS on these boxes and any other remotely pay to win features (EVERY F2P I've seen has them. Even the bad F2P's!), and likely "win" (for some given definition of winning) because of it over guys who tried to earn that through play time alone. And Trion's bottom line will be all the happier for it.
It's about principles and ethics! Something that went straight out of the door at TRION when Dick Trempsy came in!
I can't do business with a company I cannot trust. I cannot trust TRION. They lost it with Defiance. And what they doing now with Archeage just confirms it even more. In what company they have become.
How such a deeply respected and highly regarded company could fall so low. Very dissapointing.
You expect these kind of practices with your run of the mill eastern F2P Companies putting out new trash every 6 months. Not from a company like TRION. Such a shame.
I dislike comparisons to MOBAs where the only semblance of individuality you have is what suit the character you decided to play today is wearing. players would be pissed if the only good outfits available in AA were available for real $$.
You can also buy heroes in MOBAs. But if AA restricted certain trees to people who payed real $$, people would be pissed. If a game isn't completely free and not-for-profit, then players will be pissed.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile