SE makes really good games. FFXI did really well for a really long time despite having something people generally hate- persistant forced grouping. Why? Because it was really well made and the graphics were top notch for the time.
FFXIV isn't innovative but again it's really well made and the graphics are amazing for the resources it uses (rift taxes my machine more and looks 1/2 as good).
People have been trying to innovate the MMO for awhile and it usually fails. I'd like to see a big name like SE try to do it, but there's generally problems. Like Archeage for example- because the game revolves around open-world pvp, zerg guilds basically control entire servers and make it unfun for anyone not in them (not to mention the hacks/bugs).
I stopped reading when you basically said you hate conventional MMOs; it was no longer a post about FFXIV at that stage - it was a post about how you made most MMOs.
I played FFXIV while I was living in Japan. It was a pretty solid experience and I had looked forward to playing when I returned to Europe.. yeah.. only to find I had to now play with 130-200 ping on Canadian servers (European servers apparently) vs my 5-10 ping I had in Japan.
Until they host actual EU servers, there's plenty of other options out there for me.
I stopped reading when you basically said you hate conventional MMOs; it was no longer a post about FFXIV at that stage - it was a post about how you made most MMOs.
I played FFXIV while I was living in Japan. It was a pretty solid experience and I had looked forward to playing when I returned to Europe.. yeah.. only to find I had to now play with 130-200 ping on Canadian servers (European servers apparently) vs my 5-10 ping I had in Japan.
Until they host actual EU servers, there's plenty of other options out there for me.
The game has 100 ping by default, so the difference is not that large.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Personally, I think its a combination of things...
1.) Great Polish - If its one thing people like (whether its a good or bad things how much its pushed alot) its the polish. FF14 does a great job having characters that are very visually appealing. The graphics have a great aesthetic, one that is done so quite efficiently as well. It allows for it to run smoothly for more people and it looks great in the process.
2.) Satisfying combat (Weight of Combat) - This is one thing that is often neglected. FF14 really emphasizing weight with players and their abilities more then most. A big issue with combat is often a more slippery feel to it. FF14 forces the player to stand still, to give their attacks a lot more visual power behind it that makes it much more satisfying. Its a slower pace, but it really makes attacks feel meaningful. As much as people tend to blind sightedly claim for mobility, its often those same people who will find a liking in the feel for combat that holds a more solid feel behind it. It won't appeal to EVERY player of course, but its really an element that strengthens the game.
3.) Class Variety - This doesn't just include the number of jobs, but also what they can all potentially do. The game follows a more traditional tank/heal/damage basis, however there is elements of support mixed in. Bards in particular have a big emphasis on this support element that cakes in well with the gameplay. Classes typically can contribute various elements which give team synergy to increase the feeling of teamwork in the game, without being all that disruptive to accomplishing it.
4.) Execution Matters - For a game that is more slow paced with its abilities, its easy to mistake it for giving more time to react. This isn't the case at all. FF14 really requires players to execute their abilities and movement correctly to do well. A mistake in positioning can greatly hurt and potentially even kill a player for their own slip ups. This really creates a feeling of challenge that to often is glossed over in other games.
5.) The Music and Sound effects - I will state it might be a little 'cheatsy' as some music is just repackaged final fantasy music. None the less, the soundtrack is amazing. It does a great job of inspiring a sense of atmosphere matching the gameplay. Its an MMo that for once I actually keep the sounds and effects on a good majority of the time. This really can get a player to become involved in the setting a lot more. Good audio is a big factor in drawing people into any media, and in a game it perhaps can be more so.
6.) Story - I'll admit, it can be a bit cheesy at times, but its actually quite good for an online game. It does a good job of developing story and plot. In particular, it gives a real 'epic' feel about the story, many elements being done without even needing to fully expose themselves to the player.Finishing the main storyline for me gave a real epic feeling, something that doesn't usually become invoked in me in most games, and it didn't even need to be for the sense of beating some hard boss. It takes a lot to really give value to doing something without needing it to be the most challenging content in the world.
7.) Raiding/Dungeons - People still enjoy these... this is were challenge comes from. Its silly when people claim 'they aren't any good'. Its the element that tends to allow for games to have any sense of difficulty to them. It really pushes team work to accomplish them, many mechanics relying on the group to work together to accomplish tasks. Its partly going onto my point of execution, but I think just the sheer design and intrigue of the raids and dungeons being able to give such an 'epic' feel really contributes to peoples enjoyment of playing through them.
8.) Its Final Fantasy - Alright... not a very good reason but I had to include it. Its more then likely a factor as to why people enjoy it. I'll guiltily admit it does add to the game for me.
9.) Crafting - Yeah... a crafting system were its leveled much like combat classes with some depth involved. It really makes the experience much more interesting to do. Some people won't like the more work you need to put in to accomplish it, while those die hards out there might think its not complex enough. For a good majority of people though I think it fights the right balance of having more complexity to it without being overly bogged down in accomplishing it.
Honestly, you mention more to do outside the regular stuff... its something that I'm not quite sure how to respond to. Most MMos ARE mostly about such things and yet people enjoy and play them. I'm not really certain why people need more things, at least primary things. Of course, the game does have things like housing, story elements and just general time wasting activites, all of which do allow for you to occupy your time playing through them. I never got why people need more variety just tossed in your face in excess to 'warrent' a game, such things shouldn't even be a big deal outside extra time wasting, usually added as the game grows older and advances.
Originally posted by Br3akingDawn once they take down FFXI online servers if it hasnt happen already, XIV will probably become even more popular. all those XI players gonna need their Final Fantasy Online fix. and there isnt much else out there worth looking at. A lot just simply love the FF theme.world.environment. And once expansion hits next year im pretty damn sure XIV will get a lot more subs especially if they are going to bring back a lot more jobs from previous FF and rework the system a little to include the support roles.
Edit: hopefully the new expansion zones are seamless, but with PS3 limitation i highly doubt it and can only hope cause we all know Ps3 will get expansion too probably.
I don't think this is correct. If FFXI many of those players were willing to leave to play FFXIV ARR they would of probably done so already. I don't know how FFXI is now but FFXI and FFXIV ARR are different games. I tried them both and FFXI to me is more like a sandpark game than themepark.
I'll admit I didn't last long in FFXIV ARR, because after playing WoW for 2 1/2 years and SWTOR for about a year, FFXIV ARR was just the same concept and goals but made in FF skins. It wasn't something I was willing to go through again.
I was actually hoping FFXIV ARR would stick more to their FFXI roots, not in the sense of stripping away solo leveling but more in a sense that the economy was player made which meant crafting was much more relevant, which also allows other styles of meaningful game play.
Originally posted by AustrianIt's a little more than X & Y there's been a dozens of AAA themepark MMOs with all the same structures and all but two/three failed, SWTOR, WoW, and FFXIV AR. Yes SWTOR is F2P but also P2P, so maybe 2 1/2? But guess what they're all big name titles and the only ones that are very successful.
Because these were the games that implemented the same structure right. Is such a simple concept yet you're having a hard time with it. x game has dungeons, y has dungeons. On one they're fun and interesting on the other they are boring tank and spank and uninspiring. One of these is going to be more popular than the other. The fact that both games have dungeons means nothing.
Do you notice a similarity between those 3 games? Blizzard, SE and Bioware. The only MMOs which are made by developers with a huge background in the gaming industry. Is no surprise that they are popular because these companies understand gameplay mechanisms, polish and attention to detail. They're not Funcom or whatever other noname developer that you only encounter on MMOs.
Yes those three companies have gaming background history. I'll admit FFXIV ARR is pretty will rounded in terms of themepark, which does contribute to its success. But to say that if this wasn't FF game that it would still have the same success as it does now is foolish.
I was actually hoping FFXIV ARR would stick more to their FFXI roots, not in the sense of stripping away solo leveling but more in a sense that the economy was player made which meant crafting was much more relevant, which also allows other styles of meaningful game play.
The way to make crafting relevant is to allow BiS come through crafting, which means you can no-life your way to the top end of the game. Most people are not fine with that, because most people do have a life. It's not surprising SE won't do it.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
But to say that if this wasn't FF game that it would still have the same success as it does now is foolish.
I can't speak for others but give this game another name and I would still play it. There is one thing IP helps and that is exposure. The name will draw people in to try it. That is what it did for me, tried the first version of this game back then because of the name and left it in 2 days. Did the same thing when it was remade and I stuck with it.
Here you have 2 versions of the game with the same IP and theme but I left one in disgust and got obsessed with the other.
What the haters always neglect to mention is the baggage coming from 1.0 affecting the game. Other games get to start with a clean slate, while FFXIV:ARR also had to surpass the negative expectations from 1.0.
The fact is SE had to work twice as hard to get over the failure that was 1.0 and since the game is a raging success, they did in fact accomplish this. A true feat in the MMO genre, and something that doesn't happen with just IP influence and good graphics. Everyone thinking that is just living in denial.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by AustrianI was actually hoping FFXIV ARR would stick more to their FFXI roots, not in the sense of stripping away solo leveling but more in a sense that the economy was player made which meant crafting was much more relevant, which also allows other styles of meaningful game play.
The way to make crafting relevant is to allow BiS come through crafting, which means you can no-life your way to the top end of the game. Most people are not fine with that, because most people do have a life. It's not surprising SE won't do it.
Still wouldn't work well. All that does is make crafting a little more useful at the end while the 99% of the crafting is still useless (consumable tend to be a bit more useful though). In FFXI crafting was useful all the way around from level 1 or 10-65 because the economy was player driven and gear was mostly provided by crafters.
Also if crafters could only make the BiS while at the same time crafting is easy to level (which it is, or it was when I played FFXIV ARR) then the problem is that eventually crafters will not make much money as time goes on. It's like the servers first crafters. They make a ton of money early because they're the only supply but as time goes on other crafters enter the market because of low barriers to entry to crafting.
Originally posted by AustrianBut to say that if this wasn't FF game that it would still have the same success as it does now is foolish.
I can't speak for others but give this game another name and I would still play it. There is one thing IP helps and that is exposure. The name will draw people in to try it. That is what it did for me, tried the first version of this game back then because of the name and left it in 2 days. Did the same thing when it was remade and I stuck with it.
Here you have 2 versions of the game with the same IP and theme but I left one in disgust and got obsessed with the other.
Lol, I guess the opposite happened to me. I played FFXI for almost three years left FFXIV ARR after the 2nd month. I just couldn't do it, I did all that raiding, pvp, and stuff back in WoW, SWTOR, and even a little bit in FFXI.
I guess I just got burned out from the themepark cycle, especially when there was nothing else available, at least in terms of progress.
Honestly not sure why this title didn't flop. It's full of everything that has caused every other game (except WoW, and even that has lost millions of subs over the past few years) to fail or, at least, not do as well as hoped.
*Small, linear zones with invisible walls everywhere and mobs packed in so tight exploration for the sake of fun is not even possible Lots of loading screens
* Excessive grinding to level up once you've exhausted quests on your first or second job
* Generic races
* No endgame beyond raiding, raiding, raiding
* No intuitive "alternative leveling" path for people who don't enjoy raiding other than crafting
* Crafting mini-game is pretty banal - not really even as good as EQ2's crafting minigames
* Economy borked
The pros? * Pretty graphics
*Final Fantasy Name
* uhm....?
Yeah, I don't get it either. If this game had been called Save the World Reborn or Hero Journey Reborn it would have failed miserably as another "WoW-clone Asian grinder with pretty graphics". *shrug* This coming from someone who loved both vanilla WoW and vanilla FFXI
All opinion, buddy. The races aren't overly generic unless you compare them to FFXI only.
The questing is pretty bland after the first time through, but was the most fun questing I'd done since WoW first came out in 2004, the first time through.
I wouldn't say excessive grinding for alternate classes. It only takes a few days to a week max depending on how much you play per class.
There're more to end-game than just raiding if you get into more than just raiding. Dungeons, getting and upgrading your relic weapon, chocobo raising, additional storyline quests and side story quests being added, Beast Tribe dailies with more storyline stuff, Primals (which I don't consider raiding), PvP. You could also just be crafting exclusively and selling shit.
Crafting might be boring to you and me, but it has people playing it almost exclusively, and there's some story associated with it if you're into it.
Originally posted by AustrianI was actually hoping FFXIV ARR would stick more to their FFXI roots, not in the sense of stripping away solo leveling but more in a sense that the economy was player made which meant crafting was much more relevant, which also allows other styles of meaningful game play.
The way to make crafting relevant is to allow BiS come through crafting, which means you can no-life your way to the top end of the game. Most people are not fine with that, because most people do have a life. It's not surprising SE won't do it.
Still wouldn't work well. All that does is make crafting a little more useful at the end while the 99% of the crafting is still useless (consumable tend to be a bit more useful though). In FFXI crafting was useful all the way around from level 1 or 10-65 because the economy was player driven and gear was mostly provided by crafters.
Also if crafters could only make the BiS while at the same time crafting is easy to level (which it is, or it was when I played FFXIV ARR) then the problem is that eventually crafters will not make much money as time goes on. It's like the servers first crafters. They make a ton of money early because they're the only supply but as time goes on other crafters enter the market because of low barriers to entry to crafting.
Also are you suggesting that the BiS made by crafters be BoP or BoE?
I need to read your links but I don't have the time now.
Pre-50 crafters make all the BiS equipment for battle classes and getting equipment solely from dungeons is not a very reliable method. The quests only give you gear for the first playthrough, and even then crafters provide better gear. Crafters also make the best crafting and gathering gear.
FFXI wasn't really crafter-driven, at least in the level range you're talking about. Emperor's hairpin, Leaping boots, Sniper's rings, Astral rings, Life belt, monk belts, spells, etc. all came through other means. It's not really that different to XIV's 1-49 economy except players can finish the grind sooner if they choose to. At the level cap there was a lot of rare/Ex stuff but also craftable items that were neither BoP or BoE, which obviously is a bad thing for crafting and gathering.
The major difference between FFXI and FFXIV is that in FFXI you needed lots of money at the level cap (and before it) to get BiS gear, therefore no lifers with enough time to grind gil were always "superior" to others. Thus as far as I see it FFXI boils down to BiS being purchaseable while in ARR it is not. And then we get to my previous post.... SE isn't willing to let BiS be purchaseable because who honestly wants no lifers to "win" at the gear grindmill except the no lifers themselves?
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by AustrianI was actually hoping FFXIV ARR would stick more to their FFXI roots, not in the sense of stripping away solo leveling but more in a sense that the economy was player made which meant crafting was much more relevant, which also allows other styles of meaningful game play.
The way to make crafting relevant is to allow BiS come through crafting, which means you can no-life your way to the top end of the game. Most people are not fine with that, because most people do have a life. It's not surprising SE won't do it.
Still wouldn't work well. All that does is make crafting a little more useful at the end while the 99% of the crafting is still useless (consumable tend to be a bit more useful though). In FFXI crafting was useful all the way around from level 1 or 10-65 because the economy was player driven and gear was mostly provided by crafters.Also if crafters could only make the BiS while at the same time crafting is easy to level (which it is, or it was when I played FFXIV ARR) then the problem is that eventually crafters will not make much money as time goes on. It's like the servers first crafters. They make a ton of money early because they're the only supply but as time goes on other crafters enter the market because of low barriers to entry to crafting.I wrote more information on it here and hereAlso are you suggesting that the BiS made by crafters be BoP or BoE?
I need to read your links but I don't have the time now.
Pre-50 crafters make all the BiS equipment for battle classes and getting equipment solely from dungeons is not a very reliable method. The quests only give you gear for the first playthrough, and even then crafters provide better gear. Crafters also make the best crafting and gathering gear.
FFXI wasn't really crafter-driven, at least in the level range you're talking about. Emperor's hairpin, Leaping boots, Sniper's rings, Astral rings, Life belt, monk belts, spells, etc. all came through other means. It's not really that different to XIV's 1-49 economy except players can finish the grind sooner if they choose to. At the level cap there was a lot of rare/Ex stuff but also craftable items that were neither BoP or BoE, which obviously is a bad thing for crafting and gathering.
The major difference between FFXI and FFXIV is that in FFXI you needed lots of money at the level cap (and before it) to get BiS gear, therefore no lifers with enough time to grind gil were always "superior" to others. Thus as far as I see it FFXI boils down to BiS being purchaseable while in ARR it is not. And then we get to my previous post.... SE isn't willing to let BiS be purchaseable because who honestly wants no lifers to "win" at the gear grindmill except the no lifers themselves?
Actually FFXI economy was much more crafter/player driven. First off there were no drops (or very little of it I should say) nor were there quest rewards that provided you gear. Yes NM dropped items such as Leaping Lizzy and etc but they were rare, hard to find, were camped by botters, and didn't always drop the item. But those were just few items while the majority of the items came from crafters. Things like Bows, Arrows, Food, Armor, all were great alternatives to Lizzy's and the like. Many were even better if you HQed them which was where the real money was. I remember HQing the Wind Staff, the Holy Staff, X-bows, and a few other items, not to mention the consumables such as ammo and bullets were HQable as well.
As a crafter, once i hit high level I was never broke and had millions. But I remember I had to start from the bottom, first started out gathering my own mats to cheaping the cost since I or any other player couldn't make money until they were in the 60-70+ crafting skill. Once I did that I started to focus on getting to 80 then leveling up the secondary skills to increase my variety of items I could craft. Once I hit 95+ and 60 on all secondary skills I was rolling in the dough making all kind of items for the market.
As for you second comment. Of course SE isn't willing to let BiS in FFXIV ARR be purchasable because it will undermine the PVE content. The same goes for any themepark MMO. If crafters could provide the BiS gear and sell it on AH then those who don't raid could just simply buy the items off crafters thus undermining the pve content, even if they do decide to raid afterwards.
This is why crafting will NEVER be useful in a themepark game because of conflicting interest (maybe I shouldn't say never ). Devs want players to experience their content and if the rewards are reaped from other areas outside the content then players will have no need to experience the content and if they do the content would not be as difficult because they've had previously acquired the BiS already.
I love ff, to a degree. I grew up with it, in the end I got older. These days I need a big world, an open seamless area without invis walls.
I'd play the crap out of FF14 if it was an open world and had all that exploration content etc, mystery and secret mind blowing details. Other than that, ff14 looks visually great, and that's what Square likes these days.
Sadly I can play ff11 even with the invis walls, but I can't play ff14. If I can see something in the background, I want to be able to go there, like lotro or wow.
I don't like gated content, it makes me feel like 15 dollars a mth isn't enough for the company to give me an open game, in fact in todays mmos it feels like I'm getting less for the money.
!.0, 1.25, 2.0 i believed this game would pan-out to something absolutely amazing....
However, due to very poor content implementation from 2.2 and beyond, it's become 'just another mmo' with nothing unique about it what-so-ever except for fan-service. don't get me wrong other aspects of the game are impressive (music, graphics, QoL) but none of that is actual content.
Turns 1,2,4,5 of Coil were challenging at their time, but the rest ever since were pathetic.
The Relic Questline wasn't overly difficult but it at least felt like you were doing something, but it was completely abandoned in 2.2 and never returned to any questing since and only timesinks and gilsinks are 'worthy' of relic porgression.
The whole fiasco of how it supposedly took them over 6 months to prepare personal housing system when there is no personal housing 'system'; its one single housing system with a permissions adjustment that supposedly took over 6 months, LOL
Introducing a Cash Shop instead of implementing the items in-game no matter how easily it could be done. So now dev resources will go to keeping the Cash Shop appealing instead of the actual game, even though you are required to pay a subscription.
The crafting and harvesting systems were developed so poorly in ARR and resources too easily obtained that in order to give the classes value the Devs chose to gilsink and timesink the classes to where u are restricted to specific classes whether u are allowed to level them all or not. Granted you can level them all but the only use that has in the game anymore is to repair your gear (which it took them over 6 months after ARR to make self-repairs useful). But in order to actual be useful in crafting or gathering u need to overmeld your gear and push through the master recipe book gated content.
Using server capacity excuses for pretty much everything...
Boasting content for months through means such as their 'Letter Lives" and then it's always underwhelming if available to the community at large, or wealth-exclusive content. And told to yet again "Please look forward to it" for it to supposedly ever be right. The SAME "PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT" that has carried this game for the past 4 years. Shouldn't the players eventually see where something is right by now?
Ever since 2.2 the game gives more reasons for more players to leave the game every 3 months instead of giving people a reason to join or rejoin this game.
Actually FFXI economy was much more crafter/player driven. First off there were no drops (or very little of it I should say) nor were there quest rewards that provided you gear. Yes NM dropped items such as Leaping Lizzy and etc but they were rare, hard to find, were camped by botters, and didn't always drop the item. But those were just few items while the majority of the items came from crafters. Things like Bows, Arrows, Food, Armor, all were great alternatives to Lizzy's and the like. Many were even better if you HQed them which was where the real money was. I remember HQing the Wind Staff, the Holy Staff, X-bows, and a few other items, not to mention the consumables such as ammo and bullets were HQable as well.
As a crafter, once i hit high level I was never broke and had millions. But I remember I had to start from the bottom, first started out gathering my own mats to cheaping the cost since I or any other player couldn't make money until they were in the 60-70+ crafting skill. Once I did that I started to focus on getting to 80 then leveling up the secondary skills to increase my variety of items I could craft. Once I hit 95+ and 60 on all secondary skills I was rolling in the dough making all kind of items for the market.
As for you second comment. Of course SE isn't willing to let BiS in FFXIV ARR be purchasable because it will undermine the PVE content. The same goes for any themepark MMO. If crafters could provide the BiS gear and sell it on AH then those who don't raid could just simply buy the items off crafters thus undermining the pve content, even if they do decide to raid afterwards.
This is why crafting will NEVER be useful in a themepark game because of conflicting interest (maybe I shouldn't say never ). Devs want players to experience their content and if the rewards are reaped from other areas outside the content then players will have no need to experience the content and if they do the content would not be as difficult because they've had previously acquired the BiS already.
You could bypass the actual NM hunting by buying the gear from AH (money talks). While those kind of items were not that numerous they were easily the best items for a long time. Plus the actual crafting system was tailored for no lifers with the most money to spend. You could get to 60's easily but then you needed more and more dough to progress. The whole game was set up for the no lifers to excel at. Can you camp HNM's with their 3h windows? Do you have enough time to get the money to either raise your crafting skill or just buy the BiS through AH? Little to no playing skills needed, just being the best no lifer there ever was.
That said it's funny that you say no themepark allows BiS to be purchaseable. You can buy your way into BiS in FFXI - in fact for the longest time there was no other way to do it. You can't buy your way into BiS in FFXIV - that's the difference between the two games. You can always make the case that FFXI is something other than a no lifer's heaven but it always boils down to the same issue. BiS through time and money, not skill.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
!.0, 1.25, 2.0 i believed this game would pan-out to something absolutely amazing....
However, due to very poor content implementation from 2.2 and beyond, it's become 'just another mmo' with nothing unique about it what-so-ever except for fan-service. don't get me wrong other aspects of the game are impressive (music, graphics, QoL) but none of that is actual content.
Turns 1,2,4,5 of Coil were challenging at their time, but the rest ever since were pathetic.
The Relic Questline wasn't overly difficult but it at least felt like you were doing something, but it was completely abandoned in 2.2 and never returned to any questing since and only timesinks and gilsinks are 'worthy' of relic porgression.
The whole fiasco of how it supposedly took them over 6 months to prepare personal housing system when there is no personal housing 'system'; its one single housing system with a permissions adjustment that supposedly took over 6 months, LOL
Introducing a Cash Shop instead of implementing the items in-game no matter how easily it could be done. So now dev resources will go to keeping the Cash Shop appealing instead of the actual game, even though you are required to pay a subscription.
The crafting and harvesting systems were developed so poorly in ARR and resources too easily obtained that in order to give the classes value the Devs chose to gilsink and timesink the classes to where u are restricted to specific classes whether u are allowed to level them all or not. Granted you can level them all but the only use that has in the game anymore is to repair your gear (which it took them over 6 months after ARR to make self-repairs useful). But in order to actual be useful in crafting or gathering u need to overmeld your gear and push through the master recipe book gated content.
Using server capacity excuses for pretty much everything...
Boasting content for months through means such as their 'Letter Lives" and then it's always underwhelming if available to the community at large, or wealth-exclusive content. And told to yet again "Please look forward to it" for it to supposedly ever be right. The SAME "PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT" that has carried this game for the past 4 years. Shouldn't the players eventually see where something is right by now?
Ever since 2.2 the game gives more reasons for more players to leave the game every 3 months instead of giving people a reason to join or rejoin this game.
Wow you have been feeding your bad opinion for the longest time, the truth be damned. I hope you can get over this game at some point in your life.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I guess it's for people who like the IP. The amount of polish and thoughtfulness that went into this game is mind blowing. I really like the characters but the gameplay is just so...
I literally have to take a nap after playing it for an hour. It's the granny mode of mmorpg gameplay. I'm certain this game would be a real hit with my parents because they were into the whole FF thing at one point and they're the type to kind of savor storylines, atmosphere, and a slow paced but steady combat.
I imagine that there are many gamers out there just like them. They're kind of old school, they like the IP, they like the amazingly optimized graphics, they like the ultra-simple-but-still-allows-for-a-little customization of classes.
I guess it's for people who like the IP. The amount of polish and thoughtfulness that went into this game is mind blowing. I really like the characters but the gameplay is just so...
I literally have to take a nap after playing it for an hour. It's the granny mode of mmorpg gameplay.
Few Coil T9's, maybe a Coil T13 and then it's time for a nap, amirite?
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
You are also ignoring the fact that BiS in FFXIV is hard-coded a 6 month lifespan and will never be useful beyond those 6 months and then its like starting all over again.
In FFXI some BiS carried through for years of content. Yes, they were severely sunk in timesinks/gilsinks but they kept their utility.
BiS is RNG always in FFXIV not really requiring skill but instead static dodge mechanic memorization, with gear slightly lower literally just handed to you requiring time (only because of forced lockout) and no skill. And then every 6 months the gear is completely undesirable.
The other falling out in FFXIV i forgot to mention is how stupid it is that progression gear is literally handed to you in ARR but yet Vanity aspects of the game are incredibly difficult to obtain. Some of which are standards in most mmo's, like housing.
In FFXI some BiS carried through for years of content. Yes, they were severely sunk in timesinks/gilsinks but they kept their utility.
BiS is RNG always in FFXIV not really requiring skill but instead static dodge mechanic memorization, with gear slightly lower literally just handed to you requiring time (only because of forced lockout) and no skill. And then every 6 months the gear is completely undesirable.
The other falling out in FFXIV i forgot to mention is how stupid it is that progression gear is literally handed to you in ARR but yet Vanity aspects of the game are incredibly difficult to obtain. Some of which are standards in most mmo's, like housing.
Good luck coming to FFXI after taking a break. "Welcome! Oh by the way, you will never be able to catch up to the people who never took a break. I hope that's okay, I mean, taking a break is not allowed here."
Your breakdown of FFXIV skill is good too. Playing the piano is just static key memorization too. Not very impressive.
"Housing is standard in most mmo's". -yolteotl79
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
A german suplex? What about it?
SE makes really good games. FFXI did really well for a really long time despite having something people generally hate- persistant forced grouping. Why? Because it was really well made and the graphics were top notch for the time.
FFXIV isn't innovative but again it's really well made and the graphics are amazing for the resources it uses (rift taxes my machine more and looks 1/2 as good).
People have been trying to innovate the MMO for awhile and it usually fails. I'd like to see a big name like SE try to do it, but there's generally problems. Like Archeage for example- because the game revolves around open-world pvp, zerg guilds basically control entire servers and make it unfun for anyone not in them (not to mention the hacks/bugs).
Hardly! Behold the goldsmith limit break, performable only by Godbert, King of Primals!
But the real point was just that I love the Hildibrand stuff in the game.
I stopped reading when you basically said you hate conventional MMOs; it was no longer a post about FFXIV at that stage - it was a post about how you made most MMOs.
I played FFXIV while I was living in Japan. It was a pretty solid experience and I had looked forward to playing when I returned to Europe.. yeah.. only to find I had to now play with 130-200 ping on Canadian servers (European servers apparently) vs my 5-10 ping I had in Japan.
Until they host actual EU servers, there's plenty of other options out there for me.
The game has 100 ping by default, so the difference is not that large.
Personally, I think its a combination of things...
1.) Great Polish - If its one thing people like (whether its a good or bad things how much its pushed alot) its the polish. FF14 does a great job having characters that are very visually appealing. The graphics have a great aesthetic, one that is done so quite efficiently as well. It allows for it to run smoothly for more people and it looks great in the process.
2.) Satisfying combat (Weight of Combat) - This is one thing that is often neglected. FF14 really emphasizing weight with players and their abilities more then most. A big issue with combat is often a more slippery feel to it. FF14 forces the player to stand still, to give their attacks a lot more visual power behind it that makes it much more satisfying. Its a slower pace, but it really makes attacks feel meaningful. As much as people tend to blind sightedly claim for mobility, its often those same people who will find a liking in the feel for combat that holds a more solid feel behind it. It won't appeal to EVERY player of course, but its really an element that strengthens the game.
3.) Class Variety - This doesn't just include the number of jobs, but also what they can all potentially do. The game follows a more traditional tank/heal/damage basis, however there is elements of support mixed in. Bards in particular have a big emphasis on this support element that cakes in well with the gameplay. Classes typically can contribute various elements which give team synergy to increase the feeling of teamwork in the game, without being all that disruptive to accomplishing it.
4.) Execution Matters - For a game that is more slow paced with its abilities, its easy to mistake it for giving more time to react. This isn't the case at all. FF14 really requires players to execute their abilities and movement correctly to do well. A mistake in positioning can greatly hurt and potentially even kill a player for their own slip ups. This really creates a feeling of challenge that to often is glossed over in other games.
5.) The Music and Sound effects - I will state it might be a little 'cheatsy' as some music is just repackaged final fantasy music. None the less, the soundtrack is amazing. It does a great job of inspiring a sense of atmosphere matching the gameplay. Its an MMo that for once I actually keep the sounds and effects on a good majority of the time. This really can get a player to become involved in the setting a lot more. Good audio is a big factor in drawing people into any media, and in a game it perhaps can be more so.
6.) Story - I'll admit, it can be a bit cheesy at times, but its actually quite good for an online game. It does a good job of developing story and plot. In particular, it gives a real 'epic' feel about the story, many elements being done without even needing to fully expose themselves to the player.Finishing the main storyline for me gave a real epic feeling, something that doesn't usually become invoked in me in most games, and it didn't even need to be for the sense of beating some hard boss. It takes a lot to really give value to doing something without needing it to be the most challenging content in the world.
7.) Raiding/Dungeons - People still enjoy these... this is were challenge comes from. Its silly when people claim 'they aren't any good'. Its the element that tends to allow for games to have any sense of difficulty to them. It really pushes team work to accomplish them, many mechanics relying on the group to work together to accomplish tasks. Its partly going onto my point of execution, but I think just the sheer design and intrigue of the raids and dungeons being able to give such an 'epic' feel really contributes to peoples enjoyment of playing through them.
8.) Its Final Fantasy - Alright... not a very good reason but I had to include it. Its more then likely a factor as to why people enjoy it. I'll guiltily admit it does add to the game for me.
9.) Crafting - Yeah... a crafting system were its leveled much like combat classes with some depth involved. It really makes the experience much more interesting to do. Some people won't like the more work you need to put in to accomplish it, while those die hards out there might think its not complex enough. For a good majority of people though I think it fights the right balance of having more complexity to it without being overly bogged down in accomplishing it.
Honestly, you mention more to do outside the regular stuff... its something that I'm not quite sure how to respond to. Most MMos ARE mostly about such things and yet people enjoy and play them. I'm not really certain why people need more things, at least primary things. Of course, the game does have things like housing, story elements and just general time wasting activites, all of which do allow for you to occupy your time playing through them. I never got why people need more variety just tossed in your face in excess to 'warrent' a game, such things shouldn't even be a big deal outside extra time wasting, usually added as the game grows older and advances.
Hildibrand, Nashu, Godbert, and whomever else in that clan need their own game. I'd buy it. No question.
I don't think this is correct. If FFXI many of those players were willing to leave to play FFXIV ARR they would of probably done so already. I don't know how FFXI is now but FFXI and FFXIV ARR are different games. I tried them both and FFXI to me is more like a sandpark game than themepark.
I'll admit I didn't last long in FFXIV ARR, because after playing WoW for 2 1/2 years and SWTOR for about a year, FFXIV ARR was just the same concept and goals but made in FF skins. It wasn't something I was willing to go through again.
I was actually hoping FFXIV ARR would stick more to their FFXI roots, not in the sense of stripping away solo leveling but more in a sense that the economy was player made which meant crafting was much more relevant, which also allows other styles of meaningful game play.
Check out this article on Why Crafting Sucks
Yes those three companies have gaming background history. I'll admit FFXIV ARR is pretty will rounded in terms of themepark, which does contribute to its success. But to say that if this wasn't FF game that it would still have the same success as it does now is foolish.
Check out this article on Why Crafting Sucks
The way to make crafting relevant is to allow BiS come through crafting, which means you can no-life your way to the top end of the game. Most people are not fine with that, because most people do have a life. It's not surprising SE won't do it.
I can't speak for others but give this game another name and I would still play it. There is one thing IP helps and that is exposure. The name will draw people in to try it. That is what it did for me, tried the first version of this game back then because of the name and left it in 2 days. Did the same thing when it was remade and I stuck with it.
Here you have 2 versions of the game with the same IP and theme but I left one in disgust and got obsessed with the other.
What the haters always neglect to mention is the baggage coming from 1.0 affecting the game. Other games get to start with a clean slate, while FFXIV:ARR also had to surpass the negative expectations from 1.0.
The fact is SE had to work twice as hard to get over the failure that was 1.0 and since the game is a raging success, they did in fact accomplish this. A true feat in the MMO genre, and something that doesn't happen with just IP influence and good graphics. Everyone thinking that is just living in denial.
Still wouldn't work well. All that does is make crafting a little more useful at the end while the 99% of the crafting is still useless (consumable tend to be a bit more useful though). In FFXI crafting was useful all the way around from level 1 or 10-65 because the economy was player driven and gear was mostly provided by crafters.
Also if crafters could only make the BiS while at the same time crafting is easy to level (which it is, or it was when I played FFXIV ARR) then the problem is that eventually crafters will not make much money as time goes on. It's like the servers first crafters. They make a ton of money early because they're the only supply but as time goes on other crafters enter the market because of low barriers to entry to crafting.
I wrote more information on it here and here
Also are you suggesting that the BiS made by crafters be BoP or BoE?
Check out this article on Why Crafting Sucks
Lol, I guess the opposite happened to me. I played FFXI for almost three years left FFXIV ARR after the 2nd month. I just couldn't do it, I did all that raiding, pvp, and stuff back in WoW, SWTOR, and even a little bit in FFXI.
I guess I just got burned out from the themepark cycle, especially when there was nothing else available, at least in terms of progress.
Check out this article on Why Crafting Sucks
All opinion, buddy. The races aren't overly generic unless you compare them to FFXI only.
The questing is pretty bland after the first time through, but was the most fun questing I'd done since WoW first came out in 2004, the first time through.
I wouldn't say excessive grinding for alternate classes. It only takes a few days to a week max depending on how much you play per class.
There're more to end-game than just raiding if you get into more than just raiding. Dungeons, getting and upgrading your relic weapon, chocobo raising, additional storyline quests and side story quests being added, Beast Tribe dailies with more storyline stuff, Primals (which I don't consider raiding), PvP. You could also just be crafting exclusively and selling shit.
Crafting might be boring to you and me, but it has people playing it almost exclusively, and there's some story associated with it if you're into it.
Plus the pretty graphics and Final Fantasy name.
I need to read your links but I don't have the time now.
Pre-50 crafters make all the BiS equipment for battle classes and getting equipment solely from dungeons is not a very reliable method. The quests only give you gear for the first playthrough, and even then crafters provide better gear. Crafters also make the best crafting and gathering gear.
FFXI wasn't really crafter-driven, at least in the level range you're talking about. Emperor's hairpin, Leaping boots, Sniper's rings, Astral rings, Life belt, monk belts, spells, etc. all came through other means. It's not really that different to XIV's 1-49 economy except players can finish the grind sooner if they choose to. At the level cap there was a lot of rare/Ex stuff but also craftable items that were neither BoP or BoE, which obviously is a bad thing for crafting and gathering.
The major difference between FFXI and FFXIV is that in FFXI you needed lots of money at the level cap (and before it) to get BiS gear, therefore no lifers with enough time to grind gil were always "superior" to others. Thus as far as I see it FFXI boils down to BiS being purchaseable while in ARR it is not. And then we get to my previous post.... SE isn't willing to let BiS be purchaseable because who honestly wants no lifers to "win" at the gear grindmill except the no lifers themselves?
Actually FFXI economy was much more crafter/player driven. First off there were no drops (or very little of it I should say) nor were there quest rewards that provided you gear. Yes NM dropped items such as Leaping Lizzy and etc but they were rare, hard to find, were camped by botters, and didn't always drop the item. But those were just few items while the majority of the items came from crafters. Things like Bows, Arrows, Food, Armor, all were great alternatives to Lizzy's and the like. Many were even better if you HQed them which was where the real money was. I remember HQing the Wind Staff, the Holy Staff, X-bows, and a few other items, not to mention the consumables such as ammo and bullets were HQable as well.
As a crafter, once i hit high level I was never broke and had millions. But I remember I had to start from the bottom, first started out gathering my own mats to cheaping the cost since I or any other player couldn't make money until they were in the 60-70+ crafting skill. Once I did that I started to focus on getting to 80 then leveling up the secondary skills to increase my variety of items I could craft. Once I hit 95+ and 60 on all secondary skills I was rolling in the dough making all kind of items for the market.
As for you second comment. Of course SE isn't willing to let BiS in FFXIV ARR be purchasable because it will undermine the PVE content. The same goes for any themepark MMO. If crafters could provide the BiS gear and sell it on AH then those who don't raid could just simply buy the items off crafters thus undermining the pve content, even if they do decide to raid afterwards.
This is why crafting will NEVER be useful in a themepark game because of conflicting interest (maybe I shouldn't say never
). Devs want players to experience their content and if the rewards are reaped from other areas outside the content then players will have no need to experience the content and if they do the content would not be as difficult because they've had previously acquired the BiS already.
Check out this article on Why Crafting Sucks
I love ff, to a degree. I grew up with it, in the end I got older. These days I need a big world, an open seamless area without invis walls.
I'd play the crap out of FF14 if it was an open world and had all that exploration content etc, mystery and secret mind blowing details. Other than that, ff14 looks visually great, and that's what Square likes these days.
Sadly I can play ff11 even with the invis walls, but I can't play ff14. If I can see something in the background, I want to be able to go there, like lotro or wow.
I don't like gated content, it makes me feel like 15 dollars a mth isn't enough for the company to give me an open game, in fact in todays mmos it feels like I'm getting less for the money.
I USED to find FFXIV enjoyable.
!.0, 1.25, 2.0 i believed this game would pan-out to something absolutely amazing....
However, due to very poor content implementation from 2.2 and beyond, it's become 'just another mmo' with nothing unique about it what-so-ever except for fan-service. don't get me wrong other aspects of the game are impressive (music, graphics, QoL) but none of that is actual content.
Turns 1,2,4,5 of Coil were challenging at their time, but the rest ever since were pathetic.
The Relic Questline wasn't overly difficult but it at least felt like you were doing something, but it was completely abandoned in 2.2 and never returned to any questing since and only timesinks and gilsinks are 'worthy' of relic porgression.
The whole fiasco of how it supposedly took them over 6 months to prepare personal housing system when there is no personal housing 'system'; its one single housing system with a permissions adjustment that supposedly took over 6 months, LOL
Introducing a Cash Shop instead of implementing the items in-game no matter how easily it could be done. So now dev resources will go to keeping the Cash Shop appealing instead of the actual game, even though you are required to pay a subscription.
The crafting and harvesting systems were developed so poorly in ARR and resources too easily obtained that in order to give the classes value the Devs chose to gilsink and timesink the classes to where u are restricted to specific classes whether u are allowed to level them all or not. Granted you can level them all but the only use that has in the game anymore is to repair your gear (which it took them over 6 months after ARR to make self-repairs useful). But in order to actual be useful in crafting or gathering u need to overmeld your gear and push through the master recipe book gated content.
Using server capacity excuses for pretty much everything...
Boasting content for months through means such as their 'Letter Lives" and then it's always underwhelming if available to the community at large, or wealth-exclusive content. And told to yet again "Please look forward to it" for it to supposedly ever be right. The SAME "PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT" that has carried this game for the past 4 years. Shouldn't the players eventually see where something is right by now?
Ever since 2.2 the game gives more reasons for more players to leave the game every 3 months instead of giving people a reason to join or rejoin this game.
You could bypass the actual NM hunting by buying the gear from AH (money talks). While those kind of items were not that numerous they were easily the best items for a long time. Plus the actual crafting system was tailored for no lifers with the most money to spend. You could get to 60's easily but then you needed more and more dough to progress. The whole game was set up for the no lifers to excel at. Can you camp HNM's with their 3h windows? Do you have enough time to get the money to either raise your crafting skill or just buy the BiS through AH? Little to no playing skills needed, just being the best no lifer there ever was.
That said it's funny that you say no themepark allows BiS to be purchaseable. You can buy your way into BiS in FFXI - in fact for the longest time there was no other way to do it. You can't buy your way into BiS in FFXIV - that's the difference between the two games. You can always make the case that FFXI is something other than a no lifer's heaven but it always boils down to the same issue. BiS through time and money, not skill.
Wow you have been feeding your bad opinion for the longest time, the truth be damned. I hope you can get over this game at some point in your life.
I guess it's for people who like the IP. The amount of polish and thoughtfulness that went into this game is mind blowing. I really like the characters but the gameplay is just so...
I literally have to take a nap after playing it for an hour. It's the granny mode of mmorpg gameplay. I'm certain this game would be a real hit with my parents because they were into the whole FF thing at one point and they're the type to kind of savor storylines, atmosphere, and a slow paced but steady combat.
I imagine that there are many gamers out there just like them. They're kind of old school, they like the IP, they like the amazingly optimized graphics, they like the ultra-simple-but-still-allows-for-a-little customization of classes.
Few Coil T9's, maybe a Coil T13 and then it's time for a nap, amirite?
You are also ignoring the fact that BiS in FFXIV is hard-coded a 6 month lifespan and will never be useful beyond those 6 months and then its like starting all over again.
In FFXI some BiS carried through for years of content. Yes, they were severely sunk in timesinks/gilsinks but they kept their utility.
BiS is RNG always in FFXIV not really requiring skill but instead static dodge mechanic memorization, with gear slightly lower literally just handed to you requiring time (only because of forced lockout) and no skill. And then every 6 months the gear is completely undesirable.
The other falling out in FFXIV i forgot to mention is how stupid it is that progression gear is literally handed to you in ARR but yet Vanity aspects of the game are incredibly difficult to obtain. Some of which are standards in most mmo's, like housing.
Good luck coming to FFXI after taking a break. "Welcome! Oh by the way, you will never be able to catch up to the people who never took a break. I hope that's okay, I mean, taking a break is not allowed here."
Your breakdown of FFXIV skill is good too. Playing the piano is just static key memorization too. Not very impressive.
"Housing is standard in most mmo's". -yolteotl79