I can't help but wonder if this was Trion's plan from the start. If their purpose all along was to just grab as much cash in as little time as they could and let the game die as a result rather than making a steady, long-term profit by keeping the game successful.
If this isn't the case, it just means they're terrible at what they do.
If it is the case, it means they're terrible for what they do.
R2Games' business presentation explicitly shows and states that they (and thus, presumably, all F2P companies) are VERY aware that whaling practices reduce the lifespan of the game and player retention, but find it worth it because of higher overall profits from the whales.
Given that many (but not all) of AA's monetization is the same as what's in the presentation, it seems a safe enough bet that Trion was aware of this too. They even threw in some new strategies of their own for fast cash grabbing like the $150 founders packs. Odds are very good they've made back their investment and then some, IMHO.
.........weeeeeeeell, at least, if you don't include chargebacks, I suppose. Cause lots of people have perfectly valid legal standing to get a refund thanks to that 10% discount fiasco (regardless of whether you think they're crybabies or not, the law supports them in this case. Contract Law is VERY clear on this matter) and are finding their banks more than willing to reverse ALL charges to Trion because of it (both patron sub and credit purchases are affected by that discount, and thus founders are legally entitled to a refund for all subscription fees and credit purchases). Wonder how much that is costing them. Alas, though, most people don't know their legal rights and thus likely won't realize they're entitled to a refund.
Mm...that genuinely makes me feel a little sad to know. I never pre-order new MMOs, or pay for special subscription packs like that, though. I've been disappointed by too many games by now to do anything more than a month-to-month. I spent a total of $40 on ArcheAge in the 2½ months I've been playing it so I didn't lose out much. I also paid in cash through Rixty. I never trusted Trion with my credit card info to begin with, but even if I thought I deserved my money back (which I don't believe I do, because lets be honest, I knew I might not like the game when I paid for it) it wouldn't be doable anyhow.
Did we really lose that many players during the Auroria screw-up? Is my server dying because it was mostly F2Players to begin with, or are other patron-friendly servers also experiencing a huge drop of activity?
No doubt this is a factor, but not the only one. Doubtfully even the main one. I'd guess Trion planned to release Auroria just weeks before WoD to keep players planted in AA. The AA patch itself, however, turned out to be a fiasco. One that Trion did absolutely squat to remedy. Now, I'm aware that patches and programming comes from XL and all, but lack of damage control is 100% Trion's f-up.
They should've tested XL's patch properly before implementing it...they didn't.
They should've taken the servers down once they realized half the population couldn't log into the game...they didn't.
They should've rolled back to before the patch to make the inevitable land-grab everyone was anticipating fair for all...they didn't.
I think they over-estimated just how much of their BS their paying customers would tolerate from them. As a result, they went into panic-mode, and tried to monetize thunderstruck trees/logs, which were a rare and coveted item used to craft some vehicles for those unfamiliar. As a result, they further screwed up a hot commodity of the economy, pissing off even more customers, causing more to quit. I'm sure there were some that were only riding the AA train until WoD came out from the start, but really it only provided a place for people already fed up with Trion's repeated screwups to go.
Personally, I, like a lot of others, can't stand WoW, so I will never play WoD. Even still, I refuse to stick around in AA with the way this company has been running it into the dirt.
No doubt this is a factor, but not the only one. Doubtfully even the main one. I'd guess Trion planned to release Auroria just weeks before WoD to keep players planted in AA. The AA patch itself, however, turned out to be a fiasco. One that Trion did absolutely squat to remedy. Now, I'm aware that patches and programming comes from XL and all, but lack of damage control is 100% Trion's f-up.
They should've tested XL's patch properly before implementing it...they didn't.
They should've taken the servers down once they realized half the population couldn't log into the game...they didn't.
They should've rolled back to before the patch to make the inevitable land-grab everyone was anticipating fair for all...they didn't.
I think they over-estimated just how much of their BS their paying customers would tolerate from them. As a result, they went into panic-mode, and tried to monetize thunderstruck trees/logs, which were a rare and coveted item used to craft some vehicles for those unfamiliar. As a result, they further screwed up a hot commodity of the economy, pissing off even more customers, causing more to quit. I'm sure there were some that were only riding the AA train until WoD came out from the start, but really it only provided a place for people already fed up with Trion's repeated screwups to go.
Personally, I, like a lot of others, can't stand WoW, so I will never play WoD. Even still, I refuse to stick around in AA with the way this company has been running it into the dirt.
This is all true, unfortunately. I'm not going to play WoW, I had my fill of it long ago. Which leaves me with little to choose from for a decent MMO. Games that actually have my attention aren't even being released in NA for a couple of years, which is the only reason I'm even still playing.
I knew I was going to have a problem with the game being F2P from the start, and I wasn't surprised when the game was filled with botters/hackers, which has still (even on a dead server) caused there to be no land available. So what if they have a GM come on the server once-a-week to delete a few bots? They go make another FREE account, right? I have never been satisfied with the F2P model, and I was foolish to think otherwise with AA.
I've never played Rift, so I didn't know what to expect with Trion Worlds publishing this game, and how ridiculous their money-grabbing, bait-n-switch tactics are.
I actually wouldn't mind server merges, because I've been on Calliel for 3 weeks - month, and my group of 3-4 players has yet to even obtain anything past our few 8x8's. We've just not built up enough money for something better, if we can find the right buyer.
I hate admitting that a game I liked with so much potential is dead/dying, because I don't really have something to fall back on.
Both are more fun, PoE can be a solotastic game, I may even bother to find others to play with, E:D is pretty solotastic at this time, it can only get better.
Also laughed even harder with some suggesting server merges.... what go from 12 to ? .... they don't have many to start with. This will be a small niche game if that the way Trion and Xl have handled it so far.
You say "small niche game" as if that's a bad thing. Can you imagine how much the industry would suck if every single game were exactly like WoW...not that we're that far off from it being that way.
You say "small niche game" as if that's a bad thing. Can you imagine how much the industry would suck if every single game were exactly like WoW...not that we're that far off from it being that way.
Problem is, Trion is ruining even that.
I have to agree. What games besides WoW and Eve aren't niche games?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Also laughed even harder with some suggesting server merges.... what go from 12 to ? .... they don't have many to start with. This will be a small niche game if that the way Trion and Xl have handled it so far.
Oh well maybe the mobile app will save it LOL.
Must be a new record, server merges after exactly 2 months. The game must be even worse than i thought.
You say "small niche game" as if that's a bad thing. Can you imagine how much the industry would suck if every single game were exactly like WoW...not that we're that far off from it being that way.
Problem is, Trion is ruining even that.
I have to agree. What games besides WoW and Eve aren't niche games?
EvE is niche, it's just a well defined and well protected one.
AA was doomed before it went live, western players might enjoy it for feew weeks as a FTP player a week tops unless you are hardcore living in your moms basement.
AA is not a game that really works in the west, poor quests, massive grind for what, some boat rides and PVP, no wonder people are leaving.
I'd hardly call AA a grind. I obtained things in 2½ months that might've taken a year in more grindy games. The game was incredibly solo-friendly and easy to advance in for the most part.
Gratification wasn't totally instant, but then I would never want that in a game myself. There just wasn't much to do to pass the time in AA. It needed more activities other than murdering each other for sport.
When a video game starts feeling like a job, that's when I call it quits.
I never got into the immersion of the game and I think that's what my problem was from the get go.
Finding land to settle was the biggest hassle for me, but eventually I did find a open spot after 1 month from the help of my guild, but even a piece of property still wasn't enough to keep me addicted.
I gave it almost a 2 month run, it's just not what I am looking for in a mmorpg.
history repeats itself. many people forget that archeage was launched in korea nearly 2 years ago and also in russia people had an earlier access. and everything that happens now on the na and eu server is the same we could observe in korea and russia. xl games didn't learn anything, trion world didn't learn anything. i remember scott hartsman (ceo trion worlds) saying in an interview on this site, that 'they will have a close look on the launch and development of archeage in korea' when it went f2p. he repeated it, when the game was released in russia and they still didn't learned anything.
archeage was a very promising game, i personally had high hopes for it ... before i got first hand informations from the korean close beta. and 2 years later the same problems, may they be based on exploits, conceptional miscalculations, messed up ingame mechanics ... they are still the same. archeage is a niche game - and that is nothing terrible - but it was hyped as the saviour of the genre when it was predictable that it will go the same way like similiar mmogs ... lucky if they can keep around 100.000 loyal fans, who are willing to pay a monthly fee.
p.s. and i agree with dmkano (rarely, but this time i do) that mmogs of the last decade didn't had the game concept to keep players exited and occupied longer than 3 months. in many many cases its about the lack of content or boring routine (f.e. gear grinding treatmill) once the pople hit max level. some other games are driven by the cashshops, not innovative ideas, and sooner or later players don't fall for this either. in case of archeage its getting worse because of the issues that were known for years and never were fixed.
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek They're all "trying" to play World of Warcraft.
I guess it is possible but they are two quite different type of MMOs.
They are quite similar in a way. They both cater to the 1-2 hour queue enjoying crowd I want to play the new WOW expansion but I don't feel like waiting 1-2 hours to login so I guess I will just wait for it to settle down.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It's been more than 6 weeks so MMO Tourists have moved on.
Same thing happens with every MMO - the core players will stick around for a long time, while many only stay for 3-6 weeks.
Give WoD another 3-6 weeks and you'll see the same old "I quit" posts on WoW forums, just like it happened for every MMO in the last 10 years.
What's surprising to me more is that players have not recognized this pattern yet heh.
Problem with AA is that it needs F2P players, plenty of them or the already boring and pretty much non existing end game becomes even more dull and pointless.
----
The gankers and zergers will get really bored fast since there is pretty much only the weapon/armor grind left when the PvP is gone.
This game is the poster child for what is wrong with the genre. Too many legit players and players who just wanted to put in their honest effort simply got burned by Trion, XL Games, cheaters, and whales. With so much stacked against them, it appears that many just simply gave up on trying to make it work. Even on these boards, it wasn't more than a couple weeks ago, that AA's forums covered 2-3 pages of new or updated threads per day. Now it's at 2-3 threads per day. My guess is that people are just done jumping through hoops with this particular circus act.
Even that new Sticky, consolidated monetization thread that was created a few days ago only hit 3 pages and hasn't been touched in 2 days. I'd say people just got tired of trying to wait for it to get better realizing it probably never will.
Outstanding Sir, you just nailed it right on the head.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's been more than 6 weeks so MMO Tourists have moved on.
Same thing happens with every MMO - the core players will stick around for a long time, while many only stay for 3-6 weeks.
Give WoD another 3-6 weeks and you'll see the same old "I quit" posts on WoW forums, just like it happened for every MMO in the last 10 years.
What's surprising to me more is that players have not recognized this pattern yet heh.
Problem with AA is that it needs F2P players, plenty of them or the already boring and pretty much non existing end game becomes even more dull and pointless.
----
The gankers and zergers will get really bored fast since there is pretty much only the weapon/armor grind left when the PvP is gone.
Trion will most likely wait about 4-6 weeks for players to start getting bored of WoD and then they'll release 1.7 patch with level 55 upgrade and new content.
Level 55 makes quite a few unorthodox builds very powerful due to extra points - so that will be fun to play with - like seeing those current shit "tier 7" builds shoot up to Tier1/2
That will boost playerbase again for about 3-6 weeks.
So expect 1.7 in late Dec early Jan.
Uhhh huh. If Trion is banking on "bored players" from WoD to boost up their numbers, they are going to be in for a rude awakening.
Fact is, they are making an awfully big assumption that bored WoW players will return to Archeage.
So like... honest question. What's in the lv55 1.7 patch that would entice players to return (or start playing if they're new)? (I'm marginally sure "increasing the level cap from 50 to 55" won't do it)
Uhhh huh. If Trion is banking on "bored players" from WoD to boost up their numbers, they are going to be in for a rude awakening.
Fact is, they are making an awfully big assumption that bored WoW players will return to Archeage.
Remember that banking on players being bored from WoW is a #1 strategy of Trion. They've also been under the delusion that bored WoW players would swarm Rift on release. Didn't exactly turn out too well for the company.
Originally posted by TiamatRoar So like... honest question. What's in the lv55 1.7 patch that would entice players to return (or start playing if they're new)? (I'm marginally sure "increasing the level cap from 50 to 55" won't do it)
The huge thing is new builds - each skill gets a level 55 skill - and 5 new points to allocate to builds.
For example Arcane Hunter currently is Tier 5 - it will go to Tier 1 once 1.7 hits
Or battlemage - currently like 2 spec points short of awesomeness -once 1.7 hits - Tier 1 class
To me 5 extra skill points is by far the biggest thing (with addition of new level 55 skills)
More skills balancing - mages get nerfed some - but again with 5 new skills lots of new build options
Ayanad gear tier and a crapton of more stuff you can read here (which is a partial list)
ArcheAge will probably be the most unfriendly MMO for returning players ever. AA is a game for committed players. There's no revolving door. Not when they will have to start over with regard to all their land having been lost.
Comments
Mm...that genuinely makes me feel a little sad to know. I never pre-order new MMOs, or pay for special subscription packs like that, though. I've been disappointed by too many games by now to do anything more than a month-to-month. I spent a total of $40 on ArcheAge in the 2½ months I've been playing it so I didn't lose out much. I also paid in cash through Rixty. I never trusted Trion with my credit card info to begin with, but even if I thought I deserved my money back (which I don't believe I do, because lets be honest, I knew I might not like the game when I paid for it) it wouldn't be doable anyhow.
it is called the WoD effect
No doubt this is a factor, but not the only one. Doubtfully even the main one. I'd guess Trion planned to release Auroria just weeks before WoD to keep players planted in AA. The AA patch itself, however, turned out to be a fiasco. One that Trion did absolutely squat to remedy. Now, I'm aware that patches and programming comes from XL and all, but lack of damage control is 100% Trion's f-up.
They should've tested XL's patch properly before implementing it...they didn't.
They should've taken the servers down once they realized half the population couldn't log into the game...they didn't.
They should've rolled back to before the patch to make the inevitable land-grab everyone was anticipating fair for all...they didn't.
I think they over-estimated just how much of their BS their paying customers would tolerate from them. As a result, they went into panic-mode, and tried to monetize thunderstruck trees/logs, which were a rare and coveted item used to craft some vehicles for those unfamiliar. As a result, they further screwed up a hot commodity of the economy, pissing off even more customers, causing more to quit. I'm sure there were some that were only riding the AA train until WoD came out from the start, but really it only provided a place for people already fed up with Trion's repeated screwups to go.
Personally, I, like a lot of others, can't stand WoW, so I will never play WoD. Even still, I refuse to stick around in AA with the way this company has been running it into the dirt.
This is all true, unfortunately. I'm not going to play WoW, I had my fill of it long ago. Which leaves me with little to choose from for a decent MMO. Games that actually have my attention aren't even being released in NA for a couple of years, which is the only reason I'm even still playing.
I knew I was going to have a problem with the game being F2P from the start, and I wasn't surprised when the game was filled with botters/hackers, which has still (even on a dead server) caused there to be no land available. So what if they have a GM come on the server once-a-week to delete a few bots? They go make another FREE account, right? I have never been satisfied with the F2P model, and I was foolish to think otherwise with AA.
I've never played Rift, so I didn't know what to expect with Trion Worlds publishing this game, and how ridiculous their money-grabbing, bait-n-switch tactics are.
I actually wouldn't mind server merges, because I've been on Calliel for 3 weeks - month, and my group of 3-4 players has yet to even obtain anything past our few 8x8's. We've just not built up enough money for something better, if we can find the right buyer.
I hate admitting that a game I liked with so much potential is dead/dying, because I don't really have something to fall back on.
I went to PoE and E:D.
Both are more fun, PoE can be a solotastic game, I may even bother to find others to play with, E:D is pretty solotastic at this time, it can only get better.
Saw the title and laughed so hard!
Also laughed even harder with some suggesting server merges.... what go from 12 to ? .... they don't have many to start with. This will be a small niche game if that the way Trion and Xl have handled it so far.
Oh well maybe the mobile app will save it LOL.
You say "small niche game" as if that's a bad thing. Can you imagine how much the industry would suck if every single game were exactly like WoW...not that we're that far off from it being that way.
Problem is, Trion is ruining even that.
I have to agree. What games besides WoW and Eve aren't niche games?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Must be a new record, server merges after exactly 2 months. The game must be even worse than i thought.
EvE is niche, it's just a well defined and well protected one.
AA was doomed before it went live, western players might enjoy it for feew weeks as a FTP player a week tops unless you are hardcore living in your moms basement.
AA is not a game that really works in the west, poor quests, massive grind for what, some boat rides and PVP, no wonder people are leaving.
I'd hardly call AA a grind. I obtained things in 2½ months that might've taken a year in more grindy games. The game was incredibly solo-friendly and easy to advance in for the most part.
Gratification wasn't totally instant, but then I would never want that in a game myself. There just wasn't much to do to pass the time in AA. It needed more activities other than murdering each other for sport.
When a video game starts feeling like a job, that's when I call it quits.
I never got into the immersion of the game and I think that's what my problem was from the get go.
Finding land to settle was the biggest hassle for me, but eventually I did find a open spot after 1 month from the help of my guild, but even a piece of property still wasn't enough to keep me addicted.
I gave it almost a 2 month run, it's just not what I am looking for in a mmorpg.
history repeats itself. many people forget that archeage was launched in korea nearly 2 years ago and also in russia people had an earlier access. and everything that happens now on the na and eu server is the same we could observe in korea and russia. xl games didn't learn anything, trion world didn't learn anything. i remember scott hartsman (ceo trion worlds) saying in an interview on this site, that 'they will have a close look on the launch and development of archeage in korea' when it went f2p. he repeated it, when the game was released in russia and they still didn't learned anything.
archeage was a very promising game, i personally had high hopes for it ... before i got first hand informations from the korean close beta. and 2 years later the same problems, may they be based on exploits, conceptional miscalculations, messed up ingame mechanics ... they are still the same. archeage is a niche game - and that is nothing terrible - but it was hyped as the saviour of the genre when it was predictable that it will go the same way like similiar mmogs ... lucky if they can keep around 100.000 loyal fans, who are willing to pay a monthly fee.
p.s. and i agree with dmkano (rarely, but this time i do) that mmogs of the last decade didn't had the game concept to keep players exited and occupied longer than 3 months. in many many cases its about the lack of content or boring routine (f.e. gear grinding treatmill) once the pople hit max level. some other games are driven by the cashshops, not innovative ideas, and sooner or later players don't fall for this either. in case of archeage its getting worse because of the issues that were known for years and never were fixed.
They are quite similar in a way. They both cater to the 1-2 hour queue enjoying crowd
I want to play the new WOW expansion but I don't feel like waiting 1-2 hours to login so I guess I will just wait for it to settle down.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Problem with AA is that it needs F2P players, plenty of them or the already boring and pretty much non existing end game becomes even more dull and pointless.
----
The gankers and zergers will get really bored fast since there is pretty much only the weapon/armor grind left when the PvP is gone.
Outstanding Sir, you just nailed it right on the head.
Point being if a player really enjoys the game play of WOW, they were never going to last in AA, just too different.
Very few EVE players are over in WOD right now, there's a reason for that.
Oh yes, and I know there's some people who enjoy both, no need to point that out, there are outliers to every pattern.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A lot of players were PVE, hit 50, max skills done.
Asdar
Uhhh huh. If Trion is banking on "bored players" from WoD to boost up their numbers, they are going to be in for a rude awakening.
Fact is, they are making an awfully big assumption that bored WoW players will return to Archeage.
Remember that banking on players being bored from WoW is a #1 strategy of Trion. They've also been under the delusion that bored WoW players would swarm Rift on release. Didn't exactly turn out too well for the company.
ArcheAge will probably be the most unfriendly MMO for returning players ever. AA is a game for committed players. There's no revolving door. Not when they will have to start over with regard to all their land having been lost.