Originally posted by Fusion When you sell your soul to big corporation, expect this to happen, always.
And how do you suggest Carbine would fund their project ? AAA mmo's are quite expensive to make, mind you. Besides, ALL major design choices, many of them are reasons for the game's failure, where made by the developer not NCSoft.
Use an existing engine and cut the development time from 9 years to the 2 years that this game deserved. There we go, I saved them millions.
Originally posted by Doogiehowser Just turn WS into F2P / P2P hybrid model already and save yourself and your players heartache Ncsoft.
Its already been clearly stated that WS is not going fail2play so don't worry.
You can always go back to other fail2play games like AA lol
And neither were the many other games that claimed "never f2p". Don't believe the PR spin from these MMO companies.
Well ESO is hanging on and being stubborn about it so why can't WS do the same? In the end I think WS will crack first, but then Carbine will start turning a profit after they do. Case in point DDO, LOTRO (they did at first but they would have choked sooner if they stayed as a sub game), SWTOR, Rift. Meanwhile ESO will keep dragging on hoping each update will turn things around I guess.
[mod edit] There is a huge difference in ESO and Wildstar and that is IP. ESO is doing alright by the way, but even if it wasn't it would still draw people just based on the IP; just like SWTOR did/does. Games like Rift and Wildstar have no real IP and thus have to change or offer something exceptional (like Rift did with its constant content updates when it was P2P) in order to keep people around. Wildstar on the other hand offers nothing tangible to it's playable.
It will need to make some serious changes or it will be gone.
If you have seen the new content that ESO is bring and don't think it looks awesome then your no Elder Scrolls fan. I don't even play ESO but I think the new systems they are bringing look great and will be awesome for those that enjoy the game. They also make it more Elder Scrolly and will bring in more people. [mod edit]
If the publisher and developer were Carbine I would have agreed with you, but considering that the publisher is NCSOFT.... I can't agree no matter how "positive" I may want to be simply due to NCSOFT's track record with western products and how they have handled them in the past decade especially those that performed poorly (in their eyes).
I'm not sure how giving it more time will help Carbine out at this point.
Actually, i believe that exactly because NCSoft is in charge WildStar has a chance. Watching some Carbine dev streams it seems that many of them are in denial and fail to grasp the state of their game. NCSoft invested big cash in WS and there is no way they're just going to pull the plug. They have the means to turn things around.
I hope so. I've never seen NCSOFT go the "extra mile" with previous struggling western titles, but we'll just have to see. I do agree that Carbine was partially in denial (especially for being in a project that lasted 9 years). I'm definitely curious to see how things pan out for the rest of the year.
Carbine should have sold themselves to Blizzard instead of NCfail. Now WildFail probably won't even make it to the end of this year without shutting down.
Originally posted by sonicwhip2 Carbine should have sold themselves to Blizzard instead of NCfail. Now WildFail probably won't even make it to the end of this year without shutting down.
Why would Blizzard want to buy them in the first place? Blizzard already has WoW. No need for a second WoW-ish game that had ex-WoW developers working on it.
Originally posted by sonicwhip2 Carbine should have sold themselves to Blizzard instead of NCfail.
Why would Blizzard want to buy them in the first place? Blizzard already has WoW.
Exactly. Carbine selling themselves is the easy part, the tough part is who would've picked them up besides NCSOFT? Carbine probably had two choices at that point, shutting down the project and never releasing the game (make $0.00) or go with NCSOFT (and make > $0.01). Going with NCOSFT was probably not the best candidate, but who else would have stepped up and picked up Carbine (realistically speaking)?
Originally posted by sonicwhip2 Carbine should have sold themselves to Blizzard instead of NCfail. Now WildFail probably won't even make it to the end of this year without shutting down.
Why would Blizzard want to buy them in the first place? Blizzard already has WoW. No need for a second WoW-ish game that had ex-WoW developers working on it.
If Blizzard bought them, they would have simply killed it the same way they killed Titan. There is no need for another WoW clone and Blizz know it.
It does not surprise us, we all knew this was coming up, give the poor game that Wildstar is.
Expect Free-To-Play transition in 2-4 months.
Careful MMORPG gave me a naughty naughty for saying "f2p within a year" after their incessant Wildstar hype.
Two things..
1. I bet the phrase 'f2p within a year' isn't the phrase which gave you a warning....I'm guessing there were more than just those 4 words, and they are the culprit. I could be wrong, but a pretty good guess.
2. Being proud of the prediction, 'f2p within the year' in this mmo climate is like being proud that you predict it will be hot on a sunny summer afternoon in Phoenix. I don't care what game it is. It would be hard to name an mmo which has released with a sub model since WoW which is not free to play. So congratulations on your ability to recognize a trend which has proven true for years among all mmo's, save for WoW. Guess what, the next AAA mmo that releases with a sub only model is going to go f2p too - and I don't even have to play it to figure that out.
Just sayin'.
Everyone is trying to blame the quality of the game on its current state instead of looking at the overall trends in this type of sub model in this market. At the same time, feeling so vindicated by this 'downturn' - somehow proving their negative opinion of the game is factually accurate .
Well, brilliant; you are all correct - I'm finally convinced that it is, in fact, impossible to see the forest through all those trees.
I think in this case re-structuring simply means that they have laid off staff - to reduce their cost base. Maybe they will change their business model but that's in the future. This strikes me as straightforward cost reduction - especially as the staff reductions go beyond Carbine.
As for f2p - maybe but it is no magic wand. SWTOR signed up fewer people in the 6 months after it went f2p (2M) than it sold "full price" boxes in the 6 months after it launched (2.4M) - despite having a big name IP. So how many f2p folk can WS look forward to? Not enough probably. Whether it stays with a sub or adds a f2p option if it is to have any chance of surviving the cost base - clearly - has to come down.
The problem with this kind of thinking, is that the cost base is also the value production base.
Fewer staff, less work gets done, less value is created, therefore less profit.
Cutting staff only makes sense if there is no clear way to make money from their labor.
Matt Mocarski (Art Director | Oct 14) Bitwise (Lead Client Engineer | Oct 23) Rob Hess (Dungeon and Raid designer | Oct 23) Ryan Moore (Senior World Artist | Oct 23)
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Use an existing engine and cut the development time from 9 years to the 2 years that this game deserved. There we go, I saved them millions.
[mod edit] There is a huge difference in ESO and Wildstar and that is IP. ESO is doing alright by the way, but even if it wasn't it would still draw people just based on the IP; just like SWTOR did/does. Games like Rift and Wildstar have no real IP and thus have to change or offer something exceptional (like Rift did with its constant content updates when it was P2P) in order to keep people around. Wildstar on the other hand offers nothing tangible to it's playable.
It will need to make some serious changes or it will be gone.
If you have seen the new content that ESO is bring and don't think it looks awesome then your no Elder Scrolls fan. I don't even play ESO but I think the new systems they are bringing look great and will be awesome for those that enjoy the game. They also make it more Elder Scrolly and will bring in more people. [mod edit]
I hope so. I've never seen NCSOFT go the "extra mile" with previous struggling western titles, but we'll just have to see. I do agree that Carbine was partially in denial (especially for being in a project that lasted 9 years). I'm definitely curious to see how things pan out for the rest of the year.
Why would Blizzard want to buy them in the first place? Blizzard already has WoW. No need for a second WoW-ish game that had ex-WoW developers working on it.
Exactly. Carbine selling themselves is the easy part, the tough part is who would've picked them up besides NCSOFT? Carbine probably had two choices at that point, shutting down the project and never releasing the game (make $0.00) or go with NCSOFT (and make > $0.01). Going with NCOSFT was probably not the best candidate, but who else would have stepped up and picked up Carbine (realistically speaking)?
If Blizzard bought them, they would have simply killed it the same way they killed Titan. There is no need for another WoW clone and Blizz know it.
The market is oversaturated by them.
If it was made by Blizzard and set in the Starcraft universe, I imagine it would have had a better chance than Wildstar.
Two things..
1. I bet the phrase 'f2p within a year' isn't the phrase which gave you a warning....I'm guessing there were more than just those 4 words, and they are the culprit. I could be wrong, but a pretty good guess.
2. Being proud of the prediction, 'f2p within the year' in this mmo climate is like being proud that you predict it will be hot on a sunny summer afternoon in Phoenix. I don't care what game it is. It would be hard to name an mmo which has released with a sub model since WoW which is not free to play. So congratulations on your ability to recognize a trend which has proven true for years among all mmo's, save for WoW. Guess what, the next AAA mmo that releases with a sub only model is going to go f2p too - and I don't even have to play it to figure that out.
Just sayin'.
Everyone is trying to blame the quality of the game on its current state instead of looking at the overall trends in this type of sub model in this market. At the same time, feeling so vindicated by this 'downturn' - somehow proving their negative opinion of the game is factually accurate .
Well, brilliant; you are all correct - I'm finally convinced that it is, in fact, impossible to see the forest through all those trees.
The problem with this kind of thinking, is that the cost base is also the value production base.
Fewer staff, less work gets done, less value is created, therefore less profit.
Cutting staff only makes sense if there is no clear way to make money from their labor.
Ever heard of "Mario Kart"?
:P
Sorry, could not help it.