Not sure why so many of the trolls coming in are claiming WoW wasnt a sandbox. Maybe every person here has a different definition of what a sandbox is?
It was 100% a sandbox when it first came out. Zone to Zone, the world was completely open with a few side dungeons. If you're one of those trolls, explain to me how it wasnt a sandbox ?
To make the easy comparison.
WoW has always been a theme park mmorpg, try comparing it to Star Wars Galaxies which was a sandbox mmorpg during its same time and you will see the difference between both mmorpg's to keep it nice and simple.
Ultima Online, Eve Online and even Asheron's Call are your classic sandbox mmorpg's.
WoW followed the same formula as Everquest and many other theme park mmo's which we have today.
I came back once, even though I said I never would. I enjoyed the game again for a good 3-4 months but then I had to quit.
It's just not the same game anymore that I played years ago. There was very little sense of discovery anymore, very little sense of achievement and most importantly, little sense of identity for me.
The latter was what really mattered the most to me in the game, and the new WoW sort of lost it. Even though everything was well crafted and a ton of fun was to be had, the content felt rather empty for the most part. Everyone was sort of going his own little way and little community sense was left. I spent most of the time in MoP WoW in dungeons alongside complete strangers.
It's still a good game in many ways, it's just not the one for me any longer.
That said, WoW was never a sandbox game OP.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Not sure why so many of the trolls coming in are claiming WoW wasnt a sandbox. Maybe every person here has a different definition of what a sandbox is?
It was 100% a sandbox when it first came out. Zone to Zone, the world was completely open with a few side dungeons. If you're one of those trolls, explain to me how it wasnt a sandbox ?
You are correct that there are many definitions of sandbox and people will never agree. However, most people agree that WoW was never a sandbox. It's not a matter of trolling (although I thought trolling was something different than the way you are using it), but merely acknowledging what the vast majority of people can agree on... not a sandbox.
Not sure why so many of the trolls coming in are claiming WoW wasnt a sandbox. Maybe every person here has a different definition of what a sandbox is?
It was 100% a sandbox when it first came out. Zone to Zone, the world was completely open with a few side dungeons. If you're one of those trolls, explain to me how it wasnt a sandbox ?
Oh, you cant explain I see...
There is/are hundreds of definitions for a sandbox, but being able to roam the world at will doesn't necessarily make it the main reason. Developers give players tools, and they use them to modify/change the world around them. WoW has never had that ability, and it is fairly static and the epitome of a themepark game.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Not sure why so many of the trolls coming in are claiming WoW wasnt a sandbox. Maybe every person here has a different definition of what a sandbox is?
It was 100% a sandbox when it first came out. Zone to Zone, the world was completely open with a few side dungeons. If you're one of those trolls, explain to me how it wasnt a sandbox ?
Oh, you cant explain I see...
There is/are hundreds of definitions for a sandbox, but being able to roam the world at will doesn't necessarily make it the main reason. Developers give players tools, and they use them to modify/change the world around them. WoW has never had that ability, and it is fairly static and the epitome of a themepark game.
OP, WoW was considered a themepark on release. It was considered a themepark because all of the content is linear and scripted. You level 1-10 in this zone then 11-20 in this zone and so on while completing scripted instances that are fed to you in linear fashion. Everyone knew this how could you not. For example in SWG content that was similar in style to WoW were called *gasp* themeparks like Jabba's Themepark mission line. If you are trolling us instead well i guess congratulations?
1: The game is 10 years old and have four major expansion and about 40-soon to be 50 level of content piled on the core game... Asking a returning customer to slog through that just in order to be able to play with their friends would be very poor biz-sense... But if you feel stepped on i respect your opinion. I just do not share it.
4: Yeah... They are still not selling anything game-changing. You still get access to EVERYTHING the game have to offer with your subscription and IIRC back when they said that microtransaction was pretty much the3 same as selling P2W items. Again i respect your opinion...
1.) Um... then just have characters boosted WITHOUT charging? I mean... thats a pretty poor excuse to really give in response. Its like if I were to rob you before you went into a casino to gamble it away. I mean "you were going to spend your money inside anyways and lose it, I just saved you time of having to slowly burn through it and got rid of it for you in one go." You can't make that excuse... its a very poor excuse for something that can be free if it was really a concern. Its pretty blatent they want more money from the player, you can't spin that any other way.
4.) Yeah... I'm going to say... please stop supporting blizzard hideous cash shop. You know full well people aren't going to support games charging $25 to change servers as a F2P Game, nevermind an actual P2P game. Those elements are game changing as 'minor' as you see them and the fact they are services that are charged for in a P2P game, and at horrendous amounts is really one area that disgusts me about blizzard and their greedy. I'm sorry you can enjoy your game all you want but you can't support such ugly practices of greed meant to nickle and dime PAYING SUBSCRIBERS for the game.
A cash shop is a cash shop, and when your offering stuff at prices games like neverwinter which are futlly F2P get yelled at for charging such stupidly high prices for, you know your getting a bit bias and blind to how terrible it is. Its completely anti-consumer how it is and its one area I think most of all I completely dislike blizzard for being greed with.
Not sure why so many of the trolls coming in are claiming WoW wasnt a sandbox. Maybe every person here has a different definition of what a sandbox is?
It was 100% a sandbox when it first came out. Zone to Zone, the world was completely open with a few side dungeons. If you're one of those trolls, explain to me how it wasnt a sandbox ?
You dear sir are actually trolling with your post.
Only because someone dont agree with your opinion doesnt mean they are troliing.
Maybe not a true sandbox, but for roleplayers or PvPers, WoW was a lot more open on its initial release. I and my friends did not play to reach level cap or to raid dungeons. We played to contest zones, to gank or be ganked. You could say we were missing the point of the game -- but I had more fun before level 60 than after.
To be perfectly honest, that has less to do with how the game is constructed and more with how people approached MMOs back then. Yes, vanilla was full of 'open world' activities (Hello never ending Tarren Mill mass pvp fests) but that was also because there wasn't that much to do outside of that. Once you've got your blue instance set from raiding strath/scholo and ubrs you either had to wait for the other 39 people to gather for MC/Nyxia or you just went around doing random stuff. Plus, a lot of players back then were relatively new to the genre, hell, 10 years ago MMO genre was pretty small compared to today, even WoW with it's massive hype building and big brand started with what ? 200k subs ? Today when you hear a new MMO having less than 1 mil in first month you call it a failure.
Do I miss the good old days? Sometimes, but i can't really blame the game itself for lack of the same sense of wonder, it will never really return with any MMo unless there would be some fundamental shift in the genre i can't even imagine.
An open world is a type of video gamelevel design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term free roam is also used, as is sandbox and free-roaming.[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4]
When you logged in to Vanilla WoW, could you roam freely? Check
Could you skip over content or level in different ways? Check
Was the world "open" to all levels and characters? Check
I guess I hit a nerve with the sandbox gestapo here, but vanilla WoW was always a sandbox game imho with instancing being only a feature, that is up until the newest stuff....
Not sure why so many of the trolls coming in are claiming WoW wasnt a sandbox. Maybe every person here has a different definition of what a sandbox is?
It was 100% a sandbox when it first came out. Zone to Zone, the world was completely open with a few side dungeons. If you're one of those trolls, explain to me how it wasnt a sandbox ?
You dear sir are actually trolling with your post.
Only because someone dont agree with your opinion doesnt mean they are troliing.
when people come in just spamming emotes or pictures, ya, it's just low grade trolling
A conversation why it wasnt this or that would be decent...
Not sure why so many of the trolls coming in are claiming WoW wasnt a sandbox. Maybe every person here has a different definition of what a sandbox is?
It was 100% a sandbox when it first came out. Zone to Zone, the world was completely open with a few side dungeons. If you're one of those trolls, explain to me how it wasnt a sandbox ?
You dear sir are actually trolling with your post.
Only because someone dont agree with your opinion doesnt mean they are troliing.
when people come in just spamming emotes or pictures, ya, it's just low grade trolling
A conversation why it wasnt this or that would be decent...
I do agree with you on that. If someone dont have so much to say, they could just keep quiet.
An open world is a type of video gamelevel design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term free roam is also used, as is sandbox and free-roaming.[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4]
When you logged in to Vanilla WoW, could you roam freely? Check
Could you skip over content or level in different ways? Check
Was the world "open" to all levels and characters? Check
I guess I hit a nerve with the sandbox gestapo here, but vanilla WoW was always a sandbox game imho with instancing being only a feature, that is up until the newest stuff....
You cut the definition off where you wanted to try and make your point. It continues after where you copy and pasted only that information.
[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. An "open world" game does not necessarily imply a true sandbox. In a true "sandbox", the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.[5] Generally open world games still enforce some restrictions in the game environment, either due to absolute technical limitations or in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity.
WoW has the half of the definition you pasted, but doesn't have the other half.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Not sure why so many of the trolls coming in are claiming WoW wasnt a sandbox. Maybe every person here has a different definition of what a sandbox is?
It was 100% a sandbox when it first came out. Zone to Zone, the world was completely open with a few side dungeons. If you're one of those trolls, explain to me how it wasnt a sandbox ?
You dear sir are actually trolling with your post.
Only because someone dont agree with your opinion doesnt mean they are troliing.
when people come in just spamming emotes or pictures, ya, it's just low grade trolling
A conversation why it wasnt this or that would be decent...
You declared everyone who disagrees with you a troll even before people posted any emotes or pictures. Your whole 'WOW was 100% sandbox ' statement is so absurd that sometimes there are no words to express it.
1. Level boosting by Blizzard. This can be attached to the recruit a friend system as well. I guess Blizzard doesnt seem to understand that when you level everyone up to level 90, you're basically stepping on everyone else who spent hours and hours leveling to 90 by actually fighting mobs, questing, etc.....They've basically devalued leveling or any progression in WoW. What's the point in leveling if everyone else is just going to be free boosted there? I might as well just wait til next expansion to even it up, or better yet not play at all...
2. Instances, instances, instances. When WoW first came out it was an excellent sandbox. Now it's just a game of instance hopping, instant travel. You can even group up cross server and escape any pvp, or even use it to grief.
3. CrossServer everything basically kills off your server drama, guilding, pvpiing, etc... Running over some random for honor points will never be as fun as getting to kill the annoying server brat.
4. Microtransactions from a company that said they would never do it.
5. No Crafting in any form that's interesting. I can play free games now with superior crafting.
So I cant say I'm surprised that the new expansion has been really lackluster and probably not even close to the numbers of previous expansions. I only just now saw they had a new expansion out.
Blizzard took an epic experience and tried to milk, milk, milk it by making it more shallow for every LCD to play. Now you have it here, a dying empire.
1. What you failed to realise is that new players want to play with other people, a task made harder if 90% of the population are doing new content. As someone who has played since vanilla i can honestly say i dont give a single crap for people who have boosted, their boosting does not interfere with me in the slightest, so why would it bother me?
2. It has never been a sandbox. What the hell you've been playing? They have streamlined a lot of stuff, mainly starting from TBC, seems to of worked considering the population growth. Sadly Cata and MOP just werent fun xpacs, MOP is a bit better now tho.
3. Not sure on your arguement here, Cross Server is beneficial, and yes some people are annoying. Not a fault in the tech but with the people.
4. Management has changed a few times, one mans direction not always the same as the next mans. They have a duty to make profit, more profit means happier share holders. Thankfully none of which they have sold has been P2W and its good on them to have a large enough medium to benefit some charities with it.
5. Yep, crafting has moved in leaps and bounds in other games and for some it's far superior. FF14 has a wonderful system, but then, I dont play WoW for crafting.
Few things -
Cata and MOP were lack luster, high promises for WOD. No its not dying nor a failing Empire, thats just you being wishful.
2. Instances, instances, instances. When WoW first came out it was an excellent sandbox. Now it's just a game of instance hopping, instant travel. You can even group up cross server and escape any pvp, or even use it to grief.
i thought i had played wow from vanilla straight through to the end of lich king... but i musta slept through its sandbox phase, because i sure as heck don't remember one.
and there were always instances... in fact i remember running my first instance before my lil troll had even reached level 20. And the big stuff to do at the end game were instanced. MC was your raid's version of MC. in eq1, for example, guilds actually had to compete in raids with other guilds for the bosses. there was one nagafen's lair and if some other guild was killing nagafen then oh well.
edit: whether or not something is a sandbox has nothing to do with whether or not it's open world. it has to do with the way the game does, or doesn't progress the player through the content. a sandbox game leaves the players to experience the games on their own terms and to generate their own content.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
An open world is a type of video gamelevel design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term free roam is also used, as is sandbox and free-roaming.[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4]
When you logged in to Vanilla WoW, could you roam freely? Check
Could you skip over content or level in different ways? Check
Was the world "open" to all levels and characters? Check
I guess I hit a nerve with the sandbox gestapo here, but vanilla WoW was always a sandbox game imho with instancing being only a feature, that is up until the newest stuff....
Open world DOES NOT equal sandbox. Sandbox does not equal open world. Open world is a feature, sandbox is a collection of features.
OP, WoW was considered a themepark on release. It was considered a themepark because all of the content is linear and scripted. You level 1-10 in this zone then 11-20 in this zone and so on while completing scripted instances that are fed to you in linear fashion. Everyone knew this how could you not. For example in SWG content that was similar in style to WoW were called *gasp* themeparks like Jabba's Themepark mission line. If you are trolling us instead well i guess congratulations?
1: The game is 10 years old and have four major expansion and about 40-soon to be 50 level of content piled on the core game... Asking a returning customer to slog through that just in order to be able to play with their friends would be very poor biz-sense... But if you feel stepped on i respect your opinion. I just do not share it.
4: Yeah... They are still not selling anything game-changing. You still get access to EVERYTHING the game have to offer with your subscription and IIRC back when they said that microtransaction was pretty much the3 same as selling P2W items. Again i respect your opinion...
1.) Um... then just have characters boosted WITHOUT charging? I mean... thats a pretty poor excuse to really give in response. Its like if I were to rob you before you went into a casino to gamble it away. I mean "you were going to spend your money inside anyways and lose it, I just saved you time of having to slowly burn through it and got rid of it for you in one go." You can't make that excuse... its a very poor excuse for something that can be free if it was really a concern. Its pretty blatent they want more money from the player, you can't spin that any other way.
4.) Yeah... I'm going to say... please stop supporting blizzard hideous cash shop. You know full well people aren't going to support games charging $25 to change servers as a F2P Game, nevermind an actual P2P game. Those elements are game changing as 'minor' as you see them and the fact they are services that are charged for in a P2P game, and at horrendous amounts is really one area that disgusts me about blizzard and their greedy. I'm sorry you can enjoy your game all you want but you can't support such ugly practices of greed meant to nickle and dime PAYING SUBSCRIBERS for the game.
A cash shop is a cash shop, and when your offering stuff at prices games like neverwinter which are futlly F2P get yelled at for charging such stupidly high prices for, you know your getting a bit bias and blind to how terrible it is. Its completely anti-consumer how it is and its one area I think most of all I completely dislike blizzard for being greed with.
1: They ARE giving a boost for free... It is included with the expansion... Free of charge... You pay for the expansion you get a boost. Yes they do charge for any beyond that, mostly because they are still a company... They end goal is to make money... Subscription or not. But that was not really what the original post was talking... It was talking about the devaluation of the journey.... Something a great deal of people do not give a rats arse about.
4: Yeah... I actually can do that.... Blizzard have invested A LOT in to making sure that you can play with both your friends and still be in a populated area without having to transfer from your server and leaving those of your friedns who do not want to transfer behind... Such things as cross-realm ques and zones... That is in the long run more important than you being able to hop around to what ever server happens to have the best economy right now... So i actually can support them making sure that customer support costs does not come out of the development budget. Especially when what you pay for is external account services. I am neither blind nor particularly biased... But unlike you i am a realist. Also, charging 25$ for your to go to the current FotM server is not beyond the reach of reasonable... Especially as it is designed both to cover the actual cost of the transfer as well as being a deterrent for people to use said service irresponsible (such as i outlined a bit up)
In short... I get it that you do not like the cost.. but that does not make it wrong.. or immoral.... Neither is it a re-neg of the statement Blizzard did about "microtransactions"... But if you have a qoute stating otherwise i would be glad to see it.
An open world is a type of video gamelevel design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term free roam is also used, as is sandbox and free-roaming.[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4]
When you logged in to Vanilla WoW, could you roam freely? Check
Could you skip over content or level in different ways? Check
Was the world "open" to all levels and characters? Check
I guess I hit a nerve with the sandbox gestapo here, but vanilla WoW was always a sandbox game imho with instancing being only a feature, that is up until the newest stuff....
You cut the definition off where you wanted to try and make your point. It continues after where you copy and pasted only that information.
[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. An "open world" game does not necessarily imply a true sandbox. In a true "sandbox", the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.[5] Generally open world games still enforce some restrictions in the game environment, either due to absolute technical limitations or in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity.
WoW has the half of the definition you pasted, but doesn't have the other half.
Nice try OP but it won't fly here. You are trolling obviously by cherry picking the definition to suit your intent while cutting the rest. Caught red handed too.
An open world is a type of video gamelevel design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term free roam is also used, as is sandbox and free-roaming.[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4]
When you logged in to Vanilla WoW, could you roam freely? Check
Could you skip over content or level in different ways? Check
Was the world "open" to all levels and characters? Check
I guess I hit a nerve with the sandbox gestapo here, but vanilla WoW was always a sandbox game imho with instancing being only a feature, that is up until the newest stuff....
That's the definition of an open world, not a sandbox.
You can have an open world themepark and you you can have an open world sandbox.
I'll turn your argument around on you.
If WoW was 100% sandbox on release, how could that same design coin the term 'themepark'?
You have had your answer numerous times: it is was a linear game progression from start to finish. Each class had a linear progression - a paladin had a set path with a set skill set - a paladin could never learn the skills of a hunter, for example. Quests were linear. Progression was linear. Classes were linear. You could only choose a set number of crafting skills. There were not multiple options in any way shape or form. You followed their script from beginning to end. You didn't write your own story. Your story mirrored that of every player in the game and everyone who played your class in the game. You created a character and rode the rides blizzard created for you. You didn't create your own.
From that same wikipedia you quoted:
'An open world is a level or game designed as a nonlinear, vast open area with many ways to reach an objective'.
*Note the word nonlinear - which WoW has never ever been.
World of Warcraft, or WoW, a classic example of a game that is more true to the themepark MMO stereotype.
Everquest was more sandbox than WoW - and EQ has and always will be defined overall as a themepark.
You absolutely, positively have your definitions confused. WoW is and always has been the archetype of a themepark game.
These people aren't trolling you. You are simply wrong. Absolutely, positively wrong. Email Bill Murphy or anyone else on staff here at mmorpg, and ask them.
When absolutely every single person in your thread is telling you that you are wrong, perhaps you actually are wrong.
Or you could simply take it from an adult who has been playing mmo's since UO. WoW never has been anything close to a sandbox, ever. <--Period
Change your argument and say instead, WoW was more fun on release than it is now. If you did that you would find millions who agree.
1) did it bother yu tht dks didnt start theyr journey as a lvl 1 as well? and no it doesnt payed leveling has been availible before but thru outside sourses i dun think there will come many newbs for this but many old players might find it useful 2 instant lvl theyr alts to 90 2 get access to th new stuff
2) wow has always been instansed all dungeons n raids have always been that
3) so whats so horrible with cross server stuff? as some said i8t helps ppl frm low pop severs who dont wanna move to play
4) sure yu can buy mounts and pets and serrver moves/faction change but tht doesnt give yu an advantage in the game now does it? n bsides theres still opportunites fer pvp regardless
5) wow is old and has simplified crafting so evryone can do it :)and plz give us an example on "good" crafting qte events where yu have to click or press a button at the right moment perhaps?
well go play something else then op no1s forcing yu to play wow.
it doesnt help complaining in here those tht still plays wow will continue to do so
Comments
To make the easy comparison.
WoW has always been a theme park mmorpg, try comparing it to Star Wars Galaxies which was a sandbox mmorpg during its same time and you will see the difference between both mmorpg's to keep it nice and simple.
Ultima Online, Eve Online and even Asheron's Call are your classic sandbox mmorpg's.
WoW followed the same formula as Everquest and many other theme park mmo's which we have today.
I came back once, even though I said I never would. I enjoyed the game again for a good 3-4 months but then I had to quit.
It's just not the same game anymore that I played years ago. There was very little sense of discovery anymore, very little sense of achievement and most importantly, little sense of identity for me.
The latter was what really mattered the most to me in the game, and the new WoW sort of lost it. Even though everything was well crafted and a ton of fun was to be had, the content felt rather empty for the most part. Everyone was sort of going his own little way and little community sense was left. I spent most of the time in MoP WoW in dungeons alongside complete strangers.
It's still a good game in many ways, it's just not the one for me any longer.
That said, WoW was never a sandbox game OP.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
You are correct that there are many definitions of sandbox and people will never agree. However, most people agree that WoW was never a sandbox. It's not a matter of trolling (although I thought trolling was something different than the way you are using it), but merely acknowledging what the vast majority of people can agree on... not a sandbox.
I self identify as a monkey.
There is/are hundreds of definitions for a sandbox, but being able to roam the world at will doesn't necessarily make it the main reason. Developers give players tools, and they use them to modify/change the world around them. WoW has never had that ability, and it is fairly static and the epitome of a themepark game.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
OP, WoW was considered a themepark on release. It was considered a themepark because all of the content is linear and scripted. You level 1-10 in this zone then 11-20 in this zone and so on while completing scripted instances that are fed to you in linear fashion. Everyone knew this how could you not. For example in SWG content that was similar in style to WoW were called *gasp* themeparks like Jabba's Themepark mission line. If you are trolling us instead well i guess congratulations?
I'm not a fan of WoW, but I stopped reading after this comment. OP clearly has no concept of sandbox, and thus his entire critique is suspect.
1.) Um... then just have characters boosted WITHOUT charging? I mean... thats a pretty poor excuse to really give in response. Its like if I were to rob you before you went into a casino to gamble it away. I mean "you were going to spend your money inside anyways and lose it, I just saved you time of having to slowly burn through it and got rid of it for you in one go." You can't make that excuse... its a very poor excuse for something that can be free if it was really a concern. Its pretty blatent they want more money from the player, you can't spin that any other way.
4.) Yeah... I'm going to say... please stop supporting blizzard hideous cash shop. You know full well people aren't going to support games charging $25 to change servers as a F2P Game, nevermind an actual P2P game. Those elements are game changing as 'minor' as you see them and the fact they are services that are charged for in a P2P game, and at horrendous amounts is really one area that disgusts me about blizzard and their greedy. I'm sorry you can enjoy your game all you want but you can't support such ugly practices of greed meant to nickle and dime PAYING SUBSCRIBERS for the game.
A cash shop is a cash shop, and when your offering stuff at prices games like neverwinter which are futlly F2P get yelled at for charging such stupidly high prices for, you know your getting a bit bias and blind to how terrible it is. Its completely anti-consumer how it is and its one area I think most of all I completely dislike blizzard for being greed with.
You dear sir are actually trolling with your post.
Only because someone dont agree with your opinion doesnt mean they are troliing.
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#1) I don't care to pay $15 a month...
To be perfectly honest, that has less to do with how the game is constructed and more with how people approached MMOs back then. Yes, vanilla was full of 'open world' activities (Hello never ending Tarren Mill mass pvp fests) but that was also because there wasn't that much to do outside of that. Once you've got your blue instance set from raiding strath/scholo and ubrs you either had to wait for the other 39 people to gather for MC/Nyxia or you just went around doing random stuff. Plus, a lot of players back then were relatively new to the genre, hell, 10 years ago MMO genre was pretty small compared to today, even WoW with it's massive hype building and big brand started with what ? 200k subs ? Today when you hear a new MMO having less than 1 mil in first month you call it a failure.
Do I miss the good old days? Sometimes, but i can't really blame the game itself for lack of the same sense of wonder, it will never really return with any MMo unless there would be some fundamental shift in the genre i can't even imagine.
Here's a quote from Wikipedia
An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term free roam is also used, as is sandbox and free-roaming.[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4]
When you logged in to Vanilla WoW, could you roam freely? Check
Could you skip over content or level in different ways? Check
Was the world "open" to all levels and characters? Check
I guess I hit a nerve with the sandbox gestapo here, but vanilla WoW was always a sandbox game imho with instancing being only a feature, that is up until the newest stuff....
My 5 reasons why I have resubbed again to wow:
1) all other promising mmos just f-cked up
2) its playable with friends
3) not overcrowded with bots and spams
4) tons of things to do and hi skill and low skill end game
5) I now what I will get for my money and time
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when people come in just spamming emotes or pictures, ya, it's just low grade trolling
A conversation why it wasnt this or that would be decent...
I do agree with you on that. If someone dont have so much to say, they could just keep quiet.
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You cut the definition off where you wanted to try and make your point. It continues after where you copy and pasted only that information.
[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. An "open world" game does not necessarily imply a true sandbox. In a true "sandbox", the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.[5] Generally open world games still enforce some restrictions in the game environment, either due to absolute technical limitations or in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity.
WoW has the half of the definition you pasted, but doesn't have the other half.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Here ya go OP, hope this helps ya, but I am just going to believe what you want to believe.
http://lorehound.com/news/the-merits-of-sand-box-versus-theme-park-mmos/
To me, the OP is confusing open world with sandbox.
Hope this helps ya.
You declared everyone who disagrees with you a troll even before people posted any emotes or pictures. Your whole 'WOW was 100% sandbox ' statement is so absurd that sometimes there are no words to express it.
1. What you failed to realise is that new players want to play with other people, a task made harder if 90% of the population are doing new content. As someone who has played since vanilla i can honestly say i dont give a single crap for people who have boosted, their boosting does not interfere with me in the slightest, so why would it bother me?
2. It has never been a sandbox. What the hell you've been playing? They have streamlined a lot of stuff, mainly starting from TBC, seems to of worked considering the population growth. Sadly Cata and MOP just werent fun xpacs, MOP is a bit better now tho.
3. Not sure on your arguement here, Cross Server is beneficial, and yes some people are annoying. Not a fault in the tech but with the people.
4. Management has changed a few times, one mans direction not always the same as the next mans. They have a duty to make profit, more profit means happier share holders. Thankfully none of which they have sold has been P2W and its good on them to have a large enough medium to benefit some charities with it.
5. Yep, crafting has moved in leaps and bounds in other games and for some it's far superior. FF14 has a wonderful system, but then, I dont play WoW for crafting.
Few things -
Cata and MOP were lack luster, high promises for WOD. No its not dying nor a failing Empire, thats just you being wishful.
i thought i had played wow from vanilla straight through to the end of lich king... but i musta slept through its sandbox phase, because i sure as heck don't remember one.
and there were always instances... in fact i remember running my first instance before my lil troll had even reached level 20. And the big stuff to do at the end game were instanced. MC was your raid's version of MC. in eq1, for example, guilds actually had to compete in raids with other guilds for the bosses. there was one nagafen's lair and if some other guild was killing nagafen then oh well.
edit: whether or not something is a sandbox has nothing to do with whether or not it's open world. it has to do with the way the game does, or doesn't progress the player through the content. a sandbox game leaves the players to experience the games on their own terms and to generate their own content.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Open world DOES NOT equal sandbox. Sandbox does not equal open world. Open world is a feature, sandbox is a collection of features.
OP, WoW was considered a themepark on release. It was considered a themepark because all of the content is linear and scripted. You level 1-10 in this zone then 11-20 in this zone and so on while completing scripted instances that are fed to you in linear fashion. Everyone knew this how could you not. For example in SWG content that was similar in style to WoW were called *gasp* themeparks like Jabba's Themepark mission line. If you are trolling us instead well i guess congratulations?
1: They ARE giving a boost for free... It is included with the expansion... Free of charge... You pay for the expansion you get a boost. Yes they do charge for any beyond that, mostly because they are still a company... They end goal is to make money... Subscription or not. But that was not really what the original post was talking... It was talking about the devaluation of the journey.... Something a great deal of people do not give a rats arse about.
4: Yeah... I actually can do that.... Blizzard have invested A LOT in to making sure that you can play with both your friends and still be in a populated area without having to transfer from your server and leaving those of your friedns who do not want to transfer behind... Such things as cross-realm ques and zones... That is in the long run more important than you being able to hop around to what ever server happens to have the best economy right now... So i actually can support them making sure that customer support costs does not come out of the development budget. Especially when what you pay for is external account services. I am neither blind nor particularly biased... But unlike you i am a realist. Also, charging 25$ for your to go to the current FotM server is not beyond the reach of reasonable... Especially as it is designed both to cover the actual cost of the transfer as well as being a deterrent for people to use said service irresponsible (such as i outlined a bit up)
In short... I get it that you do not like the cost.. but that does not make it wrong.. or immoral.... Neither is it a re-neg of the statement Blizzard did about "microtransactions"... But if you have a qoute stating otherwise i would be glad to see it.
This have been a good conversation
Nice try OP but it won't fly here. You are trolling obviously by cherry picking the definition to suit your intent while cutting the rest. Caught red handed too.
That's the definition of an open world, not a sandbox.
You can have an open world themepark and you you can have an open world sandbox.
I'll turn your argument around on you.
If WoW was 100% sandbox on release, how could that same design coin the term 'themepark'?
You have had your answer numerous times: it is was a linear game progression from start to finish. Each class had a linear progression - a paladin had a set path with a set skill set - a paladin could never learn the skills of a hunter, for example. Quests were linear. Progression was linear. Classes were linear. You could only choose a set number of crafting skills. There were not multiple options in any way shape or form. You followed their script from beginning to end. You didn't write your own story. Your story mirrored that of every player in the game and everyone who played your class in the game. You created a character and rode the rides blizzard created for you. You didn't create your own.
From that same wikipedia you quoted:
'An open world is a level or game designed as a nonlinear, vast open area with many ways to reach an objective'.
*Note the word nonlinear - which WoW has never ever been.
From http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/penelopae/blog/rpg-defined-what-is-a-themepark-mmo/89885/:
World of Warcraft, or WoW, a classic example of a game that is more true to the themepark MMO stereotype.
Everquest was more sandbox than WoW - and EQ has and always will be defined overall as a themepark.
You absolutely, positively have your definitions confused. WoW is and always has been the archetype of a themepark game.
These people aren't trolling you. You are simply wrong. Absolutely, positively wrong. Email Bill Murphy or anyone else on staff here at mmorpg, and ask them.
When absolutely every single person in your thread is telling you that you are wrong, perhaps you actually are wrong.
Or you could simply take it from an adult who has been playing mmo's since UO. WoW never has been anything close to a sandbox, ever. <--Period
Change your argument and say instead, WoW was more fun on release than it is now. If you did that you would find millions who agree.
1) did it bother yu tht dks didnt start theyr journey as a lvl 1 as well?
and no it doesnt payed leveling has been availible before but thru outside sourses i dun think there will come many newbs for this but many old players might find it useful 2 instant lvl theyr alts to 90 2 get access to th new stuff 
2) wow has always been instansed all dungeons n raids have always been that
3) so whats so horrible with cross server stuff? as some said i8t helps ppl frm low pop severs who dont wanna move to play
4) sure yu can buy mounts and pets and serrver moves/faction change but tht doesnt give yu an advantage in the game now does it? n bsides theres still opportunites fer pvp regardless
5) wow is old and has simplified crafting so evryone can do it :)and plz give us an example on "good" crafting qte events where yu have to click or press a button at the right moment perhaps?
well go play something else then op no1s forcing yu to play wow.
it doesnt help complaining in here those tht still plays wow will continue to do so