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I believe I have reached the point were leveling is actually turning me off from games..
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
I believe I have reached the point were leveling is actually turning me off from games..
I tried to come back to play Rift. But I cant stand the level grind. It doesnt feel important to me, and feels more like a restriction.
the world feels empty in zone I am forced to level in.
And all I can think about is how I can get out of the emptiness and into the popular gameplay high-level areas and play with others (both in PvP and PvE)
Storm Legion was such a slow level grind that I simply choose to play around with Dimensions alone before I quit previously. The level grind just turned me off, along side the lack of Zone events like I was use to as a max level in Vanilla. Also I could no longer play the RvR PvP since it was moved to a new level restriction which I didnt meet.
The "fun" seem to be locked behind too much "boring". If you know what I mean. And I see this in so many MMOs.
Archeage was another case of this. The Fun was locked behind the Boring, which I assume the developers want you to be bored before you can have fun. I dont like this design.
Some games which have PvP Endgame, force you to grind PvE Levels before you can be effective in PvP. Thats so backwards game design. (Elder Scrolls Online)
Blizzard has added a level 90 boost for 60$ for WoW, and I believe this is because their stats show that most players quit that game as well during the Leveling period, and Blizzard like most developers dont understand why.
People quit during leveling, because Leveling is not fun generally. There are a minority that are into that kind of thing, but the majority does whatever they can to get through the leveling as fast as possible.
Taking our time is not an option for most players, because we want to play and have fun the way we want to. We dont need features locked behind level gate.
Just like the anti-F2P community doesnt like things locked away behind Paywall, many of us dont like features locked behind Level Wall.
Even Anet is making stupid mistakes in development with their recent changes to the way leveling rewards work. They decided to add more restrictions to level, and in effect, making the leveling less fun than it already was.
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Devils Advocate:
Levels are a form of Progression. So in reality all forms of Progression is levels.
But in this discussion, I am talking about traditional level grind. Not gear progression, not skill progression, or any of that other stuff. I am talking about Character Levels.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Me too
Several points in response to OP:-
Same here if no leveling I lose interst so quick hence I don't like endgame I enjoy the Jurney there which is leveling.
Dude, I am so with you! I've played WoW off and on since launch, and right now I am not planning to play WoD, and a big part of the reason is because I can't stomach the thought of slogging through even just 10 more levels, even in brand new content.
Back in the days of EQ, DAOC, VANILLA WoW, EQ2, etc, leveling was challenging (some games more than others) and if not challenging, at least felt more important and epic. Early Wow dungeons like wailing Caverns and Deadmines could take hours to complete and felt like mini raids and when you got a blue drop it felt important.
As the OP said, now leveling feels like nothing more than an artificial grind before you can actually have fun at end game. It's no longer about the journey in MMOS AND all about the end game destination and I'm also very tired of it.
Me Grimlock King!
Not even remotely the same type of gameplay. So no shit you enjoy 1 type of genre, but not really into a completely different type of game.
Part of the problem is that I prefer the journey to the destination; and when the journey is turned into a generic, insignificant, easy-mode slog through ever increasing numbers, then all aspects of the game become tedious to me.
1) no arbitrary time sinks to slow me....like travel 5 miles to deliver something for no purpose, just to slow me down.
2) improvement needs to be seen in reasonable time...
3) no repetition in the same areas....repeated dailies bore me, quest sending me somewhere multiple times without letting me do it all at once suck.
4) no alts only have the same road over and over....sucks and kills it.
This killed WS for me, I found myself walking the same ground over and over to complete different quests; poor quest pathing is a game killer.
Totally agree, and sadly leveling in most MMO's feel exactly like you described. Not fun!
Me Grimlock King!
You seem to have caught half of my point, and missed the other half. Leveling is 'fun', or fun enough, in a PvE solo or multiplayer game. Not so in MMO games, DAoC leveling was ok, but tedious given that the goal was to get to RvR.
In an MMO, a game with hundreds or thousands of players in one world, what are they doing there if not be interacted with?
If the game is about level grinding, or quest chaining, then why are there hundreds of people in my way?
A massively multi-player game gets its potential for unique gameplay from the interactions between players. Leveling in an MMO is only entertaining to the extent that other people are needed or highly beneficial. As most games allow solo leveling, it's just a chore to be done before PvP and endgame.
No I like leveling, and am actually sick of all these level caps. I liked how Legend of Mir (first MMO which I still play on p.servers) had no level cap, how Lineage 2 took ages to level and I love how you can farm as much Prowess as you want in Darkfall (although 120k is enough to max out a single "class").
Then again, I'm the kind of guy who tends to stay away from anything that has an "end-game". Usually, MMOs that refer to their content as "end-game" what that translates to is usually "yeah, so you've finished the MMO part of the game now. It's all instanced dungeons and match based PvP from now on!". These games are mockeries of the genre.
That's why I'm looking forward to Black Desert Online, no level cap, no level restrictions on items, no instancing (except player houses, guild halls and castles are in the world), open PK.
If all you want to do is get to the part where the content becomes instanced, sure you're playing the right genre?
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Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
I think for me it's not just the leveling that bores me (it does). But the fact that I cannot play the way I wish, I am restricted to play a certain way from the beginning. Meaning I pick a class and all I can do is what that class offers.
I would agree that level does seem like barrier to the real fun. But I also believe that class restrictions are another barrier. I pick a tank level it to max game, realize that I also like to play a healer at max game but don't want to re-level the content again.
I personally prefer skill based game. Like in UO I can pick and choose which skills I wish (yes there were still cookie cutter builds). But I had more freedom of what I wish to make out of my character. And not to mention there seems to be more freedom of play in skill based games. It's not just about being a combat character but you had other real duties and tangible goals should as being a meaniful crafter, owning a house, being a treasure hunter or bounty hunter, or a transporter, you name it.
Check out this article on Why Crafting Sucks
You are correct, it isn't important anymore, hence the empty feeling that you are noticing.
When it mattered, when leveling was about socialization as much as it was the actual act, people were less in a hurry and more interested in exploring and enjoying the journey.
Those days are done, so like you said, why bother with leveling anymore?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think this is the easy response thrown about when people express some dissatisfaction with the direction mmo's have taken.
I wish mmo's required more of the multi-player part of the acronym, I wish they were less solo friendly, I wish there was more exploration and less easy-mode, solo-centric, hub-based game-play, ubiquitous fast travel, instancing, phasing, dungeon-finders etc.
I am not burned out on mmo's, just rather bored of the direction the genre has taken and hoping for a little innovation.
That said there are still current games I enjoy for what they are, such as SWTOR, P101 or Firefall.
I should know better by now not to click on links from the OP by now....
Such fake research
Such fake knowledge of the genre
But hey...here's an answer....
Leveling has been there since RPG's have been there. I find it just as satisfying now as then...as long as the game I'm playing makes it seem like real progression. Not SUPER PROGRESSION where you level too fast or "OMG CAN I JUST LEVEL NOW" kind of grind fests.
Either way...it's not the leveling that matters. It's the way games hinder or allow you to do so. The balance of rewards and progression.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
For me I don't like leveling in games where the entire game is 1-max quest grind and then TOTALLY SWITCH and turn into some other game of raid grind. The people who enjoy the leveling aspect will play it for 1 month and leave. The people who like the raid aspect they are at risk of getting annoyed by the barrier to entry. Seriously, split into two separate games already, one where you endlessly quest and level up and another that you can start the game as a complete newbie and be ready for your first raid.
What I like, is from my first MMO (Lineage 2) where max level took so long that it wasn't "originally" intended for players to reach it. The higher level you got the stronger you were but also the bigger the experience penalty was on death. So the more powerful you were the less likely you were to risk it. Also you were still useful in end game content even at level 20-40. I think some of these values resonate with the eve crowd. A good MMO needs to have a low barrier of entry to get involved in the game so they don't feel like they need to be max level to contribute.
I want a new and improved version of L2 back... for now I have to deal with Trion's version of Archeage.
No, i fully understood your point. You're the one who didn't get mine.
One can say they LOVE riding a bike as much as they want, and then turn around and say riding a skateboard was lame. They both serve the same basic function, but why is 1 fun, while the other isn't? They're completely different types of(not sure what to call it, tool?)
You can say you love leveling in ARPGs as much as you want, it doesn't mean shit about the leveling experience in MMORPGs because they don't play the same at all. Just the same as if someone said leveling in ARPGs was lame, but they loved leveling in FPS's.
Im fine with leveling in singleplayer game , because leveling wasn't main part of it.
But in MMO(RPG) , the leveling is boring and hard to enjoy (for me) .
Because the multplayer natural of MMO(RPG), i just want to get pass all the contents to join with other player .
That mental make leveling in MMO(RPG) hard to enjoy .