Originally posted by hallucigenocide not quite sure about that either.. leveling was fun but once i hit max level i did'nt really find it that interesting anymore. rep grind and raiding seemed to be all it offered at the time i played it atleast.
I find when i hit max lvl in any mmo i'm done with it. Or if the story is different for all races and classes maybe i'll make another character. But if it going to be doing the same thing over and over i'm done. This is what swotor does well. As far as this game goes when my 30 days were up i was all done. I never understood the big deal over this game. I have a feeling it has to do with the bad games in the genre that came out around the same time and nothing really new thats any good. It's been a bad couple of years for mmo's.
"The success of the game must be due to <insert negative/demeaning attribute of its playerbase here> or <insert a negative attribute of the overall genre affecting the success of this "otherwise bad" game here>."
Now, everyone, let us make a circle and dance around the positive qualities of the game. If we keep dancing until the sun goes down, maybe those positive qualities will slowly but surely disappear as if they never existed. Then we can kumbayah to the late night under the impression that our opinion was the right one after all!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by Kajidourden I loved the game at first, but after finally "catching up" and being at the point where my character needed only either A) Raid gear or Zodiac gear I got very bored with it.I realize that this is the new standard for MMOs now, but all of my MMO experience has been more old school ( the older versions of ffxi, EQ/EQ II, LOTRO, Vangaurd, etc). I suppose I didn't really realize it until I got to that point...but it just became inane to me.Everything is simplified to the lowest common denominator, and literally the entire game revolves around Raiding, waiting for an expansion/patch, and repeating the process. After playing the aforementioned games, I just couldn't see myself spending that much time on something so....un-dynamic.I will probably never get the kind of mmo I would want to play again, but I keep my eye open for new stuff as it comes out. Current hope: EQN, but we'll see how that goes.
It's funny you say that because when visiting the forums that's all they talk about is raiding and dungeons, the same thing in every Theme Park MMO. The game revolves around raiding and dungeons and the only way to progress is to do it. It's not the games fault, but the sub genre of of the MMO.
Also, there is a thread on why people like FFXIV over WoW and the number one response was because it was Final Fantasy and second was the graphics are better.
Also, there is a thread on why people like FFXIV over WoW and the number one response was because it was Final Fantasy and second was the graphics are better.
Yep, also why FFXIV 1.0 was such a raging success.
/sarcasm
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by KajidourdenI loved the game at first, but after finally "catching up" and being at the point where my character needed only either A) Raid gear or Zodiac gear I got very bored with it.I realize that this is the new standard for MMOs now, but all of my MMO experience has been more old school ( the older versions of ffxi, EQ/EQ II, LOTRO, Vangaurd, etc). I suppose I didn't really realize it until I got to that point...but it just became inane to me.Everything is simplified to the lowest common denominator, and literally the entire game revolves around Raiding, waiting for an expansion/patch, and repeating the process. After playing the aforementioned games, I just couldn't see myself spending that much time on something so....un-dynamic.I will probably never get the kind of mmo I would want to play again, but I keep my eye open for new stuff as it comes out. Current hope: EQN, but we'll see how that goes.
It's funny you say that because when visiting the forums that's all they talk about is raiding and dungeons, the same thing in every Theme Park MMO. The game revolves around raiding and dungeons and the only way to progress is to do it. It's not the games fault, but the sub genre of of the MMO. Also, there is a thread on why people like FFXIV over WoW and the number one response was because it was Final Fantasy and second was the graphics are better.
Ok what? Did you go off the first comment in the thread or what many people give other reason including those. Pure hyperbole at it's best.
What I should have said, the final fantasy theme and graphics have been the most stated reasons. I never said they never gave other reasons, but the most popular are those two.
It's Final Fantasy. Just like SWTOR is living off the fact that it's Star Wars. Sometimes the IP sells the game, and sometimes the IP hurts the game (like it did to ESO) due to expectations.
But its not "living off" anything. yes the Ip may help, but it's defo not the deciding factor to why it's popular, as someone stated if so 1.0 would have done very well, but it actually failed to the point even die hard fans fled the game, on top of that, the company admitted they messed up, made it free and re-designed the game.
So saying the game is doing well because it's living off the back of it's Ip is very inaccurate considering the back story.
I just resubb'd after watching the patch trailers and upcoming content. Those raids look awesome! I haven't played in a VERY long time so hoping all is as good as they say it is Currently i'm a WoW player waiting on WoD.
If you keep saying is the IP, the ff theme or whatever then you're a freaking troll or someone with the memory of a fish. ARR is the remake of a game that tanked so hard with the player base it became the joke of the internet. Ffxiv was the best example on how a game cannot survive based on its IP alone, no matter how big that IP is.
Originally posted by Herase Originally posted by RusqueIt's Final Fantasy. Just like SWTOR is living off the fact that it's Star Wars. Sometimes the IP sells the game, and sometimes the IP hurts the game (like it did to ESO) due to expectations.
But its not "living off" anything. yes the Ip may help, but it's defo not the deciding factor to why it's popular, as someone stated if so 1.0 would have done very well, but it actually failed to the point even die hard fans fled the game, on top of that, the company admitted they messed up, made it free and re-designed the game.
So saying the game is doing well because it's living off the back of it's Ip is very inaccurate considering the back story.
But FFXIV doesn't have much else to offer different than other themepark MMOs it's really what a few have said, level up, raid, wait for next expac/raid. Same process over again. Many themepark MMOs follow the same genre but they're no where near successful as WoW and FFXIV. While at the same time they're not all that much different.
Originally posted by Edli If you keep saying is the IP, the ff theme or whatever then you're a freaking troll or someone with the memory of a fish. ARR is the remake of a game that tanked so hard with the player base it became the joke of the internet. Ffxiv was the best example on how a game cannot survive based on its IP alone, no matter how big that IP is.You just can't ignore that.
Not really. FFXIV was terrible because you literally couldn't play it. There was so many restrictions and bad decisions, like you said a die hard fan wouldn't play it. I gave this game a shot but to be honest I enjoyed the earlier days of FFXI much more and played it for much longer.
But FFXIV doesn't have much else to offer different than other themepark MMOs it's really what a few have said, level up, raid, wait for next expac/raid. Same process over again. Many themepark MMOs follow the same genre but they're no where near successful as WoW and FFXIV. While at the same time they're not all that much different.
Your logic makes no sense. Let me get this straight, according to you x game is a themepark, y game is themepark so they both are the same games and should be equally successful. That is just ridiculous. All racing games should be equally successful, all fps, platformers, mobas or whathaveyou.
2 games may have the same features but what makes one successful over the other is how those features are implemented.
The worst thing about this game for me was the simplistic skill system and the GCD. Playing as a tank got pretty damn boring doing 1 wait 2.5s, 2 wait, 3 wait, 4 wait.. etc. Playing as a healer was just as boring, basically just waiting for someone to take damage and then heal them. I also played a Bard, which I then found out was mostly a support class. And not the buffing kind of support, just the support that makes me do less damage so others can keep up their mana/tp.
The ONLY thing that makes this game interesting is boss mechanics, but that's it. That for me wasn't enough to keep playing it. Every character is exactly the same, there's no customization. They all use the same set of skills, the same gear, so on and so forth. I'm not a FF fan (didn't play them as a kid), I got into it because my friend was, and we started playing as a group. So none of the nostalgic stuff applies to me unfortunately.
A lot of ppl are against lowering the GCDs and changing the skill system and I just don't understand their reasoning. RIFT and WoW both have 1 to 1.5s GCD, FFXIV's 2.5s is just ridiculous. I played LOTRO where there were many many skills, each with their own separate cooldowns, no GCD, attack speed controlled how fast you could use your skills. In my opinion this was the best system. There were no combo skills, so there was no typical clearcut 1-2-3-4. You had to develop your own rotation by figuring out what works best, and that set good players apart from bad players. A healer in lotro wasn't just healing either, they were buffing with anthems and stuff. You also had classes like loremaster/burglar that did CC/debuff/support, and captains make everyone awesome by buffing their stats/crit/attackspeed, etc. You could customize your traits, legendary items, and pick from different gear sets (correlating to the trait lines) which also made you different from everybody else of the same class. None of these concepts exist in a game like FFXIV, and that to me makes the game very boring.
If you love crafting, then FFXIV is the perfect game, it turns crafting into an actual minigame by itself, but crafting was never my cup of tea. I'm a warrior, I like combat, and I want to have fun doing it, not feel like it's a chore. I want to seek out mobs to kill them, not avoid them like the plague. All I can say is there's so much you can do Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone so many times before you're just like *!@% THIS I'm done!
We need a game that incorporates an interesting, fun and challenging skill/class system with hard boss mechanics. Too bad you can only get one or the other, and that type of skill system is losing favor, even LOTRO has decided (along with dungeons and raids entirely) to get rid of it. It's a shame.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
The worst thing about this game for me was the simplistic skill system and the GCD. Playing as a tank got pretty damn boring doing 1 wait 2.5s, 2 wait, 3 wait, 4 wait.. etc. Playing as a healer was just as boring, basically just waiting for someone to take damage and then heal them. I also played a Bard, which I then found out was mostly a support class. And not the buffing kind of support, just the support that makes me do less damage so others can keep up their mana/tp.
The ONLY thing that makes this game interesting is boss mechanics, but that's it. That for me wasn't enough to keep playing it. Every character is exactly the same, there's no customization. They all use the same set of skills, the same gear, so on and so forth. I'm not a FF fan (didn't play them as a kid), I got into it because my friend was, and we started playing as a group. So none of the nostalgic stuff applies to me unfortunately.
A lot of ppl are against lowering the GCDs and changing the skill system and I just don't understand their reasoning. RIFT and WoW both have 1 to 1.5s GCD, FFXIV's 2.5s is just ridiculous. I played LOTRO where there were many many skills, each with their own separate cooldowns, no GCD, attack speed controlled how fast you could use your skills. In my opinion this was the best system. There were no combo skills, so there was no typical clearcut 1-2-3-4. You had to develop your own rotation by figuring out what works best, and that set good players apart from bad players. A healer in lotro wasn't just healing either, they were buffing with anthems and stuff. You also had classes like loremaster/burglar that did CC/debuff/support, and captains make everyone awesome by buffing their stats/crit/attackspeed, etc. You could customize your traits, legendary items, and pick from different gear sets (correlating to the trait lines) which also made you different from everybody else of the same class. None of these concepts exist in a game like FFXIV, and that to me makes the game very boring.
If you love crafting, then FFXIV is the perfect game, it turns crafting into an actual minigame by itself, but crafting was never my cup of tea. I'm a warrior, I like combat, and I want to have fun doing it, not feel like it's a chore. I want to seek out mobs to kill them, not avoid them like the plague. All I can say is there's so much you can do Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone so many times before you're just like *!@% THIS I'm done!
We need a game that incorporates an interesting, fun and challenging skill/class system with hard boss mechanics. Too bad you can only get one or the other, and that type of skill system is losing favor, even LOTRO has decided (along with dungeons and raids entirely) to get rid of it. It's a shame.
What level did you get to? Because the game does pretty difficult later on.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
A lot of ppl are against lowering the GCDs and changing the skill system and I just don't understand their reasoning.
I'll tell you why. The low GCD is very noticeable in the beginning, on easy fights. When you reach endgame though is a different beast. Fights on this game throw at players a lot more mechanics than in other games I played. The low GCD gives players time to handle all those mechanics. If they were to shorten GCD they would have to dumb down fights too because there is only so much a player can handle.
Plus you have melee classes that rely a lot on positional attacks. Going from flank to rear to flank. GCD is perfect the way it is for them. You start a chain on back and by the time the next skill is ready you're on flank. Shortening GCD would ruin them.
Another reason why I don't want shorter GCD is because timing when you hit a particular skill is more important on slow GCD. Take the healer on WoW. Is basically just spamming furiously heals on healbot. Playing whack a mole. On slower GCD you can't just spam skills. Say you throw an aoe heal, after that boss does massive aoe dmg and another attack that may kill a player while your skill is still on cooldown. So you basically have to know when to cast.
The thing with short GCD games is that they end up being a spam fest with no real strategy. I much prefer dark souls than devil may cry for example but I guess that's just a matter of taste.
A lot of ppl are against lowering the GCDs and changing the skill system and I just don't understand their reasoning.
I'll tell you why. The low GCD is very noticeable in the beginning, on easy fights. When you reach endgame though is a different beast. Fights on this game throw at players a lot more mechanics than in other games I played. The low GCD gives players time to handle all those mechanics. If they were to shorten GCD they would have to dumb down fights too because there is only so much a player can handle.
Plus you have melee classes that rely a lot on positional attacks. Going from flank to rear to flank. GCD is perfect the way it is for them. You start a chain on back and by the time the next skill is ready you're on flank. Shortening GCD would ruin them.
Another reason why I don't want shorter GCD is because timing when you hit a particular skill is more important on slow GCD. Take the healer on WoW. Is basically just spamming furiously heals on healbot. Playing whack a mole. On slower GCD you can't just spam skills. Say you throw an aoe heal, after that boss does massive aoe dmg and another attack that may kill a player while your skill is still on cooldown. So you basically have to know when to cast.
The thing with short GCD games is that they end up being a spam fest with no real strategy. I much prefer dark souls than devil may cry for example but I guess that's just a matter of taste.
An extremely important part of slow GCD is the quality of skill animation. With short GCD the skill animations must be so short they look incredibly bland and unimpressive. I couldn't figure out what my character is actually doing when I played LOTRO. Every skill was a boring mishmash that was over before it even began. ARR uses the 2.5seconds GCD to make incredibly cool looking skills with a lot of attention put into each skill. Of course the general gamer population doesn't care about the visuals and would prefer no animations or effects or anything that distracts from pressing buttons as efficiently and fast as possible. Basically a bunch of numerical values on a 3-dimensional area would be great. Either way for us who love attention to detail and visually pleasing games that still manage to play well enough, there is no better game than ARR.
TL;DR: long GCD has both advantages and disadvantages. Saying one is superior over the other is only a subjective opinion at best.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Unfortunately, in today market there are none. [mod edit] Even if you disagree with this now, just think about it. First time you entered COB, you faced a masterpiece of a mob aka ADS. Floating black ball and not just only one. Duplicates of it were used for the whole floor. A lazy (or rush) design effort [mod edit] and it doesnt stop there. Players get to fight Primal bosses. and then theres a hard mode and then an extremely hard mode. only a few mechanics were added to each level. and the whole instance is just fight one boss. no other mobs, no zone, no dungeon etc. just the one boss and a few dance moves with it and thats it. how little design effort were put into these just to lengthen the time players sub their games. so many duplicates , super lazy.
Lazy, eh? Tell that to the people whom are having a hell of a time clearing the Extreme modes of those fights. Titan Extreme, in particular, seems to get people talking lol.
The problem with your statements is that you speak from sheer ignorance of what it actually takes to create those encounters, setup the progression of the fights, the mechanics, the difficulty, the balancing (to ensure any class can feasibly participate and be effective, even if not optimally; BLMs can have a difficult time in Titan, for example, due to how much you have to keep moving, etc). That you, perhaps, can't believe those fights are challenging to conceive/create/test/balance is sheer argument from incredulity, nothing more.
The whole instance is to fight one boss because, that's the point of primal fights. You're fighting the primal. Nothing else. Many players happen to find those fights fun. And at the end of the day, that's the point, no?
You have to also consider that the Primal Fights are just one type of content players can participate in, across the levels.
Beside the Primal fights, there are about 28 instanced dungeons, including hard mode. I include Hard Mode in this list, because they are different enough from the regular modes to be considered new. They're not just the same dungeons with the difficulty turned up. See Tam Tara normal mode, versus Tam Tara Hard mode for example - different map, different enemies, progression, strategies, bosses, etc. Tam Tara Hard has its own unique story around it, which weaves into the main game with some background NPCs you encounter along the way.
That's not including the 13 turns of Binding Coil of Bahamut, or the Crystal Tower, which is also broken into smaller chunks, with new parts coming up.
Considering all of that has been implemented in the course of the game's first year, it's incredibly dishonest for you to come here and talk about Primals, with up to 3 difficulty modes, and some crazy fight mechanics, as being "lazy".
the sad thing is that there are not many better alternatives to FFXIV in the market . id say GW2 is an A. its production is very good (and its value is great., B2P) but its longevity probably lies in pvp (wvw) rather than pve. I no longer play it but regard it as a good game. arenanet always tried to make something different and credit to them.
Your opinion, which you're entitled to.
So in my opinion, GW2 is A, ESO & WS are B. FFXIV is a B too. FFXIV production is the worst of those mentioned but it does better in retention due to stronger fanbase. Overall quality of the market however is not very good. Nothing like the good old days of EQ, DAoC, Wow (Vanilla & BC), RO, even L2. Those are true quality mmo.
I disagree with you on the FFXIV being a B-grade game. You may as well be saying "I like it" or "I don't like it". It's all opinion. Like the game or not, I think it's grasping at straws to call FFXIV anything but a AAA MMORPG.
I happen to agree with you on the older-school MMOs having been better overall MMORPG experiences. Sadly, the market has moved on from that style of gameplay, and I don't think a game like those would do very well in today's market - unless they were catering to, and budgeted for the limited market they'd appeal to.
A lot of ppl are against lowering the GCDs and changing the skill system and I just don't understand their reasoning.
I'll tell you why. The low GCD is very noticeable in the beginning, on easy fights. When you reach endgame though is a different beast. Fights on this game throw at players a lot more mechanics than in other games I played. The low GCD gives players time to handle all those mechanics. If they were to shorten GCD they would have to dumb down fights too because there is only so much a player can handle.
Plus you have melee classes that rely a lot on positional attacks. Going from flank to rear to flank. GCD is perfect the way it is for them. You start a chain on back and by the time the next skill is ready you're on flank. Shortening GCD would ruin them.
Another reason why I don't want shorter GCD is because timing when you hit a particular skill is more important on slow GCD. Take the healer on WoW. Is basically just spamming furiously heals on healbot. Playing whack a mole. On slower GCD you can't just spam skills. Say you throw an aoe heal, after that boss does massive aoe dmg and another attack that may kill a player while your skill is still on cooldown. So you basically have to know when to cast.
The thing with short GCD games is that they end up being a spam fest with no real strategy. I much prefer dark souls than devil may cry for example but I guess that's just a matter of taste.
Yep, something some people don't seem to consider is that with a slower GCD, the timing of skills becomes as important as the skills themselves. You have to really learn the fights, have a grasp on the timing of different attacks, etc, and know how to weave your skill usage around that.
With slower GCD, that matters, and mistakes can hurt, badly. In games with lower GCD, you can practically just spam right through the errors and it doesn't make a difference.
Higher GCD necessitates a higher amount of situational awareness, and a feel for the timing of your abilities.
I think some people just like to spam abilities more so they can see the big numbers flying up quickly, and a slower GCD doesn't allow that. I'll admit, having played MMOs with faster GCDs and more spammy combat, that seeing a continuous stream of high damage numbers floating up has its appeal, but it's ultimately eye-candy at the cost of thought and timing. I find much more satisfaction in seeing fewer numbers floating up, but those numbers being higher because my timing and/or positioning was optimal, thanks to a slower GCD allowing me to position myself optimally, etc. "Less is more" in this case.
It's Final Fantasy. Just like SWTOR is living off the fact that it's Star Wars. Sometimes the IP sells the game, and sometimes the IP hurts the game (like it did to ESO) due to expectations.
It's not living off the FF name, though. It's living off being a solid, polished Final Fantasy themed MMO with a ton of content and high entertainment value for those playing it. I've spoken to a number of people who've never played FF games before, or tried them and weren't nuts about them. Even without context or history with the series, they're loving ARR, because they find the game itself to be a fun and solid experience. It hits all the right buttons for them.
As I (and others) have said before, if merely being Final Fantasy was enough to carry it, then 1.0 wouldn't have failed, and 2.0 would never have happened. The IP only goes so far. If the game isn't good, people aren't sticking around, fans of the IP or no.
The problem with ESO, as I saw it, was that it didn't feel enough like an offline Elder Scrolls game. So, I don't think that being an Elder Scrolls game is what hurt it. I think not being Elder Scrolls enough did; at least that seemed to be a very common complaint when I was checking it out. Although I've read the game is improving, which is good to hear, for fans, and for anyone else looking to check it out. If people can find a fun game to call "home", then that's all that matters at the end of the day.
The worst thing about this game for me was the simplistic skill system and the GCD. Playing as a tank got pretty damn boring doing 1 wait 2.5s, 2 wait, 3 wait, 4 wait.. etc. Playing as a healer was just as boring, basically just waiting for someone to take damage and then heal them. I also played a Bard, which I then found out was mostly a support class. And not the buffing kind of support, just the support that makes me do less damage so others can keep up their mana/tp.
The ONLY thing that makes this game interesting is boss mechanics, but that's it. That for me wasn't enough to keep playing it. Every character is exactly the same, there's no customization. They all use the same set of skills, the same gear, so on and so forth. I'm not a FF fan (didn't play them as a kid), I got into it because my friend was, and we started playing as a group. So none of the nostalgic stuff applies to me unfortunately.
A lot of ppl are against lowering the GCDs and changing the skill system and I just don't understand their reasoning. RIFT and WoW both have 1 to 1.5s GCD, FFXIV's 2.5s is just ridiculous. I played LOTRO where there were many many skills, each with their own separate cooldowns, no GCD, attack speed controlled how fast you could use your skills. In my opinion this was the best system. There were no combo skills, so there was no typical clearcut 1-2-3-4. You had to develop your own rotation by figuring out what works best, and that set good players apart from bad players. A healer in lotro wasn't just healing either, they were buffing with anthems and stuff. You also had classes like loremaster/burglar that did CC/debuff/support, and captains make everyone awesome by buffing their stats/crit/attackspeed, etc. You could customize your traits, legendary items, and pick from different gear sets (correlating to the trait lines) which also made you different from everybody else of the same class. None of these concepts exist in a game like FFXIV, and that to me makes the game very boring.
If you love crafting, then FFXIV is the perfect game, it turns crafting into an actual minigame by itself, but crafting was never my cup of tea. I'm a warrior, I like combat, and I want to have fun doing it, not feel like it's a chore. I want to seek out mobs to kill them, not avoid them like the plague. All I can say is there's so much you can do Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone so many times before you're just like *!@% THIS I'm done!
We need a game that incorporates an interesting, fun and challenging skill/class system with hard boss mechanics. Too bad you can only get one or the other, and that type of skill system is losing favor, even LOTRO has decided (along with dungeons and raids entirely) to get rid of it. It's a shame.
1) If you're constantly waiting for GCDs you're doing it wrong. At max level you will have several skills that are off GCD that you will be mixing in to your rotations rather than waiting for the GCD. Some classes are heavily reliant on their off-GCD skills actually to be good, such as the Bard. Which leads me to...
2) Bard is absolutely not just a support class. If you're bad at the class, maybe, but there are quite a few bards out there who can put out very high DPS with proper buff management and maximizing their off-GCD skills like Bloodletter. I typically only put out about 5% less DPS in raids than the Blackmage in my static and have often put out more than him if I was getting enough River of Blood procs.
Maybe you werent around for it, but they nerfed bards a bit not long after launch. They were nerfed for a reason as they were able to out damage other classes easily on top of having range and mobility allowing them to to dodge fight mechanics more easily than any other class on top of it. Even after the nerfs, a good bard can still keep up with everyone else while also performing the support role.
TBH you rarely have to even use your TP / MP buffs, unless you're with people who suck at managing their own or in emergency situations (like if too many people are dying and healers have to keep wasting MP to raise them). Most of the time all you need is Foe's Req to buff your casters. Nearly every class has tools to regain their own TP / MP as needed. And with the introduction of Ninjas and their TP generation abilities for the group, Bards need to do it even less.
3) If you're just waiting for people to take damage as a healer, you're doing that wrong too. Both healing classes have a DPS option (Cleric Stance) as well as various buffs / debuffs theyre expected to use. It may not be required much in regular dungeon runs, but if you're doing things like coil runs and extreme primals you're often expected to do more than just heal. In some cases it's helping DPS, in some cases perfecting the timing of buffs & debuffs and focusing on those, and in some cases managing fight mechanics (like Renauds in T7) so that the other classes can focus on killing stuff.
Originally posted by AustrianBut FFXIV doesn't have much else to offer different than other themepark MMOs it's really what a few have said, level up, raid, wait for next expac/raid. Same process over again. Many themepark MMOs follow the same genre but they're no where near successful as WoW and FFXIV. While at the same time they're not all that much different.
Your logic makes no sense. Let me get this straight, according to you x game is a themepark, y game is themepark so they both are the same games and should be equally successful. That is just ridiculous. All racing games should be equally successful, all fps, platformers, mobas or whathaveyou.
2 games may have the same features but what makes one successful over the other is how those features are implemented.
It's a little more than X & Y there's been a dozens of AAA themepark MMOs with all the same structures and all but two/three failed, SWTOR, WoW, and FFXIV AR. Yes SWTOR is F2P but also P2P, so maybe 2 1/2? But guess what they're all big name titles and the only ones that are very successful.
It's a little more than X & Y there's been a dozens of AAA themepark MMOs with all the same structures and all but two/three failed, SWTOR, WoW, and FFXIV AR. Yes SWTOR is F2P but also P2P, so maybe 2 1/2? But guess what they're all big name titles and the only ones that are very successful.
Because these were the games that implemented the same structure right. Is such a simple concept yet you're having a hard time with it. x game has dungeons, y has dungeons. On one they're fun and interesting on the other they are boring tank and spank and uninspiring. One of these is going to be more popular than the other. The fact that both games have dungeons means nothing.
Do you notice a similarity between those 3 games? Blizzard, SE and Bioware. The only MMOs which are made by developers with a huge background in the gaming industry. Is no surprise that they are popular because these companies understand gameplay mechanisms, polish and attention to detail. They're not Funcom or whatever other noname developer that you only encounter on MMOs.
Because these were the games that implemented the same structure right. Is such a simple concept yet you're having a hard time with it. x game has dungeons, y has dungeons. On one they're fun and interesting on the other they are boring tank and spank and uninspiring. One of these is going to be more popular than the other. The fact that both games have dungeons means nothing.
These facts are pretty much lost on the haters sadly. The only way their pathetic attempts at comparing games works is as long as they stick to the concept of "dungeons" "cash shops" and "content additions" while ignoring substance completely.
Just an interesting remark... While unlocking the new contents (every single addition in this game has a lore/story associated with it, good luck finding that in any other MMORPG) I came across the lyrics for the new Shiva primal fight. Surprise surprise, there is lore to be found in the lyrics, which describe how the primal became a Saint when she was still a human. Pretty disturbing stuff, the story is definitely taking a turn to more mature. It was also a good reminder why ARR is such a great game, other developers wouldn't even think of giving the world this much thought.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
I find when i hit max lvl in any mmo i'm done with it. Or if the story is different for all races and classes maybe i'll make another character. But if it going to be doing the same thing over and over i'm done. This is what swotor does well. As far as this game goes when my 30 days were up i was all done. I never understood the big deal over this game. I have a feeling it has to do with the bad games in the genre that came out around the same time and nothing really new thats any good. It's been a bad couple of years for mmo's.
"The success of the game must be due to <insert negative/demeaning attribute of its playerbase here> or <insert a negative attribute of the overall genre affecting the success of this "otherwise bad" game here>."
Now, everyone, let us make a circle and dance around the positive qualities of the game. If we keep dancing until the sun goes down, maybe those positive qualities will slowly but surely disappear as if they never existed. Then we can kumbayah to the late night under the impression that our opinion was the right one after all!
It's funny you say that because when visiting the forums that's all they talk about is raiding and dungeons, the same thing in every Theme Park MMO. The game revolves around raiding and dungeons and the only way to progress is to do it. It's not the games fault, but the sub genre of of the MMO.
Also, there is a thread on why people like FFXIV over WoW and the number one response was because it was Final Fantasy and second was the graphics are better.
Yep, also why FFXIV 1.0 was such a raging success.
/sarcasm
What I should have said, the final fantasy theme and graphics have been the most stated reasons. I never said they never gave other reasons, but the most popular are those two.
But its not "living off" anything. yes the Ip may help, but it's defo not the deciding factor to why it's popular, as someone stated if so 1.0 would have done very well, but it actually failed to the point even die hard fans fled the game, on top of that, the company admitted they messed up, made it free and re-designed the game.
So saying the game is doing well because it's living off the back of it's Ip is very inaccurate considering the back story.
You just can't ignore that.
So saying the game is doing well because it's living off the back of it's Ip is very inaccurate considering the back story.
But FFXIV doesn't have much else to offer different than other themepark MMOs it's really what a few have said, level up, raid, wait for next expac/raid. Same process over again. Many themepark MMOs follow the same genre but they're no where near successful as WoW and FFXIV. While at the same time they're not all that much different.
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Not really. FFXIV was terrible because you literally couldn't play it. There was so many restrictions and bad decisions, like you said a die hard fan wouldn't play it. I gave this game a shot but to be honest I enjoyed the earlier days of FFXI much more and played it for much longer.
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So long as Square Enix doesn't follow Shanda Games' footsteps.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/2kvtt9/ffxiv_china_is_charging_133_for_fat_chocobo_mount/
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/200972
FFXIV China is selling the Fat Chocobo mount for $133.00
Your logic makes no sense. Let me get this straight, according to you x game is a themepark, y game is themepark so they both are the same games and should be equally successful. That is just ridiculous. All racing games should be equally successful, all fps, platformers, mobas or whathaveyou.
2 games may have the same features but what makes one successful over the other is how those features are implemented.
The worst thing about this game for me was the simplistic skill system and the GCD. Playing as a tank got pretty damn boring doing 1 wait 2.5s, 2 wait, 3 wait, 4 wait.. etc. Playing as a healer was just as boring, basically just waiting for someone to take damage and then heal them. I also played a Bard, which I then found out was mostly a support class. And not the buffing kind of support, just the support that makes me do less damage so others can keep up their mana/tp.
The ONLY thing that makes this game interesting is boss mechanics, but that's it. That for me wasn't enough to keep playing it. Every character is exactly the same, there's no customization. They all use the same set of skills, the same gear, so on and so forth. I'm not a FF fan (didn't play them as a kid), I got into it because my friend was, and we started playing as a group. So none of the nostalgic stuff applies to me unfortunately.
A lot of ppl are against lowering the GCDs and changing the skill system and I just don't understand their reasoning. RIFT and WoW both have 1 to 1.5s GCD, FFXIV's 2.5s is just ridiculous. I played LOTRO where there were many many skills, each with their own separate cooldowns, no GCD, attack speed controlled how fast you could use your skills. In my opinion this was the best system. There were no combo skills, so there was no typical clearcut 1-2-3-4. You had to develop your own rotation by figuring out what works best, and that set good players apart from bad players. A healer in lotro wasn't just healing either, they were buffing with anthems and stuff. You also had classes like loremaster/burglar that did CC/debuff/support, and captains make everyone awesome by buffing their stats/crit/attackspeed, etc. You could customize your traits, legendary items, and pick from different gear sets (correlating to the trait lines) which also made you different from everybody else of the same class. None of these concepts exist in a game like FFXIV, and that to me makes the game very boring.
If you love crafting, then FFXIV is the perfect game, it turns crafting into an actual minigame by itself, but crafting was never my cup of tea. I'm a warrior, I like combat, and I want to have fun doing it, not feel like it's a chore. I want to seek out mobs to kill them, not avoid them like the plague. All I can say is there's so much you can do Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone so many times before you're just like *!@% THIS I'm done!
We need a game that incorporates an interesting, fun and challenging skill/class system with hard boss mechanics. Too bad you can only get one or the other, and that type of skill system is losing favor, even LOTRO has decided (along with dungeons and raids entirely) to get rid of it. It's a shame.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
What level did you get to? Because the game does pretty difficult later on.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
So by deduction, all anti-cash shop forum trolls just find the cash shops too cheap *thinks*
Would you all shut up if every F2P cash shop item was worth 130+ dollars? Seems so
Listen to this F2P devs ... raise the prices xD
I'll tell you why. The low GCD is very noticeable in the beginning, on easy fights. When you reach endgame though is a different beast. Fights on this game throw at players a lot more mechanics than in other games I played. The low GCD gives players time to handle all those mechanics. If they were to shorten GCD they would have to dumb down fights too because there is only so much a player can handle.
Plus you have melee classes that rely a lot on positional attacks. Going from flank to rear to flank. GCD is perfect the way it is for them. You start a chain on back and by the time the next skill is ready you're on flank. Shortening GCD would ruin them.
Another reason why I don't want shorter GCD is because timing when you hit a particular skill is more important on slow GCD. Take the healer on WoW. Is basically just spamming furiously heals on healbot. Playing whack a mole. On slower GCD you can't just spam skills. Say you throw an aoe heal, after that boss does massive aoe dmg and another attack that may kill a player while your skill is still on cooldown. So you basically have to know when to cast.
The thing with short GCD games is that they end up being a spam fest with no real strategy. I much prefer dark souls than devil may cry for example but I guess that's just a matter of taste.
An extremely important part of slow GCD is the quality of skill animation. With short GCD the skill animations must be so short they look incredibly bland and unimpressive. I couldn't figure out what my character is actually doing when I played LOTRO. Every skill was a boring mishmash that was over before it even began. ARR uses the 2.5seconds GCD to make incredibly cool looking skills with a lot of attention put into each skill. Of course the general gamer population doesn't care about the visuals and would prefer no animations or effects or anything that distracts from pressing buttons as efficiently and fast as possible. Basically a bunch of numerical values on a 3-dimensional area would be great. Either way for us who love attention to detail and visually pleasing games that still manage to play well enough, there is no better game than ARR.
TL;DR: long GCD has both advantages and disadvantages. Saying one is superior over the other is only a subjective opinion at best.
Yep, something some people don't seem to consider is that with a slower GCD, the timing of skills becomes as important as the skills themselves. You have to really learn the fights, have a grasp on the timing of different attacks, etc, and know how to weave your skill usage around that.
With slower GCD, that matters, and mistakes can hurt, badly. In games with lower GCD, you can practically just spam right through the errors and it doesn't make a difference.
Higher GCD necessitates a higher amount of situational awareness, and a feel for the timing of your abilities.
I think some people just like to spam abilities more so they can see the big numbers flying up quickly, and a slower GCD doesn't allow that. I'll admit, having played MMOs with faster GCDs and more spammy combat, that seeing a continuous stream of high damage numbers floating up has its appeal, but it's ultimately eye-candy at the cost of thought and timing. I find much more satisfaction in seeing fewer numbers floating up, but those numbers being higher because my timing and/or positioning was optimal, thanks to a slower GCD allowing me to position myself optimally, etc. "Less is more" in this case.
It's not living off the FF name, though. It's living off being a solid, polished Final Fantasy themed MMO with a ton of content and high entertainment value for those playing it. I've spoken to a number of people who've never played FF games before, or tried them and weren't nuts about them. Even without context or history with the series, they're loving ARR, because they find the game itself to be a fun and solid experience. It hits all the right buttons for them.
As I (and others) have said before, if merely being Final Fantasy was enough to carry it, then 1.0 wouldn't have failed, and 2.0 would never have happened. The IP only goes so far. If the game isn't good, people aren't sticking around, fans of the IP or no.
The problem with ESO, as I saw it, was that it didn't feel enough like an offline Elder Scrolls game. So, I don't think that being an Elder Scrolls game is what hurt it. I think not being Elder Scrolls enough did; at least that seemed to be a very common complaint when I was checking it out. Although I've read the game is improving, which is good to hear, for fans, and for anyone else looking to check it out. If people can find a fun game to call "home", then that's all that matters at the end of the day.
1) If you're constantly waiting for GCDs you're doing it wrong. At max level you will have several skills that are off GCD that you will be mixing in to your rotations rather than waiting for the GCD. Some classes are heavily reliant on their off-GCD skills actually to be good, such as the Bard. Which leads me to...
2) Bard is absolutely not just a support class. If you're bad at the class, maybe, but there are quite a few bards out there who can put out very high DPS with proper buff management and maximizing their off-GCD skills like Bloodletter. I typically only put out about 5% less DPS in raids than the Blackmage in my static and have often put out more than him if I was getting enough River of Blood procs.
Maybe you werent around for it, but they nerfed bards a bit not long after launch. They were nerfed for a reason as they were able to out damage other classes easily on top of having range and mobility allowing them to to dodge fight mechanics more easily than any other class on top of it. Even after the nerfs, a good bard can still keep up with everyone else while also performing the support role.
TBH you rarely have to even use your TP / MP buffs, unless you're with people who suck at managing their own or in emergency situations (like if too many people are dying and healers have to keep wasting MP to raise them). Most of the time all you need is Foe's Req to buff your casters. Nearly every class has tools to regain their own TP / MP as needed. And with the introduction of Ninjas and their TP generation abilities for the group, Bards need to do it even less.
3) If you're just waiting for people to take damage as a healer, you're doing that wrong too. Both healing classes have a DPS option (Cleric Stance) as well as various buffs / debuffs theyre expected to use. It may not be required much in regular dungeon runs, but if you're doing things like coil runs and extreme primals you're often expected to do more than just heal. In some cases it's helping DPS, in some cases perfecting the timing of buffs & debuffs and focusing on those, and in some cases managing fight mechanics (like Renauds in T7) so that the other classes can focus on killing stuff.
It's a little more than X & Y there's been a dozens of AAA themepark MMOs with all the same structures and all but two/three failed, SWTOR, WoW, and FFXIV AR. Yes SWTOR is F2P but also P2P, so maybe 2 1/2? But guess what they're all big name titles and the only ones that are very successful.
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Because these were the games that implemented the same structure right. Is such a simple concept yet you're having a hard time with it. x game has dungeons, y has dungeons. On one they're fun and interesting on the other they are boring tank and spank and uninspiring. One of these is going to be more popular than the other. The fact that both games have dungeons means nothing.
Do you notice a similarity between those 3 games? Blizzard, SE and Bioware. The only MMOs which are made by developers with a huge background in the gaming industry. Is no surprise that they are popular because these companies understand gameplay mechanisms, polish and attention to detail. They're not Funcom or whatever other noname developer that you only encounter on MMOs.
These facts are pretty much lost on the haters sadly. The only way their pathetic attempts at comparing games works is as long as they stick to the concept of "dungeons" "cash shops" and "content additions" while ignoring substance completely.
Just an interesting remark... While unlocking the new contents (every single addition in this game has a lore/story associated with it, good luck finding that in any other MMORPG) I came across the lyrics for the new Shiva primal fight. Surprise surprise, there is lore to be found in the lyrics, which describe how the primal became a Saint when she was still a human. Pretty disturbing stuff, the story is definitely taking a turn to more mature. It was also a good reminder why ARR is such a great game, other developers wouldn't even think of giving the world this much thought.
Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but for me....well, a picture is worth a thousand words, after all.