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Are High Fantasy MMO's far more desirable than Sci-Fi ?
Bukkerz
Member UncommonPosts: 177
It does seem that any MMO that relies upon Science Fiction as its backbone is failing at present. Why? … well I think it is because everybody or rather the majority find the notion of having a breathing avatar existing in a world ruled by the wielding of metal and the practice of dark magic more wantingly tangible with its heroic and 'romantic' ideology than living in a world of rockets and high-tech machinery, residing in lesser considered environments and often inhabited by the most unfeasible of creatures or landscapes.
I think weapons brimming with the harnessed power of scientific invention and manmade discovery are possibly less attractive than say a manmade sword imbued with powers of witchcraft or sorcery.
Blizzards latest announcement cancelling Titan echoes this along with the huge slap in the face that Wildstar is seemingly subject to. I really liked the premise of this game and in many ways its promise is fantastic … if only the story and darkness of the Elder could start happening quicker then we could be plunged into a world of the satirical satanic where the dark humour and horror of the suggested story could really become captivating. I still think Wildstar will get this second wave but only when it becomes more ‘earthy’and sinister.
Warcraft going back to its roots with Warlords of Dreanor is all about the clashing of metal and the summoning of learned sorcery and with such has allowed for a far more poetic and dramatic storyline . Which like it or not will certainly succeed in getting folks back into the game. .Pandas are cuddly and humorous … and as such have become realized as a ‘S... not no good... decision’.
I realize EVE is popular.. but you have to love the notion of endless space and spaceships for it to engulf you, along with the pursuit of complex trade and political agreements. It is a proven and solid choice if such things are your bag. But if a breathing avatar is what your after ... nope.
Being more basic I hate worlds of intangibility … I reckon that Destiny will ultimately fall short once the flash and bang has become normality. Without a sense of a well written history or residence why would any MMO player want to ‘live’ there.
And ‘live’ is the point….or alternative living. Load up screens or an online world populated or invested by the invented organically intangible, or tentacled stupid’s just make your eyes roll.
Religion is still feasible ... so lets go to hell and back, along with warmongery and the fear of an impending mace were all quids in...
Comments
Well, let me put it like this: even with today's technology, if you can see it, you can kill it. I'd like to see a Star Wars parody along the lines of the famous Indianan Jones scene - one character juggles his light sabre threateningly and the other shoots him dead. With a revolver.
Hack and slash with swords and spears is just more suited to gaming than hi-tech sci-fi.
Even then, I have yet to see ANY CRPG that has a remotely realistic combat system, but that's another story.
For me, yes. High Fantasy, Low Fantasy, and In-Between Fantasy are my personal preferences.
I do enjoy a good Sci-Fi setting, though. It just has many more variables than fantasy, so needs sub-classifications, in my opinion. I like Space Exploration but not Zombie Apocalypse.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
There is no need for sci-fi stories to take place in a wasteland like Wall-E or in a sterile looking environment. It can be full of live and nature and personal contact.
Take Star Wars. Instead of a regular spear, they had so called "electropoles". So what, thats just a lighting enchantment. They still used shields you had to wear on one arm that had a clear shape, instead of a shield projected by a generator. They did use the later for projecting the army as a whole, but they still had a clear source. Like a wizard casting a shield sphere.
They even used horns and animals to ride into battle etc.
Or take two Jedi (or Sith) fighting in the forest of Endor or in the swamps of Dagobah.
Heck, Jedi Kights *are* magicians for all intents and purposes. Casting lighting, telekinesis, both clairvoyance as well as noticing events that take place far away the moment they do happen, fighting with a magical sword. While it does require some complex mechanics, the power source is utlimately still the force. And even while crafting it, the force is required.
So, the problem is not sci-fi per se, but that many sci-fi games actively seek to distinquish themselves from fantasy.
Simplified, it's like Star Wars vs Star Trek. Star Wars is often up close and personal, everything is dirty and mostly functional. The main characters have lots of different backgrounds and act and dress accordingly. Star Trek uses a lot of long range fights, wether it's in space or on ground. The Enterprise is incredibly clean, the main characters mostly have the same (major) background of going through Starfleet Academy etc. and all wear uniform.
Describing Star Wars as being about surviving doesn't really do it, but compared to Star Trek, where they first discuss for two episodes whether they should actually engage, Star Wars is dark and gritty.
They just have to translate that to video games, and it would be fantasy in space.
There are also quite a lot of different stories that actually use "fantasy in space" or cross the border, depends on how you see it. Long time ago (probably 15-20 years or so) i read a series of books that was your typical fantasy saga. Knights, mages, dragons etc. One day, they ended up in space, fighting with the alien pope from outer space against said dragons (or something like that). And it worked!
Given that a lot of time passed, and it was just a small sample of all existing stories, there should now be millions of stories that cross the border, but they all get ignored to serve as the the same old.
And don't forget the Spelljammer setting. AD&D is the epitomy of high fantasy, and yet, there is a setting that lets us explore space.
It's only matter of human imagination/creativity, not a limitation of the genre or anything.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
I love scifi, it's just that no one's done it right in my opinion. I try all the scifi ones that come out with hope. I miss Earth and Beyond, and even though the emulator is up and running, I just want better graphics. I find EvE boring, and I don't like FFA PVP at all, but the graphics are amazing. Star Trek Online had the space combat, but the away missions are horrible. SWtoR didn't have the space at launch, which I found odd, and now that it does have it I had to try it out. SWtoR space missions might be on rails, but they're fun. But there's a small number of them. And still no free open movement space though. Maybe Star Citizen will be good. I still have ALL the Wing Commander titles. I loved those. I could list more, but that's enough for now.
I keep hoping with each one that it'll be done just right.... still hasn't happened yet. I still hold on to hope that one day a good scifi mmorpg will come.
I will play any game if it is fun.
As far as these genres go, after Star Wars my love is fantasy. Always has been.
That does not mean I won't play a good sci-fi game. It just seems to me, there are not too many good sci-fi games about. I can't stand EVE, it would be awesome though, if someone could take the entire mechanics and ideas and such from that game and slap them inside a fantasy game.
This post isn't making too much sense, my mind is too preoccupied by my water boiling for my penne pasta!
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Majority of the most popular games in the industry are sci-fi or modern/near future, heck even the most popular final fantasy is sci-fi (Final Fantasy 7). MMOS are mainly fantasy most of the time is because its easier to make a game world based around magic and fantasy, even when the devs attempt to make a sci-fi mmo it still feels, looks and play like a fantasy mmo, Wildstar for example. Sci-fi fans go in expecting sci-fi stuff and ends up getting disappointed with all this fantasy stuff and stuck on one planet or it has multiple planets like swtor but ends up being small zones in each planet.
Personally my ideal mmo would be sci-fi, if mmo devs can ever get it right. Destiny got it right in combat gameplay and aesthetics but not when it comes to exploration because zones arent big enough.
So the popularity for sci-fi is there in the game industry clearly, its just that mmo developers need to step up there game in making a proper sci-fi mmo game.
lastly dont make me TAB Target auto attack with Guns. I want to freaking aim and shoot. I just want Mass Effect combat in an mmo.
If there is a Sci-Fi mmoRPG (note the stress is on RPG) that's like a combination of Firefly and Battlestar Galactica (the Canadian re-make, not the original series) and I'd give it a go.
Otherwise, I'll stick to high fantasy.
My computer beats me in Strip Poker, but doesn't stand a chance against my Kick Boxing! >: D 3
Yep, same here. I enjoy both, but I do believe the vast majority prefers Fantasy.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I hear you Margrave, I like Eve Online for its realism, but, I find it a little too complex, slow and tedious. I wish they would have some landing on planet missions, something like Star Trek online. I think it would take away the vision ccp has planed for the game with landing missions, although, I found Dust 514, didn't seem to fit. I always thought Star Wars was more a si-fi fantasy anyways and Star Trek more of a hard si-fi. Devs may have to find ways to cross-over games to appeal to more people to play si-fi mmo,s. The potential is there. Here's hoping.
Pretty much. Star Wars has mysticism/magic through "the Force". Whether it's flashy force lightning, or downright Sith alchemy.
One of the big themes of Star Wars also resolves around prophecies, visions and such - whereas Star Trek is more about technological advances and mankind's future among the stars.
Edit: And sword fights! Another classic fantasy theme that Star Wars has much more of than Star Trek.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
For me "yes".
I lose interest in supposed "sci fi" titles with the exception of 4X titles like Masters of Orion or Galactic Civilizations.
Possibly because "being in the future doesn't equal sci fi".
There is a raw brutality and mysticism to "fantasy" and that appeals to me.
Then again who knows, some day there might be a sci fi mmo that captivates me.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Pretty much spot on.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Perhaps oddly, fantasy tends to be more familiar than science fiction.
I think there are two main issues -- one is worlds; worlds tend to be poorly realized; oft one-dimensional, that is all desert, all mountaineous, all swamp, etc.
Space is boring, at least as implemented.
Races tend to get very odd or very robotic -- bad. There is not 1000 of years of myth to fuel our familiarity. This is an issue.
Also I've noted that science fiction classes are just not interesting. Maybe it's the same issue as the races; maybes it's lack of diversity that makes sense. It tends to be very limited, skill based, or meh. Too little flavor.
That's the word -- record it.
I think it is not because of like/dislike.
It is more because of likelihood that sci-fi are a lot harder to create and balance. Space and planets are a lot more expansive than a continent and a lot harder to get it right, and with sci-fi (technology setting) there are simply too much stuff that you have to put in, because of the fact that it is a future setting.
Otherwise it is no different from a fantasy game and people with go "why do we still have to go to mailbox??? It is the future man!!" or "why do we have to drive??? It is the future we should be flying everywhere!!", a problem that currently both SWTOR and Wildstar has.
^Agreed
I would play any sci-fi MMO if it could pull me in like the fantasy ones do. Star Trek would be the only exception. But it still left me goin "hmmm..."
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
While I really have no preference, I'm tired of fantasy. For once, I'd like a worthwhile Sci-Fi or Modern game, and preferably something that isn't a knock-off of the "other" game. You can only play a themepark game with the same customization for your character so many times before you get disgusted and end up playing a MOBA.
And yes, I prefer Sandbox, but I have to make do if I'm going to get my MMO fix.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
This is true of RPGs in general. I like the idea of a scifi MMO but it's hard to make one that is as compelling as fantasy. EVE is the closest to translating what I like in scifi into an MMO (and I never played SWG but it seemed like a good attempt especially for an IP which I generally don't care about) but like you said a game like that will always have niche appeal.
Science fiction just doesn't give you the opportunity to be the badass hero that high fantasy does. Sure you can fly around and be a smuggler or a space ace or something but if it's any kind of realistic setting there is probably complex high level politics governing any spacefaring civilization and that means that one dude or a dude and his friends is probably not going to be able to effect the universe that much on their own.
I personally don't want to always be the prototypical hero in games but I think people who do always want that are going to prefer fantasy to scifi games.
OP,
I REALLY like your post. You've ask a question that has haunted me for quite some time. I appreciate the fantasy games and I find comfort in the familiarity. That said, "I LIKES ME SOME GOOD SCIFI".
I think it comes down to that too; familiarity. We see so many fantasy games because they are comfortable and familiar. You can almost bet that any fantasy game will have a Human, Elf, Orc, and weee-person type race. They will ALL yield some type of metal instrument, and attack with teeth bared, jumping, thrashing, and yelling.
Science fiction has MUCH more room for variation. Sometimes you'll hit on an alien race that fits the familiar pattern, and sometimes you'll miss the mark with too much variation. The end product will likely not have as universal appeal as a fantasy product.
Great post, thanks for the topic.
I don't think it's because Sci-Fi is less desirable. I think it's more that Sci-Fi is much harder for developers to pull off in a fun and "believable" way.
People expect a certain level of realism when they think of Sci-Fi usually(minus Star Wars). Sci-Fi generally centers around space, and any time you center your setting around space, there is going to be an inherent boredom factor, because space is boring, in reality.
So, not only do you have to have a certain level of scientific realism, but more often than not, Sci-Fi becomes linked with shooter type games for the combat. I think the majority of MMO players aren't looking for real-time, shooter type combat or space sims. This is where Fantasy becomes more appealing, not because of the setting, but because of the gameplay types.
You can see threads all the time where people are bickering over action combat vs. traditional turn-based tab-targetting, etc.
Just a few reasons why I think it's less about genre/setting, and more about development concepts. So, generally, you either have FPS or Action real-time combat, or you end up with a setting like Star Wars which barely even qualifies as Sci-Fi but is more high fantasy.
Spin-off question:
How do you make space flight and such more appealing? I think a solid team could easily make a great Sci-Fi game without touching space flight and such at all, but I think space flight and owning a spaceship are almost an expectation with anything called "Sci-Fi".
Huh? Star Wars is pretty much fantasy with lightsabers instead of swords and "the force" instead of magic. That's probably one reason it was so popular. Not all sci-fi is like that though. A lot of it is actually based on science and speculating about the future like how will society develop. I like fantasy a lot but sci-fi (other than stuff like Star Wars) seems like a much more sophisticated and adult genre. There are some fantasy stories that go in depth to complex issues within a medieval society and such but they are rarer than similar in sci-fi . Unfortunately most entertainment products now are marketed towards people who are about 13 so the proliferation of generic high fantasy swords and sorcery stuff.
This pretty much nailed it.
I hate to keep saying this but there's nothing romantic about a blaster.
Swords or magic on the other hand elicit a sense of wonder and bring conflict to a much more personal level.