Well I'm with you Op, that I doubt I will ever go back to WOW. Although some of your reasons why aren't particularly why I won't go back.
My main reasons for not going back are purely the popularity of the game. Some folks might wonder, "Why the hell is that? Isn't that a good thing when a game is popular?" and I would agree it is. However, with Blizzard it hit such a popularity that it changed the entire direction of the game.
From the game I loved from Alpha - Burning Crusade it was great and populated, but after that the game just took this direction towards instant gratification. It was a slow process and I still played up until a couple months before MOP, with a couple breaks mixed in, but eventually everything was Que this or Que that. They took out a lot of the socialization needed to do many things.
Not to mention, with the inclusion of the instant gratification mindset, you then changed the attitudes of much of the player base. From folks that were in guilds/raids with friends that then changed to your Noob and Elitists guilds. Where if you wanted to complete a raid and didn't have a guild that was working on it, you either needed to turn into a Elitist and have the best armor, spec, enchantments etc etc or you would deal with a bunch of noobs in the Que system, dieing multiple times and not completing content.
Now I played on Illidan from the start of alpha to when I quit. (Stayed there cause it was originally the alpha/beta server) In any case I made many friends in some of the top end guilds and these aren't the folks I'm referring too even though I knew some of them. It was more with the pick up scene and small guilds. I was never a "Top End" player, but I was in a relatively good guild that completed almost all of the hardmodes and normal raids. However once I didn't have a guild to join (One where multiple friends were in cause most stopped playing) I just did the Que raids or get into some guilds public raids and it just wasn't worth it.
Now some folks might say, "There is more to WOW then raids..." which is absolutely true, but all of my characters were at the point, especially after the multiple years I played the game. A lot of my reason for leaving was not having my friends to play with and I know that. My entire point though is that I couldn't stay with the game solo cause of how they made everything insta que and that changed the landscape player wise cause folks either would take ANYONE or you needed the best of the best gear and what not to join a guild that could consistently clear bosses. This is all just my experience and I don't expect everyone to have the same, but I figured I would put what made me leave.
Originally posted by Cramit845However, with Blizzard it hit such a popularity that it changed the entire direction of the game.
I could have more summarized my post up with this line which is true.
It seems like the more popular WoW got, the more Blizzard just kept piling on the spoonfeeding mechanics which ultimately ruined any depth the game ever had....
All those new ,mmorpg ,, are crapy action bassed SP+MP games ,seems WOW ruling in genre , still
If you've never played WoW before it'll definitely be worth a go.
I think a lot of posters here misunderstood my post as just flaming the game. WoW has a lot of things going for it, I just cant get back into because I see it has no depth at all after you've "leveled" which even this aspect has become trivial.
All progression in WoW becomes very trivial very fast when you see people using refer a friend or getting boosted to endgame instantly. why even bother having the leveling to begin with? Just release the expansion with the instances and nix leveling all together since that's what the game has essentially been doing for the past 2 expansions....
The game just got very confused the more popular it got....
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again. )
Indeed. The argument only persists because people ignore the true definition of things, and instead apply their own opinion of what they think it should be.
Agreed, including the people saying it definitely was never a sandbox...
The people coming in and responding their opinions to every single number the OP posted, attempting to disprove them.
Even if they were far off, it's still an opinion. Regardless of how wrong it can be!
And ironically you're doing the exact same thing.
Also, most of the people who responded before you that were responding to the OP ended with "i respect your opinion, but i don't agree with them" or something to that effect. Since when are people not allowed to give reasons why they think someones opinion is wrong?
You act like they were demonizing him or just saying he was wrong and leaving it at that.
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again. )
Indeed. The argument only persists because people ignore the true definition of things, and instead apply their own opinion of what they think it should be.
Agreed, including the people saying it definitely was never a sandbox...
Stop trying to claim WoW was once a sandbox. It never was a sandbox. Never. It has always been a themepark.
It's always had instanced dungeons/raids. It's always had instanced pvp as well as open world pvp. It's always had the same quest grind to level up. The classes could only be built a specific way and you couldn't have much variation back in the early days. To say WoW was ever a sandbox is to be ignorant.
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again. )
Indeed. The argument only persists because people ignore the true definition of things, and instead apply their own opinion of what they think it should be.
Agreed, including the people saying it definitely was never a sandbox...
Stop trying to claim WoW was once a sandbox. It never was a sandbox. Never. It has always been a themepark.
It's always had instanced dungeons/raids. It's always had instanced pvp as well as open world pvp. It's always had the same quest grind to level up. The classes could only be built a specific way and you couldn't have much variation back in the early days. To say WoW was ever a sandbox is to be ignorant.
You are wasting your time. He was even dishonest while copy pasting the definition of sandbox just to make a point. he conveniently cut off half the definition.. that is how desperate he is.
only reason ill play wow for a month or so is cause there is no good mmos out there,waiting for skyforge and the repopulation and I played hundreds of hours dark souls 2 if bloodborne was out I would not even have bothered with any mmos.
Yep seph, it's a themepark, blizzard calls it a themepark, players call it a themepark, by any definition if Is a themepark. Open world is not sandbox, games like eve and archage are sandboxes.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again. )
Indeed. The argument only persists because people ignore the true definition of things, and instead apply their own opinion of what they think it should be.
Agreed, including the people saying it definitely was never a sandbox...
Stop trying to claim WoW was once a sandbox. It never was a sandbox. Never. It has always been a themepark.
It's always had instanced dungeons/raids. It's always had instanced pvp as well as open world pvp. It's always had the same quest grind to level up. The classes could only be built a specific way and you couldn't have much variation back in the early days. To say WoW was ever a sandbox is to be ignorant.
The overall world was a sandbox though. Sandbox just meant you had an open, noninstanced-linear world to traverse, in which WoW was at a point. You had quests, but you didnt have to do them.
It's definitely transformed into a theme park, now it is a theme park. But original WoW was plenty sandbox in the sense you could play the game as an open world sandbox without going through any of the linear quests.
Having said that, I'm not going to bother arguing any more points on the matter since it's clear every person on here has a different version in their own mind of what a sandbox game is...
That's not what sandbox means. There are sandboxes that do not offer huge open worlds. There are well known stickies threads that describe sandboxes in the forum, or wiki and many other places. A simple description is that a sandbox provides an environment and rules and lets playe drivn emergent play flourish, a themepark provides a path and a stream of develops driven content.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Satsunoryu Been said over and over again, but it's worth saying again. WoW was never a sandbox, and is and always has been the definition of a themepark.
No, it's not worth saying again.
No one will ever agree on what a sandbox is so the discussion is pointless.
Sandbox = player driven world. Themepark = more fluff than a marshmallow.
WoW has always been a themepark. OOPS I said it again. )
Indeed. The argument only persists because people ignore the true definition of things, and instead apply their own opinion of what they think it should be.
Agreed, including the people saying it definitely was never a sandbox...
Stop trying to claim WoW was once a sandbox. It never was a sandbox. Never. It has always been a themepark.
It's always had instanced dungeons/raids. It's always had instanced pvp as well as open world pvp. It's always had the same quest grind to level up. The classes could only be built a specific way and you couldn't have much variation back in the early days. To say WoW was ever a sandbox is to be ignorant.
The overall world was a sandbox though. Sandbox just meant you had an open, noninstanced-linear world to traverse, in which WoW was at a point. You had quests, but you didnt have to do them.
It's definitely transformed into a theme park, now it is a theme park. But original WoW was plenty sandbox in the sense you could play the game as an open world sandbox without going through any of the linear quests.
Having said that, I'm not going to bother arguing any more points on the matter since it's clear every person on here has a different version in their own mind of what a sandbox game is...
Sandbox does not mean an open, noninstanced world. You act like you can just pick 1 single feature from 'X' game that sandbox game 'Y' has, and call that game 'X' a sandbox. That isn't how it works. A sandbox game for instance can have some instanced content and still be a sandbox game.
Terms like Sandbox and Themepark are not a rigid set of features and if a game has a feature not on the list, then its not so and so. That's now how it works. Sandbox/Themepark are styles of game development. A sandbox is more centered around giving players choices and more control over how the world is shaped and how they want to play the game. A themepark is more centered around giving players an exciting ride, where even though most of the core choices are made for them already and they're essentially going along a pre-determined ride, its still fun as shit.
This is what it means to be a Sandbox and Themepark, not whatever ignorant idea you have. Anyway, if after this you refuse to see reason, then i won't bother to waste any more time trying to educate you.
Originally posted by Bladestrom That's not what sandbox means. There are sandboxes that do not offer huge open worlds. There are well known stickies threads that describe sandboxes in the forum, or wiki and many other places. A simple description is that a sandbox provides an environment and rules and lets playe drivn emergent play flourish, a themepark provides a path and a stream of develops driven content.
The OP seems very stubborn, one of those folks that even when they are wrong will always be right. He apparently got open world mixed up with sandbox at the beginning of his discussion and just won't admit it.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I'm glad you posted that. It shows just how limitless the term "sandbox" truly is to many different people.
Not sure who was crowned the grand vizier of what constitutes a Sandbox game, I'd love to see it.
I' ve always understood sandbox game to mean, a game you can enter and pretty much do whatever you want without following a linear path. WoW being open world would be that....
Really crying over Level Boosts? Ok. I dont know about you, but there are still PLENTY of people who level to 90 and still dont know anything about their class and/or specs. Its been like that for years. Heck, I had a level 80 tank earlier today in full loom cloth wondering why he's taking so much damage. His exact words were "Man, what the heck is going on? I thought heirloom was supposed to scale up properly." As for the rest of your stuff, I dont really care. But anyway, you're only one against like 5+ million people who like the game? I'm sure blizzard wont miss your money. They probably dont miss mine since I only sub like 3-4 times out of the year max
I'm glad you posted that. It shows just how limitless the term "sandbox" truly is to many different people.
Not sure who was crowned the grand vizier of what constitutes a Sandbox game, I'd love to see it.
I' ve always understood sandbox game to mean, a game you can enter and pretty much do whatever you want without following a linear path. WoW being open world would be that....
No, WoW is an open world game, not a sandbox game.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I'm glad you posted that. It shows just how limitless the term "sandbox" truly is to many different people.
Not sure who was crowned the grand vizier of what constitutes a Sandbox game, I'd love to see it.
I' ve always understood sandbox game to mean, a game you can enter and pretty much do whatever you want without following a linear path. WoW being open world would be that....
No, WoW is an open world game, not a sandbox game.
A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish.
A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.
I'm glad you posted that. It shows just how limitless the term "sandbox" truly is to many different people.
Not sure who was crowned the grand vizier of what constitutes a Sandbox game, I'd love to see it.
I' ve always understood sandbox game to mean, a game you can enter and pretty much do whatever you want without following a linear path. WoW being open world would be that....
No, WoW is an open world game, not a sandbox game.
A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish.
A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.
Do you not even read the very things you yourself post?
Point 1 - "A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will."
Point 2- "Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels"
Point 2 is describing themepark games with segmented areas and numbered levels while the 2nd half of the sentence which goes into point 3 is describing sandbox games. You can have a seamless world but still have segmented areas btw.
Point 3- "a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish."
Key term in point 2 being USUALLY.
I admit, i wrote this because I thought you were disagreeing with Amjoco but the way you worded certain things made me not 100% sure. So in case I was wrong and you weren't disagreeing with Amjoco by saying WoW is a sandbox then disregard all this.
I'm glad you posted that. It shows just how limitless the term "sandbox" truly is to many different people.
Not sure who was crowned the grand vizier of what constitutes a Sandbox game, I'd love to see it.
I' ve always understood sandbox game to mean, a game you can enter and pretty much do whatever you want without following a linear path. WoW being open world would be that....
No, WoW is an open world game, not a sandbox game.
A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish.
A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.
Yes, a sandbox game can be open world or free roaming just as like WoW. WoW has segmented areas (zones) and numbered levels (level 1-90), therefore it isn't a sandbox game. WoW is an open world themepark.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I'm glad you posted that. It shows just how limitless the term "sandbox" truly is to many different people.
Not sure who was crowned the grand vizier of what constitutes a Sandbox game, I'd love to see it.
I' ve always understood sandbox game to mean, a game you can enter and pretty much do whatever you want without following a linear path. WoW being open world would be that....
No, WoW is an open world game, not a sandbox game.
A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish.
A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.
Do you not even read the very things you yourself post?
Point 1 - "A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will."
Point 2- "Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels"
Point 2 is describing themepark games with segmented areas and numbered levels while the 2nd half of the sentence which goes into point 3 is describing sandbox games. You can have a seamless world but still have segmented areas btw.
Point 3- "a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish."
Key term in point 2 being USUALLY.
I admit, i wrote this because I thought you were disagreeing with Amjoco but the way you worded certain things made me not 100% sure. So in case I was wrong and you weren't disagreeing with Amjoco by saying WoW is a sandbox then disregard all this.
Thumbs up! You broke that down much better than me.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Once upon a time an RPG was a sandbox when the level restrictions within the game were removed. No item levels, no monster levels, no quest levels, no zone levels. You could start the game and had access to everything in the game without having to level a character first.
They were usually done as mods that could be ordered from the devs, or were packaged within the game as a an option that could be enabled, like a cheat.
What a sandbox is has changed over the years as know-it-alls make up their own definition in an effort to be more right than the next guy. Because, you know, garys mod invented the sandbox genre.
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones Remember players selling fully geared toons on eBay for some serious cash? I met a few in game; they knew zilch about HOW to play their class. I would suspect that's one of the 'boosted' level 90's will be experiencing the same thing. Then again, Blizz has simplified the mechanics so much that it shouldn't be too hard to pick up. Will make for some interesting drama in any event.
Fixed.
Fixed?
If you think it's difficult to master any of the available classes, you might want to think again. It might be difficult for you, on a personal level, but for the majority it certainly isn't.
I'm a multi season top 5 percentile glad, and I can teach any competent player to get to that same level in a very, very short period of time.
Your own incompetence is just that: your own. Take note.
1. Level boosting by Blizzard. This can be attached to the recruit a friend system as well. I guess Blizzard doesnt seem to understand that when you level everyone up to level 90, you're basically stepping on everyone else who spent hours and hours leveling to 90 by actually fighting mobs, questing, etc.....They've basically devalued leveling or any progression in WoW. What's the point in leveling if everyone else is just going to be free boosted there? I might as well just wait til next expansion to even it up, or better yet not play at all...
I'm back in the game after quitting at the end of BC. Came back for WoTLK, took my time leveling up but left after 3 months and having dipped just my toes in the raiding waters. I had seen enough, was pretty blasé about getting back to raiding and just left.
They have not devalued leveling, contrary to popular belief. I should know, I'm sloooowly leveling up as there's so much that has changed and I want to experience everything as if I were new to the game.
Every step of the way I'm finding people everywhere. I do mean everywhere. Underwater? Yep. In some remote area of Darkshore? Yep. On some mountain top? Yep.
Everyone boosted free? It's just one boost. Many people have copious amounts of alts.
There's so much content that I fully understand if someone wants to get it over with faster.
2. Instances, instances, instances. When WoW first came out it was an excellent sandbox. Now it's just a game of instance hopping, instant travel. You can even group up cross server and escape any pvp, or even use it to grief.
Sandbox? Can't believe you wrote that.
I hate the instant porting to instances too.
3. CrossServer everything basically kills off your server drama, guilding, pvpiing, etc... Running over some random for honor points will never be as fun as getting to kill the annoying server brat.
I agree but it's for the best of all the servers. No one can complain about low population or population fluctuations anymore.
4. Microtransactions from a company that said they would never do it.
*shrugs* Everyone now knows to take whatever these companies say with a grain of salt. At some point I expect game publishers nowadays to try anything shady to make me shell out more money. Doesn't excuse them but it's a collective thing. If we all just gave them the middle finger then maybe the tides would slowly turn. Slowly.
5. No Crafting in any form that's interesting. I can play free games now with superior crafting.
I understand leaving the game for a game with deeper crafting. EvE, Life is Feudal, etc.
So I cant say I'm surprised that the new expansion has been really lackluster and probably not even close to the numbers of previous expansions. I only just now saw they had a new expansion out.
Blizzard took an epic experience and tried to milk, milk, milk it by making it more shallow for every LCD to play. Now you have it here, a dying empire.
Dying empire? Every game out there right now is signing up to become this moribund.
Comments
Well I'm with you Op, that I doubt I will ever go back to WOW. Although some of your reasons why aren't particularly why I won't go back.
My main reasons for not going back are purely the popularity of the game. Some folks might wonder, "Why the hell is that? Isn't that a good thing when a game is popular?" and I would agree it is. However, with Blizzard it hit such a popularity that it changed the entire direction of the game.
From the game I loved from Alpha - Burning Crusade it was great and populated, but after that the game just took this direction towards instant gratification. It was a slow process and I still played up until a couple months before MOP, with a couple breaks mixed in, but eventually everything was Que this or Que that. They took out a lot of the socialization needed to do many things.
Not to mention, with the inclusion of the instant gratification mindset, you then changed the attitudes of much of the player base. From folks that were in guilds/raids with friends that then changed to your Noob and Elitists guilds. Where if you wanted to complete a raid and didn't have a guild that was working on it, you either needed to turn into a Elitist and have the best armor, spec, enchantments etc etc or you would deal with a bunch of noobs in the Que system, dieing multiple times and not completing content.
Now I played on Illidan from the start of alpha to when I quit. (Stayed there cause it was originally the alpha/beta server) In any case I made many friends in some of the top end guilds and these aren't the folks I'm referring too even though I knew some of them. It was more with the pick up scene and small guilds. I was never a "Top End" player, but I was in a relatively good guild that completed almost all of the hardmodes and normal raids. However once I didn't have a guild to join (One where multiple friends were in cause most stopped playing) I just did the Que raids or get into some guilds public raids and it just wasn't worth it.
Now some folks might say, "There is more to WOW then raids..." which is absolutely true, but all of my characters were at the point, especially after the multiple years I played the game. A lot of my reason for leaving was not having my friends to play with and I know that. My entire point though is that I couldn't stay with the game solo cause of how they made everything insta que and that changed the landscape player wise cause folks either would take ANYONE or you needed the best of the best gear and what not to join a guild that could consistently clear bosses. This is all just my experience and I don't expect everyone to have the same, but I figured I would put what made me leave.
I could have more summarized my post up with this line which is true.
It seems like the more popular WoW got, the more Blizzard just kept piling on the spoonfeeding mechanics which ultimately ruined any depth the game ever had....
If you've never played WoW before it'll definitely be worth a go.
I think a lot of posters here misunderstood my post as just flaming the game. WoW has a lot of things going for it, I just cant get back into because I see it has no depth at all after you've "leveled" which even this aspect has become trivial.
All progression in WoW becomes very trivial very fast when you see people using refer a friend or getting boosted to endgame instantly. why even bother having the leveling to begin with? Just release the expansion with the instances and nix leveling all together since that's what the game has essentially been doing for the past 2 expansions....
The game just got very confused the more popular it got....
Agreed, including the people saying it definitely was never a sandbox...
And ironically you're doing the exact same thing.
Also, most of the people who responded before you that were responding to the OP ended with "i respect your opinion, but i don't agree with them" or something to that effect. Since when are people not allowed to give reasons why they think someones opinion is wrong?
You act like they were demonizing him or just saying he was wrong and leaving it at that.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Stop trying to claim WoW was once a sandbox. It never was a sandbox. Never. It has always been a themepark.
It's always had instanced dungeons/raids. It's always had instanced pvp as well as open world pvp. It's always had the same quest grind to level up. The classes could only be built a specific way and you couldn't have much variation back in the early days. To say WoW was ever a sandbox is to be ignorant.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
You are wasting your time. He was even dishonest while copy pasting the definition of sandbox just to make a point. he conveniently cut off half the definition.. that is how desperate he is.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The overall world was a sandbox though. Sandbox just meant you had an open, noninstanced-linear world to traverse, in which WoW was at a point.
You had quests, but you didnt have to do them.
It's definitely transformed into a theme park, now it is a theme park. But original WoW was plenty sandbox in the sense you could play the game as an open world sandbox without going through any of the linear quests.
Having said that, I'm not going to bother arguing any more points on the matter since it's clear every person on here has a different version in their own mind of what a sandbox game is...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Sandbox does not mean an open, noninstanced world. You act like you can just pick 1 single feature from 'X' game that sandbox game 'Y' has, and call that game 'X' a sandbox. That isn't how it works. A sandbox game for instance can have some instanced content and still be a sandbox game.
Terms like Sandbox and Themepark are not a rigid set of features and if a game has a feature not on the list, then its not so and so. That's now how it works. Sandbox/Themepark are styles of game development. A sandbox is more centered around giving players choices and more control over how the world is shaped and how they want to play the game. A themepark is more centered around giving players an exciting ride, where even though most of the core choices are made for them already and they're essentially going along a pre-determined ride, its still fun as shit.
This is what it means to be a Sandbox and Themepark, not whatever ignorant idea you have. Anyway, if after this you refuse to see reason, then i won't bother to waste any more time trying to educate you.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
If you really don't understand sandboxes or emergent gameplay, worth reading following ( this topic was cooked. Many years ago)
http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/forums.cfm?ismb=1&threadId=317478
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The OP seems very stubborn, one of those folks that even when they are wrong will always be right. He apparently got open world mixed up with sandbox at the beginning of his discussion and just won't admit it.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I'm glad you posted that. It shows just how limitless the term "sandbox" truly is to many different people.
Not sure who was crowned the grand vizier of what constitutes a Sandbox game, I'd love to see it.
I' ve always understood sandbox game to mean, a game you can enter and pretty much do whatever you want without following a linear path. WoW being open world would be that....
No, WoW is an open world game, not a sandbox game.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Technopedia - http://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming
Definition - What does Sandbox mean?
A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.
Do you not even read the very things you yourself post?
Point 1 - "A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will."
Point 2- "Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels"
Point 2 is describing themepark games with segmented areas and numbered levels while the 2nd half of the sentence which goes into point 3 is describing sandbox games. You can have a seamless world but still have segmented areas btw.
Point 3- "a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish."
Key term in point 2 being USUALLY.
I admit, i wrote this because I thought you were disagreeing with Amjoco but the way you worded certain things made me not 100% sure. So in case I was wrong and you weren't disagreeing with Amjoco by saying WoW is a sandbox then disregard all this.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Yes, a sandbox game can be open world or free roaming just as like WoW. WoW has segmented areas (zones) and numbered levels (level 1-90), therefore it isn't a sandbox game. WoW is an open world themepark.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Thumbs up! You broke that down much better than me.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Once upon a time an RPG was a sandbox when the level restrictions within the game were removed. No item levels, no monster levels, no quest levels, no zone levels. You could start the game and had access to everything in the game without having to level a character first.
They were usually done as mods that could be ordered from the devs, or were packaged within the game as a an option that could be enabled, like a cheat.
What a sandbox is has changed over the years as know-it-alls make up their own definition in an effort to be more right than the next guy. Because, you know, garys mod invented the sandbox genre.
Fixed?
If you think it's difficult to master any of the available classes, you might want to think again. It might be difficult for you, on a personal level, but for the majority it certainly isn't.
I'm a multi season top 5 percentile glad, and I can teach any competent player to get to that same level in a very, very short period of time.
Your own incompetence is just that: your own. Take note.
I agree with the OP.
I found that the counter points others have made are 100% wrong.
I'm back in the game after quitting at the end of BC. Came back for WoTLK, took my time leveling up but left after 3 months and having dipped just my toes in the raiding waters. I had seen enough, was pretty blasé about getting back to raiding and just left.
They have not devalued leveling, contrary to popular belief. I should know, I'm sloooowly leveling up as there's so much that has changed and I want to experience everything as if I were new to the game.
Every step of the way I'm finding people everywhere. I do mean everywhere. Underwater? Yep. In some remote area of Darkshore? Yep. On some mountain top? Yep.
Everyone boosted free? It's just one boost. Many people have copious amounts of alts.
There's so much content that I fully understand if someone wants to get it over with faster.
Sandbox? Can't believe you wrote that.
I hate the instant porting to instances too.
I agree but it's for the best of all the servers. No one can complain about low population or population fluctuations anymore.
*shrugs* Everyone now knows to take whatever these companies say with a grain of salt. At some point I expect game publishers nowadays to try anything shady to make me shell out more money. Doesn't excuse them but it's a collective thing. If we all just gave them the middle finger then maybe the tides would slowly turn. Slowly.
I understand leaving the game for a game with deeper crafting. EvE, Life is Feudal, etc.
Dying empire? Every game out there right now is signing up to become this moribund.