After Trion damage the game with a fail launch and a bad management / costumer suport, now is a group of players making the most damage as we can see from some behave around here and in other forums.
Some people are trying to make that cheating is ok, a complete normal behave... disgusting.
Everthing was done since launch of AA to reach this point by some users:
- Claim everywhere that AA was only hackers and bots, they exist but not in the dimension that was allways writen around.
- Claim that everyone should cheat because everyone cheat...
- Now people post that is cheating like is the most normal behave and other accept like the most normal thing...
I knew the game was a way to pass the time till WoD dropped but didn't expect it to crash and burn as fast as its doing. Trion needs to step their game up.
Originally posted by Albatroes I knew the game was a way to pass the time till WoD dropped but didn't expect it to crash and burn as fast as its doing. Trion needs to step their game up.
I've never played the game and never will (research of it's previously releases clearly revealed history would only repeat itself) but the entertainment surround forums alone is gold in itself!
As always, what interests me most is the impact of success and failure (in this case) on the mmo landscape moving forward.
Some people are trying to make that cheating is ok, a complete normal behave... disgusting.
I dont think so in this special case. Unfortunately Trion and XLGames are only learning through pain. Some of the exploits (like the land exploit for example) are in AA really since forever. They are present since release of AA in Korea and XLGames is fully aware of that. So did they or Trion care to fix it ? No they did not. So silently reporting exploits when you encounter them will not do anything.
Just to give you an example of another game. I (and many others i think) reported a duping hack in ESO short after launch on a friday and over the weekend they developed a fix and made an emergency maintenance on sunday. I am not saying that the technical quality of ESO is great but incidents like this got a proper response at least.
But back to AA. Making this as loud as somebody possibly can, posting how to exploit something in public forums etc. is the only way to make sure they will (be forced to) listen, unfortunately.
The technical quality of this game is so bad, i mean hack shield for example is not even able to check the integrity of the client files. That means one hack for example worked by altering files directly on the client by exchanging them -> Undetected
Other exploits altered the network packets sent between the client and the server, the land hack for example -> Undetected
Other hacks manipulated variables in client memory because a lot of things in AA are checked on the client and not on the server side, for example player coordinates. That led to the trade pack hacks where players ported between locations to trade risk free -> Undetected (unless somebody sees them doing that)
Those issues are in AA since it released in Korea and that is the real shame. No game is without issues and hacking is a problem in every game more or less, but XLGames and Trion don´t give a flying fuck about it, at least so far. The only thing they do is damage control but they don´t take care of the issues.
Some people are trying to make that cheating is ok, a complete normal behave... disgusting.
I dont think so in this special case. Unfortunately Trion and XLGames are only learning through pain. Some of the Exploits (like the land exploit for example) are in AA really since forever. They are present since release of AA in Korea and XLGames is fully aware of that. So did they or Trion care to fix it ? No they did not. So silently reporting exploits when you encounter them will don´t do anything.
Making this as loud as somebody possibly can, posting how to exploit something in public forums etc. is the only way to make sure they will (be forced to) listen, unfortunately.
The technical quality of this game is so bad, i mean hack shield for example is not even able to check the integrity of the client files. That means one hack for example worked by altering files directly on the client by exchanging them -> Undetected
Other exploits altered the network packets sent between the client and the server, the land hack for example -> Undetected
Other hacks manipulated variables in client memory because a lot of things in AA are checked on the client and not on the server side, for example player coordinates. That led to the trade pack hacks where players ported between locations to trade risk free -> Undetected (unless somebody sees them doing that)
Those issues are in AA since it released in Korea and that is the real shame. No game is without issues and hacking is a problem in every game more or less, but XLGames and Trion don´t give a flying fuck about it, at least so far. The only thing they do is damage control but they don´t take care of the issues.
You made here a good point imo.
But still, players can do this forever if they want.
Imagine that Trion/XLGames are able to solve some major issues, there allways will be others to solve or new ones, its impossible to code a complex game like a mmorpg without any issues. So one thing is posting about issues with videos and screenshots all over around so company really start doing something about, other thing is do it and then post "I did it" and others accept that like a normal thing.
The snow ball was created by Trion/XLGames and now players are increasing that ball
Originally posted by JabasSo one thing is posting about issues with videos and screenshots all over around so company really start doing something about, other thing is do it and then post "I did it" and others accept that like a normal thing.
The snow ball was created by Trion/XLGames and now players are increasing that ball
I see where you come from. I don´t want to say that everybody in this case cheated to wake up Trion/XLGames and because they wanted to do the game a favor in the long run, that would be naive.
Of course cheating is a serious issue in a MMO that should be prosecuted and never considered as "normal" behavior.
But even the people boasting on forums for the lulz did something good out of bad, they make a lot of people aware of the issue. And awareness creates pressure or as you said a snowball.
AA need some serious reworking on the technical side and imo on a level that is so big that they will only consider it if they are scared to loose a lot of people if they don´t do it.
AA need some serious reworking on the technical side and imo on a level that is so big that they will only consider it if they are scared to loose a lot of people if they don´t do it.
Agree 100%.
XLGames should work in a big patch to solve most issues befor any other content patch (2.0 maybe).
For any game that has any kind of cashshop / RMT element outside of a subscription it is surely unacceptable that any cheats of that system should get anything else but a lifetime account ban? Trion need to wake up, anyone exploiting something that costs another customer real $ to get needs to be removed from the game not just slapped on the wrist.
This is a far bigger issue than Blizzards patch downtime
As always, what interests me most is the impact of success and failure (in this case) on the mmo landscape moving forward.
Imo ArcheAge is not a mmorpg to be ignored in mmo landscape for 2 main reasons:
- The concept of this mmorpg is a big step forward, finally something diferent from the releases in last 10y.
- The bad way to release, manage the community and the wrong bussiness model cant be done in a mmorpg like this.
Really hope more mmorpgs in the line of AA come out with a better release plan, better suport and better bussiness model.
I agree with this. The biggest thing I'm afraid of is devs will just look at this like: "Oh they tried something different and it failed, so let's just make more WoW clones."
As always, what interests me most is the impact of success and failure (in this case) on the mmo landscape moving forward.
Imo ArcheAge is not a mmorpg to be ignored in mmo landscape for 2 main reasons:
- The concept of this mmorpg is a big step forward, finally something diferent from the releases in last 10y.
- The bad way to release, manage the community and the wrong bussiness model cant be done in a mmorpg like this.
Really hope more mmorpgs in the line of AA come out with a better release plan, better suport and better bussiness model.
Alternatively, depending on Trion's financial report, the lesson they might get is
-You can doll up a game with pretend-sandbox elements while spending practically no resources whatsoever on managing it properly and still pull huge profits that would make most AAA MMO titles cry using the tried-and-true Korean F2P whaling business model.
(but still not as much profit as you could get by just copying and pasting League of Angels again)
When I think about it, something that lends credibility to the OP is that there are tons of posts like the OP on all relevant forums, but I've yet to see a post from someone saying "I exploited APEX and got perma-banned". Is it because there were only 12 of them? (:P)
As always, what interests me most is the impact of success and failure (in this case) on the mmo landscape moving forward.
Imo ArcheAge is not a mmorpg to be ignored in mmo landscape for 2 main reasons:
- The concept of this mmorpg is a big step forward, finally something diferent from the releases in last 10y.
- The bad way to release, manage the community and the wrong bussiness model cant be done in a mmorpg like this.
Really hope more mmorpgs in the line of AA come out with a better release plan, better suport and better bussiness model.
Alternatively, depending on Trion's financial report, the lesson they might get is
-You can doll up a game with pretend-sandbox elements while spending practically no resources whatsoever on managing it properly and still pull huge profits that would make most AAA MMO titles cry using the tried-and-true Korean F2P whaling business model.
(but still not as much profit as you could get by just copying and pasting League of Angels again)
When I think about it, something that lends credibility to the OP is that there are tons of posts like the OP on all relevant forums, but I've yet to see a post from someone saying "I exploited APEX and got perma-banned". Is it because there were only 12 of them? (:P)
I have checked "that forum" as well - not to cheat myself but just to really see it for myself. I can't believe how many people on there post about the temp bans. It seems crazy rare that they actually perma ban you. All you do is open a ticket and Trion seems to lift the ban???
Super stupid. I was surprised how popular that forum was and how many damn people there are developing hacks for this game
Dailies are like raise this pet and raise that pet, and smell some flower pots.. !!
You MUST need higher levels to clear dungeons, why not have 5 of the same lower levels to do it for you.
The only thing i liked about this game was the "gliders" and owning my own ship.
But after a while got over that.
To get you T3 hasla weapon, you have to kill a d-ck looking flower and a tes ti cle looking flower pod for 10000 + times
And after looking at my ass's ass for the ~300 time i decided it was time to quit. (will be doing soon, will get 400 gildast and donate a ship to the guildy)
(I am an archer with t3 hasla weapon, have 370 gildas, and donated $5 to this game.)
Dailies are like raise this pet and raise that pet, and smell some flower pots.. !!
You MUST need higher levels to clear dungeons, why not have 5 of the same lower levels to do it for you.
The only thing i liked about this game was the "gliders" and owning my own ship.
But after a while got over that.
To get you T3 hasla weapon, you have to kill a d-ck looking flower and a tes ti cle looking flower pod for 10000 + times
And after looking at my ass's ass for the ~300 time i decided it was time to quit. (will be doing soon, will get 400 gildast and donate a ship to the guildy)
(I am an archer with t3 hasla weapon, have 370 gildas, and donated $5 to this game.)
Othewise played it all f2p.
It sounds like you think you accomplished something.
Honestly, I've never botted or exploited in my life and don't respect people doing so, but if I had my second computer available at the time (and if I could find a free bot), I would have botted AA to get on a more level playing field with the rest.
Everyone did it, noone got punished. Ofcourse the otherwise legit players will jump on the bandwagon
Originally posted by Veexer_NuiI also kept everything, Full plate unique magnificent set I bought from auction from selling mass worker's potions.
Well, I find that very illuminating, not only regarding the way Trion is handling this, but in the attitudes many seem to have about such exploiting.
This is exactly how Trion handled it when people were exploiting in RIFT. No reason to think it'd be different in AA.
Yep, and is exactly the reason I left Rift. When the exploit allowed peeps to get to max PVP level in a matter of hours, and another exploit I reported that didn't get fixed after 3 patches, I knew all I needed to know and got the hell out. Not at all surprised to see this response from Trion.
Its the same thing blizzard did with hearthstone bots. You ban them and then let them come back so they can possibly spend money again. The banning is just a publicity stunt to make the people who weren't in on the exploits feel that the "cheaters" were punished.
That happen in allods/my.com to many players, they had to sign a forums and tell them there cheaters there never do it again, but they hard part, they needed to show they spend any money to the game, if they not there will keep acct banned, if people was free to play they will never see that acct. again.
Those bans weren't for the lockboxes, it was for duping credits.
Hence why he would have had credits and AH listings cancelled.
They haven't addressed the rest of what he would be claiming yet.
Coincidentally, a bunch of people just got banned. Not so coincidentally they're all claiming they didn't do anything; go figure.
There you go blaming the players again even after Trion already admitted they screwed up with their banning system before.
Point. There is a guy who made a forum post asking people "New player. Should I play this game or not?"
A few posts later, he posted that he got banned before he even logged on (well, was informed of his ban as he was trying to log on for the first time. However you want to look at it)
(I'd link to the thread since it's still new and a hot topic but the forums are down right now.)
But of course, they must all be hackers and cheaters that Trion rightfully caught and punished. Trion couldn't make any banning mistakes right? (and according to them only 12 people did the APEX exploit)
Also, ISN'T DUPING CREDITS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO WARRANT A PERMANENT BAN? Why on earth should Trion even have to BEGIN to address the other things he did when they've already "addressed" his credit exploiting? At this point he should be permabanned even before they need to bother checking him for the lockbox exploit as well. Sheez. That's one of the more ludicrous attempts to downplay Trion's horrible mismanagement on this matter that I've seen.
Those bans weren't for the lockboxes, it was for duping credits.
Hence why he would have had credits and AH listings cancelled.
They haven't addressed the rest of what he would be claiming yet.
Coincidentally, a bunch of people just got banned. Not so coincidentally they're all claiming they didn't do anything; go figure.
There you go blaming the players again even after Trion already admitted they screwed up with their banning system before.
Point. There is a guy who made a forum post asking people "New player. Should I play this game or not?"
One post later, he posted that he got banned before he even logged on.
(I'd link to the thread since it's still new and a hot topic but the forums are down right now.)
But of course, they must all be hackers and cheaters that Trion rightfully caught and punished. Trion couldn't make any banning mistakes right? (and according to them only 12 people did the APEX exploit)
They're all innocent, and some guy says he got banned before he started the game isn't a troll.
What a shock that trion said some time ago that there wee some false flags, and that they updated their detection to stop it, and there are still people claiming they were falsely banned.
Obviously only the innocent ones post they were innocent on the forums, right? A group of people, who were all in the same raid, most from the same guild, all banned at the exact same time. Yeah, that's a coincidence; they were all false-positives.
And now look, the forums crashed. I wonder if the same people who have been flooding the forums troll threads, stating the same thing over and over, with new accounts, or post histories that show the only thing they post is negative trolling comments, might be DDOSing the forums at this moment.
Because the forums where they talk about how to cheat in the game haven't been telling people to keep making threads claiming false-positives. Because this is an unheard-of event that never happens on a forum that anyone can post on, whether they play the game or not.
Yes, AA has a huge problem. People going out of their way to do nothing but make Trion and the game look bad.
Comments
After Trion damage the game with a fail launch and a bad management / costumer suport, now is a group of players making the most damage as we can see from some behave around here and in other forums.
Some people are trying to make that cheating is ok, a complete normal behave... disgusting.
Everthing was done since launch of AA to reach this point by some users:
- Claim everywhere that AA was only hackers and bots, they exist but not in the dimension that was allways writen around.
- Claim that everyone should cheat because everyone cheat...
- Now people post that is cheating like is the most normal behave and other accept like the most normal thing...
Amazing.
I agree, this is just crazy!
As if this is shocking news that AA is rampant of exploits and players have got away with it in past and are still continue to do so.
I've never played the game and never will (research of it's previously releases clearly revealed history would only repeat itself) but the entertainment surround forums alone is gold in itself!
As always, what interests me most is the impact of success and failure (in this case) on the mmo landscape moving forward.
You stay sassy!
I dont think so in this special case. Unfortunately Trion and XLGames are only learning through pain. Some of the exploits (like the land exploit for example) are in AA really since forever. They are present since release of AA in Korea and XLGames is fully aware of that. So did they or Trion care to fix it ? No they did not. So silently reporting exploits when you encounter them will not do anything.
Just to give you an example of another game. I (and many others i think) reported a duping hack in ESO short after launch on a friday and over the weekend they developed a fix and made an emergency maintenance on sunday. I am not saying that the technical quality of ESO is great but incidents like this got a proper response at least.
But back to AA. Making this as loud as somebody possibly can, posting how to exploit something in public forums etc. is the only way to make sure they will (be forced to) listen, unfortunately.
The technical quality of this game is so bad, i mean hack shield for example is not even able to check the integrity of the client files. That means one hack for example worked by altering files directly on the client by exchanging them -> Undetected
Other exploits altered the network packets sent between the client and the server, the land hack for example -> Undetected
Other hacks manipulated variables in client memory because a lot of things in AA are checked on the client and not on the server side, for example player coordinates. That led to the trade pack hacks where players ported between locations to trade risk free -> Undetected (unless somebody sees them doing that)
Those issues are in AA since it released in Korea and that is the real shame. No game is without issues and hacking is a problem in every game more or less, but XLGames and Trion don´t give a flying fuck about it, at least so far. The only thing they do is damage control but they don´t take care of the issues.
You made here a good point imo.
But still, players can do this forever if they want.
Imagine that Trion/XLGames are able to solve some major issues, there allways will be others to solve or new ones, its impossible to code a complex game like a mmorpg without any issues. So one thing is posting about issues with videos and screenshots all over around so company really start doing something about, other thing is do it and then post "I did it" and others accept that like a normal thing.
The snow ball was created by Trion/XLGames and now players are increasing that ball
Imo ArcheAge is not a mmorpg to be ignored in mmo landscape for 2 main reasons:
- The concept of this mmorpg is a big step forward, finally something diferent from the releases in last 10y.
- The bad way to release, manage the community and the wrong bussiness model cant be done in a mmorpg like this.
Really hope more mmorpgs in the line of AA come out with a better release plan, better suport and better bussiness model.
I see where you come from. I don´t want to say that everybody in this case cheated to wake up Trion/XLGames and because they wanted to do the game a favor in the long run, that would be naive.
Of course cheating is a serious issue in a MMO that should be prosecuted and never considered as "normal" behavior.
But even the people boasting on forums for the lulz did something good out of bad, they make a lot of people aware of the issue. And awareness creates pressure or as you said a snowball.
AA need some serious reworking on the technical side and imo on a level that is so big that they will only consider it if they are scared to loose a lot of people if they don´t do it.
Agree 100%.
XLGames should work in a big patch to solve most issues befor any other content patch (2.0 maybe).
For any game that has any kind of cashshop / RMT element outside of a subscription it is surely unacceptable that any cheats of that system should get anything else but a lifetime account ban? Trion need to wake up, anyone exploiting something that costs another customer real $ to get needs to be removed from the game not just slapped on the wrist.
This is a far bigger issue than Blizzards patch downtime
Trion need to be held to account imo
The number one rule of MMO gaming is - Exploit early and Exploit often. You will come out ahead if you do.
I agree with this. The biggest thing I'm afraid of is devs will just look at this like: "Oh they tried something different and it failed, so let's just make more WoW clones."
Alternatively, depending on Trion's financial report, the lesson they might get is
-You can doll up a game with pretend-sandbox elements while spending practically no resources whatsoever on managing it properly and still pull huge profits that would make most AAA MMO titles cry using the tried-and-true Korean F2P whaling business model.
(but still not as much profit as you could get by just copying and pasting League of Angels again)
When I think about it, something that lends credibility to the OP is that there are tons of posts like the OP on all relevant forums, but I've yet to see a post from someone saying "I exploited APEX and got perma-banned". Is it because there were only 12 of them? (:P)
I have checked "that forum" as well - not to cheat myself but just to really see it for myself. I can't believe how many people on there post about the temp bans. It seems crazy rare that they actually perma ban you. All you do is open a ticket and Trion seems to lift the ban???
Super stupid. I was surprised how popular that forum was and how many damn people there are developing hacks for this game
2 phrases to tell the entire story of why this game is so messed up - Free to Play and Open World PVP
They mix like oil and water....sub and open pvp isn't much better
This game is SO boring,
Literally all quests are kill x number of this.
Dungeons are lifeless, Rifts are BLEH.
Dailies are like raise this pet and raise that pet, and smell some flower pots.. !!
You MUST need higher levels to clear dungeons, why not have 5 of the same lower levels to do it for you.
The only thing i liked about this game was the "gliders" and owning my own ship.
But after a while got over that.
To get you T3 hasla weapon, you have to kill a d-ck looking flower and a tes ti cle looking flower pod for 10000 + times
And after looking at my ass's ass for the ~300 time i decided it was time to quit. (will be doing soon, will get 400 gildast and donate a ship to the guildy)
(I am an archer with t3 hasla weapon, have 370 gildas, and donated $5 to this game.)
Othewise played it all f2p.
It sounds like you think you accomplished something.
Hmm I wonder why all the talk is about AA's bad f2p system then?
I think people like you would be happier in a single player co-op with an online auction house. All you people want is story and dungeons anyways.
Honestly, I've never botted or exploited in my life and don't respect people doing so, but if I had my second computer available at the time (and if I could find a free bot), I would have botted AA to get on a more level playing field with the rest.
Everyone did it, noone got punished. Ofcourse the otherwise legit players will jump on the bandwagon
Yep, and is exactly the reason I left Rift. When the exploit allowed peeps to get to max PVP level in a matter of hours, and another exploit I reported that didn't get fixed after 3 patches, I knew all I needed to know and got the hell out. Not at all surprised to see this response from Trion.
That happen in allods/my.com to many players, they had to sign a forums and tell them there cheaters there never do it again, but they hard part, they needed to show they spend any money to the game, if they not there will keep acct banned, if people was free to play they will never see that acct. again.
Those bans weren't for the lockboxes, it was for duping credits.
Hence why he would have had credits and AH listings cancelled.
They haven't addressed the rest of what he would be claiming yet.
Coincidentally, a bunch of people just got banned. Not so coincidentally they're all claiming they didn't do anything; go figure.
There you go blaming the players again even after Trion already admitted they screwed up with their banning system before.
Point. There is a guy who made a forum post asking people "New player. Should I play this game or not?"
A few posts later, he posted that he got banned before he even logged on (well, was informed of his ban as he was trying to log on for the first time. However you want to look at it)
(I'd link to the thread since it's still new and a hot topic but the forums are down right now.)
But of course, they must all be hackers and cheaters that Trion rightfully caught and punished. Trion couldn't make any banning mistakes right? (and according to them only 12 people did the APEX exploit)
Also, ISN'T DUPING CREDITS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO WARRANT A PERMANENT BAN? Why on earth should Trion even have to BEGIN to address the other things he did when they've already "addressed" his credit exploiting? At this point he should be permabanned even before they need to bother checking him for the lockbox exploit as well. Sheez. That's one of the more ludicrous attempts to downplay Trion's horrible mismanagement on this matter that I've seen.
They're all innocent, and some guy says he got banned before he started the game isn't a troll.
What a shock that trion said some time ago that there wee some false flags, and that they updated their detection to stop it, and there are still people claiming they were falsely banned.
Obviously only the innocent ones post they were innocent on the forums, right? A group of people, who were all in the same raid, most from the same guild, all banned at the exact same time. Yeah, that's a coincidence; they were all false-positives.
And now look, the forums crashed. I wonder if the same people who have been flooding the forums troll threads, stating the same thing over and over, with new accounts, or post histories that show the only thing they post is negative trolling comments, might be DDOSing the forums at this moment.
Because the forums where they talk about how to cheat in the game haven't been telling people to keep making threads claiming false-positives. Because this is an unheard-of event that never happens on a forum that anyone can post on, whether they play the game or not.
Yes, AA has a huge problem. People going out of their way to do nothing but make Trion and the game look bad.